A reader wrote that an image they'd seen picturing a makeshift table outside the now infamous Fishman's Hut on a beach in Aruba looks unusual to him. Their position is that the traffic and sand pattern looks altered and it's possible something was buried beneath it - a shoe, perhaps. As they emailed back suggesting the image may be copyrighted, I've taken it down.
Interesting, if nothing else. I believe the area has been searched fairly thoroughly - but I think everyone following this case closely at some point wishes they could be on the island to take a look at things for themselves.
As previously noted, I don't think searching is the answer, anymore. The island has been searched - and fairly thoroughly, at that. What is needed is more information. Regardless of the many reports, I think I'd spend my time talking to as many people in different locations as I could to see what might be dug up. Someone on that island knows something and I don't necessarily think it's Joran Van der Sloot.
If I were trying to get someone, especially a boy, off the hook for something - I wouldn't give him any more information than absolutely necessary and have him outlast all interrogation out of ignorance, and not cunning, strength of will, or intellect.
Do we know for sure if the boys were tailed in the days after her disappearance, before they were arrested?
Posted by: Midge | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 07:28 PM
LandofOz and bubble, Thanks for the info on the image that no longer exists.
With everyone constantly yammering about the low crime rate on Aruba, does it seem to much of a coincidence that one of the few murders occurred during that time frame?
Posted by: Angles | August 2, 2005 07:26 PM
I do think that is too much of a coincidence.. especially right around the time of the arrests.
Posted by: StaticSilent | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 07:35 PM
Anna2,
Pretty good!
Very similar to my explanation but not exactly, but they did take her back to the HI, just as they said they would. She went to her room, used her inhaler, brushed her teeth (thus the DNA) and after that, something very vile happened within the confines of the HI and beyond.
Posted by: angelaberdine | August 2, 2005 07:19 PM
Couldn't have happened. NH's roommate got back to the room at midnight and remained there the rest of the night.
Posted by: DennisAOK | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 07:36 PM
If TE finds anything significant to the case, is it going to be allowed under the Dutch law?
Posted by: Susan | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 07:36 PM
Anna2,
That sounds like you were there and saw everything.
Posted by: Phantom | August 2, 2005 07:17 PM
Phantom,
Obviously, I wasn't but I did put the theory together based on accounts of people who say they were. Much of it from Dan's postings. It is only a theory.
Anna2 ...One wrong turn.
Posted by: LandofOz | August 2, 2005 07:19 PM
LandofOz
IMHO, more disasters occur because of "one wrong turn" than anything else.
Posted by: Anna2 | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 07:37 PM
Actually Dan took that picture down because it was a picture of the Van Der Sloot house that he had misidentified and a fisherman's hut. Tried to cover himself by suggesting the image may be copyrighted.
Posted by: Jessie | August 2, 2005 07:28 PM
misidentified AS a fisherman's hut.
Posted by: Jessie | August 2, 2005 07:35 PM
How can a house look like a fisherman's hut? There is no way.
Posted by: angelaberdine | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 07:38 PM
All the suspects do not seem smart enough to pull of the perfect crime without one single trace of Natalee. Her disappearance does not seem to be the work of amateurs. Doesn't this seem to be the work of "professionals"?
Posted by: Jacque | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 07:40 PM
Doesn't this seem to be the work of "professionals"?
Posted by: Jacque | August 2, 2005 07:40 PM
Jacque:
Absolutely! I have come to believe that Joran and the Carpool brothers don't know what Natalee's final fate was. But I believe that Paulus VDS is the one that knows. Whether he disposed of her body, or had her transported off the island, but I believe he is the one responsible.
That is also the reason why the 3 young boys have been able to lie and lie but not buckle under any pressure, yet Paulus see's Tim Miller or Beth and Greta coming and he starts sweating profusely. Maybe the "body language specialists" should interview Paulus while they are there from the Netherlands. IMHO
Posted by: CancunGirl | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 07:50 PM
Do we know for sure if the boys were tailed in the days after her disappearance, before they were arrested?
Posted by: Midge | August 2, 2005 07:28 PM
Van der Straten said surveillance was light, not 24/7.
Posted by: DennisAOK | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 07:51 PM
Why will the prosecutor not issue a search warrant for Paulus van der Sloot's house?
Secondly, we all the guessing going on there should be a link on the right column that lists video and statement made by the Chief of Polis - everyone has almost forgotten that except those that followed the case very early like June 1.
Posted by: andy | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 08:14 PM
MJH, although speculation, some here speculated on that a while back, if you recall.
The incineration angle has a long way to go - I am hoping for more information soon. But, as I said when I mentioned it, please don't look for anything quickly. It's a complex issue - as is everything in this case, it seems.
That there would be access to the refinery and she would have been incinerated and the beheaded islander who worked at the rifinery might have been a part to or a witness to and the reason he was beheaded, to send a message to the perps to keep shut up.
Posted by: angelaberdine | August 2, 2005 07:04 PM
HI ANGELBERDINE
i am learning to accept the things i cannot change!!
there is so much here i am getting a headache trying to keep up with it all.
so i am learning to use the wisdom to know the difference between what i can and cannot change or keep up with, if you will!!!
Let me know when the incineration theory comes up. i will pop in and out as my eyes permit!!
Posted by: MrsJimiHendrix | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 08:14 PM
I for one am thrilled they have a behavior specialist involved. This type of expert can simply observe Joran and come to scientific conclusions based on his behavior. He doesn't have to say anything.
...........................................
A thought. Joran is a minor gambling publically in casinos with his father. The legal age to gamble is 18, he is 17. Breaking the law? I think so. With his father? As reported. and his father is a JUDGE?????? (and people on that island are okay with this?)
Posted by: FloridaPatty | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 08:36 PM
W-H-E-W!!!!
ANNA S.: Simply magnificent analysis. I wrote a scenario almost verbatim about a month ago. I was really pissed at the MB girls and their misinformation campaign. Not willingly mind you; however, some folks are just too dialed in to what they perceive as granite without realizing there are perceptions from others’ as well. You wrote a wonderful and very, very plausible situation. As for me, it’s the best I’ve seen!
PHANTOM: Keep on rolling!
ANGLES: You bring a great point vis-a-vie “Columbian Necktie” so soon—2 days—after NH’s disappearance to the forefront on a “One Happy Island” that’s of course, void of crime.
LINDA: You were first! I’m so sorry and humbled; it was a long way back up to the top. I, too, have been espousing the notion that all the players involved don’t know everything in its entirety.
DENNIS: As always, you’re AOK. I’ve got a feeling that nothing is going to happen and the entire lot walks.
Posted by: Paulo | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 08:43 PM
Someone on that island knows something and I don't necessarily think it's Joran Van der Sloot.
Posted by DAN
Yes Dan, agreed, agreed, agreed! Stop digging and start asking.
AVA
Posted by: AVA | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 08:49 PM
And if they put in there report he was nervous, looked guilty, was a little angry.
So what. He will still walk out September 4. At this point, it is no longer body no crime. It is no confession, no crime. The Aruban/Dutch have nothing and the FBI less than that.
They screwed this up royally. The Arubans will allow the animals to walk. What do they care. So what a bunch of spoiled rich 18 year old Americans dont come (which they will, just not in school trips). Where there is a beer and a blunt-the kiddies will come. The Arubans are waiting this out just like Joran is.
It is funny, prior to this week I never heard this kid had an anger problem. I heard he was a Playa or a wanna be, but laid back. (it has been established 'Pak is the in your face guy). But St. Jossy pulled this story out of his fat ass and now, everyone is saying he had problems. WHO JOSSY, WHO is saying it. We want names!! I can say it, doesnt mean it is true. And Bill Oreilly tap dancing around him, like he knows this guy is full of shit and didnt want to incriminate FOX with a slander/liable suit.
I hate the freakin Arubans.
My friend just booked her trip to Aruba and another friend has a time share and is going next week. (It is near the H.I., I am asking for pictures.) Her statement "good let the fucking 18 year olds stay home." The tourist wont slow down, they will just be an older crowd or european.
Coolbeans-just my opinion, i mean no harm.
Posted by: Coolbeans | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 08:57 PM
Dan,
I am lovin your more recent posts more and more.
"If I were trying to get someone, especially a boy, off the hook for something - I wouldn't give him any more information than absolutely necessary and have him outlast all interrogation out of ignorance, and not cunning, strength of will, or intellect."
and ur preceeding sentence was even more poignant if u ask me.
"Someone on that island knows something and I don't necessarily think it's Joran Van der Sloot."
Im glad to see the focus is movin off Joran. I think the authorities will inevitable release him n pick up another suspect with time.
Posted by: P in S.E. Asia | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 09:12 PM
Cancungirl,
Yes, I agree.
I say go bring in Mr. VanderSlut himself, in handcuffs if they'll stay on with all that sweat,
and make him take a lie detector test in front of the FBI people.
Let them get in a cigarette smoke-filled room with that little eurodog, lap-dog slut, and give some answers to all of us.....
Lone War Eagle
Posted by: Lone War Eagle | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 09:22 PM
Actually Dan took that picture down because it was a picture of the Van Der Sloot house that he had misidentified and a fisherman's hut. Tried to cover himself by suggesting the image may be copyrighted.
Posted by: Jessie | August 2, 2005 07:28 PM
Actually, it has been confirmed, Jessie is an asshole, breaking news at 11.
Posted by: Cindi in PA | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 09:39 PM
No, CIndi - it has been confirmed - Jessie has left the building - he started to bore me.
Posted by: Dan | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 09:46 PM
I still think that maybe an ex boy friend killed her or she comitted suicide...or beach bums are involved..
If she was dropped of at the marriot it would have taken her 2 to 4 minutes to walk to her hotel.. The entrance of this part of the hotel is right at the beachfront.. In between there is a beach club and a parkinglot and I now that is not a safe place to be at night.Lots of beachbums doing their thing there.People I was their 2 weeks ago I know what I am talking about!! Some of these guys asked my cellphone number a couple of times,but I answered them in papiamento and they did not bother me anymore..
Posted by: MissAruba | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 11:01 PM
I wish I could take all of you to the island and set up a think tank to guide the investigation. Honest, I am much impressed and overwhelmed at the perspectives here regarding this mystery.
On the surface, there are so many twists and turns that maybe the reason this case appears to be so complicated is because of the bungling and 'ball droping'and people trying to take up the slack. Maybe, just maybe, the answer is so simple that it was overlooked in the early stages of the case. God bless Natalee and Beth.
Posted by: hobo | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 11:07 PM
coolbeans : Jossy Mansur is a freak oke,not the the rest of the Arubians.
Posted by: MissAruba | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 11:07 PM
No, CIndi - it has been confirmed - Jessie has left the building - he started to bore me.
Posted by: Dan | August 2, 2005 09:46 PM
Oh darn, and I was just starting to like the guy
Posted by: Cindi in PA | Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 11:19 PM
Im glad to see the focus is movin off Joran. I think the authorities will inevitable release him n pick up another suspect with time.
Posted by: P in S.E. Asia | August 2, 2005 09:12 PM
I couldn't agree more. I don't think Joran is guilty of anything more than being a scared kid who is being accused of murder!!!!
There has been a lot of discussiona around here about how the Holloway/Twitty's should behave and lots of people defending them saying that you don't really know how you would behave in the same situation.
Isn't the same true of being in the VDS's position? How do you know how you would react in the same situation? Everything I have read that they have done makes perfect sense to me. I am not saying that I would have done the same things, but their actions do make sense to me.
Personally, I would never have been even remotely nice to a woman who showed up at my house in the middle of the night and started accusing my son of being a murderer and demanding that he give her daughter back! She would have been told where to go and the door would never be opened to her again!!!!
Posted by: donnaanna | Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 12:33 AM
Personally, I would never have been even remotely nice to a woman who showed up at my house in the middle of the night and started accusing my son of being a murderer and demanding that he give her daughter back! She would have been told where to go and the door would never be opened to her again!!!!
Posted by: donnaanna | August 3, 2005 12:33 AM
First I would have snatched his ass up and demand he tell me what the hell was going on. After I had that information,I would still keep demanding the truth. Kids lie to protect their own ass. Eventually the truth comes out.
Posted by: Cindi in PA | Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 12:56 AM
Im glad to see the focus is movin off Joran. I think the authorities will inevitable release him n pick up another suspect with time.
Posted by: P in S.E. Asia | August 2, 2005 09:12 PM
Yeah the father and Inspector Clouseau,
Posted by: Cindi in PA | Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 01:01 AM
donnaanna,
Since Joran is the "suspect", people in here seem to forget that he has a mother n father n family as well, and a family that's goin through possibly a WORST pain than Natalee's family.
As such, he has been vilified beyond recognition. In fact even after he is exonerated (as we will soon find out), 80% of contributers on here will blame it on "the corrupt aruban justice system" or words to that effect.
u jsut wait n see
Cindi in PA,
Im sure u are much closer to agreeing that Joran could not have pulled this off.
So i guess now ur lookin at at his dad or someone else to vent ur anger on.
The final story that will hold is that HE LEFT HER ON THE BEACH... as inconcievable n irresponsible as that sounds, imma go with him on that one.
let's see someone prove us wrong.
Posted by: P in S.E. Asia | Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 02:16 AM
Quote:
She hadn't intended to leave with them - when Alana saw her walking out with Juron & asked about her plans she indicated that she was going back to HI with "them" - referring to MB students just ahead. She says goodnight to Juron and he leaves - to go to Kalpoe car - but while they are saying goodnight "them" left - that's why she's seen alone outside C&C as if she's looking for someone. She went back inside to see if she could find any other MB students - but the remainder of them had gone to the bar nearby to make sure none of their group was about to get left there. Inside C&C, Natalee runs into Deepak and tells him she's been left behind - he explains that Juron is riding with him & waiting at the car - he offers to take her to Juron & they'd drop her off at HI - that's why she's seen walking out of C&C with Deepak and heading around a corner (towards the car) - and when they pull out in the car she sees the MB students now back in front of C&C and speaks with them - but she's already in the car and tells them she'll just go back with them (Juron & Kalpoes).
My input:
Joran makes advances towards natalee in the back seat and natalee fights back giving joran a bruise under his eye. She at some point jumps from the car and joran runs after her. This infuriates juron who beats and rapes her while being out of control. Deepak May have taken part. Snuff style choked to death.
now on the beach near the fishermans huts. Then realize they must do something. He tells paul vanderslop who becomes involved. Paul makes a phone call and “friends” drive to the site to clean up. The boys try to take down the tarps covering the fishermans huts to wrap up the body, unsuccessful they see the garbage cans outside and take out the plastic bags and put her body inside. Somebody shows up. ”Steve Croes” and a friend.
“same friend you see on the right side of Steve Croes car during Greta’s fox news interview”
with the white pick up they transport her body away.
Quote:
What about the witness of an assault or abduction on a woman on the beach that night. It have information that it has been pursued by Aruba Law Enforcment for some time.
All the suspects do not seem smart enough to pull of the perfect crime without one single trace of Natalee. Her disappearance does not seem to be the work of amateurs. Doesn't this seem to be the work of "professionals"?
I dont think about the Landfill, papa Sloot is too smart never he let them bring her to the landfill. A lot of cases around the world is about landfill, so thats why we think other.
That there would be access to the refinery and she would have been incinerated and the beheaded islander who worked at the rifinery might have been a part to or a witness to and the reason he was beheaded, to send a message to the perps to keep shut up.
I keep going back to the guy whose throat was slit the day after two of Joran's friends were questioned by police - and I think it was the day after Steve Croes was jailed as well. I can't help but wonder if that murder was a message to all involved to keep their mouths shut.
...if Natalie is still alive and is somewhere...she looks the type that is smart and could out-wit her capturers. If she's anything like her mom she'll bring them all down and find a way back home to us. I haven't lost the faith that she still could put a victorious ending to all this. Even if she's looking from above.
all good things hope you do not mind my input.
Posted by: edward | Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 02:56 AM
edward, u thought this up ALL by yourself? wow, that's jsut remarkable.
Posted by: P in S.E. Asia | Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 05:29 AM
quite a few people think the old man did it.
Posted by: elan | Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 06:04 AM
I'd like to know why Poppa Sloot won't let anyone search his property. And if he moves, which I doubt if he has something to hide, will authorities have the right to search the empty property then? Why didn't they get search warrants for his property from the git-go? Seems to me a likely starting point.
Posted by: SusanW | Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 12:12 PM
P.S. If "the old man did it", what would be his motive?
Posted by: SusanW | Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 12:15 PM
no p in s.e.asia... the first is a quote off this board and the only part i added was the
"my input" paragraph...and more quotes put into some order.that makes sense.
most of this theory is developed from eye witness accounts and news reports.
depak was seen with her on his arm leaveing carlos and charlies.
she was seen going out looking around and going back in to carlos and charlies.
joran was in some pushing match inside of the bar.
so he left first"joran" possibly mad, and depok sat her down in the back seat with an already angry joran.
josey mansuer read the letter from the gardners wife 3 nights ago on fox where the gardners account of them trying to take off the canvas covers to wrap a body he had seen then the plastic bags and the white pick up
he also stated that they took her body down the road and turned left on a dirt road.
i do not think for one minute that a judge to be would want to be in the neighborhood of a dead body so my theory is that he called a friend like his police cheif best friend who probobly arrainged for the disposal team,steve croes and friend.
also josey talked with local friends of joran who said joran sells drugs and he and his "pimp club" would try to conquer american tourist girls on the last night in aruba. it was a game the "pimps" played. they also said that joran has a pop temper.
this was my firt post ever.. thanks
all of you have already solved this.. it is just that the statements are all over the place so look back and read all these posts and do some cut and paste..you have the answers... just not the body... its all theory..but if they put her in the dug out grave that was found and were seen by the gardner they would have to move the body , so they took it to the dump but after being seen again they moved it to the incinerator for final disposal.
as for why would the dad have done it.. only if he was involved sexually with the girl. there were early reports of a threesome with dad.
that rumor never went past the streets in aruba
i have seen no statments to that effect since.
Posted by: edward | Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 01:30 PM
just a note: i think its very possible natalee ran off .
she said to be very smart & organized.you never know what someone is thinking. also the 3 guys are not loyal to each other, specially when it come sto this. if one of them did kill natalee, one would crack & talk . i really think she had a chance to run off & she did , i also think she did her homework. did anyone consider maybe she set these 3 guys up.even hardened killers rat on each other. i been following this for a long time & i find it a great island.
Posted by: brian | Sunday, December 24, 2006 at 12:07 PM