Judge Wants Sworn Testimony In Hollloway Disappearance

Sworn testimony from a witness who claims to have seen Joran Van der Sloot near a pond on the night of Natalee Holloway's disappearance could serve as evidence in holding Vander Sloot beyond the current September 4 release date.

A judge in Aruba is seeking sworn testimony from someone who claims he saw a suspect in the disappearance of an American teenager the night the girl vanished.

The lead investigator tells The Associated Press the man says he saw the suspect (Joran van der Sloot) with two friends near a hotel pond late that night.

The suspect has told authorities he was already at home by that time.

Comments

[Treehugger]

Actually, "God" didn't, "Man" did the appointing.
There hasn't been any statement released by the Aruban courts that they are holding him because of their "belief that he is likely guilty of kidnapping and/or murder". They have said that he is being held while they conduct the investigation, and since June 10th, when that investigation into Joran's involvement began, there has been no infomation from the courts or the prosecution office. That would be a leak, and Joran would already be a free man.
What you appear to be believing is a bunch of hype and lies told by people who have an agenda, which does not include finding Natalee Holloway.
Or did you also believe the guy with the pond story ?
Do you believe the guy with the dump story ?
Why are so many people willing to continue letting the press lie to them ? Especially people with reputations like Geraldo, Nancy Grace, Greta and Jossy Mansur ?!!!
Any one still believing in the BS spun by these people have got no common sense, and are suffering from short term memory loss.
Or you're part of the SCAM itself.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

I believe you are mistaken.

I must also say that the ONLY thing we really know about Natalee on the night of her disappearance that REALLY matters in determining what happened to her is that she was last seen with the three guys in the car. They have continuously admitted that and have not only never denied it, but to the contrary, they have given a great number of variations on that FACT. The consistency in their stories is that she was ALIVE and talking and for the most part "ok" at that point.

The inconsistencies begin after THAT FACT. This has NOT been disputed by ANYONE and all those who question THAT are absolutely, willfully ignorant at best, and outright instigators of foolish argument and nonsensical controversy, or even DIABOLICAL agents at worst!

The FACT that she is now missing and there is no evidence that she left of her own free will is enough under ARUBAN law to charge them with kidnapping. There is no knowledge or consistent evidence as to EXACTLY what they did with her at that point. But inconsistent stories can be ruled out according to established jurisprudence. None of the stories can be believed: lighthouse, beach, sick, etc.!

If either of the latest two witnesses of her DEAD body are determined to be credible, then we know where they put her and in what condition. That's enough to convict them of the crimes.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Thanks for the conversation.

I must leave now. May God grant you his peace.

[FloridaPatty]

Thanks for the long updates and thoughts everyone here. I was at the hospital with my husband who had surgery yesterday. I caught Nancy Grace at 8:30 EST.

Akekoaho- I wish I shared your faith in the Aruban Judges. But Paulus is one of those Judges (in training but still he serves when they are absent).

*** If anyone has not see Ian's video of Greta interviewing Beth Twitty go view on BlogsforNatalee. Dan provided a link at the top of the page. Beth is right on it.
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I have long since thought that Joran does this pickup routine with the pretty young tourists girls. That the "let's go see the lighthouse before you leave" is another line used. The 150 alcohol, another. The two guys with him with the car, another.
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Once upon a time, a long time ago, I worked in a club. I saw the Jorans, smooth, using their same pickup lines weekend after weekend.
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Nursemind~ and they are also in the business of selling news. They also sell truths. So many reporters with the information and in the end, the reader makes up their own mind.

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Dan~ Very nice interview regarding your blog. I had a chance to read it Thursday. I didn't realize you could be THAT articulate (and intelligent). Nice read.
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Treehugger- there are many threads in this quilt. While one has proven to be helpful, others are tyring to misguide. While some Arubans are beautiful people and genuinely care and pray for Natalee's return, others know certain details and refuse to tell. **The do not know that seeking out an FBI agent and telling them what they know and telling them they fear for their life and their family or for repurcussions (like getting fired or deported) that in America anonymous means just that.
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Andy--- YES! Where is Van Der Straten. I asked that same question myself.

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I only have two words left to say:

******Noreen Renier******

the FBI know of her very well. She's been to Quantico many times.

This case is slowing down too close to 30 days. She is a viable resource for law enforecement who cannot come to a resolution on a particular case.

[mona]

So why does everyone conclude that a person who is fun is a murderer? Because they do not know what to do with their thoughts of the unknown. It is easier to believe a falsely accused person had committed a murder than to try to consider what else could have happened to Natalee.
This discussion is about Natalee. Where are the alternative possibilities of what could have happened to her?
Try to think of five alternatives. I challenge each of you...

Posted by: GeorgeT
Here's one person's idea of fun and another persons idea of attempted murderhttp://www.riehlworldview.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/joran.jpg

[Skyboxx]

The focus needs to remain on Joran and at least one Kalpoe brother. I will throw Paulus in the mix as well, as no caring father with nothing to hide says "no body, no case" These three have some idea of what happened. Paulus, I believe is more sinister as he knows the law and did not casually throw out "no body no case" as normal dad's advice. Does anyone out there recall their dad saying, "Son use a condom and if things go bad, remember, No body no case" Paulus had his police cheif friend and other scum go back to the beach dispose of the body and they are waiting this out. Remember they we all happy to let this hang on the security guards and go about their merry lives. Anita VDS now needs to come forward as a mother and decent person and tell the world what she now knows about her husband and son. It is NO coincidence that she has been absent from public view and no comments from her. She now knows. Anita, for the love of mankind, please come forward. Trade Paulus for Joran, but give the Twittys some closure. You know the truth.

[donnaanna]

What you appear to be believing is a bunch of hype and lies told by people who have an agenda, which does not include finding Natalee Holloway.
Or did you also believe the guy with the pond story ?
Do you believe the guy with the dump story ?
Why are so many people willing to continue letting the press lie to them ? Especially people with reputations like Geraldo, Nancy Grace, Greta and Jossy Mansur ?!!!
Any one still believing in the BS spun by these people have got no common sense, and are suffering from short term memory loss.
Or you're part of the SCAM itself.

Posted by: Treehugger | August 6, 2005 03:41 AM

My thoughts EXACTLY!!! I also agree with Mona... People are being fed bs and are eating it up with a spoon because it is so much easier than trying to think for themselves. Even if some of the rumours are true, none of them, so far, make Joran a murderer!!!!

[nursemind]

Treehugger and donnaanna.......My thoughts exactly too!! I'm tired of hearing about Joran's "inconsistencies" in his stories and how peoplpe are using that as proof that he is guilty. We don't even know what those inconsistencies are. They may be very minor things.........remember he had been drinking that night so his memory may be foggy. Plus guys tend to remember less about relationship details. Now girls can tell you word for word what was said and every detail about time spent with a guy. It comes from years of practice retelling to all our girlfriends!!

[Skyboxx]

Nurse, Donna, Tree,

Its good to see the Manson girls have found a new cause.....Give us all break. The kid is not being held just because....Stop

[birmingham dog]

Quote---"Oh, what a Hot time we are havin' in TROLL TOWN tonight!!! Wonder why certain posters are only here on certain nights of the week? By the way, bdog,et al-how's the weather in Aruba tonight? You all need to get a life!!!

Posted by: NC greenbean """---end quote........

News Flash, I live in Birmingham Alabama, and at one time lived 1 mile from where Natalee lives in Mtn Brook Alabama.
Some of you people that lable me as an "Agent of Aruba" are simply Laughable. But after a little thought maybe you are not laughable but are Sick mentally. These people can not for 1 moment think that anyone else in this great world can think differently than they can. And if these "other" people do think differently then they are Agents for sinister motives. hahahahaha.....I would be willing to bet that these usual people on here that make it their JOB to castigate logical debate, are themselves Trolls. A troll in my book is someone that deliberatly starts trouble so that others will be sucked in and create a feeding frenzy. These people are apart of a clique that emails each other and seems to want to group together, for they fear independant thinking. They can't think for temselves and when others show a varying logic that doesn't match their world view then they have fear that their own LITTLE world will collapse. I honestly think these people Dont want Natalee to be found, for they would loose their "fixation" on this case.
Oh what sad people they must be, when no one can speak of personal responsibility, they want to twist the facts around to cover their theories. personal responsibiblity goes both ways, yes their are boys too that Need to learn from this but, people this happened to a girl, and we are discussing this case. Get off your high horse and THINK for yourself, and not follow the Pack mentality. Or can you not get off your belief that the Government is here to TAKE CARE of you ? No people we are the ones that have to take care of ourselves, no goverment nor anyone else in this world can and should take care of YOU. I am seeing a trend to these so-called clique people on here, I would be willing to bet that these lynch mob-ers are liberals, that think conservative thought and personal resposnsibility are not important in this ovedr-indulgent world.

GWD-from Birmingham, not Aruba..LOL..hahahahaha..

[Treehugger]

Skyboxx-
It's "good" to know that with gullible suckers such as yourself, the National Enquirer and Geraldo will always be in business.

[FloridaPatty]

Skyboxx- (Manson) made me laugh.

...............................................

Treehugger- I want to know what HAPPENED to the guy with the pond story. Wasn't he deported???
What's up with that?

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Mona- I don't think everyone who has a good time and parties is a bad person. It doesn't make them a killer by any means. What makes me (and I'm guessing so many others) suspicous of Joran and the brothers is the LAYERS of things that lead to more suspicion. Also the attitude of Joran. I remember seeing Beth Twitty describing Joran's reaction to her and yelling at her "what do you want me to do?"...not that that alone makes him a bad person it's that when you hear the classmates from his school say he bragged about having sex with Natalee the night before and she is MISSING it's like he is more concerned with getting the word out that he is a stud than caring about someone he had just seen the night before and now she is missing. It isn't a normal human reaction. Think about it,
if any one of us were to go on a dinner cruise and sat next to a couple that we chatted with, drank with and otherwise had a great night of partying with then learned the next morning they were missing your first human reaction is OMG! What happened? Where were they? When were they last seen? It's a natural reaction. This guy has not had a natural human reaction from the get go.

Joran Van Der Sloot is not, nor will he be the last, boy on this planet who grew up with a sense of priveledge, where his daddy fixed the problems that he got into, where his last name got him special services that others did not get and where when a big accident occurs, there are many there to cover things up.

Americans, think "Chappaquiddick" and Kennedy.

Think Martha Moxley.

[shonane]

According to Charles Croes, the cellphone guy, who first met the Twitty's, and "found" Joran Van Der Sloot, Joran had a "desire to help".

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161233,00.html

ANYONE in their right mind would have shut up after the shameful, slanderous display the Twitty's then began. Every word the Van Der Sloot's have said has been twisted and advertised by Fox and the Twitty's as "chilling" or "dramatic" or "incriminating".
Why would his father or any lawyer tell him to shut up ?

The ridiculousness of even WONDERING why you would be quiet when Fox, CNN, and all the rest are camped on your front lawn, while henchmen are at your kid's school harrassing students with signs and taunts, while Tim "I'm sure this time" Miller and Geraldo's brother yell things through the gate in your yard with cameras, machinery, and all the rest. OH ! and there goes Greta chasing a car down the street...sorta like Jossy chasing the white van "sure" she was in there ! And Beth on Geraldo's boat pleading poor accepting donations, while her ex-husband digs hopelessly at the dump...FOR SHAME !

There is MUCH more to this story than meets the eye...and it doesn't have anything to do with a horny 17 year old kid, who has sat in jail for two months, and not "cracked".

Predatory...pffffpt ! If buying girls shots in bars is predatory then 90% of the male population in America are a bunch of stalkers.

Two "witnesses" have come forward, since the reward was upped, and one was so unreliable that he skipped town, after a drainage pond was emptied. A landfill is being torn apart based on the "eyewitness account" of someone even GRETA says she doesn't believe. (broad daylight-the day the world and that dump were put on alert-highly unlikely) Voice recordings, methane readers, crazy old men who dig up and kill sea turtle eggs...ENOUGH !

Why does a speech therapist continuously say "um...you know...well..." why would she contstantly mispronounce Joran's name. "Urine" ? Are you 8, Beth ? Nannie Nannie Boo Boo.
Get a clue, people ! You are being had by a gossip columnist and a bunch of very questionable "businessmen".

Posted by: Treehugger | August 6, 2005 01:56 AM

===================================
On day one when the Twitty's arrived in Aruba and they discovered that Joran and the Capote brothers were the people that left C&Cs with Natalie, they proposed a theory that Joran and/or the Kapote brothers did something to her, caused her to disappear, or at minimum know what happen. They further claim that PBS knows what happened and may be involved with her disappearance. Thus, they decided what happened on day one without even knowing much about the situation.

This theory continues to be promoted today and is presented as fact daily by them in the press. There are posters who claim this to be fact also, and various elaborations of rape, murder and body disposal by one or all 4 suspects in this case have been presented as theory and even fact by may bloggers.

Fact is, there is no evidence to support these theories that we know of.

Beth said she confronted Joran on that first night when the 10 folks went to the PVS home and Beth said she told Joran "Give Me Back My Daughter." She said Joran responded by hitting his chest and saying "What Do You Want Me To Do? " She label this action to hit his chest and make this statement to be arrogant and rude. Yet, I would not be able to conclude that since maybe he was just frustrated, was under attack, defensive, and really didn't know what she expected him to do. This situation, as well as almost anything (like PVS sweating too much - must mean he knows something or is guilty of something ???) that can be jumped on is made out and interpreted by the Twittys in the most negative possible light, even though the truth of those situations may be very different from the other person's perspective. PVS, JVS and AVS have been horribly slandered, if not their lives almost destroyed, by the Twitty's and the media and it is possible that it is not deserved.

At that point - on the very first night the Twitty's arrived - it was obvious a mob mindset was underway and Joran was going to be a target of suspicion for Natalie's disappearance. Even though I had the impression that this family was sincerely concerned about her disappearance and what may have happened to her, they have been under steady attack since that night. People just assume they know something or had something to do with it.

I think they have told the Aruba PI all they know. What if they really cannot figure out what happened to her either?

I also think that Joran is being held because they have to hold somebody as they try to figure out what happened. He is being held for his own safety. Imagine what it would be like if he were not under protective detention - he would be stalked and possibly killed by some nut. This case is over, They cannot figure out what happened to Natalie. By putting all the energy and making up what happened and presenting it as truth, valuable time has been lost in pursuing other possibilities.

There were people all over those beaches at all hours. There was the Soul Music Festival in town and one website estimated the island had about 8,00 visitors on the island for this and some arriving by private boats. There are many things that could have happened to Natalie after Joran left her.

The witness story that says he saw him by pond apparently has a conflict with documented times that at least one of the Kapote (?) brothers was at home on INTERNET.

[shonane]

I would be willing to bet that these lynch mob-ers are liberals, that think conservative thought and personal resposnsibility are not important in this ovedr-indulgent world.

GWD-from Birmingham, not Aruba..LOL..hahahahaha..

Posted by: birmingham dog | August 6,
=======================================
Hey, Bdog, lets not through Liberal or conservative in here. I am very much a liberal and think like you do about this case. I thought the lynch mobbers were conservative, definitely right wingers. Liberals would never be part of that kind of mentality, don't think. Treehugger posting here, for example, is someone I would have guessed is liberal, environmentalist, and seems to thing similarly to the way we do. People don't really fit into these two giant political boxes anyway. Funny that we both mentally put the opposite political labels on the lynch mobbers - not my group?

[Treehugger]

ROFL !
The Treehugger ID gives away my political leanings, eh ?
I guess so, just don't accuse me of being a democrat...or a republican, for that matter, and don't get me started on the futility of a two-party system in modern day America. That's not what this thread is about.
But it is noteworthy that everytime you get close to discussing whatever real "facts" there are in this case, someone throws off the topic-by trying to "defend Natalee's reputation" or brings in the political AND personal mudslinging.
Whatever...I know that I am not the only one who sees Texas Equusearch as criminals for the destruction of the Sea Turtles nest, the draining of the pond, tearing up pristine beaches with their pickups and 4-wheelers and the violation of the bird sanctuary. Each time following the lead of Tim "I'm 200% sure she's there" Miller.
It's rather "ironic" doncha think, that right after Tim "Let's empty a pond that was dry at the time" Miller was denied authorization to empty said pond, a "witness" came forward. Hmmmmmmmm. Golly gee, I wonder how THAT could have happened...and where did he go ? Hmmmmmmm.

[shonane]

There was the Soul Music Festival in town and one website estimated the island had about 8,00 visitors on the island for this and some arriving by private boats. There are many things that could have happened to Natalie after Joran left her.
===========
Correction to # above. The estimate was that about 8,000 visitors were in town.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

floridaPatty

It's nice to read from one with a healthy sense of sensibility. I know that most people are that way. This is kind of an unusual community here -- in the sense that it can equally have sensible honest folk along with the profane and outright warped. It's a free forum... And anonymous!
It contains the genuine and the imposters. The difference is sometimes difficult to determine. But there are clues.

All I see are characters typed on my screen. I know they can come from anywhere in the world and have any kind of motive or agenda. Some are here only for their own amusement and demented games. Some are lucid and kind and wise, intending to uplift or enlighten. The words are all we have to go by here.

"Out of the heart the mouth speaks" is a truth that is the most revealing aspect of forums like this. So it only shows me what kind of "hearts" are on the other end of this cable!

There are many more readers than writers. A sensible reader, such as yourself, can easily recognize truth and differentiate sense from nonsense. So it bothers me not that the nonsense comes. It's how they choose to waste their time.

It simply presents an opportunity to turn on a light for those who will see it. Those who REFUSE to see it are without hope anyway, because of their willful blindness - which they make known by self confession of their own nonsense: "A fool is known by his words" and words here are the ONLY way we know anyone. In many cases, it is amusing to me how their self-chosen names at once reveal what they are like!

The other key is what they react to. It is interesting how they will latch on to the very thing that describes them, when no one referred to them specifically. That also shows what they are made of, inside, the part they even boast that only God sees. So true he doesn't need the clues I have to look at! "A wise man hears and increases knowledge. A fool mocks at wisdom and instruction."

When I read one argue against making judgments from known facts, by making his own judgments in ignorance of facts, with self contradictory statements, based on his own assumptions, I just smile! I know they have just made themselves known!!!

Fortunately, this is not in any way a statistical cross section or representation of our world. Thank GOD! Most people I actually meet and speak with face to face ARE sensible. So I try to write what makes sense to me and I will engage a conversation primarily to increase light for the truth seekers and those who love light, since "God is light and there is no darkness in Him."

You mentioned that you wished you shared my, "faith in the Aruban Judges."

Actually, it's not a issue regarding their own trustworthy nature. The point is that THEY have at least put Joran in prison and KEPT him there based on THEIR reported belief that he is likely guilty of kidnapping and / or murder.

Even if this is just a charade. J IS in prison. And he IS still subject to staying there longer, being tried and convicted and having Prison be his permanent address, from which he can no longer ply his chosen lifestyle!

I am trusting their opinion ON THIS POINT! ... applauding their judgment at this point.

I personally have concluded, along with most who are more knowledgeable of the truths that ARE known, including, but not limited to, the Aruban prosecutor and Natalee's parents, that there is no reason for him to, IN FACT, refuse to tell the plain, simple, single, straight forward story of his activities with Natalee from the moment she was in the car with him until he last saw her - which, according to all logical conclusions, was when she was either no longer determining her own fate or sadly, no longer breathing......

But, even if he were successful in escaping prison, a la Simpson et. al., I believe God when He says, "There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed," "Judgment day will come," and He will be "The Judge of all the earth."

So my faith and trust is ultimately in HIM.

[shonane]

I know that I am not the only one who sees Texas Equusearch as criminals for the destruction of the Sea Turtles nest, the draining of the pond, tearing up pristine beaches with their pickups and 4-wheelers and the violation of the bird sanctuary.

Posted by: Treehugger
=========================================
I think Texas Equiusearch sincerely wants to help find Natalie. I do not, however, think they should be allowed to roam about and do what ever they want to do in a foreign country (or even in the US.) I also think their tactics of stalking PVS is probably a crime that should be addressed.

It is hard for searcher or investigators (whether Search or our own FBI) to go into another country, understand their culture and their laws and operate within them. I understand completely why the Aruba folks say this is their investigation and they need to oversee or approve anything Search does and will only use our FBI as consultants.

Search most like did destroy the turtle eggs, like baby elephants blundering around obvious to what they had done, but with good intentions in what they were trying to accomplish. Still, the damage is done and apparently these eggs were ready to hatch. There is a reason that Aruba has it's environmental laws and their government most likely spent considerable time and study before making these laws.

If one does destroy turtle nesting areas, bird sanctuaries, or violate environmental laws in Florida where I live, you WILL be prosecuted if law enforcement finds out. Ignorance of the law is no excuse (citizen or foreigner). Two kids with legal hunting licenses shot a bird close by to where I live several years ago - forgot which bird, but it was protected - and one of the boys at 18 yrs was tired as adult and sentenced to a year and 1/2 yr in prison, even though he didn't know the bird was protected. I think the Aruba government has been very lenient and generous in putting up with the drama that is going on there, out of a real commitment to use whatever resources made available to to cooperate to solve this case and find Natalie.

If the Aruba investigation says, you are wasting your time at the land fill, we already looked there when the witness came forward and when the body would have been fairly easy to notice, then there will be accusation that they are trying to cover up. Now you want to talk about potential environmental impact, stirring up all that waste at the land fill could really start some problems. They apparently don't have OSHA standards comparable to the US (and we have our own cesspools too). But, theree are bio hazardous wastes in there being dug up and stirred about and some of these things go up into the air or could mix chemically with other wastes. The search folks do not need to be out there without proper protective clothing and masks and neither do the family. This is very serious business, a potential danger to the air, and especially to the people who are out there.

There are limits to what the country of Aruba should be expected to spend or tolerate to solve a case. I believe that they want it solved as much as anyone else. However, there are limits to budgets and resources and they indicated that is is blown already. There will be other law enforcement needs this country has for the remainder of the year that will be negatively impacted by the expenditures on this case. AT some point, they will have to say that they have done what they can and everybody go home.

[Treehugger]

AkekoaHoAlethia-
So, based on assumption, not fact-or this case would have been dismissed-you have already convicted him in your own mind.
Brilliant...and precisely why the Dutch law does not allow for leaks the media to try the case themselves.

[Isanah]

I think there is too much being read into the "no body, no case" reportedly said by PVDS.
If I was reassuring my thought to be "innocent" son that he will be alright after finding himself in this situation...I might use that phrase to simply mean "don't worry, there is no prove there has been a murder without a body being found" thereby, since your innocent try to not feel hopeless in this situation. Not a popular slant to this blog for most believe Joran is guilty as sin. I can only hope that if he is guilty they find some proof! This whole situation is insane and ultimately it is going to be the fault of Aruba's LE if it is not resolved. Nothing so far in this case...not even the circumstantial evidence that convicted Peterson. By the way...it is still hard for me that Peterson almost committed the perfect crime. In realty there still is reasonable doubt to the letter of the law within that conviction. Similarly even with a body in the NH case, there is going to have be a lot more evidence then he admitted being with her that night! Can people as "stupid" as Peterson and Joran pull off perfect crimes? That is a defense in, and of, itself!

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

TH

You do misread.

"I personally have concluded, ... that there is no reason for him to, IN FACT, refuse to tell the plain, simple, single, straight forward story..."

[Treehugger]

Shonane-
I agree with everything you have said, with the possible exception of TES being well-intentioned. Tim Miller got involved with the seaching thing after his daughter was found raped and murdered by someone who they could not bring to trial. He went on a drinking binge, he almost killed the guy, and his wife left him. If you do research on Equusearch, you will find that many people whom he has "helped" do not agree that he is worth the effort it takes to get him involved. He doesn't want to hear what ANYONE has to say, he is convinced of his own ability to *know*, and has in reality found very few people. It seems to me, that he is hellbent now on trying to save his own reputation, I mean, you can only be "200% sure" so many times before you start looking like a nutjob. (the ocean, the beach, another beach, the barrel, the pond, the landfill...etc) Now, there is reason to suspect that he has his hands dirty with witness tampering, as well as harrassment, and enviromental destruction.
This story is making alot of people rich.
Should we talk about Jossy Mansur and his involvement and ever changing stories for a moment, what does Jossy get out of this ? The answers are astounding !
As I said last night, there is ALOT more to this story than the public is aware of. Joran may or may not know more than we have heard, but the FACT is that every single bit of "Joran confessed" or "Joran changed his story again" is pure speculation and hype, because, for the umteenth time, if evidence was leaked to the media, INCLUDING the charge, the case would have been dismissed.
Now, I have to get offline for awile. This story makes me so angry. So many people believing the lies that are sold to them, so much injustice, accusations and plain old ignorance. So many people using the disappearance of Natalee Holloway to advance their own agendas.
It's digusting.
Grrr !
Sorry Shonane, I get carried away w/this, you have a nice afternoon, OK ?...I'm off to hug a tree.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

The most comforting TRUTH to me is that
God's judgment will not be dismissed by evidence "leaked" to anyone, which of course, would be a problem, not because it is leaked, but because it is as just described: evidence!

I guess the manner in which evidence of a crime is determined is far more important to some than the crime itself, no matter how serious!

But God is not impressed with man's claim to such technicalities. He just sees ALL, even to "the thoughts and intents of our hearts." And His record books are not written from the limited point of view of any man.

IOW -- God doesn't need a "leak" to make a judgment...

[Treehugger]

AkekoaHoAlethia-
Oh, I get it, you're one of those FANATICS.
Noted, and ignored furthermore.

...*runs away from crazy person*

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

The judgment I'm referring to, regarding Joran's refusal to tell the plain and simple truth, is along the lines of this one:

"This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God" which is declared in the Bible, John 3.

It's a principal most people recognize, and I firmly believe in (especially since I've tried it many times from both angles!). If the truth is favorable, men readily speak it; if unfavorable, they try to hide it. This states the main reason people want to keep evidence hidden. It may tend to incriminate them!

No one hides evidence that shows their inocence....

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

"the truth is favorable, men readily speak it; if unfavorable, they try to hide it."

I should have added, "or run from it."

[Treehugger]

All right, then have it your way, I knew you would twist what I say.
What are the Twitty's hiding ?
What are the folks in Mtn. Brook hiding ?

Actually, I really don't care what your OPINION of this is, you have proven yourself to be already decided and ready to convict, you prove the validity of the things I have said with every post you make.
And, beating on the bible will get you nowhere near proving your own sanity to me.
Beautiful afternoon outside, gonna go get me some, maybe you too should go get some fresh air, Akek. You know, let the stink blow off of you.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Joran's mom said he is redaing his Bible. So I would also commend him for that. It means there is hope for him when he comes to what Jesus said here:

"I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day." JOHN 12

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

And, as Joran reads to the last book, he will quickly come upon Jesus' Life giving words here, just as I did once, when I did smell that fowl oder in my life of sin, because I once thought I was righteous in my own eyes:

"You say, `I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me." REV 3

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

The point is: if God can clean up a wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked soul like me. Imagine what he can do with others less ruined?

That's why he brought light. That's why exposing the truth is better than hiding it? That's why i tell you these things.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

It has been interesting to discuss this here.

I must go now.

But continuing discussions on these issues may be also conducted here:
http://www.nowtrygod.com/

Or you can easily read some more or even listen here at you choosing:

http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/audio/

May God guide and bless with His Light all who have been here.

[blue]

Hell all...just a lurking. blue

[alert]

Natalee fell through the wide cracks in the Mountain Brook legend.

Ah ha,... great book title
"Mountain Brook Legends"

[John Merrell]

For cross-referencing Court TV "psychic detective" Noreen Renier's ability to distinguish between fact and fantasy, I have posted a summary on my web site. Noreen Renier has claimed for more than 20 years a fantastic fantasy that the international media have bought without question. The basis was a crashed aircraft in 1984 near Gardner Massachusetts. Renier indicated two passengers survived the crash and yet a medical examiner stated they died immediately upon impact. Any reader can resolve any question of credibility by examining my web site. I also update my recent litigation against her, having recently won a federal court judgment against her in late 2006.