Just A Few Items

Waiting on some additional developments but did want to mention a couple of things.

I was able to confirm through another independent party that there was an individual who spent the night at Joran's apartments the night of Natalee Holloway's disappearance - and he has been questioned a number of times.

Also, you really do have to parse information coming out very carefully. It is very likely that there were only three serious story changes for the primary suspect, perhaps the second more troubling than the first.

It is possible that the first story change was from claiming that Natalee was dropped off at the hotel, to Joran Van der Sloot leaving her on the beach. It is also possible given the evidence of time records and such, that it will be determined that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe did lie for a friend by going along with the first story when it wasn't true - taking Joran at his word that Natalee would show up.

Where things get more complex would be the second story of how Joran arrived home. You would think that the first scenario might be understood as some boys covering for one another in what they thought was an innocent event. But a further lie, or confusion as to the journey home seems to me to be a bit harder for Van der Sloot to explain. If nothing else, we can assert that he is capable of repeatedly lying to authorities while a young girl he was seen with last is missing. That's difficult to rationalize as anything but guilt.

However, the statement that Jossy Mansur brought forward is clearly a sham and more an interrogation technique than a confession of any kind. Yes, the interrogators wrote up a narrative in which Van der Sloot appeared to have blamed everything on Deepak.

But a lack of his signature and only the signatures of the interrogators suggests this was more ploy than plea. It also proved ineffective when show to Deepak Kalpoe - which suggests he may really not know anything. If he had, and Joran was the primary perpetrator - it's hard to imagine he wouldn't have given him up right there ... or even now for a reward. That didn't happen, so far as we can be ascertained. If phone records show the Kalpoes at home by 2:30 or so without going back out - it is hard to see how they were involved.

Another note - I have seen a document purportedly from NBC for circulation which states that Beth Twitty took the video tape when confronting Deepak at the Internet Cafe and later provided it to NBC. I have not written NBC's public relations area to ascertain the validity of this statement. I'd encourage someone to do that if they are interested in that specific bit of information.

Certainly, if the new witness who now claims to have been raped and possibly drugged by Joran holds up, obviously that would begin an entire new investigation and likely a new arrest, even if there was a ruling to release him in the matter of Natalee Holloway's disappearance. But personally I'm going to wait and see if this witness has a little more credibility than some of the others Jossy Mansur has produced to date. And his claim of there being two unidentified and unidentifiable other girls potential charges against Joran Va der Sloot - girls who can not come forward and he cannot name ... amounts to little more than character assassination until they are produced, or disclosed.

Fox, MSNBC, or whomever is not really doing much for the tradition of good journalism by continuing with some of that charade. Also undisclosed, but apparently true in part - is that the Dutch Government did name two Mansur's as linked to gun and drug smugglers, as well as money laundering activities in a leaked, Top-Secret report - for which Mansur filed a Human Rights complaint.

2.2 Under a Royal Decree of 22 October 1994 the Interim Head of Aruban Security Service, A. Koerten, was instructed to carry out an investigation into the security and integrity of Aruba. A report on this investigation was produced on 20 April 1995, entitled Security and Integrity of Aruba: Context and Perspective.

2.3 The report was issued as top secret and was sent to a limited number of state officials and institutions, named in the report.

2.4 The report draws a picture of security in Aruba and mentions that foreign services fighting crime in the region are (sic)Aalmost unanimous in their opinion that the predominant image of the Aruban business community is one of joint services towards (laundering specialists of) regional drug cartels. The report mentions the authors by name and portrays them as criminals who were associated with criminal organizations involved in drugs trafficking, gun trafficking and laundering money obtained from criminal activities.

2.5 Despite the fact that the report was classified as top secret it was leaked to the press and its contents became public. It is not clear who leaked the report. An investigation of the leak was carried out by the Dutch Internal Security Service in which it was supposedly found that the leaked photocopy was not made from a copy in the hands of the Minister of Dutch-Antillean and Aruban Affairs or another Dutch official. The investigation report did not state of which copy the photocopy was made.

Lastly, it is believed that Paulus Van der Sloot participated on a panel which agreed to extradite two relatives of the Mansurs to the US under serious charges some years back. One cannot be fair and balanced without at least mentioning that your primary source of information in this case may well have an agenda against, not only the Dutch in a political sense, but also Paulus Van der Sloot directly.

Nothing in this case seems simple, or beyond a shadow of a doubt - excepting clear statements from everyone that the first few days, always so important to this type of investigation, were significantly flawed, at best.

Comments

[sensible]

Dan,
Re the video at the Internet Cafe. According to BHT, while she was at the Internet Cafe, the MSNBC person (not sure if it was Michelle) called and said, "We know where you are and we're coming over." So according to Beth MSNBC came over and did that video.

So now you are reporting that BHT had someone videotape and then provided it to NBC.

Big difference in the stories.

Thanks for all you do to keep us up to date.

[calista]

interesting things.......I read an interview from beths own mouth that she said the media tipped her that deepak was working and she went there and carefull planned what she would do....the camera was already with her.......but then she gave another account that said she just "happened" to be out and came upon the cafe and only went in because there was no poster of natalee in the window......so we are to assume I guess she just happened to have a camera crew with her then? same scenario as when she went to paul vds home with greta and camera crew - first she said it was a "accident" to find him while out handing out prayer cards but then later said she knew she had to go over there....oh well whatever the truth I guess the concensus is she needs the camera for her own protectiona nd to keep natalee out there *shrug*

also read the mansur report some time ago...i agree Dan that any witness he produces is not credible in my eyes

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Dan

This,
"the Dutch Government did name two Mansur's as linked to gun and drug smugglers, as well as money laundering activities in a leaked, Top-Secret report - for which Mansur filed a Human Rights complaint,"

was discussed in one of the early discussion forums on your site(~6-8 wks back??).

----------
"Nothing in this case seems simple, or beyond a shadow of a doubt"

I think this is precisely why this case has and continues to become prominent -- every few days there is an increasingly wider circle of interest and intrigue, and more farther reaching unanswered, and compelling, questions. It is not a fault of anyone for the extensive coverage, but a natural outflow of opening a Pandora's Box....

[mom]

dan,
this is amazing...you worked very hard to get this together, you must have had to do copious amounts of research and you had to go through countless hours of conversation and reporting....thank you from everyone who reads your posts.

[vincent]

I don't care if Jossy can't stand the way Paulus chews his food, or has an agenda to beat all agendas. Jossy Mansur consistently helped the Holloway/Twitty families, and he's the only one.

The first newspeople on the scene feigned sympathy for the family's plight, but we all know Renfro et al just wanted their mugs on television and a scoop. It was as tho they got bored with the story and remembered Aruba's their kind of town with all the drugs, vulnerable touri$t$ and Happy Island free-for-all festivities to write about.

Jossy Mansur has kept his word with the Holloway/Twitty's and that's all that matters. Jossy's a hero in my book.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Vincent,

You know, it certainly does make sense what you say. At this point it doesn't even matter to me that Mr. Mansur may be fully described in that report. What matters now is that he is helping a family in need of some serious, high powered help. Even if it turns out to be criminal against criminal -- criminals can be redeemed!

If they act like they are redeemed by finding and exposing other criminals then the just cause is served. And maybe the criminal will find the light that puts out his own darkness in the process.

God has always been able to use the good and the bad to execute His justice. A righteous act is a righteous act no matter who does it, or what the motive. Though it may not redeem the actor, it may bring justice to the victim. And here, I, like you, seek righteous justice.... May God bless the hand that brings it to bear on those who hide behind wobbling walls of deceit!

[clintcarter]

The Devil Paulus, having first been found guilty of environmental activism, is now seen to show cowardly resistence to the spread of organized crime on Aruba!

[clintcarter]

I love my daughter and don't want to imagine what Beth hhas been through losing hers;
but after so much exposure the Stephen Kingish room in my head can see her on a moss-draped sauna of an island; never sleeping and turning out to be 500 yrs. old and losing a daughter every 30 years.

[clintcarter]

Dave Holloway survived her bite but cannot remember what happened. Jug has been assimilated; her wish is his command.

[Reptoid]

Clint

Unplug the coffee pot and back away from the computer.

[mona]

don't care if Jossy can't stand the way Paulus chews his food, or has an agenda to beat all agendas. Jossy Mansur consistently helped the Holloway/Twitty families, and he's the only one.

The first newspeople on the scene feigned sympathy for the family's plight, but we all know Renfro et al just wanted their mugs on television and a scoop. It was as tho they got bored with the story and remembered Aruba's their kind of town with all the drugs, vulnerable touri$t$ and Happy Island free-for-all festivities to write about.

Jossy Mansur has kept his word with the Holloway/Twitty's and that's all that matters. Jossy's a hero in my book.

Posted by: vincent | Aug 26, 2005 2:25:51 AM

So the mansurs were laundring money.....seems like a little thing compared the OTHER crimes being commited....wonder how good the drug security is at the airport and how much of that cocaine is finding it way to the usa

[John]

Mona,

They don't even have dogs roaming the airport looking for drugs in suitcases. I am sure a lot gets smuggled out all the time. If they do have dogs I have never seen them in my trips to Aruba and through its airport.

So the mansurs were laundring money.....seems like a little thing compared the OTHER crimes being commited....wonder how good the drug security is at the airport and how much of that cocaine is finding it way to the usa

Posted by: mona | Aug 26, 2005 7:13:06 AM

[kathy]

As usual there are those in Aruba that have leaked the problems of the Mansur family. This story is about Natalee... she is still missing! She was last seen "alive" with Joran and the 2 brothers... they also admitted Natalee left with the three of them!
The Aruban authorities were suppose to move Joran out of the juvinile section to the adult section of the prison when he turned 18! Now the MSNBC fiasco shows that Joran is still in the juvinile area. Special treatment?

[FloridaPatty]

,
"the Dutch Government did name two Mansur's as linked to gun and drug smugglers, as well as money laundering activities in a leaked, Top-Secret report - for which Mansur filed a Human Rights complaint,"

was discussed in one of the early discussion forums on your site(~6-8 wks back??).

To answer your question, yes. I read about this before from an Aruban who posted it in one of our discussions. Added to their theory of a vendetta was that Jossy is running for office.....is this true? and wanting is opponent to look incompetent. Not sure if any of that is true since I don't live in Aruba.

My only additional thoughts would be that Jossy didn't go out and setup Joran to do what he did and frame him. The boy brought this on by his own choices.

and that FILE video of Joran cuffed and going to a car where he walks around the front of the car and hits it with his hands is telling don't you think? he ends up trying to open the car door and then closing it when the officer says something. He looks at the camera, realizes he is being filmed and the look in his eyes...not a sun squinting look but I can just feel the hate oozing out. Check it out as it's on every news outlet over and over and over.

[MF]

Mona,

They don't even have dogs roaming the airport looking for drugs in suitcases. I am sure a lot gets smuggled out all the time. If they do have dogs I have never seen them in my trips to Aruba and through its airport.

Posted by: mona | Aug 26, 2005 7:13:06 AM

Posted by: John | Aug 26, 2005 8:06:34 AM

The dogs controlling all bags and luggage are doing this on the first floor after you have you passed the Home Land Security control. This is after it was checked first by local Immigration officers and the luggage returned to you. Remember?

If some are getting smuggled anyway, should not even come close to the amount smuggled every day to the US through ships and droppings.

[MF]

**To answer your question, yes. I read about this before from an Aruban who posted it in one of our discussions. Added to their theory of a vendetta was that Jossy is running for office.....is this true? and wanting is opponent to look incompetent. Not sure if any of that is true since I don't live in Aruba.**

No, Jossy is not running for office. He does however publicly support one of the 3 political parties in opposition, since the current one was the responsible for investigations against him, his businesses and his family, resulting in extradition to the states of 3 people, 2 of them his family.

His attacks on the current administration has been going on for years and lately more so, because of he being declined the opportunity to buy a prime area land in front of the hotels.

He is also forbidden to enter the U.S. according to some sources.

[jayjay]

Hold on a second,

Jossy did NOT produce the rape accusers!! He may have reported that there are 2 additional potential accusers, but he did not PRODUCE anything!

Is he a little "off center"? Probably!

However, the current alleged rape victim has gone to the authorities after first retaining council...How does that have anything to do with Jossy Mansur??

[Justice4All]

Is some one implying that Jossy maybe assisting the Holloways as a way to divert the truth?

[JailLess1]

(((Dan,))) I know the police will pit one against the other when there's co-defendants(& it works more often then not) so you're right in believing the Kalpoes would have probably turned over by now, but I didn't know they go as far as lying to the media till I seen all the lies they told the media during the Jon Benet case the other night on the latest 'court TV' investigation report! They ruined that whole family's life & financial situation & it was so sad. But what I don't get is why Nancy Grace, of all people, is making a big deal about Joran not being interrogated for days? Being a ex prosecutor she should know better Can't help but wonder what her true agenda is now? Hopefully one of those kids in J's cell is a plant as it would be in the States. They operate the same way behind the walls as they do in the streets. When the cops lie too low & for some reason it seems mighty quiet, 'look out', their up to something & more then likely about to raid. No doubt Joran's dad may have already warned him that if the authorities suddenly back off after using alot of pressure, don't make the mistake of thinking their trying to be considerate, just watch who you talk too & what you say. So anyway Dan, what I'm gathering from the above is that you feel Deepak may 'possibly' be clueless assuming he may have been told Nat would show back up? Don't you think he would have said that when he got caught in his lie & admitted to his mom why he lied? Hell, Joran said it! He may have been clueless when it first took place but I believe during those days the authorities didn't arrest them, Joran would have put him up on everything being Deepak didn't say he thought Nat would be popping back up but instead 'only' admitted he lied...that's if this is the true scenario & Joran is solely responsible for her death. Also if the police didn't produce a signature verifying that Joran was placing blame on Deepak (which could be why Deepak hasn't flipped on him yet, then do you know why Deepak is mad at Joran? Didn't his attorney also state Deepak & Joran is not speaking. Here's a link to the long interview w/ Deepak & e FBI profiler being I haven't seen you mention it yet. Matter of fact I just sent it to you in case you don't see this post! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9041552/

[DennisAOK]

An Aruban reporter leaked information a few weeks ago that the police know from cell phone records that none of the boys returned home until 4am, and that Deepak then left again.

[curiositykillsme]

That has to be one of the finest pieces you have written yet Dan. These issues have not been dug into as they should be. Sure we all think Jossy is a square peg in this thing, but no one yet has seriously questioned his motives. Remember this is a small place and these folks all run in the same circles. I wonder what Paul Van der Sloot would have to say of Jossy and his clan?

[newbee]

does anyone know if Beth left aruba and went to the silent auction yesterday?? I didn't hear any reports about that. And was Courtney Cox at the silent auction...or did she just organize it? Thank You

[jgirl]

I feel badly for Natalee and her family, and wish we could get some good news. The mud slinging going on in Aruba is disturbing. If a crime was committed or an accidental death that is bad enough, but it is not like these boys are serial killer rapists. While it certainly appears Natalee was a victim (based primarily on what type of girl she was), not all girls are.
Many young girls have sex with boys, and when the boy does not call them back, they become angry, claim rape, attack, this is very common in the states. This is an isolated case, we have no way of knowing that these so
called victims really were, and why wait. And I heard the girl was at his
apartment. Well, it is still true, why would a woman go to a man's apartment/bedroom expecting anything else.

[MF]

Latest news: THIS MORNING THE KALPOE BROTHER HAVE BEEN RE-ARRESTED.

[Janice]

MF, is the report reliable-where did it come from? Thanks!

[jgirl]

Brother or brothers Kalpoe?

[MF]

Was announced on Radio on a breaking news that the lawyers of the Kalpoe Brothers confirmed to the reporter that his clients were re-arrested this morning.

Same station that has Tito Lacle as one of his free-lance reporters.

[Cindi in PA]

Latest news: THIS MORNING THE KALPOE BROTHER HAVE BEEN RE-ARRESTED.

Posted by: MF | Aug 26, 2005 9:47:18 AM

Where did you hear that?

[jayjay]

MF,

Are you referring to a local Aruban station, because all the major US news outlets have nothing...

[MF]

Another breaking news. NEXT TO THE KALPOE BROTHERS, ANOTHER PERSON ONLY IDENTIFIED AS 'FREDDY' HAS ALSO BEEN ARRESTED FOR INTERROGATION.

www.magic965.com

[jayjay]

MF and All,

It is on ABCnews.com as a banner, but no text yet!

http://abcnews.go.com/

[JailLess1]

Fox also had a new breaking report of them being re-arrested! IT's about dang time!

[FloridaPatty]

Aug. 26, 2005 — Two brothers previously detained in the disappearance of missing student Natalee Holloway and one other man have been arrested in the case, ABC News has learned.

There it is!

[FloridaPatty]

It's about dang time.

Beth is probably so relieved. Patience is a virtue.

[George T.]

Dan,
re:One cannot be fair and balanced without at least mentioning that your primary source of information in this case may well have an agenda against, not only the Dutch in a political sense, but also Paulus Van der Sloot directly.

Wow!!!

[George T.]

Anita, Read this.

RE:girls who can not come forward and he cannot name ... amounts to little more than character assassination until they are produced, or disclosed.

[George T.]

RE: According to BHT, while she was at the Internet Cafe, the MSNBC person (not sure if it was Michelle) called and said, "We know where you are and we're coming over." So according to Beth MSNBC came over and did that video.

Beth can not tell things correctly as she has her own agenda. She fabricates to reach her own goal of damning Joran, who may not be guilty of murder. She is not dealing with facts. Only her gut reactions. Remember, Dave divorced her.

[George T.]

RE: but then she gave another account that said she just "happened" to be out and came upon the cafe and only went in because there was no poster of natalee in the window......so we are to assume I guess she just happened to have a camera crew with her then? same scenario as when she went to paul vds home with greta and camera crew - first she said it was a "accident" to find him while out handing out prayer cards but then later said she knew she had to go over there

Beth may not be well. She may not even know herself that she can not tell the truth.
Please, if that is the case, give her some sympathy. I have not been as I have been responding to her directed anger and wish to hang Joran with no evidence. I now am seeing her in a different way.
Maybe it is an illness. Maybe one she had before this incident.

Maybe that is a Big part of this whole case. Now where are the people who love her? She is their responsibility.

[George T.]

New theory,
Maybe Josey Paid Beth and Natalee to stage this whole dead to get even with Paulus.

And Natalee is alive, only to show up After Joran goes to prison.

Hell hath no furry like Josey's rath?????

[George T.]

RE:
Jossy Mansur consistently helped the Holloway/Twitty families, and he's the only one.

Now from my last post, who do you think this is??

[George T.]

who should be why

[George T.]

Ake,
RE:A righteous act is a righteous act no matter who does it, or what the motive.

it may bring justice to the victim. And here, I, like you, seek righteous justice....

You can see with a clear eye. I will be happy to meet you one day.
Amen.

Remember: Though it may not redeem the actor,

[curiositykillsme]

WTF George T?

[melja]

What's up with George T, feeling like ranting today?
Sounds like you're the one with the agenda, or do you have a son sitting in jail in aruba?

Fess up.

Mj

[Lurker]

interesting things.......I read an interview from beths own mouth that she said the media tipped her that deepak was working and she went there and carefull planned what she would do....the camera was already with her.......but then she gave another account that said she just "happened" to be out and came upon the cafe and only went in because there was no poster of natalee in the window......so we are to assume I guess she just happened to have a camera crew with her then? .....~snip~

Posted by: calista | Aug 26, 2005 1:56:04 AM

''''''''''''''''''''''
FWIW:
August 9, 2005 10:00 p.m. EST
Douglas Maher - All Headline News Staff Reporter
Aruba (AHN) - The mother of missing teenager Natalee Holloway, Beth Holloway-Twitty, confronts released suspect, Deepak Kalpoe, about the disapearance of her daughter at his place of employment. Mrs. Holloway-Twitty tracked down Kalpoe at a local Internet cafe where he currently is employed and had a face to face confrontation about the night her daughter went missing.

[Lurker]

FWIW #2

Man released in Aruba disappearance says missing teen's mother harassed him at 20:00 on August 9, 2005, EST.
ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP)
~snip~ Neither Kalpoe nor Holloway Twitty knew they were being filmed during the exchange though the teen's mother later gave her consent to broadcast the footage, Cohen said.

[punkingale]

Vincent, I agree with you. Whatever Jossy has done in the past, I don't give a rat's. He helped the Holloway/Twitty families when it seemed like no one else would. Beth has stated that he's her hero. He hired Art Wood, for what it's worth. He also paid for bulldozers to dig in the landfill. God only knows what else. Weeks ago he was asked on TV why he was doing so much for the families. He said he attended high school in Mississippi and college in Mobile, Alabama and he had a certain affinity for the people there because they were so nice to him. Now, if he could get Paulus van der Sloot re-arrested, I'd be thrilled. He knows plenty, like he told Beth & Jug initially he picked "them" up at 4:00 AM. I hope he's next.

[P in SE Asia]

Dan Thnks,

I can see taht a lot of work went into this piece, somewhat more than usual.

Very Apreciated.

Joran will be exonerated with time... im sure even u can feel that too.

[bryan]

http://www.aruba.com/pages/judicialsystem.htm

This link goes to a brief description of Aruban court system and law.

This is what will be dealt with there no matter who tries to push them to be US.

[vincent]

now, I'd be very interested to see either Kalpoe brother open their own car door with polis standing by, or the door to the court house as we always see Joran do. WTF? Since when do handcuffed prisoners OPEN THEIR OWN DOOR?