Natalee Holloway Disappearance: Disturbing Sexual Encounter At Carlos And Charlies Also Reported That Night

In a troubling revelation about Aruban night club Carlos and Charlies on the night of Natalee Holloway's disappearance, a tourist confirmed to be present that eveing wrote up the following account. It has been lightly edited and some identifying information has been witheld.

A member of the group also snapped several images that night - one revealing Natalee Holloway dancing on the stage or bar of Carlos and Charlies. Those images were first reported on here.

...  practically noone was there, except for a group of women (and I have to say that one of the workers took advantage of one of the caucasion vacationer's who was intoxicated. (He told her) to lay down on the bar and then without telling her what he was doing he took ice and started rubbing it up and down her leg.

It was almost like he was using her to entertain everyone but honestly it made me sick and I got the feeling that everyone else around us felt uncomfortable about what he was doing to her. Then he went too far and started to lift up her shirt and another woman in the group came over and grabbed him and told him to stop.

She let go of him and then he continued to lift up her shirt and the woman had to push him away and yell at him. It was a really weird situation and did not give me a good feeling about the night, and I just thought that the whole bar was creepy like that.

After 11:00pm but before 12am this huge crowd of teenagers came into the bar, they basically took over the place.  At first we thought it was the cuckoo bus or something like that but then we figured it was just a huge crowd of kids vacationing together. 

The kids were hanging out all around us because they were utilizing the dance floor that our table was right next too and they also were all up on the stage/dance floor that was right in front of the table we were using.  We got to talking to some of the kids and they told us that they were seniors from Alabama who were here to celebrate their graduation. 

At one point of the night I heard (name deleted) say to (name deleted) right after she got back from the bathroom that there was this girl in the bathroom who was basically out of it and she was being helped by her friends. 

Then Tuesday (5/31/2005) (name deleted) was the one who told me that "a girl was missing from the night of carlos and charlies" and also that she saw the girl in the bathroom.  I then remembered what she had said that night when she came back from the bathroom about a girl. 

Then after the huge group of teengers showed up a little later I noticed there being all of a sudden a bunch of locals who came, and basically they were just hanging around the dance floor watching the people dance... 

On the way from carlos and charlies (name deleted) was stopped by a local and the man asked him if he wanted any crack, so there is also another time frame that can be used.  But we were the last ones to leave the bar that night, all of the Alabama teenagers were already gone ... they were putting up the tables and chairs...   

But the bar closed down at 1am and I do not recall seeing any caucasion girls outside, if anything there were a couple of local guys who maybe were the bouncers or something, and there was one local girl who was sitting with one of the guys, and then in between walking from carlos and charlies to the Mambo jambo ( i think that is what it was called) bar right across the street someone asked (name deleted) if he wanted any crack.

Update: It has been previously reported that the alleged girl in the bathroom was not Natalee Holloway. And the tourist could well have been wrong in making that assumption. At the same time, it appears that not all of the information flowing from Mountain Brook has been completely accurate as regards the trip. Consequently, it is hard to know which version to trust at this time.

This post is also available at Blogger News Network.

Comments

[TexasGal]

Am I reading this right? According to this person, someone positively identified the girl in the bathroom as Natalee, right?

[FloridaPatty]

Okay now we're starting to get somewhere. I have long since thought that the local young kids know the A to Z of what happened. Glad one of them is speaking out.

[sensible]

Hasn't another MB student come forward and said that wasn't Natalee in the bathroom (in bad shape and getting sick).

[CancunGirl]

Hasn't another MB student come forward and said that wasn't Natalee in the bathroom (in bad shape and getting sick).

Posted by: sensible | Aug 21, 2005 9:13:23 PM

I thought it was Dan who mentioned in a post that it was not Natalee getting sick in the bathroom??

[TexasGal]

I thought it was Dan who mentioned in a post that it was not Natalee getting sick in the bathroom??

Posted by: CancunGirl
Me too. That is why I am confused.

[Fla Girl]

Wow, the saga continues.......

Thanks Dan.

[chip]

that there was this girl in the bathroom who was basically out of it and she was being helped by her friends.

Then Tuesday (5/31/2005) (name deleted) was the one who told me that "a girl was missing from the night of carlos and charlies" and also that she saw the girl in the bathroom.

dan
so the girl who was out of it ws natalee?i had heard of someone in the bathroom who was ill but i thought it was confirmed it was not natalee

[anchor]

Dan,
You are on to something here.
I'm sure hoping that you can get more information and help bring Natalee home.
This information, along with the "behind the scene" information, will be what makes it all break.

[chip]

does out of it mean:
ill or intoxicated?

[Hoopsterfriend]

we say "out of it" to mean intoxicated.

[Hoopsterfriend]

but you'd think, if she were drunk enough to be the girl in the bathroom being helped by her friends, it would have been hard for them to lose track of her. i've been under the impression that she was probably as drunk as everyone else and thereby didn't stand out.

[dave]

From what I have heard from another MB kid, there was a girl who came forward and said she was the girl in the bathroom this person was talking about. It seems pretty obvious that this was not Natalee, since if her friends were helping her and she was in bad condition, then they wouldn't have let her go off with Joran.

[Bullgator]

The way I read this, it still could have been two different girls.

Only the witness knows for sure.

Dan, where did you find this "written up" version?

[chip]

we say "out of it" to mean intoxicated.

Posted by: Hoopsterfriend | Aug 21, 2005 9:

that's how i would read it too
if it could be described how she was out it & at what time>>>>..it would help
if someone is stoned on xtc(for example) they would act much differently than someone high on cocaine(for example)
if someone was given a date rape drug would they be affected like someone who had taken a sedative like drug-valium (for example)
or was it obvious that it was alcohol?

and again what time was this?were the students intoxicated upon arrival?

[RealPotential]

Interesting how it has also been "reported" that a friend of Natalee's came up to her outside as everyone was leaving CnCs, and asked "Are you okay?"

hmmm.

[misty]

Sorry, it may just be me, but I don't see anything NEW about this story. We KNEW that C&C was a sleezy place where the staff encouraged sexual acts and even participated in them. We knew 'someone' got sick in the bathroom. I still don't think that 'someone' was Natalee, think it was another student. I don't see anything unusual either about their behaviour at the bar. I've been to plenty in my life and it sounds like the kids were acting like any other kid experiencing 'adult' night life and freedom for the first time.

[Anna]

Well, I read this twice and cannot find the sexual encounter. Will somebody please point it out to me?

Eyewitnes/MB say it was not Natalee in the bathroom and the one who was ill has come forward and posted on another blog.

Is the ice the "sexual encounter"?

[misty]

Anna, yes the 'ice'. The bartender was trying to go up the poor girls skirt.

[Hoopsterfriend]

Anna, on what blog did the MB student post she was the one who was ill?

[Corporal]

Dan reveal the name. Establish it as fact from an eyewitness.

[carol]

I have a feeling that more than one person may have been "out of it" that night.
Dan, have you spoken to "name deleted?"

Then Tuesday (5/31/2005) (name deleted) was the one who told me that "a girl was missing from the night of carlos and charlies" and also that she saw the girl in the bathroom. I then remembered what she had said that night when she came back from the bathroom about a girl.

[Orionis]

Then Tuesday (5/31/2005) (name deleted) was the one who told me that "a girl was missing from the night of carlos and charlies" and also that she saw the girl in the bathroom. I then remembered what she had said that night when she came back from the bathroom about a girl.

That does not state that the missing girl was the sick girl in the bathroom...only that she saw the girl in the bathroom. Just maybe she saw Natalee trying to help the sick girl.

[Anna]

Hoopster, her mother did, not the girl. Scared Monkeys--was like this:

Justin T wrote:

From a Mountain Brook mother whose daughter was with Natalee the night that she disappeared. I have always believed that she did not go with the boys willingly.

NATALEE WAS NOT THE GIRL WHO WAS SICK IN THE BATHROOM AT C&C's! My daughter had already told me she was puzzled by that story 'cause she neither saw nor heard anything of the kind regarding Natalee. We were at the vigil yesterday and they were discussing that... It turned out to be other girls on the trip. Somebody had mentioned that at church and these girls went, "Oh no! That was US!" It was definitely not Natalee. You can understand the error. Have you noticed from the photos that 80% of the girls look just alike?
My daughter spoke with Natalee right after C&C's closed. My daughter & her friends came across Nat & Joran as all were exiting the club, and all were walking more or less together toward another group of classmates. Natalee was walking unassisted (not falling down drunk), spoke ok (though not answering in long sentences), and was not touching Joran. My daughter only noticed that Joran was tall, dark-haired, American-looking; he did not speak and she couldn't read his facial expressions. Nat turned down my daughter's invitation to go with her little group. (Ironically, they were about to circle the inside of another club to make sure no others were left behind.) Nat assured them that she was fine, and said she was going to go back to the hotel "with THEM," pointing to the MBHS group just a few yards ahead. The Kalpoes were nowhere in sight; neither was the car.
Next [my daughter] heard was that Natalee got into a car that many in the group had thought was a taxi. (Those look like regular cars.) It may be that the Kalpoes pulled up on the street before Natalee reached the next group; Joran may have deliberately stalled her. The group may not have even realized she was behind them, approaching. But while we hear that she got in the car willingly, we know from her comments that it was not her pre-planned intention. Because of this, I do not believe she knew she would be going anywhere but a fairly short distance down to the hotel. Her plans changed in the blink of an eye, and she was gone.

Thats Dash's mom!

Yes it is<<

[GrannyToad]

My concern is about the 3 paragraphs before the MB kids entered. That sets a scene I don't like - "creepy". What else happened there? What became of that woman?

And I'm certain I read that another MB teen has state that was her, not Natalee, sick or ?? in the bathroom. We don't have more info why she was sick/or, though, do we?

[Hoopsterfriend]

wow. i didn't know any of this. thanks.

[Cindi in PA]

Anna, Thanks, I remember reading that post early on. I have based my assumption that it was not Natalee in the bathroom on that alone. Who knows anymore

[Cindi in PA]

if someone is stoned on xtc(for example) they would act much differently than someone high on cocaine(for example)
if someone was given a date rape drug would they be affected like someone who had taken a sedative like drug-valium (for example)
or was it obvious that it was alcohol?

and again what time was this?were the students intoxicated upon arrival?

Posted by: chip | Aug 21, 2005 9:31:02 PM

XTC IS A garbage drug, made in house, not a pharmaceutical. For the most part, it will not make you "stoned," like a sedative would,just hightens your surroundings. Of course that depends on what it's mixed with. Many date rape drugs out there, and I still say something was used on Natalee, although I doubt it was XTC. Either that or her friends from MB are not telling the truth about how drunk she was that night.

[chip]

cindi in pa

thanks

my understanding is that xtc is a mild pschedelic
i took a prototype of it called mda back in 1969

i think it would be interesting to have "out of it " better defined

[lemon moon]

I have been on the side lines reading for weeks and after reading this I am in disbelief. I always knew that the Mountain Brook kids knew more than what they were saying.They know what happened that night. They were there. Girls tend to travel in groups so one of them had to know what was going on. Seems like they are being protected or maybe we don't know everything, maybe they are not being allowed to talk because it might hinder the investigation. I just can't figure it out but you would think that they would want to help clear things up.
I just hope that they are helping with this investigation.

[Cathy2]

"from the bathroom that there was this girl in the bathroom who was basically out of it and she was being helped by her friends."

It could have been Natalee, but I don't think so. If Natalee was so intoxicated that she was out of it and needed help by her friends, there was no way that she could have left the bar on her own without help from someone. The chaperones said that the students were approached by drug dealers.

"one of the workers took advantage of one of the caucasian vacationer's who was intoxicated. (He told her) to lay down on the bar and then without telling her what he was doing he took ice and started rubbing it up and down her leg."

I'm lead by the story to believe this incident occurred before the Mountain Brooks students arrived. But what I found interested...the vacationers describing an incident of a worker in Carlos and Charlies taking the advantage of an intoxicated female customer, and another female intervenes instead of management. This is a bar that Joran and the two brothers frequented quite often to mingle with the visiting vacationers from the US.

[lemon moon]

Cathy 2
I'm lead by the story to believe this incident occurred before the Mountain Brooks students arrived. But what I found interested...the vacationers describing an incident of a worker in Carlos and Charlies taking the advantage of an intoxicated female customer, and another female intervenes instead of management. This is a bar that Joran and the two brothers frequented quite often to mingle with the visiting vacationers from the US.

Yes you are right this is the bar that Joran and the Kalpoos frequent. That should tell you something about them.
Dan....Who was the girl that stepped in to help and WHO was the jerk rubbing the girls leg with the ice? And where were the MB adults that were along on the trip? One of the MB kids should have gone back to the hotel to get them.

[Annie]

In the picture that apparently shows Natalee on the bar, there is a man wearing a plaid shirt that resembles that one Joran was wearing that night. Could it possibly be him in the picture with Natalee?

[lemon moon]

I guess I will go over to 139 now and try to catch up on things. Maybe Dan has answered some of these questions....

[lemon moon]

Anne
I think I remember reading that it was not Joran but I am not sure.

[juninho]

Anna - Wow! - Thanks for the post. They almost have to go after the three main suspects with testimony like
this. I have trouble reading this and not believing that the Kalpoes were posing as cabbies per a pre- arranged
plan. Somebody tell me why I am wrong and this is not all over the MSM. What am I missing?

[lemon moon]

juninho
you are right, this should have come out long time ago. I think it is not all over MSM and the other news shows because of the MB kids...they are not talking...

[blacklable]

This is so typical: ..."it made me sick" ...but are you leaving, no, "but we were the last ones to leave.... well, it was not so bad after all

[lemon moon]

blacklable
who are you talking about...the writer of the letter?

[Outraged in Mt. Brook]

There is NOTHING new here about Natalee...we've known this info all along. My child was on the trip and at Carlos and Charlie's that night and the ONLY thing that's possibly new that's not been brought out before is the incident that took place before the MB kids arrived. The BARTENDER sounds like a first-class evil, sleazy person; take a closer look at him!!! I've already reported here that from the moment the kids landed on Aruba they were offered numerous drugs by ARUBANS!! Their pocessions (cameras, shoes, money, etc.)were stolen by ARUBANS!! They went to Carlos and Charlies to party and dance as you might expect. But I can tell you one thing...NONE of these kids had EVER witnessed anything in Mountain Brook or probably anywhere else as vulgar sounding as this bartender/ice story. Investigate the bartender lacing the girl's drinks and being in cahoots with the likes of Joran and others to take advantage of the girls. My child has pictures of the kids dancing and drinking, and yes, some were even drinking soft drinks. STOP TRYING TO BLAME THESE KIDS!!! Someone there on ARUBA killed or stole Natalee and THEY are to blame and you are wasting your time trying to prove otherwise!!!!

[lemon moon]

I do not know if it is typical but perhaps the person that was observing what was going on should have stepped in to help if it made her sick. That would have been the right thing to do.

[calista]

There is NOTHING new here about Natalee...we've known this info all along. My child was on the trip and at Carlos and Charlie's that night and the ONLY thing that's possibly new that's not been brought out before is the incident that took place before the MB kids arrived. The BARTENDER sounds like a first-class evil, sleazy person; take a closer look at him!!! I've already reported here that from the moment the kids landed on Aruba they were offered numerous drugs by ARUBANS!! Their pocessions (cameras, shoes, money, etc.)were stolen by ARUBANS!! They went to Carlos and Charlies to party and dance as you might expect. But I can tell you one thing...NONE of these kids had EVER witnessed anything in Mountain Brook or probably anywhere else as vulgar sounding as this bartender/ice story. Investigate the bartender lacing the girl's drinks and being in cahoots with the likes of Joran and others to take advantage of the girls. My child has pictures of the kids dancing and drinking, and yes, some were even drinking soft drinks. STOP TRYING TO BLAME THESE KIDS!!! Someone there on ARUBA killed or stole Natalee and THEY are to blame and you are wasting your time trying to prove otherwise!!!!

Posted by: Outraged in Mt. Brook | Aug 21, 2005 11:24:37 PM

why is it that parents of the kids on this trip who should be helping the investigation are on this site posting and chatting but yet the kids themselves are so hush hush supposedly because they aren't supposed to be talking???? should that not go for the parents too? the teens on that triop are not telling all they know period - each one gives a different story and they are all incredibly vague

[shonane]

Okay now we're starting to get somewhere. I have long since thought that the local young kids know the A to Z of what happened. Glad one of them is speaking out.

Posted by: FloridaPatty
===============================
One of them is not speaking out. This is another tourist's account.

[chandellesmom]

I agree that the bartender needs to be looked at closely.

[lemon moon]

Outragged
No one is trying to blame the MB kids but you must admit that this whole investigation has gone to hell. All areas need to be covered, to include the MB kids. I totally agree and you agree certainly correct in saying that the bartender is sleezy and needs to be questioned.
Don't get upset we all want to know what happened to Natalee..

[arbeej]

I am the MB mom quoted above. That post tells the entire story.
The girl in the bathroom was NOT Natalee. The girl who was sick was also from MB & was forthright in setting that straight.
Also, on a thread here from Aug. 4, someone said it was her friend Alana who was sick in the bathroom. No, no, no. Alana is the one who encountered Natalee & Joran outside the club, who asked Natalee, "Are you ok?"
Btw, don't read anything into that statement. It's one anyone would ask a friend after leaving a bar. "Are you ok?" as in, "You're ok to get home, right?" Or if you weren't on a non-driving vacation, you'd ask "Are you ok to drive?" whether your friend looked drunk or not.
In this case, Natalee looked fine, except that her eyelids were heavier than usual. Believing that Natalee was OK & was about to return with other students, Alana & her two friends went to check on others.
So, the sick girl was not Natalee; the sick girl was not Alana; and Natalee appeared to be in decent shape at the time Alana spoke to her.

We've been consistent in those statements all along.

[calista]

it is a known thing that bartenders help spike girls drinks with date rape drugs for them to be transported to brothels - there is numerous articles about it on the web..................but again this is just another "witnesses" account and could be totally false for all we know........

[lemon moon]

good point calista...

[leel]

let's just keep telling ourselves that these were responsible young people from good ( as in "good and rich") families and that they were all drinking responsibly as their proper Christian parents had instructed them....

let's stop beating around the bush here......aside from whatever happened to poor Natalee, these were fresh faced "Kids" that had no business being sent alone on an alcoholic binge, which is what it was, with the gambling, the sleeping around, and the ever present prostitution on the island....island.....at least, that's my humble opinion....

you know, if the parents had sent these kids to someones's house knowing that there would be drugs and alcohol and God only knows what else, the parents could be sent up on charges......maybe THAT was the point....to send these precious children away so their froliking ways would not be prosecuted ......

yes, I know...I am cynical.....cynical and disgusted by all of this....

[calista]

I am the MB mom quoted above. That post tells the entire story.
The girl in the bathroom was NOT Natalee. The girl who was sick was also from MB & was forthright in setting that straight.
Also, on a thread here from Aug. 4, someone said it was her friend Alana who was sick in the bathroom. No, no, no. Alana is the one who encountered Natalee & Joran outside the club, who asked Natalee, "Are you ok?"
Btw, don't read anything into that statement. It's one anyone would ask a friend after leaving a bar. "Are you ok?" as in, "You're ok to get home, right?" Or if you weren't on a non-driving vacation, you'd ask "Are you ok to drive?" whether your friend looked drunk or not.
In this case, Natalee looked fine, except that her eyelids were heavier than usual. Believing that Natalee was OK & was about to return with other students, Alana & her two friends went to check on others.
So, the sick girl was not Natalee; the sick girl was not Alana; and Natalee appeared to be in decent shape at the time Alana spoke to her.

We've been consistent in those statements all along.

Posted by: arbeej | Aug 21, 2005 11:30:48 PM

why are these things being posted here??? should younot be talking to the investigators or the fbi? not us and I still say why can't any of the mb reens tell a cohesive story about that night? nobody seems to know where natalee went who she was really with ro when she left - how do you just leave your firend without knwoing that?

[Outraged in Mt. Brook]

The kids were not told to not "tell" what they knew. In fact, they have ALL talked to the FBI. They were asked not to just randomly allow themselves to get "swamped" by the media, and therefore giving out "false" or "misunderstood" information. Believe me...the first week or so, media from around the world contact my child with outrageous requests. They had to do some media "control". And for CALISTA...I'm on this blog searching for any clues and trying to keep abreast of the latest happenings just like most of the others here. My child, and most of the others have now gone off to college, and when we talk, they always want to know the latest news from Aruba.