Joran Van der Sloot No Stranger To Holloway's Group

From the mailbag. It just seems strange to me that three months into this people are still debating when Joran met the group of Mountain Brook students, when early reports suggest they were somehow reasonably well aquainted.

That's two independant reports now that suggest they were hanging out for a few days or so - but ever since Fox decided to make the kid an axe murderer, we really haven't seen any of these sources back in the news. Hmmm ....

Suspect Was No Stranger To Holloway's Group.

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- The Natalee Holloway case's main suspect, Joran van der Sloot, was no stranger to the Mountain Brook group. He'd been hanging out with them all week, according to one of Holloway's friends, NBC 13 reported. Jamie Justice said she got to know van der Sloot at the Black Jack table. "The way he came off wasn't at all in a threatening way," Justice said. "He was really naive to everybody."

Comments

[arbeej]

Sue wrote:
"The story from the beginning with her friends was they tried to talk her into a cab ride with them and she refused and said she was going with the groupp from the island. The story about the "Cab" wasn't even brought up unitl Twitty came back from her few day stay at MB.

Posted by: Sue | Aug 22, 2005 9:06:15 AM"

WRONG. The story from the beginning was that Natalee indicated she was returning with a group of MB STUDENTS. And everyone did believe she was getting in a cab. This was reported by me on one of the boards the very next day after we learned she was missing.

[sue]

I disagree somewhat. I am a female and have been with males and females who are so intoxicated they are irrational and impossible to deal with. NOT TO SAY THAT THIS HAPPENED, but Joran may have asked her to let him see her back to the hotel knowing he had to get up for school. She may have insisted on staying. I DO THINK DEEPAK is the one who they should be questioning though.

[kescah]

So arbeej- you are a friend of Natalee's from the trip?
So sorry for the loss of your friend. Wish I could help.

[sue]

I'm sorry.... The stories I read indicated her friends tried to stop her from going with these other people and she went anyway.................

[kescah]

They keep saying they are going to interrogate Deepak and Satish some more, that if they don't come in voluntarily they will arrest them, but I haven't heard of this happening. Wonder why they are waiting? Want to break Joran first or what?

[arbeej]

Thanks Kescah. I am the mother of one of Natalee's many friends.

Sue, it's easy to get confused. Twice her friends did stop & talk to her & invite her to go with them. One was a group of three which included my daughter. Natalee was invited to return with them but declined, indicating that she was going with another group of MB students. Another boy said he invited her to share a cab, but she declined.

About the cab, I think some people are getting confused in thinking we're all saying that she wasn't with Joran. I cannot say for a fact, because I have not heard statements from the actual witnesses who saw her get in the car, but I believe she thought that she and Joran were going to share a cab back to the HI.

[sue]

That's just terrible and I am so sorry doe all of you. At least we have had some closure due to KNOWING there was a body with my brother and at least knowing how he died. Other than that there isn't a whole lot anyone can say to anyone that knew Natalie other than I hope answers come around and who knows, maybe she is still alive. I certainly hope so.

[bery]

If that's the case, how come Ms Twitty thinks Natalee thought she was getting into a cab? The kids already knew Joran to some extent, and then Joran appeared at C and C's with his "friends" (their statement). So why now does she think Natalee thought she was going out in a cab and that explains her vulnerability?

[question]

Does anyone know what Fox will be reporting on tonight it says "JVS Shocker"

[icey]

The least of jvds's stories has him leaving NH on the beach asleep, which is totally irresponsible no matter where you come from or where you are on this entire planet.

At the least he should have:
1) Carried her to the HI, or..
2) Called the HI and asked to have her friends come over and take her back to the hotel, or..
3) Had one of the other 2 go to the HI and retreive her friends, or..
4) Call the police, period.

Since none of that was done, I have to assume one or all of the three did something bad to NH, and were using the beach as their typical drop off point for either their activities or the activities at some other party that NH was taken to.

As a man I have to say that I am embarrassed when I read the news and see all the damage men continue to do even in this day and age. I'm not quite sure how women tolerate us, really. From worthless macho and anti-social attitudes to out and out violence it's just getting old already.

Snap out of it guys, being a man does not mean forcing your will onto others. Being a man means nurturing, protecting, providing and sharing.

icey

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Female here. Has anyone noticed that 2005 doesn't work? Note the increase in violence since feminism. Feminists started out against abuses by males against females, and yes, there was plenty of that. But it hasn't changed, except for the worse. The only difference is that now chivalry is gone from most men- thank goodness some have held on to it. I'm not blaming men for that. However, it should be obvious that the physically stronger person should make sure that the physically weaker one (usually the girl) gets in safely. Yes, the older one should use his/her wisdom gleaned, but not a lot is gleaned between ages 17 3/4 and whereever Natalee was in her 18th year. Especially if her thinking was impaired by drugs or alcohol, a gentleman would make sure she got in safely. I don't care what year it is!

Posted by: kescah | Aug 22, 2005 10:38:39 AM

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[DeeDee]

Question: Fox will have an interview with Jorans "young" girlfriends parents in Aruba and they have the supposedly "shocker" opinions of Joran. This will be on Bill's show.

[DennisAOK]

The least of jvds's stories has him leaving NH on the beach asleep, which is totally irresponsible no matter where you come from or where you are on this entire planet.

At the least he should have:
1) Carried her to the HI, or..
2) Called the HI and asked to have her friends come over and take her back to the hotel, or..
3) Had one of the other 2 go to the HI and retreive her friends, or..
4) Call the police, period.

Since none of that was done, I have to assume one or all of the three did something bad to NH, and were using the beach as their typical drop off point for either their activities or the activities at some other party that NH was taken to.

Posted by: icey | Aug 22, 2005 11:50:03 AM

Exactly! And that is why the four suspects have been - and should have been - under suspicion from day one.

[kescah]

Sue, I'm so sorry. Very sorry.

[kescah]

Arbeej, where did you all post those comments please?

[kescah]

Snap out of it guys, being a man does not mean forcing your will onto others. Being a man means nurturing, protecting, providing and sharing.

icey
________________

Thanks for keeping a good view of this despite the atmosphere today, including the feminist attitude and the male macho attitude. Many of us women would love to see the day where all men are nurturing, protecting, providing and sharing. I like to be treated like a lady, and despite their feeling that they are supposed to protest it, I think many others would. My hubby is great. :)

[sue]

Hate to say it but now a days there are as many women who abuse men as there are men who abuse women. The abuse may be different and some times not. I am truly sorry for what NAtalee's family is going through. It is a true shame and what's worse is they may never find out what really happened. Everyone can speculate but there are only a few that really know. I just don't understand why the police waited so long to arrest the primary suspects. What a waste.

[DaveinAtl]

I've been a lurker on this blog since very early in June and I simply can't believe this entire group of comments. Dan, for some reason, trots out an article that's clearly... repeat CLEARLY... identified as posted JUNE 27 (never has been "update" and everyone is acting (along with Dan) as though its current news. The article is 2 months old and even Dan discusses it as though its brand new.

What's more scary is that we are clinging to old data in the hopes that this story doesn't get lost in history.

As a father, with a pre-teen daughter, I became swept up in this story because I fear what could happen to a happy, energetic and friendly young woman who might just be naive enough to think that she was safe enough to possibly let her guard down in a tourist area that professed to safe. I may have to deal with similar decisions in my near future, how do I explain to my daughter that a smiling attractive face could mask unknown horrors?

I hope something breaks on this very soon because I don't think fooling the public with old, already swallowed news, will keep the story alive for too much longer.

[mona]

what are you trying to get at Mona? do you think the father actually did something to natalee?

Posted by: sue | Aug 22, 2005 9:56:12 AM

Thats my theory....I highly doubt they ever took natalee anywhere other than the Van der Sloot home....

[Kat_Gram]

He was probably just gambling at the HI Casino and the MB kids were there. They might have been the only other ones his age around. The other kids probably has mentioned him or talked to him and Natalee didn't perceive him as being a threatening type of person.

Does anyone know why when the reports were first released, she left "C & c's with a local drug dealer ? "
Did they mean Joran or Deepak ?

[Jason]

Ok what a bunch of crap! First of all there is a huge difference in the fact that he wasn't a stranger to the MB group. That does NOT mean he was hanging out with them. He was in there every day gambling. So hell no he wasn't a stranger. They recognised him. BIG DEAL! that does NOT in ANY way suggest that Natalee knew him DAYS before. And you know what that is EXACTLY what a preditor would do. Lay low, don't come on too strong become familar, just one of the group (oh what a nice Guy) can you say BTK (head of his Church) can you say Ted Bundy.

Again SO WHAT they knew WHO HE WAS it does not imply assocation as in partying together only that they were familar with who he was.

[Jason]

George T,

You need serious help Dude!

[DownSouth]

Dan,

Why are comments like Shabba's aimed at the Kalpoe's race allowed? The Joran bashing stuff is also usually over the edge. I don't know what happened that night but it is a fairly safe bet that no one here does either. Innocent until proven guilty is the hallmark of justice among us. Please keep that thought in mind. A possibly innocent 18 year boy was in jail on his 18th birthday.

I'm all for making criminals pay but the crime has to be proven first. If Joran is guilty I would like to see him imprisoned but I still won't call him names. What would be the point?

[Roy]

Besides, if she did know Joran, thinking his was a tourist at the HI, she still thought she was getting in a cab.

Posted by: Kap | Aug 22, 2005 7:07:12 AM

she thought she was getting in a cab..
where did you get that FACT?
Just the opinion of the mother and a few MB kids.

[Roy]

Does anyone know what Fox will be reporting on tonight it says "JVS Shocker"

Posted by: question | Aug 22, 2005 11:39:51 AM

Like all soaps.... Cliffhanger..
Also cover of gossip mags.
And don't forget, take them serious.

[Robert]

I am in Joran Van der Sloot's corner because I believe he is being treated in a way that makes Lady Justice not only cover her eyes but shed tears from them. There is NO HARD EVIDENCE against Joran and 9/10 of what we call evidence will splatter if it hits the barn floor. As long as we have a steady diet of guess and speculation I will stay on the side that treats Joran fair.

Beth continues to get out of hand. She is slowly being moved to a position of hate which says to hell with others I want a pint of blood. Who needs fact. Would that she would shut her mouth and catch the next flight to Birmingham. She should be reminded that the ends do not justify the means.

Robert, Friend of Joran

[arbeej]

KESCAH, email me please. :-)

[Roy]

Robert, Friend of Joran

Posted by: Robert | Aug 22, 2005 2:12:11 PM

If he is innocent.. Why the lies?
Why the different stories?
Why refuse to answer questions?
Love is blind and probably so is friendship.

[ev]

I cannot believe that these so called friends of Joran are willing to stand by his side even after he has brought all of Aruba down with him. Why continue to lie if he's such a good friend maybe you can get him to tell the truth. Beth only wants to take her daugther home either way. George t, and Robert you guys are such great friends of Joran.

[Jason]

Robert,

Are you really that blind? Give me a break! The puke is so guilty it's not even funny. Although he is not alone in his guilt. He has lied his ass off time and time again. AN innocent person has no reason to do that. He may very well walk from this but somewhere some time it will catch up to him

[USAUT]

Okay - I can't just sit here and not comment. Bring down all of Aruba? No - I believe our media has done that! Look, not even for a split second do I think that anybody should go through what the Holloway / Twitty family is going through. And the same goes for Joran's as well as Deepak or Satish's families. It is all horrible! I also think of Joran's little brother and all the MB students, who constantly get bashed... I too have my views, and cant even beginn to understand why anybody would have left her behind. I am from New York and I dont care where you go, guys or girls, you come together, you leave together no matter what, but I guess thats a little to late now. I am sure Joran, the brothers and his father know what happen to Natalee, but I am also sorry to say, I am almost positve that we'll never find out what happen to her. Maybe when we watch "Cold Case" in 20 years from now, we'll all be smarter...

[Robert]

Many people talk about Joran and his lies and the way he was told not to talk. First, I do not know these things are true and you do not know if they are true. We are not able to see the official records of the case. Second, any lawyer will tell his client in a serious case to say nothing because what they might say in the mind of the police could be twisted into a different set of facts. Third, Joran may be telling untruths in order to confuse the police and keep them seeking. This is a common practice for teens. How many teens with friends have decided to tell different stories to keep their parents confused and in the dark? Joran could be innocent and lied as his only defense against a police force he felt would not believe him for lack of witnesses.

I really do not believe there is any proof to show my friend is guilty of any serious crime.

[USAUT]

And about Natalee "knowing" Joran days before... who cares? I am sure that he used to hang out in Hotels, Casinos, Clubs and Bars all the time. What 18 year old wouldn't? I dont care if that in Alabama or in Aruba,- just young kids in Aruba have I guess more of an opportunity to "hook up". From what I have seen, yes, Joran and his friends certainly are "party animals" but I also think they are not different from any other kid that age! If Natalee is not alive today, then I dont think it was an intentional killing, but rather a terrible accident they are trying to cover up... and maybe they all realized that it is "to late to come forward" because the media has already found them guilty.

[tangodancer]

To Mona

Out of all the absurd theories that have been expressed on this blog yours has to be the most SICK!

What kind of a mind even comes up with such crap.

[tangodancer]

To Mona

Out of all the absurd theories that have been expressed on this blog yours has to be the most SICK!

What kind of a mind even comes up with such crap.

[tangodancer]

To Mona

Out of all the absurd theories that have been expressed on this blog yours has to be the most SICK!

What kind of a mind even comes up with such crap.

[Sharon]

COMMENT:
I am in Joran Van der Sloot's corner because I believe he is being treated in a way that makes Lady Justice not only cover her eyes but shed tears from them. There is NO HARD EVIDENCE against Joran and 9/10 of what we call evidence will splatter if it hits the barn floor. As long as we have a steady diet of guess and speculation I will stay on the side that treats Joran fair.

Beth continues to get out of hand. She is slowly being moved to a position of hate which says to hell with others I want a pint of blood. Who needs fact. Would that she would shut her mouth and catch the next flight to Birmingham. She should be reminded that the ends do not justify the means.

Robert, Friend of Joran

Posted by: Robert | Aug 22, 2005 2:12:11 PM

RESPONSE:
ROBERT....Fact is, Your Joran is in Jail Robert!!!
Natalie HOlloway and her family is the victim!!
I am sure Beth can't wait to leave Aruba BUT WITH HER DAUGHTER...WHERE IS SHE ROBERT????? God Bless Beth ...keep on keeping on Beth ...God's truth will prevail and come forth!!

[tangodancer]

To Mona

Out of all the absurd theories that have been expressed on this blog yours has to be the most SICK!

What kind of a mind even comes up with such crap.

[DownSouth]

Joran may haved lied. Kids lie. Adults lie. Lying is apparently a natural protective instinct. I remember once some boys were going to beat me up because I had gone out with a girl on the other side of the color line. They asked if I was with her and I said no so they left me alone. That lie saved me a buttkicking and my town a problem. I lied to protect myself though I had done nothing wrong. I also remember when my kids were toddlers. I found that they would lie if they THOUGHT they were trouble.

I have seen so many posts of people saying how they would act if they were Joran, Deepak or Joran's dad. In truth none of us know how we would react if we were in the situation. That is why I don't criticize Natalie's mother. If my beautiful daughter were missing my civility might just fly out of the window. Her methods may be the only reason this case gets headlines.

[ev]

Robert and all of Joran's friends:

Maybe you guys know where Natalee is who are you anyway? Maybe you should post on a Joran blog instead of here. Obviously you are the wrong kind of people.

[tangodancer]

On one of the other topics on this site posters are having repeat posts. like mine. Sorry, it was certainly not intential.

[USAUT]

I was just thinking... what about Natalee's brother? I remember that Beth's mom mentioned that she was very worried about Natalee's brother Matt, who is home, in Alabama needing his mothr home with him.

Beth... let your hubby and Dave handle it for a while, go home, try to relax and gain some strengh and gain some clarity and be there for your son!

[g.]

To Robert friend of Joran

Actually, there are a lot of people that agree with you. We just aren't all on line yet. You don't have to leave. Please email me with information where I can email positive information to the family. But God forbid don't post it on this forum or the hate mail will be never ending.

[ev]

I believe Beth has been very classy through all of this. I have a daughter and I believe I would have lost it a long time ago. I don't think I could go about her daily routine with the media, looking around the island and being so strong. I would have probably jeopardize the investigation already because whatever I knew I would share with the media.

[wawa]

I wonder how the case would have been handled had Joran met his fate with one of the MB teens to blame. Bet it would have been solved day 3.

[Roy]

wonder how the case would have been handled had Joran met his fate with one of the MB teens to blame. Bet it would have been solved day 3.

Posted by: wawa | Aug 22, 2005 4:23:49 PM

I guess you just felt the urge to make a dumb remark.
Well, you did.

[Jack in Southern California]

TO: ROBERT, JORAN'S FRIEND:

Robert, I wholeheartedly agree with you. From purely legal standpoint, JORAN is and remain an innocent man. Were he in the United States, in fact, none of this interrogation dog & pony show would be going on. His right to silence would be, must be immediately honored.

It seems to me that there are so many bloggers whose level-headedness is obscured by their incontinent emotions.

Unfortunately, much of this brought on by the MEDIA - the true masters of SPIN. I have already posted elsewhere that the QUEEN of this nonesense is and remains NANCY GRACE (who has so little of it ["grace," that is]).

I have commented in another forum recommendations to JORAN (or his legal counsel), as to how he might handle the interrogation forum http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/08/sunday_night_na_2.php#comments

De vrijheid voor Joran!

Jack in Southern California

[Malichi]

George T wrote:

The ultimate honor. I believe it was an ass that was chosen by JC to ride into the city on its back, and palms were lain before him.

George, I would watch what I say if I were you.
See below:

6. Many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and will deceive many.
Mark 13:6

18. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people
Romans 16:18

6. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
Ephesians 5:6

[vincent]

Mona~

I hear you! It certainly is NOT out of the question that PVDS might have had a hand in things. It would explain the timeline a bit, too. If NH was taken to the VDS home, and not the beach, HI, etc., that would explain how things got accomplished in the wee hours, allowing enough time for Paulus to race Joran to school, albeit late.
Also, if one thinks about it, there is no way a father/atty would council "no body, no case" unless he knew it was "taken care of" once and for all. Not to mention the fact that PVDS knew all about her disappearance before the rest of Aruba was told. He backed his son and Deepak by saying "say nothing!", not, "what's this all about, son?"
He (PVDS) looked soooo stressed when he told Greta he was hoping Joran "hangs tough". He sure didn't sweat like that in the midday sun when he stood with his atty on release from the pokey! Cool as a cucumber;)

Pay no attention Mona, to those who are trying to make you feel bad for your 'feelings' about this case. It is no more offensive than those people disparaging the victim herself.

Oh, and "nice boys" don't have sex with strangers on the beach and then ditch them in the blackness. Nice boys don't outright blame specific people (guards) when they know that's a bold faced lie. On and on and on...
If I read one more time about the "naive" Joran, I'll hurl. Just look at that "nice boy" on tickle site and note his "nice" hands all over a girl on the dance floor...at a CHILD'S BIRTHDAY PARTY. Nice.

[Kat_Gram]

Hey Jack in Southern Calfornia:

So, I read your comments in the link you posted .

Make it fun? Play with them ?

This is a serious issue. Natalee is missing and Joran is in jail. The time for fun and games and play is over. He COULD go on trial for murder.

If he did what you suggest, he is making a mockery of the justice system and in addition, showing no respect for the law.

[Robert]

Robert and all of Joran's friends:

Maybe you guys know where Natalee is who are you anyway? Maybe you should post on a Joran blog instead of here. Obviously you are the wrong kind of people.

Posted by: ev | Aug 22, 2005 4:04:04 PM

___________________________
If we do not agree with you then we "are the wrong kind of people." That is right, I forgot. The right people do not want to be confused with the facts they want to make up there own 10 cent story as to how things happened. The right people have an attitude of to hell with the law, Joran's rights, and truth. The right people know what they want and damned if they will not get it. Who cares about JUSTICE let us lynch the kid.
If you do not grant Joran the right to fairness and justice you are a disgrace.