Joran Van der Sloot No Stranger To Holloway's Group

From the mailbag. It just seems strange to me that three months into this people are still debating when Joran met the group of Mountain Brook students, when early reports suggest they were somehow reasonably well aquainted.

That's two independant reports now that suggest they were hanging out for a few days or so - but ever since Fox decided to make the kid an axe murderer, we really haven't seen any of these sources back in the news. Hmmm ....

Suspect Was No Stranger To Holloway's Group.

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- The Natalee Holloway case's main suspect, Joran van der Sloot, was no stranger to the Mountain Brook group. He'd been hanging out with them all week, according to one of Holloway's friends, NBC 13 reported. Jamie Justice said she got to know van der Sloot at the Black Jack table. "The way he came off wasn't at all in a threatening way," Justice said. "He was really naive to everybody."

Comments

[carol]

On one of her very first interviews, Beth indicated that the kids knew him and that he seemed like a nice boy.
I remember hearing her say that.

[sensible]

He did have school that week, so he could have hung out at the HI after school or after tennis practice.

[sensible]

PS: I notice the article says "seemed like a tourist." This doesn't say he actually said he was a tourist.

[trackable]

I can't even comment.

[shonane]

Well, that explains why Natalee felt comfortable leaving with him. She had been around him all week. Kinda blows all these folks theories about carving out doesn't it? I have believed Joran and Natalee just hooked up - mutual attraction.

[Shadoworm]

Well shonane EXPLAIN what happened to Natalee if they just hooked up. Seems to me that when you hook up one person does not end up missing afterwards unless something unforeseen happened. Usually once you have hooked up you make plans to see each other again and especially late at night make sure that the other person gets home safe unless of course it was not mutual.

[Shadoworm]

And before you go on about how he left her at the beach cause she wanted to stay there explain why he and his buddies lied about dropping her off at the hotel and the security gaurd.

[TooLate]

Why would he pick that group of teens (from ALABAMA) to hang out with all week? (I am from AL, still live here, always will, so I am not being derogatory.) Does this prove or disprove the predator theory? This just gets stranger and stranger....

[chickadee]

First off, he DID tell some of the group that he was a tourist from Holland. Why the need to lie? And, of course he came off as being a "nice boy" That was part of the plan. How do people like Ted Bundy come across? As handsome, friendly all around nice kind of guys. The fangs come out later. And I've heard that he was around all week, but not necessarily with Natalee.

[oneyka]

So now, Joran is a "nice kid", this is swaying his favor and little by little these opinions here are going againts the MB kids? I notice less and less favorable comments about Natalee, Mrs. Twitty and more leaning towards the killers, what a shame! I am glad they do not have a jury in ARuba or there would be more than 100 jurors "writing books" after their acquital of MJ, not they say "guilty!" It is laughable of the lack of integrity on some people that can change their minds towards where the wind blows.

[iwabwu]

After going over this yet again, and based on the latest assurance of cooperation, I wonder if anyone has seen a chart of the political affiliations of the main characters involved in this case?

I've seen a few timelines, but considering all the politics that seem to be involved, and all the talk about the up coming elections, I'd just be curious to see how they are all aligned. Thanks.

[P in S.E. Asia]

Dont worry,

One day some of u Joran Bashers will give him a break.

He has waitied alomst 3 mths already, im sure he can hold out for at least 2 more... after which he will be exonerated.

And those who wish to villify him will die in their disgust

[Kap]

This doesn't prove Natalee knew Joran. There were over 100 MB students there.

Besides, if she did know Joran, thinking his was a tourist at the HI, she still thought she was getting in a cab.

None of this proves Joran's innocence.

Joran apologists will be the ones eating crow when this is all said and done. You people will grasp at anything for this punk loser.

[George T.]

RE:
Usually once you have hooked up you make plans to see each other again and especially late at night make sure that the other person gets home safe unless of course it was not mutual.

Posted by: Shadoworm | Aug 22, 2005 2:34:16 AM

Now are we saying that the Male is always responsible for the female, even if the female was the first one attracted to the other. Is this not sexist?
Or is it because she was a tourist?
If it is considered that He was a Tourist also (because He did not look like the rest of the islanders), and She were the older, then why wouldn't She be responsible for making sure He got home safely back to the HI.
This is 2005, not 1905, and the rules have changed.
The male is no longer the aggressor, he may be the one being sought and Wanted. The older person should be considered to be the one with the most smarts.

[ChinbeardXIV]

Joran apologists will be the ones eating crow when this is all said and done. You people will grasp at anything for this punk loser.

Posted by: Kap | Aug 22, 2005 7:07:12 AM

Kap...you're basing all of your animosity for JvdS on what BHT and the MSM say--and yet, you still think that anyone who isn't convinced of JvdS' guilt is an "apologist"...???

You know, it's a fact that he's from Holland--and I don't know of anyone who would ever refer to themself as a "tourist". Maybe that was just assumed...

"Aplogists"...that's funny, Kappy...

[George T.]

RE: It is laughable of the lack of integrity on some people that can change their minds towards where the wind blows.

Posted by: oneyka | Aug 22, 2005 4:57:21 AM

Luke 8:25 ...Where is your faith? and they being afraid wondered...for He commandeth Even the Winds and water, and they obey Him.

Maybe "where the Wind blows" is not such a bad thing?

[George T.]

Kap, I'm so glad to see you are back. How are you?
I've missed your input. Great opportunity to see differing views of the same situation.

[mona]

Well, that explains why Natalee felt comfortable leaving with him. She had been around him all week. Kinda blows all these folks theories about carving out doesn't it? I have believed Joran and Natalee just hooked up - mutual attraction.

Posted by: shonane | Aug 22, 2005 2:22:55 AM

It also could explain why Paulus appeared at the Casino on Natalee's last day in Aruba. Maybe Joran told his father about the beautiful young woman and his father hatched a plan....

[dave]

Where has this ever been denied? I've heard certain people say they were familiar with him, others said they weren't. I don't see where the debate comes from.

[ev]

George T why makes you think that Joran is not the one. Usually when you have hooked up with a girl you make sure you take her home and kiss her goodnight. Why did Joran lie to begin with. Why was story made up before her mother got there. What are you living under a rock. Have you not read what's been going on in the case. What the hell do mean when does a boy become responsible for a girl? What are you friend of Joran's. Boys usually don't lie if they know they have nothing to with it. Wake up.

[dave]

Also, why is this important to here these sources referenced on Fox? We have heard plenty of times from MB kids on Fox that he seemed like a nice, normal guy.

[Sue]

I'm not so sure the finger shouldn't be pointed more in the direction of Deepak.... I think Joran may be covering for him, but that's all. I just feel any 18 year old would have cracked by now if her were guilty. I have a 17 year old son that would not have lasted this long if caught doing something like this. And I do think she knew she was getting in the car with Joran. The story from the beginning with her friends was they tried to talk her into a cab ride with them and she refused and said she was going with the groupp from the island. The story about the "Cab" wasn't even brought up unitl Twitty came back from her few day stay at MB.

[DeeDee]

The answer has to be in a video of either the casino or one of the Holiday Inn entrance doors. I imagine that those videos need to be veiwed and reveiwed until the answer shows up. It has to be there. I hope Beth can get her hands on every video that HI has.

[Sue]

wasn't there something about the video's being taped over or lost... I can't remember. Even so, someone knows exactly what happened to her, whether anyone else ever knows is a mystery.

[mona]

I 'd really like to know why the fact that Paulus was at the casino on Natalee's last day hasn't drawn more interest...it surprised the hell out of me when I heard it and thought that was very strange....now if its true that Joran was hanging there all week ...it is even stranger...Paulus is a lot more involved than anyone cares to think...

[George T.]

EV
RE:George T you are a total ass

The ultimate honor. I believe it was an ass that was chosen by JC to ride into the city on its back, and palms were lain before him.

It is all from your point of view...

[George T.]

RE:
What are you friend of Joran's. Boys usually don't lie if they know they have nothing to with it. Wake up.

Posted by: ev | Aug 22, 2005 9:00:23 AM

I Am a friend of Joran's, though I have never met him.

[Shabba]

Notice no one is coming out and saying that Deepak is a nice fellow. It's time for the little cowardly turd to be back behind bars alongside Joran.

[DeeDee]

George: You seem to refer to this relationship as what would have been normal. This was not a normal relationship between Natalee and Joran. Since you are Jorans friend you must realize that he has not had anything "normal" about his life as a teenager. How many teens have their own apts and their own accounts at the local casino? How many freely go to the local bars and clubs and abuse thier fathers position of authority on a tiny island to have extreme privleges? Think George!

[mona]

Anyone think Joran introduced Natalee to his Dad...or did he just point her out to him?

[silkee]

There were 130 students from Alabama on this trip. To say that Joran met or hung out with some does not mean with all. So why insinuate that the MB student was lying when she said they just met him that night?? The same applies to Dan's post about the girls when asked were they drinking? One said yes, one said no. Well -- maybe one was and one wasn't!!

If I'm not mistaken the Twitty's looked at the videos from HI. That's how they got the description of Joran and it was an island kid talking to Charles Croes who put a NAME to the description. I think to say it was the MB kids that pointed him out to the Twitty's reflects what the MB kids saw as they were leaving C&C's at closing time.

[ChinbeardXIV]

Dennis and Mona...wow...it amazes me not only how two intelligent individuals like yourselves can implicate JvdS in a crime which is currently only a missing person case, but that you've managed to also judge his father (PvdS)guilty as well.

I'm staying on the fence in this one. While I feel (in my gut) that JvdS is guilty of something, at this point, I can't even imagine of what it is that he's guilty.

[jayjay]

I am with "Dave" here, when did JVDS's familiarity or lack thereof to the Alabama kids become such a main topic of concern??

Whether he met them or NH when they got off the plane the week before or he met her 12 hours before she was to leave, it does not change the fact that he was the last person known to have seen her, nor does it change the fact that he admitted to either consensual or forced sexual contact with her, nor does it change the fact that he blamed someone else (TWICE that we know of)!

And let’s not forget the subtle explanations in his stories for potential injuries to this girl!!!

[ChinbeardXIV]

DeeDee...you're losing your argument on that one. Many American teens do all of what you've listed except for having their own accounts at local casinos--and--there have been statements in this case which refute that for even JvdS.

We have a whole class of snotty-nosed rich kids that make JvdS look like a ragamuffin.

[mona]

Dennis and Mona...wow...it amazes me not only how two intelligent individuals like yourselves can implicate JvdS in a crime which is currently only a missing person case, but that you've managed to also judge his father (PvdS)guilty as well.

I'm staying on the fence in this one. While I feel (in my gut) that JvdS is guilty of something, at this point, I can't even imagine of what it is that he's guilty.

Posted by: ChinbeardXIV | Aug 22, 2005 9:28:40 AM

I am only suggesting another avenue to investigate. As for Joran we know for a fact he is guilty of lying at the least ...

[Shabba]

A poem to commemorate Natalee....

Innocent, 18, with the world ahead of her
Trusting, loving, and beautiful
No reason to think the Dutch treat
would turn out to be so bitter
No reason to think she'd be getting
such a bad plate of curry

Leaving Carlos's, only wanting to see
magnificent sharks, swimming in the lagoon
Mountain Brook students enthusiastically
waved her off, metaphorically seeing her beautiful future.
Deepak and Satish in the back seat
The older Hindoo smiling with the devil
Plotting inevitable sinistry.

The moon, the stars, the balmy tropical air.
Natalee was not in paradise for long.
Let's make whoopee, proposed Joran.
Nae, I can't, I'm a good girl.
Protested Natalee.

Brandished crowbar, smote to cold cheek,
Deepak did the dirty work
Crying Natalee, Joran and Satish indifferent to protests
It was all over, sad ending
for lovely Alabamian

Don't worry dear Natalee,
smiling down from heaven
Satan will take care
of the dastardly doers
Deepak roasting in the fires of Hades

[ChinbeardXIV]

I am only suggesting another avenue to investigate. As for Joran we know for a fact he is guilty of lying at the least ...

Posted by: mona | Aug 22, 2005 9:35:46 AM

Thanks, Mona, for the follow-up. I also responded in the other thread...

I agree--investigate ALL avenues, including PvdS, the MB kids, and even the Holiday Inn.

As for lying, in the US, it's not a crime--unless one is under oath. Is it the same in Aruba?

[Sue]

First of all....... I know NOT a single 16-18 year old girl or boy that wouldn't use their father's authority figure to their own benefits.... Who really cares if Joran had his own gambling account? It doesn't mean he is a murderer NOR does it mean he isn't. Why have all these people who say they saw Joran punch Natalee in the face not been called back down here to swear in their testimony..... IF Natalee thought she was getting into an Aruban cab, why alone????? Don't you usually catch a cab with a friend? She got into that car with Joran knowing she was getting into the car with him... why would she have done that if he had just punched her in the face. From the beginning the group of MB kids said they told her not to leave with Joran.

[mona]

As for lying, in the US, it's not a crime--unless one is under oath. Is it the same in Aruba?

Posted by: ChinbeardXIV | Aug 22, 2005 9:42:16 AM
I think in the case of a missing person it obstructs justice and leads many to suspect the guilt of those involved.

Why do you make excuse's for Joran do you really believe he is innocent and this is just some vast conspiracy against him?

[mona]

I still want to know if anyone thinks Joran might have introduced Natalee to his Dad at the Holiday inn Casino?

[sue]

what are you trying to get at Mona? do you think the father actually did something to natalee?

[jayjay]

George T,

Do you have any medical documentation that allows you unsupervised access to the real world?

Why is it that you are hell bent on blaming NH for this situation, even calling her the aggressor?

[keylargogirl]

Mona,

I think Urine could have introduced his Dad to Natalee at the casino. I also agree with you that pa pa vds is much more involved than anyone thinks. Maybe that is why Urine is keeping his mouth shut, to protect his sleazy Dad. Either Dad was in on it, or he was the one that got rid of the body. So, I guess it may be true that URine doesn't know where Natalee's body is, because daddy took care of that for him.

Disgusting, disgusting people. May they get what they deserve and more...

[Justice for Natalee]

No need for Joran to lie if he is innocent.

[Sue]

I wish I could tell you that the guilty party will get what they deserve but it doesn't always happen that way. My brother was murdered and we KNOW my sister-in-law (soon to be ex before he was found dead) was guilty and we know her father helped her. She is "Living in high cotton" as one may say now off the insurance money he had and social security to the tune of $250,000 and $6500 per month. I don't think anyone who murder's someone ever truly gets what they deserve. Guilt will eat at you but guilt isn't always there. I think if you are capable of murder you may not even have the capability of feeling guilty. STILL these boys are young and there has been no real proof Joran had anything to do with her murder, just he is the last person known to have seen Natalee alive.

[RONI]

NO WAY!

[kescah]

ever since Fox decided to make the kid an axe murderer
___________

Why do you say that Dan? It seems that LE must have some information on him or they wouldn't be holding him. Protective custody... possible, but I don't think they'd be interrogating him so frequently if he was in protective custody.

[oldtimer]

This is not a new story,old stories again are being rehashed here.

[RONI]

Sorry. Bad post above. Meant to say that the PM of Aruba is in no way going to hurt the investigation. He seems like a reasonable person. However, with the elections and all a new position on finding the truth may happen pretty quick. I hope so.

[kescah]

Now are we saying that the Male is always responsible for the female, even if the female was the first one attracted to the other. Is this not sexist? (2005)
______________

Female here. Has anyone noticed that 2005 doesn't work? Note the increase in violence since feminism. Feminists started out against abuses by males against females, and yes, there was plenty of that. But it hasn't changed, except for the worse. The only difference is that now chivalry is gone from most men- thank goodness some have held on to it. I'm not blaming men for that. However, it should be obvious that the physically stronger person should make sure that the physically weaker one (usually the girl) gets in safely. Yes, the older one should use his/her wisdom gleaned, but not a lot is gleaned between ages 17 3/4 and whereever Natalee was in her 18th year. Especially if her thinking was impaired by drugs or alcohol, a gentleman would make sure she got in safely. I don't care what year it is!