The Truth, Natalee Holloway and Aruba: You've Got Mail!

From Island Hopper - who I banned yesterday because they looked like they needed a break.

I have given this considerable thought and after reading through the messages last night I see that you would prefer to have Roger "Natalee is a child molester that attacked Joran", blacklable (racist and bigot to the core) and the other Dutch or Aruban attackers than those that do intelligent research and attempt to find real answers and possible reasons for Natalee's disappearance  for the sake of a"political correctness" and "why can't we be friends" on this "ONE HAPPY BLOG".

I hope the Dutch and Aruban posters contributed nicely to your bleg to create your sudden compassion and love for those that have run the Holloway and Twitty families through the mud after one of their own most likely raped and murdered her AND they aided in the cover up.  Otherwise, I could never understand why you would do such a thing.  Enjoy your Aruban/Dutch blog for Natalee, but do not expect any appreciation from her family for being a sell out.Your little trick of having Phantom send my email headers to you was pretty stupid. 

IF you are really the one that hacked into my computer rest assured that you will be charged for the crime.  I am dismayed to hear tthat "p" was most likely really you  or a  friend of yours AFTER all, that is a sick and illegal way to get attention to your blog.

I'm growing as weary of an America that doesn't want the complete truth of this story to come out, anymore than do some in Aruba. I was half-way through a draft of a post on that when this email came in. Not even sure I'll bother finishing the post, actually.

Neither of those most entrenched on either side of this story wants the whole truth of the matter to come out - they can't handle the truth

There's at least something to be learned here.

But here's the best place to start. Everyone is talking about the circumstances of Natalee Holloway's departure from Carlos and Charlies, and rightly so ... but no one in America wants to talk about why a group of American high school students frequented the club throughout their visit ... now do they?

And no one in Aruba wants to talk about what that significant part of their night life is really about, either. Very few people are looking for the complete truth of this tragedy ... they're seeking only a relative and palatable truth. And that goes for both sides.

Ultimately by the time the complete truth is known, it'll mostly be ignored and both sides will be weakly served to some degree. That might not really help America or Aruba to greatest effect ... but at least we'll be One Happy World, again.

I'm tired. Maybe it's time to start slinking back into obscurity for this web log. It might not mean being popular ... but the company was good. Perhaps that's why so much truth abides there, as well - in obscurity. eh!

". . . better to fall in with crows than flatterers, for in the one case you are devoured when dead, in the other while still alive." Diogenes Laertius, Antisthenes.

FYI - All this is off the record, of course. You understand.

Comments

[RIBoy]

I came here early on in NH's disappearance first out of curiosity and then to maybe help with a differing opinion. There was a handfull of posters here steering the direction of the posting and basically getting angry at or ignoring opinions they felt were unwarranted.

So I got angry and simply said that if everyone was really serious and sincere in finding Natalee then everything has to be laid out on the table.....no restrictions. A theory after all is not slanderous....especially if you don't know the person. Slandering takes effect when obvious fact do not back up your theory....in those cases t's best to change direction.

So....if Beth and Jug really want help:

1- Please give the public relevant pre-trip information.

2- Please give the public relevant information of events from the trip that are non-prejudicial to the case vs Joran. Why get mad at the Aruba investigators and then do the same thing yourself....help needs to be 100% open and honest.

3- To any of the MB kids on the trip. If you have any pictures that may ring a bell with someone here please post them somewhere. Perhaps there's a person of interest in a picture that an Arubian who cares would recognize.

God Bless Natalee and may God help her family to have the strength to persevere

[Phantom]

{{{I don't know what to think of Phantom. He insists he did not BCC the headers of my email but he did. Now he says it was not intentional. I don't know what to believe. Just that there has been far too many lies going around and revisions of history}}}

I DID NOT BCC (Blind Carbon Copy) a copy of Island Hoppers email to anyone. A BCC implies that you sent the a copy of email secretly to a party other then the main recepint. I DID NOT BCC A COPY OF THE HEADERS OR EMAIL TO ANYBODY OTHER THEN ISLAND HOPPER!

Any of you that have a Hotmail email account knows that Hotmail gives you options on how you can configure your email window. You can change the width of the window, the number of messages on the page and etc, etc, etc.

One of the options Hotmail gives you is whether to display email headers from emails received in the same window as the message. You can choose between none, basic, full and advanced.

Since I first got this Hotmail account back in 1999 my headers option has been "advanced". NOBODY I've used this hotmail account to talk to have objected to this, except Island Hopper. I did not search out, copy and paste the headers into a email to Island Hopper. They appear with the message and then stay with the reply.

Maybe someone with a Hotmail email account can go and verify what I'm saying.

Like I said before,

I DON'T PLAY THESE SORT OF GAMES!

[Cindi in PA]

Phantom,

Relax, I don't think your reputation is at stake here. I am not a regular poster here, but I do read the posts. If you were underhanded this would have shown in your previous posts.

I do not have hotmail, but can back up your description as I recieve mail from a few hotmail accounts, which are set up in the manner you describe.

[TS]

Posted by: Phantom | July 9, 2005 05:59 PM
I DON'T PLAY THESE SORT OF GAMES!

For what it's worth, I believe you Phantom, and I'm sure everybody else does, too. Quit worrying about this because you'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure out why people say and do what they do. It's just not worth getting upset about.

[RealityBased]

Dan, can you or any of your sources find out what other "tragedies" happened at MB and if Natalee had been to CnC's prior to the night she met up with Joran? I saw this posted from SM:

I'm wondering if this post from the referenced site was made by the same ---(Dash) from Scared Monkeys? What other tragedies have happened at MB? Also, even though the "dash" from the hcgtv site claims not to have gone to CnC on other nights, did Natalee?

People werent hooking up with natives in Aruba. I know of two girls who got drunk and kissed (ONLY KISSED!) two Arubans but that was on a completely different night and Natalee was not one of them. She didn't even hang out with the two girls who did it. The trip wasn't about sex, or really even about drinking, it was about going to a beautiful place and relaxing because we all worked our butts off this year and were faced with many tragedies this year (even before Natalee) and we just needed to unwind. I guess we let our gaurd down, but we felt like we were in a safe place. (Namely, because we were.) None of us "let" this happen, it just happened. I really wish people would quit blaming us... we feel bad enough already

http://hcgtv.net/viewtopic.php?id=1059&p=19

and then there is this one by the same person known as "---"
I don't see how the "vibe" of the club is an issue. It was a night club, it was like any other night club. We were given the impression that it was very safe environment and a good tourist hangout. Members of my group went every night since we got to Aruba. I personally didn't get to go until the last night, but if it was thought to be seedy the first time, I doubt people would keep coming back. I was one of the last people to talk to Natalee, but never actually saw her get in the car. I'm assuming that the people who did thought the same thing I did, that she was on her way back to the hotel.

Wes, if you want to give me your E-mail, I can talk to you about the issue privately

http://hcgtv.net/viewtopic.php?id=1059&p=16

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1015&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=225

[mrsJimiHendrix]

TS et al:

HEY WHAT ABOUT THIS: tell me what you think, OK?

i have been thinking about this for a few hours and it may be wise.
no one here is telling private jokes or keeping others out.

more than likely atleast for me, it is protecting those who seemingly want to help Dan out and simultaneously not slander a missing girl by calling her a whore, etc. Personally I think alot of those posts are "drive by's" or the equivalent to crank calls of yesteryear!!

what if we set a rule that people use one screen name.

this way we will know who is who.

I THINK DAN IS FABULOUS and i want to stick around for other things too after this case. I have said this all along.

I do not know who is who and i cannot remember anyone unless they use the same name all or most of the time.

now i suspect some people use more than one and hence post often but come across as different people.

if i see someone, anyone who puts a lot into HELPING DAN i defend them.

so if anyone feels i have not been fair to them it is only b/c i have no idea who you are or what your motive is!! I like varying viewpoints, but there has been so much mean spiritedness for no reason that it is hard to tell who is who and it puts US ALL on the defensive!!

GANG, let me know what you think of that idea or anyone else, to just keep this with one screen name per person.

ALSO FOR DAN:

What about keeping the blog open to the public but the posts PRIVATE so that Dan's info can get out but only members can read other posters points. I think this would stop a lot of the "drive by insults"
AND THEN POSTERS WOULD NOT FEEL LEFT OUT, BUT MORE SECURE!!

what does everyone think of that???? i am not trying to keep people out, but so many people have had their feelings hurt for NO REASON!!

WE SHOULD STICK TOGETHER AND REASON THINGS OUT. IF FOR NO ONE ELSE THAN FOR DAN'S GENEROSITY!!

thank you!!

[fyi]

Phantom,
I use hotmail also, and you are exactly correct. I have turned my header display on and off on several occasions, mostly off because it makes it easier to read the message without all of the header information on there.

Don't let this get to you. I don't believe anyone currently here on RWV is holding anything against you or accusing you of anything and I have seen you post numerous times and you have always been very forthcoming and decent in my opinion.

So smile, carry on and let's get to the bottom of the Natalee Holloway case.

[fyi]

Dan -

Any word from your sources on the bone info and the mitochondrial DNA test? Curious if you have heard anything since many Aruban posters from yesterday were saying it was reported that the bone was no human but animal.

[thebest]

Phantom – Island Hopper is a nut Job. Period.

[andy]

Aruba,

The Bible is the law of physics; but since they did not have knowledge of physics during the early ages the laws of nature were explained it in parables; or riddles. Jesus stated that many will hear but not understand, many will see but not recognize, and many will sense but will not acknowledge.

For those whom are innocent have no fear, but those whom are guilty I'm going to give you knowledge. This knowledge will not save you from your ulimate fate; but may buy you some time.

Andy

[mrsJimiHendrix]

Wreck

i am sorry if you feel left out, but you brought this upon yourself.

you too were searching in the wrong places for ghosts and trolls

if YOU wreck could admit your part in being off in your perception, you just may find your perception may change!!

now get off or your high horse too, as you are no better than anyone else here!!

[Cindi in PA]

mrsJimmi

Sounds like a good idea, after all maybe if things calm down, people won't feel the need to use more than one screename anyway. I can't remember my AOL password half the time, let a lone change screenames LOL. If someone is sincere in posting they will stick to one name. I do use a different name than my aol account has, but I also include my email address with my post here.
After all, I can choose to delete on my email account.

Your idea is a good one.

[DT]

The tragedies that happened at MB were three students in Natalees class who had committed suicide that year.

Why is that the truth has to be somewhere in the middle? Can it not be true that Natalee was really a good person like all the reports from her friends have stated? Are people so cynical as to believe that EVERY teenager who goes out to a bar with friends is going to be promiscuous, get drunk, and do drugs? I knew plenty of people in high school who fit exactly the sort of description that I have seen given of Natalee. I don't think any of her friends are denying that she drank at the club, but the ones who I have talked to say that she did not appear to be drunk and all of them say that she was not the sort of person who did drugs or slept around. Her friends may all be liars and she may have done all of those things, but what evidence do we have of it? The only people who are saying anything to the contrary are suspects in her disappearence. Yet some people seem all to eager to believe the words of liars over the words of her friends and family who knew her well.

[TS]

Sounds good to me, mrsJimiHendrix. I think just using one screen name is a very reasonable request and for the very reasons you mentioned. I would think that TypeKey registration and posting should eliminate a lot of problems or else your post won't go through. Only members can read other posters points? That is another good idea that Dan might want to consider. :)

Terri

[!]

Sorry to hear about all the problems.
Will continue to ONLY read all your great info
you provide Dan til all in straightened out. Hope everything will work
out soon.
Sorry that there were certain trouble
makers that caused so many problems
for all.
I am shocked to hear who some of them were.
Very very sad.
Will check in at a later time.
May God bless you all and may God
Bless Natalee and her family & friends.
Piece to all.

[blacklable]

I just saw that Island Hopper named me in her/his/their e-mail as a racist and bigot to the core. I have no idea where this comes from, my mails usually give additional information from the local press and I react sometimes sarcastically to posts which seem way off and/or too biased for my feeling. I remember that I once became very frustrated by the "troll" naming and consequent intimate conversation between certain posters, but from day one I have never changed my name or attacked anyone here in a racist manner.
I, probably like many others, come by once or twice a day and read the news, and sometimes feel urged to add facts or comments to posts which have been either turned around, could not been known or were absolutely hurtfull to someone with a different few. It is Dan's blog and if he feels he has to ban someone that is his right, but I did not think it would happen to Island Hopper.

[wreck]

Mrs, I quit responding to you personally but I am going to one last time as you don't seem to get it. I have never asked Dan to ban anyone. Like MANY here, I asked him to look at the forum because 3-4 people were monopolizing it as a chatroom - usually off topic or constantly asking each other to Pm or e-mail each other. Yes, I did suspect that it was one or two people talikng to themselves. If that wasn't true, I apologize. But at the very least it was the same 3-4 people monopolizing the forum with private banter. The same 3-4 people (including Island Hopper) were the first ones to call everyone else a troll. I was sick of it. You do have a valid point every now and then, but you don't have to repond to every post! Just my 2 cents.

[WI Mom]

I believe Natalee was a good person, something bad has happened to her, and the people who could help locate her are hiding something. That's why I'm here.

[mrsJimiHendrix]

Cindi

i changed my screen name a while back because someone came on here posting with my name really early in the morning (west coast) when i was still sleeping!! 7:30 am my time!! GAG!!

i think for now it is probably good not to post real email addy's just b/c it does seem that there are some people who want to send out nasty emails.

so although most of us ARE adults here some aren't.

i hope we can all get along and learn from this

and DAN :

i want to meet people with power and influence in the media ASAP!!
Can i bribe you through paypal?

: )

[fyi]

Lago Girl - Thanks for the great pictures!

When you say they must dive at Boca Mahos, isn't that the same area as the California Point, where the lighthouse is? Is it the cavern that is referred to in this article posted by Dan today?

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/12095641.htm

[mrsJimiHendrix]

WRECK

and i apologise to you as well

sending you a white flag and hopefully now we can all work together and avoid this craziness.

Have a good day and don't let it get you down!!

[Dan]

Dear Ms. Hendrix -

I do not exchange "favors" for money. I am not a "media" whore.

I exchange "favors" for "favors," so ... gotta pic? ; )

[fyi]

Dan - no you didn't!!!!

lol

[Sammy]

The Aruban people should all be held responsible. Instead of protesting the Holloway mother who is there to find her teenage daughter, they should have been out there in DROVES demanding their government and police stop covering up a crime, and demand that they explain how they could let these three boys off in those first crucial hours and instead trying to cover it all up by arresting the two black men. At the very least, those two brothers LIED and they are not even being charged for that. I wish the whole island of Aruba would sink.

[Phantom]

I exchange "favors" for "favors," so ... gotta pic? ; )

Posted by: Dan | July 9, 2005 07:13 PM

Gonna ask for acronyms next? ;)

[mrsJimiHendrix]

see all

sometimes we just "joke" to lighten things up

LOL

DAN

do you want that with or without my Burkha?
what about my Uzzi

:0)x

[mrsJimiHendrix]

phantom said:

"I only came here to post about Natalee Holloway"

Well,

I only came here because i am an opportunist and i see
Dan here as my stepping stone to making it BIG
on Fox and so I can runaway with Shepard Smith!!!

[Phantom]

on Fox and so I can runaway with Shepard Smith!!!

Posted by: mrsJimiHendrix | July 9, 2005 07:35 PM

Oh please. Shepard Smith?

[andy]

Aruba,

The law of physics (psalms and proverbs) refers to the laws of magnetism.

Here's a simple experiment to help you understand; beyond that you need to read articles by Stephan Hawkings. Take any ballon and blow it up into a nice oblong sphere.

Turn on the tap water in your sink and hold the balloon 1 inch or 2.54cm from the water stream and observe the water for ~ 5 seconds. Nothing happens.

Now, turn off the water and rub the ballon on your clothes for ~ minute. While rubbing the ballon on your clothes turn the water on again hold it 1 inch or 2.5cm from the water stream. The water stream should bend towards the balloon.

When you commit a crime you are charged magneticaly; no money; no praying and no blessings can undo it.

A certain church tried prayer but it didn't work, you can not unmagnetize yourself; even with a magnetic becuase it's become part of your spirit.

Andy

[seedyrum]

Maybe I am different than others.

I didnt feel insulted by the trolls. Although none directed anything towards me, I wanted them.

I asked many questions, none gave answers.

I know I have said some pointed and biting things. I wanted comments but more I wanted the truth.

I could have withstood the personal attacks as they didnt know me. So what did I care.

I did take issue with personal attacks Natalee Holloway, nothing in her family and friends suggested those attacks were warranted.

Yes, I did personal attacks on JVDS and PVDS and the Aruba police and even the judicial system.
1 I used JVDS (his words not mine) description, website and behavior to support my attacks

2The same for the father

3The Aruba Police lack of attention for detail, a slow responsivesness,
b taking the word of the last 3 to see NH alive to arrest 2 innocent black men,
c allowing the 3 to roam free for 10 days,
d searching the 2 black men homes immediately while not searching the 3 homes until 10 days later
e making excuses for their slowness
f handcuffing the black men with hands behind their back
g handcuffing Juran with hands in front of him
h the connection of police chief to PVDS
i the lies upon lies upon lies upon lies.

Folks with nothing to hide, hides nothing.

The connection of all the top officials and even Juran.

I reiterate, I asked direct and pointed questions, no troll ever answered me.

I invited differeing views as that how we learn and discuss.

I am not easily offended. Have never been and I wont start now.

People with nothing to hide, hides nothing.

They are an open book, if they want the truth known.

Therein lies our problem, Aruba doesnt want the truth known.

[Dan]

Look back here at 7:55 EST don't be late, or it's gone. Phantom - pic = picture. Old Internet troll line.

Ms. H - Burkha - no. Thigh high stocking - yes. Uzzi - optional.

[Phantom]

Dan, I knew what you meant by "pic".

On some the other boards I post on it's a common request.

That's what I asked if you were going to ask for acronyms next.

[tom tyler the phantom]

mang oh mang, that dan is mean, he's banning everyone, he bans all the good posters and let the bad ones stay.

[mrsJimiHendrix]

PHANTOM

OK

GERALDO THEN!!!!!!

[mrs. MojoRisin']

Hope I don't land on the poopoo list for this....but here goes...

Regardless of the reasons for the banning of Ihop, I do not think it is appropriate to call her names. My take is that Ihop cared passionately about this tragedy, as do many of us. Whether that caused her to overstep boundaries of acceptability, I do not know, nor is it my call to make. But I don't think Ihop is the only person here to have overstepped those boundaries. There a quite a few whimpering here about how badly they have been treated, when in fact, if you look through archives, you will see that these same people have been just as harsh, judgemental and unkind to their fellow posters if not more than Ihop. Personally, I know I have been extremely judgemental and sometimes harsh in dealing with those attacking the Mountain Brook kids. So I'm not innocent either.

Now, I'm not questioning Dan's judgement because I am not privy to what has gone on behind the scenes via email and I do believe this was the main issue considered. But let's keep it real here folks. We all have mixed it up pretty good.

[mrsJimiHendrix]

tt the phantom

this is a good example of why the postings should be private.

why can't dan do what he wants, it is his blog and his dime

obviously whomever wrote this has been banned b/c no one else would care

PS phantom's name is NOT tom or tyler!!

[Phantom]

Hey Dan,

On some boards I've posted on threads drift widely. It's accepted and everyone goes with the flow.

How about a section that sticks to the top where posters can post off topic and miscellaneous stuff?

Could cut down on the off topic stuff in dedicated thread.

[mrs. MojoRisin']

btw...got an email from Greta...think it was for real or just her PA? (We were discussing the white SUV that was photographed in the Van der Sloot's backyard day before yesterday.)

[mrsJimiHendrix]

Mrs MOJO

I agree!!

LET US ALL LEAVE IHOP ALONE NOW.

move forward and let her move forward too.

She did come here with a passion and it was my thought that perhaps she was related to Natalee or her teacher or someone close to the family and that is why i worried so much about people saying mean things about the family and said you never know who is here listening.

Well I hope we can all be friends down the road.

I must go take pictures with my Uzzi for Dan and Geraldo
But don't tell anyone!!

PEACE!!

[wreck]

Thanks Dan! I was able to register for the new "forum." (Love Stevie Ray!)

[mrs. MojoRisin']

One other thing -

I don't think the off-topic posting has been excessive and what has gone on has contributed to building a sense of community. I've only posted here for a couple of weeks and felt immediately accepted by some (mrs. Jimi, tide, Can Girl, Ihop, professor, etc....you know who you are) And I have worked a little bit harder at 'getting to know' others. And some don't want that personal interaction... which is totally cool. But my point is....going 'off-topic' makes this possible!

Come on...we don't want to turn into friggin' AOL now do we?

[Dan]

here phantom better book mark as it is buried a few days back
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/riehl_tower_of_.html

[Dan]

Cool wreck ... gone now .

[Cindi in PA]

Ms. H - Burkha - no. Thigh high stocking - yes. Uzzi - optional.

Posted by: Dan | July 9, 2005 07:46 PM

Would that thigh high stocking be on the leg MrsH is trying to get up? :0)

[Phantom]

here phantom better book mark as it is buried a few days back

posted by: Dan | July 9, 2005 08:11 PM

Thanks Dan. I must've missed it, I was kinda focused on the NH threads.

[andy]

Who's guilty - read Psalms 82. The charge is in the pico range, so you won't notice it; but fate will find you.

[Dan]

Up or untied, Cindi! ;o

Phantom, I meant the chat post, link is above under my name.

[clintcarter]

Genius.
A lord, questioning Sun Tzu about his abilities, wondered if the great military mind would be able to train his concubines to drill as soldiers. Sun Tzu divided them into 2 groups, putting the lord's favorite 2 ladies in charge. He patiently explained how he wanted them to face, and to hold their spears, upon his command. When he began to drill them, they all just giggled. Again he patiently went over each command, 5 times each, and then repeated his drill. The ladies broke down giggling once more. A third time he repeated his review. Giggling. At this, Sun Tzu directed his guards to take the favorite concubines and behead them. "When instructions are given and are not clear, it is the teacher's fault; but when instructions have been made clear, it is the leader's fault," he said.
The lord protested. "My food will not taste as sweet without those two, spare them!"
"You may be sovereign over the land," said Sun Tzu, "but your whims do not extend to proper leadership of the troops". And he had the women beheaded. (Mind, he was just trying out for the job!)
He then appointed the next 2 favorites as leaders, and the drill went very well, everyone having already been instructed.

Nice work, Dan. No need to explain.

[fyi]

I missed the 7:55 Dan....and it self-destructed :-(

When I tried the download.exe, my system kept detecting and deleting a downloader trojan and won't let me open it. This has happened twice in the last two days when trying to open media files. I can't figure out what is going on.

[mrs. MojoRisin']

whoa...clintcarter.

Chilling analogy. I do notice that everyone is picking and choosing their words very carefully on all forums. Lots of 'excuse me but I hope you don't mind if I disagree' going on. Very civilized indeed.