Shut Up And Act

Robert Redford:

But the shock revelation has reminded the actor of the power of the media and the similarities between Bush's secret cover-ups and the Watergate affair.

He says, "There are deep similarities going on but where is the press? where is the press?"

"There is stone-walling, not telling the truth, getting people under wiretaps. The US public continues to be told things that are not true and what worries me is that we have these brave young American guys risking their lives everyday.

Comments

[michele in bham]

The press is too busy making up stories to investigate anything, a la Dan Rathergate.

[Spike]

Redford is an ass. Just another whining liberal.

[Phantom]

Just another washed up, bleeding heart, Hollywood liberal actor trying to regain past glory.

[T_C_Mits]

Talks like an ass. Walks like an ass. Mmmmmm.

[Jan]

Well an ass he may be - but he still is one very good lookin man - so he can say whatever he wants as far as I'm concerned!!

[tideroller]

Jan - I'm almost with you on that one!

[Spike]

Great as Roy Hobbs, the best that ever played the game... but these Hollyweird guys should clam up on the political activism, IMHO.

[TheAlamo]

How sad. I am sad that people who claim to be conservative have no idea what it means. IF you are conservative, it means that EVERYONE, including government should obey the law.
When you "go to war" there should be a declaration BY CONGRESS--of war. NOT a "resolution." If we are fighting "terrorist" infiltration into our country why are the borders WIDE OPEN? If the "terrorists" are really "terrorists" trying to "stop the United States," why haven't oil wells and oil pipelines been blown up? If this "war" was for real then that would be their number one objective---not a few innocent civilians and soldiers.
Why are George Bush senior and Bin Laden senior partners in Carlyle Oil company and NO-One is interested in investigating it? Why is the Bush background oil, and we are fighting "terrorists" only in oil rich countries? You think the criminals in N. Korea, China, don't rank as "terrorists?"
IF we are fighting to save freedom, then why the legislation (illegal I might add) eliminating OUR freedom? See: Patriot Acts I-II.
IF passing laws to "stop terrorism" worked, why do we have 150,000 soldiers, armed with weapons, tanks, Apaches etc., and yet, terrorism occurs there everyday. Maybe they should have a "patriot act."
You can excuse yourself, by saying you are "patriotic" but do you have a son, husband, daughter over there possibly being sacrificed so these neo-fascists can conquer America from within? Easy to cheer, when you have no risk. You, being in a formerly "free" country have the OBLIGATION to know and understand the Constitution...but you don't. Read it. It was written by farmers and merchants--without college degrees. You do not need a "court" to "interpret"---if you can understand english. I strongly advise you to READ the "patriot" act as well. Then read the Enabling Act. What is the Enabling act? It was passed in Germany in 1933, and led to Hitler...and we all know what happened next. In case you haven't read them---the "patriot" act and Enabling Act are almost identical. Now, the criminals in the "supreme?" court have stated that it is okay for one group of people to steal the property of another group if "it is in the best interest of the community." What the hell is the "best interest of the community?"---and WHO decides what is the "best interest of the community?" You better wake up folks. This is EXACTLY the way it went down in Germany.
You can pooh-hoo all you want. But you WILL REMEMBER--if you do nothing.

[kerry_zaputz]

He must be trying to divert attention from his horrible plastic surgery and dyed red hair. Pitiful and attention-seeking behavior.

[true justice]

Remember The Alamo!

[Sam]

I coudn't agree with you more The Alamo. Hard to believe that half of our country are a bunch of biblethumping, gaybashing, minority-bashing, anti-choice idiots. Of course, since most of them never travel overseas even if they can afford it, and just maybe can't read to actually see that our founding fathers insisted on a separation of church and state, its not all that surprising that we ended up with someone like Bush in the White House. You can't be a Christian AND be pro-war. If Jesus is looking down at us, you can imagine how horrified he is to see Bush disregard anyone who is not a psycho right wing Christian bloodthirsty for Arab blood, or see how Bush twisted the words of the Pope. The pope was avidly anti-war in Iraq and told Bush he should instead respect the "culture of life." Bush then stole the phrase to use regarding abortion, not minding at all that he has murdered hundreds of thousands in the Middle East whom had nothing to do with 9-11. My prayer every night is that along with Osama Bin Laden, that Bush will someday be arrested for crimes against humanity. What a glorious day that will be. Imagine THAT cover on TIME magazine.!

[sleuth]

Sam and the alamo, you are entitled to your opinion though it is extreme to group all conservatives into your definitions. But, you are certainly entitled to print it where ever you can.

You can call me conservative for believing in God, or for supporting the government...hey, I supported Clinton, too. But your rhetoric bores me.

[satchmo]

The circus of a disappeared white girl, sent to an island where drugs, alcohol, gambling and sex are the big interests, compared to the fraud of government headed by George Bush, and the winner is the mystery of the white chick.

Everyone knows that Bush and most of his predecessor Presidents have been giving the US population a good a** f**king, so that is not news. Dan, you need to find something else exciting. Forget government and its usual plunder of the populus.

[TheAlamo]

Satchmo:
If you "forget it"---it won't go away.

[Cindi in PA]

I have a better idea for a Time Magizine cover.
REPUBLICAN PARTY now has someone they can run against. The democrats finally come up with a candidate that stands for something.

Separation of Church and State, when did the government take control of our Church?

[satchmo]

If I forget it or remember it, there is little difference. What real power do I have to defend myself against this group of thugs that call themselves government? Vote, h**l, they give me a list of themselves and ask me to choose one of them to represent me. I have two choices, the people of the former USSR had one choice on the ballot. Pleast don't tell me to vote as a way to escape from this plunder.

[Rhod]

The Alamo and Sam prove at least two points about their kind...left or paleoconservative. There's a perverse streak of Puritanism infected with an impenetrable snobbery and a view on the world that springs eternal from 17th century Salem. Sam, in particular, is one of those spiritually prideful clowns who doesn't know yet whether he wants to crucify everyone who fails to think as he does, or teach them to read. He's also one of those open-minded dopes who thinks that Osama Bin Laden and Bush are equivalent simply because he, Sam, disagrees with the Iraq War. And Sam, learn to read the documents you claim to understand. The Establishment Clause says nothing about the Sep of Ch and St. You're a jackass. Don't lecture unless you know what the fuck you're talking about.

The Alamo is a wired and weird pamphleteer who sees bugs crawling through his history books into today's newspapers, and would be mute if it wasn't for the device of quotation marks to make points that he can't make any other way. Hey Alamo, quotation marks are not inserted to indicate cynicism, disbelief or sarcasm. The rest? Well, the Patriot Act has lots of flaws, but I wouldn't immolate myself in protest over it. And Alamo, learn something about Islamofascism and the Third Jihad. Also, I have three sons in this war, you miserable shit, you stupid fucking moron, and they are not being sacrificed, they're defending turds like you so you can shoot your fucking mouth off on a blog. We're at war, you ignoramus. Islamofascism has declared war on The West.

As for Redford, Jane Fonda stroked him because she thought he was cute, and Paul Newman patronized him because he thought he was smart. That's where it all started.

[barbara]

great post, rhod, you took all the words out of my mouth. My dad was killed on D-Day in the Normandy invasion, and it's people like him and your kids that keep this country free, and gives any fonda nut the RIGHT to say what they think(?) no matter what. What other country would they care to go to and spout off? These euro wannabes make me sick. And you, "alamo" are a disgrace to the shrine of liberty. Barbara from san antonio

[Cindi in PA]

Barbara,

My sister has a home in SA and lives in Rio Medina, what a beautiful city and state. My daughter and I were there this past April during the festival on the River Walk, it was awesome and the folks were so friendly. I love your state, scorpions and all lol.

I do wonder if Sam or Alamo have given a thought to all that came to help at the Alamo, kind of doubt that though, if the did, they would not be bitching about our forces defending the right of the people of Iraq for the same desired freedom.

Sounds to me like they are only interested in themselves. GOD bless your family serving. I have a nephew who is a marine in Iraq, my best friend is Airfoce in Iraq and his wife Special Forces in Afghanistan. As well as my 17 yr old son who upon graduation next June will give up a chance to attend a University he so looked forward to going too. They all realize they are there to defend the freedom of the people, not for oil. I resent the fact that some say that is the reason, it discredits the intelligence of those serving, to believe our service members could be so foolish. Thank God your family understood the message of freedom. It's not just about us.

[Rhod]

Thank you Barbara. I think I lost it, which was stupid of me as well. The Alamo makes points I agree with, but Sam is just one of those vicious, vile lefties who wraps himself in a quirky kind of sewer trout Christianity, mixes it up with lefty politics, and thinks he's a genius on top of it. No apology to you, Sam. You're just a posturing fool with no understanding of any of the issues you fumble with, particularly your nasty little version of Christianity.

The Alamo, for what it's worth, I regret the language and the accusations, but that's all. You couldn't be more wrong about so many things, and maybe you can sort some of it out someday. Get a grip on your claims to the "sacrifice" our soldiers are making, and understand that they view it much differently than you do. They are neither fools nor pawns, and you scorn and revile them with your implications. I resent it for them, and I resent it for myself and fellow veterans of another nasty war we fought in.

Everything you've said was said thirty-five years ago, but in another context...all the moombat conspiracy theorizing, for one, and the simplistic ideas that the absence of something means it doens't exist. This is the worst part of your rant. It doesn't happen so it isn't there. Whatever. Sorry about the language.

And Barbara. I know something about war, and what your Dad certainly went through is unimaginable to me. Nothing can relieve the loss, not years, not words, not memorials or thanks. Nothing. We all share it though, even if it doens't help. Thank you.

[Rhod]

...one more thing to our cosmopolitan, world traveller Sam. I don't give a damn what your passport looks like, you clown. I could match you mile for mile, country for country, language for language, and study for study and not break a sweat.

If in some corner of your dark little dungeon of a brain, you think that your air miles have given you a fragment of sophistication, understanding, nuance or polish, just read your silly little screed over again.

It reads like some parochial snot who reads preservation magazines, lefty journals and makes weathervanes on a scroll saw and calls them folk art.

Screw you.

[true justice]

Boy, is this a bashing thread! Think you people are losing it! Don't get so riled up. Just talk normal and discuss things without mutual bashing. Sorry, this thread's not for me. I like to discuss ideas in a rational manner, not just badger those who don't agree with me or with whom I don't agree.

[Noelle]

It is a shame Sam and The Alamo that people in general refuse to READ or LISTEN what you (we) have to say. Don’t stop though; there are people out there who listen to what you have to say. My husband and most people in his troop are like-minded.

Congrats Rhod with having 3 kids fighting for freedom out there in this crazy world. I hope they come home. My husband did not. Oh and dear Rhod ....the only difference with the ignorant yet ever judge MENTAL religious right in the USA and the "Islamofascism and the Third Jihad" is that the USA is in fact the country that carries weapons of mass destruction. [sigh] (Please educate yourself and read up on what Jihad stands for… it is as misused by terrorists as the words in the bible are by religious ‘freaks’)

Barbara, Rhod….. Your ignorance is astounding! Big mouths about Iraq and not one word about Darfur. Shame on you!

And Cindy: "Separation of Church and State, when did the government take control of our Church?" You took my breath away! Are YOU what my husband died for? I hope not.

Rhod you have serious issues! Ever thought of actually picking up a rifle YOURSELF and put your money where YOUR BIG MOUTH IS!? Nope to busy hiding behind a computer and spreading POISON I guess! Rhod: Shame on you! I hope my husband did not die to save your ignorant bottom. (Keep hiding behind the fact that your kids are out there though! I am sure you can get a lot of mileage out of that one!)

Sorry to leave this interesting discussion for what it is. I have to go to my 5 year old son who spent the 4th of July watching fire works without his dad. He has a hard time falling asleep because HIS DAD IS NOT COMING BACK from a war in Iraq.

Barbara, Rhod & like minded voices... this is what my husband wrote before he died ... it is a quote by M.L. King :
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
He ended with this quote:
"the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do." ~Samuel P. Huntington

My husband died for what he believed could be a better world.

Noelle Spicer

[Cindi in PA]

Noelle,

Get off your band wagon, you husband made a choice, deal with it. And lets hope any american would fight for separation of church and state, should that ever come to be a reality. But as of this moment it is not.

[icequeen]

BRAVO NOELLE! HOW MANY SENATORS OR CONGRESSMEN HAVE SONS IN IRAQ?
YOU CAN COUNT THEM ON ONE HAND, RIGHT RHOD AND BARBARA?
QUITE CORRECT, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR IGNORANCE!

[icequeen]

BRAVO NOELLE! HOW MANY SENATORS OR CONGRESSMEN HAVE SONS IN IRAQ?
YOU CAN COUNT THEM ON ONE HAND, RIGHT RHOD AND BARBARA?
QUITE CORRECT, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR IGNORANCE!

[TheAlamo]

I say again, how sad. First of all I have a son in the army in Iraq-right now. I DO support our soldiers because it is NOT THEIR CHOICE to be where they are. Secondly, everyone of you "bashers" did not answer ONE statement I made with anything FACTUAL--THUS showboating your own ignorance. Do not feel bad about this, most Americans have no idea what their own constitution says--like you, nor do they understand what a "christian" is--and it definitely is not Bushlander.
WHEN YOU HAVE SOME FACTS, come back, but until then name calling, and juvenile childish bashing does not make your point. If you are adult enough, go back through the points I made and REFUTE them with FACT. You can't of course, so you resort to childish name calling "patriotic" ensembles and the like. My son IS in Iraq... is yours?
He is with 3rdID in Bagdhad. Where is yours? Partying, no doubt, just like we did when our friends were dying in Vietnam.
Unfortunately, and sadly, I know what I am talking about. I just wish you could all be laughing at me 10 years from now. Unfortunately history is in the making, and you will turn your head until it is too late. Sadly, the blood of many may be on your shoulders. As far as those who have to use profanity and names I have a little something for you---GFY.
Rock on losers!

[TheAlamo]

Oh, to the idiot that does not know where the Alamo is. I AM in San Antonio--that's where the Alamo is. Probably a good idea if you took a geography course.

[TheAlamo]

This is SPECIAL TO rhod.

Yeah I have a son in Iraq too. Does that give you or me some kind or "royal" privilege? If your son or mine dies for this lie, then perhaps you won't be so smug. I wink when I see name callers like you, because you have no substance to your arguments--simply because you blindly follow the powers that be. YOU answered NOTHING I said with ANY facts--because you can't. IF you knew anything of the founding of this nation, then you would know that those who did so, DID NOT blindly follow the powers that be.
I am a free market, person. One day, you should study it. It is the ONLY system that will work. Government control has ALWAYS failed and it is again failing--go check your gas prices. Government, when under control of monopolies does--just what our gov. is doing. Monopolists favor either fascism or communism. Wake up rocket scientist--monopolists control YOUR country--you do not. Try running for president without the support of the monopolists--right! Sacrifice your sons and mine--for what? PROFITS, my friend--profits. DEMOCRACY in iraq? As soon as we leave--it will be business as usual. If we do not leave then it will be an ongoing place of hell--just like it is now. BTW genius--NAME ONE COUNTRY that has defeated a guerilla force---it HAS NEVER HAPPENED. These idiots are not only a guerilla force, but they don't mind blowing themselves up to make their point---as long as it is not on an oil well or on the Afghan pipeline. Of course, you don't consider this aspect do you? Maybe they are just too "dumb" to figure the oil wells and pipeline have any value. Talk about dumb? Please..., go study some before you come back and make a larger fool of yourself than you already have.

[justguessing]

I agree with Mr. Redford.

[TheAlamo]

Strangely quiet. Amazing what happens when you ask for facts.
Go study Thomas jefferson, Fredric Bastiat. READ the constitution., Then come back, and my guess is that we will probably be much closer to being on the same page. And...probably on the same team!

[Sam]

It comes down to this:
Some wars must be fought, such as WW II. Iraq is no WWII. Hussein may be as evil as Hitler was but we aren't there because of 9-11. We are there for Halliburton and oil. Period. One of our own leaders just said this week on ABC that we know where Osama is but that we must respect Pakistani sovereignty. Give me a break! Why aren't we going after Osama then? Because it serves Bush to have a country in shackles of fear.

More than half of this country -close to 60 % - support a woman's right to choose. Yet, Bush, believing he is being driven by God, wants to overturn this right. Bush is supposed to be a president for all, and not running his government from the far right.

Anyway, the reality is that far more Democrats than Republicans do better financially. I'm only bringing this up because in many of the Red States people are voting against their own interests. What are these Red staters going to do when theres no real social security, their children have to pay the highest debt in our nation's history? Bush sends our sons and daughters to war, and then slashed their benefits this past year - on the very same day that he went to speak at Fort Bragg! Whether you are Christian or Buddhist or Muslim, if you aren't a billionaire, he doesn't care a damn about you or your childrens future. He cares only about his pocketbook and power. There are so many honest, good Christian Republicans- so WHY would you elect Bush? You are either cruel or just plan dumb.

[TheAlamo]

Sam...we are on the same page for the most part.
But...they had no choice but to elect Bush, since our "impartial" media chooses NOT to cover any other parties but the demo-repub cartel. Since most all of them get their news from the MSM, then they know nothing about the real Bush or the fact that there is no difference between republicans and democrats.
If Bush is a christian then why an illegal war? Why cut military benefits during time of war? Why close 33 bases? Why did the wounded have to pay for their own meals until it was brought out publicly? By their fruits....
We are at an important juncture in this country's history. IF we allow the things continue to happen that have happened in the last 10-12 years under Klinton and Bushlander, we soon will no longer be a republic...hell, we won't even be a democracy. But, hey, the news says everything is OKAY....so it must be true.
Sam...hope you and yours had a great 4th, and hopefully we will have a few more before these fascists get total control. Where are George Patton and Douglas MacArthur when you need them?

[clintcarter]

Why is it that if you do not agree with the path America is taking in Iraq you are not a patriot? Some of the greatest Americans got that way by standing up and being counted when they thought this country needed to go in a different direction. I'm sick of people who use the sacrifice our young men and women are making to bolster their own agendas and shut down all others. The same was done with 9/11 to justify invading Iraq, despite not a single Iraqi being involved. At war with Islamofascism? Just great, our fascists fighting their fascists and the world going to hell in a handbasket. SHAME! We need to use our power to set a leadership example for the world, and we will never do that OR defeat terrorism by killing noncombatants by the thousands while singing God Bless America. Support our troops! Bring them home now! Iraq is a frigging mess and Bin Laden roams free. SHAME!

Brian Carter

[chrys]

One thing I keep seeing in this type of "air-space." No one fits your "molds" - no one fits the "Dem" everyone's the same generalizations. The best move our country could make is to do away with the "party" system and allow candidates to run on what THEY truly believe - not under "blanket" descriptions, as in some of these comments. i.e. (a sam comment) a Christian wouldn't . . . ?!?! Well - Dang - Maybe a good Catholic shouldn't be Democrat since their faith is so anti-abortion?!?

You see - no one fits this "silly" party line program. I could go on and on - just wanted to say Redford's been in too many movies!! Fairytales are nice, like in the movies everything gets solved by nice people in trouble - it would be wonderful if people in other countries where able to talk and decide as we do in the U.S. - even when there is no root of agreement - the discussion stays safe.

People in other parts of the world are so surprisingly different in attitude (lived in Korea and Germany - didn't just visit). We were very civilized in the way we handled the first Trade Center attack and these people just became more resolved and actually stated that they attacked because we wouldn't do anything.

Most people in the U.S. just don't have a good handle on the way these people think (I wish I knew better myself) we haven't run into this total surface, hair-trigger hatred with the only desire being murder of an entire group of people they've never met, let alone know how we feel toward them.

I stop here before I get carried away - you've got your ideas and none of them are wrong. Unfortunately, if we sit and be good neighbors - other civilizations grab this time to plan our death. And this is not a two hour movie!

[noelle spicer]

To Cindi:
You stupid cow. You stupid ignorant sad cow.
Did you tell Barbara from San Antonio that the death of her father was a choice? Did you tell her to DEAL WITH IT? Nope.... instead you are telling us that 'your sister lives in San Antonio' ... time to go back to scrapbooking Cindi and leave those who do want to see a postive change in the world alone.

As far of the seperation of church and state in the USA goes..... if you cant see it.... you are a blind cow as well.
On behalf of my son, 2 daughters and my inlaws: My husband died to get looneys like you out of the woodwork... at least now we can identify you...
Noelle,

Alamo & Sam: Keep it up! It is rather quiet now isnt it with factless replies? Just because they are loud ... DOES NOT MEAN they are RIGHT ehm... CORRECT.

[Rhod]

Oh my God. A SPECIAL to Rhod. It's silent because I went to bed, Alamo.

Your Special Edition is a collection of wierd hallucinations about monopolies, big business, oil, the powerless little guy and all the rest that makes up the paranoid world view of a guy like you. This armor is impenetrable, and says nothing about the "facts", but about the pathology that makes up your world view. I couldn't get through with a jack hammer. I learned a long time ago that someone so knee-deep, as you are, in the mud of error and misconception, can never be convinced of something you have already dismissed.

It's necessary to say that my education is in Constitutional Law, and in order to prevent your prancing around about my mention of it as an expression of my arrogance, let's just say this...

You don't know a Preamble from a Principle, so don't lecture me about the document. about Jefferson or the framework that holds this country together. It's a subject much more complicated than your ability to comprhend.

The situation in Iraq is a counter-insurgency aggravated by the nihilism and suicidal impulses of the offenders. I have no idea what to make of you shouting about guerillas. This is not an argument. You only add it as another layer of strangeness in your point of view.

All the rest is impossible to address.

In re your son with the 3rd ID. If he enlisted, then he had a choice to be where he is. You claim that he had none. Militaries go where they're sent.

Noelle: There is nothing that can alleviate your loss. But when does the absence of an unrelated comment add up to ingorance. Who was talking about Darfur? Would you have wanted your husband to go there? Darfur is the biggest human calamity so far this century, and it originates in the dark heart of the UN and the unwillingness of the Western World to fight for Africa. AND, you should stay off the topic of Darfur because it is related to the festering problems of Islamism throughout the world, of which the Iraq war is a part. You can't have it both ways.

And to the rest of you who seem to think that the pre-911 world is still there simply because you want it, the world is about to set itself ablaze.
There is something terrible brewing across the Middle East, in Indonesia and the Phillipines, in Latin America, in NOrth America and Europe and across the Urals and on the fringes of China.

It is anti-modern, brutal, suicidal, as vicious and convinced of itself as any of the totalitarian systems that challenged the West in the past 100 years. Wherever it exists, it's perverse religiosity generates terror, abuse of women and children, death in unimaginable ways, backwardness, and the cultivation of the worst in human nature. It encompasses all the strange and reduced ideas of European fascism, mixes them with religious authoritarianism, and has the weapons and will to force them down your throats and mine.

I'm sick of the quaint arrogance, ignorance and hardened superiority of people like Noelle and Sam and The Alamo and all the grandstanders who clap their hands when they hear the same chants. Don't tell me to "wake up" or accuse me of having "serious issues". Your world is gone forever, and until you recongize it, you'll waltze through your fools' paradise while your country is set on fire around you.

[Rhod]

Noelle:

I need to comment on the loss of your husband in Iraq.

Whenever the Chickenhawk argument, or some variation, is raised, the result is the bitterness and pain we see on this blog. Alamo, like so many others, use it as club. That is, if you have no stake in this war, you also have no credibility, and the only standard is a dead son or some other grief-ridden event. This is stupid and cynical, and I am sick to death of it. If Alamo's arguments stand on their own, he doesn't need this wicked nonsense to underline them.

Wars are sometimes necessary, I think, and the casualties alter us individually and permanently, which then magnifies the awfulness of the war for anyone close to it. But the issue of the war's legitimacy are not connected to our grief. Wars are usually waged by wretched people for evil reasons, but that doesn't describe America.

I have two sons in the 101st and one in the 82nd, and I served with the 25th in Vietnam, but all of this is irrelevant and meaningless. Alamo as a son in the 3rd ID, which is also meaningless to the extent that it reinforces his ideas about America today and the war, specifically. But he couldn't resist bring it up.

I don't want Generals running the entire show. General Westmoreland ran my show in spite of what we think about Johnson and MacNamara, and the slaughter was unimaginable. It's easy for me to think that your husband multiplied by 57,000 is the measure of Vietnam, but it isn't. The issues are separate.

Nothing I can say can lift this burden, nor do you want it from me. I think your husband's sacrifice went toward permanent and necessary changes in the monstrous environments in the Middle East and the cess pools of hate and murder that breed more of them. We don't need to agree on this, but he's a hero to me and his loss will someday be vindicated here and abroad. Thank you.

[clintcarter]

"Also, I have three sons in this war, you miserable shit, you stupid fucking moron, and they are not being sacrificed, they're defending turds like you so you can shoot your fucking mouth off on a blog. We're at war, you ignoramus."
"Get a grip on your claims to the "sacrifice" our soldiers are making, and understand that they view it much differently than you do." ???????

"I think your husband's sacrifice went toward permanent and necessary changes in the monstrous environments in the Middle East and the cess pools of hate and murder that breed more of them." ???????

Well, RHOD, is it a sacrifice or isn't it? OR do you just make whatever statement is expedient to further YOUR hateful agenda? By invading Iraq we have only reinforced the growing perception in the Middle East and elsewhere that America is looking to do battle with the Islamic world in general and has limited interest in finding the perpetrators of 9/11.
"Cess pool of hate"? Re-read YOUR diatribe! Good God, man; don't you own a mirror?
A never-ending, unwinnable war; what an awful legacy to leave our children. We're the most powerful nation in the world and our only option is to drop bombs on villages and machine gun neighborhoods because once again we can't tell friend from foe? SHAME!

[Sally]

Clintcarter: You are so right and you are so valuably needed in Iraq this very moment. So please, please pack your stuff, and go over there asap. There are plenty of organizations there like Red Cross and CARE. In fact, ALL of you whom agree with Clintcarter- by all means, go as fast as you can. If we can empty the USA of all of you uneducated, pseudo-Christian, psycho fuckheads, maybe we can actually start rebuilding this slice of North America again. gogogo! and good luck to you!

[Rhod]

clintcarter:

I am disgusted by my own words in the first post; I have apologized and regret them. The issue involved in them seems to leave you cold. Who cares? This has nothing to do with you, nor does it make your foolish comments any more insightful, intelligenct or true.

It's amazing to me that one truth in all this seems beyond your capacity to comprehend. The Middle East has been a snake pit of anti-modernism since, at least, the British tore it apart and rendered it incapable of modern thinking.

The events of 911 were not the precipitating event, it was the culmination of something which had been fermenting since, in our view, 1978, when Leon Klinghoffer was pushed overboard in a wheel chair by those guys who got angry at us in 2001. That's the logic in your world.

Since 1978 there were at least 37 acts of terrorism directed at The West in general, but American in particular, with 800 or more people killed by Islamists, mostly Americans. Is this enough to satisfy your lunacy for fairness, or does it have to be eight million before we recognize the process. Answer that!

The catalogue of events leading up to the invasion of Iraq, however clear, would mean nothing to you. Why? Because people like you live in a perpetual present tense, where everything is static, nothing relates to anything else, nothing is dynamic, nothing every changes, and every event is a new day to practice your sanctimony. You represent the comfortable pacifism of the superior observer.

Islamofascism is abroad in every Middle Eastern country; it is the structural weakness in Islam and Wahabbism which combines with the urges to fascism and the horrors of every primitive Islamic culture on earth. I REPEAT. IT IS A STRUCTURAL WEAKNESS IN ISLAM, NOT ISLAM!

Following your path is the never-ending unwinnable war of your worst imaginings. Your last sentence is the silliness of the moral preener who would watch your own world torn apart and destroyed by the nihilistic, brutal murderers abroad in the land, and you wouldn't lift a self-righteous finger to stop them. Yes, I have a mirror,and I'm holding it up to you.

[Rhod]

clintcarter:

Have you looked in the mirror? Now I want to ask you something. I want to ask the man whose moral hackles bristle at some inexcusable profanity.

How much is enough for you? How many body parts strewn in American streets? How many drowned cripples or Americans blown out of the skies is enough? How many American sailors beaten to death on airplanes or blown up in their Navy bunks is enough? How many American advisors skinned-alive in Lebanon or Jordan is enough?

How many Carter and Clinton-financed catamites for Arafat is enough, or poverty-stricken Palestinians because of the rotten Palestinian Authority is enough? How many behaded, burqua-ed women is enough, or brutalized adolescents boys and girls? How many vile Egyptian anti-Semites is enough? How many mass graves? How many piles of amputated limbs and tongues, gouged eyeballs and bloody entrails vomited from industrial shredders is enough? How much theft of American aid is enough? How many suicide bombers in pizza parlors? How many gassed Kurds?

How many murdered Theo Van Goghs is okay with you?
How many Madrassas, how many fallen buildings, how many tortured hostages, how many arranged marriages, murdered adulteresses and cliterectomies is enough? How many hangings of retarded teenagers is okay? How many murdered, tortured and raped black Christians by Islamists is enough for you? HOW MUCH MURDER AND MAYHEM IS OKAY WITH YOU BEFORE THE WEST NEEDS TO INTERVENE?

How much, clintcarter? I could go on, but that that should give you room to decide which is worse. Whether I am vulgar, or the Islamic world has gone mad. Which is worse? A moral paragon like you should have the answer.

[TheAlamo]

Rhod....rhod, rhod

You have an amazing ability to use 1000 words to say nothing. My degree is in history and government---whoopdie doo! Credentialists such as yourself are the reason the world is in such a state...but, I digress. You say the Constitution is too complicated for us to understand? Then, you are obviously of the ilk that has a need to "interpret" it to mean and say something other than what it does. IF you are a "constitutional scholar" as you seem to imply then you already know that one of the struggles in writing and adopting the document was to make sure the common man could easily read and understand it. But...hey, you're a scholar, so you know better.
So rocket scientist explain the "deep" meaning, and interpret a portion for us will you please. What do the words "keep" and "bear" mean to you? I am sure you can find some hidden meaning that is different than what the "regular folk" believe it to be. (don't even bother with that militia stuff--it is old and we don't buy it)
You clowns are all the same. Long diatribes with absolutely no substance. I will give you credit for a decent vocabulary, but that hardly qualifies you for anything else. You also have the ability to spew out verbage that is empty and meaningless in your attempt to hide your confusion and ignorance. You throw out innuendos about the knowledge of others then make a "qualified?" statement like this--I quote you: "It encompasses all the strange and reduced ideas of European fascism, mixes them with religious authoritarianism, and has the weapons and will to force them down your throats and mine." You obviously have no idea what you are talking about here. You do not even have an idea what fascism is, because if you did then you would recognize it--and its fruits. So just explain this to me. HOW do these camel jockeys intend to come over here and "ram it down our throats?" they have no nvey idiot. Yeah, thanks to your hero, our borders are STILL wide open so they may come in and do some damage. But CONQUER US? Get a grip. They have you all "feared" out.
You are a sad person with no ability, so you attempt to hide behind a long diatribe of meaningless dribble and hollow name calling.
Speaking of not being able to "interpret" where did you get the idea my son was forced to go to Iraq? Yeah, he was in the army when this mess began and he follows orders just like any good soldier. So what? That makes his or any soldier's death okay? It would be a good idea if you did not drink or smoke whatever you do before you post. You have the glaring ability to brazenly show off your ignorance and stupidity in such a state. Go study some, come up with some REAL FACTS instead of your opinions and blabble then maybe I will talk to you. Until then, all you have done here is show that you cannot tell a fascist from a clown (hint: check mirror). Good luck You need it!

[TheAlamo]

Hey Rhod,
Since you are such a scholar, please explain what the Jackson decision (1943) did to protect the entire bill of rights---and, what this administration has done void that decision. We wait for your expertise....... to show, or not!

[Rhod]

TheAlamo:

One thousand words of saying nothing might be preferable to one thousand words of self-praise and incoherence, Alamo. Avoid the lectures on fascism, too, that you learned in Government 101. Among those features is undifferentiated rage, scapegoating, ritualistic obediance to The Law, all of which remind me of you. I really find your rants about the Constitutional embarrasssing. And "camel jockeys"?

What is your last post? A test? Without reference to case briefs, the only thing that comes to mind is the Pledge of Allegiance case. So what? Is this your argument against the war?
I think Jackson also had some interesting ideas in Brown v. Board, too, but since you used the expression "camel jockeys", maybe you also disagree with Brown V. Board. Thanks for the lesson. I don't live and breathe this stuff like you do. I have a life, and I can see the view beyond the window.

You might have a good mind. I don't know, because it's so buried in sarcasm, irony and sneering superiority. I aplogized for my profanity and vulgarity, but I'm not sure why. My sons aren't pawns. I also did not use the word "forced" to describe the means by which your son went to Iraq. You did. Soldiers do what they're ordered to do, and many, if not most, would agree that this is the roll of the dice. You hate the war and practically everything else, which is not indicative of everyone else's mood or opinion.

I have no desire to argue with you anymore. It's useless, chiefly because you have no intention to exchange opinions, and are so thoroughly convinced of your conclusions that I have no expectation that we can agree on anything.

Again, my profanity was inexcusable. The rest I stand by.

[TheTruth]

The Alamo,

You're an idiot. What a generic-liberal-media-spoon-fed rant, that has absolutely no merit whatsoever. Stop wasting your breath, and go mingle with Michael Moore and Tim Robbins.

[TheTruth]

Noelle,

You say Rhod is "spreading poison"?!? Are you kidding me?? Ever heard of the one with the pot and the kettle, Noelle? Get real, you are the one preaching negativity... and falsely, at that. Not one point of yours holds ANY water when you break it down intelligently, and actually KNOW the reality and merits behind the claims you make. It is the trendy substance of the simple-minded ignorant left, driven by movie stars and singers... both of which I've always thought were the pillars of politics and deep thought. /sarcasm

You get so blinded by your angst and cynicism, that you lose all sight of common sense and reality. Your husband CHOSE to serve the country, and YOU CHOSE to be with him. From a member of a long-standing military family, many of which have lost their lives at war, my sympathy goes out to you, but your views (driven by the loss of your husband) are way off, and are FAR from reality.

[TheTruth]

"You might have a good mind. I don't know, because it's so buried in sarcasm, irony and sneering superiority... I have no desire to argue with you anymore. It's useless, chiefly because you have no intention to exchange opinions, and are so thoroughly convinced of your conclusions that I have no expectation that we can agree on anything." -Rhod

VERY well said, Rhod! That seems to be the case for the vast majority of the extreme left, there is no such thing as a debate or conversation when it comes to those types of close-minded people. Their mind is already made up, they are 100% correct, and there is ZERO room for debate or dialogue.

Well said throughout this entire thread actually, Rhod, right on.

[TheAlamo]

That's what I thought. It seems as Rhod and TheTruth are one and the same. Shame on you.
You have also failed the test on your self qualification as a constitutional "scholar" in that it is obvious you know nothing about the Jackson decision. IF you were a constitutional scholar, then this case would have been paramount.
Oh well...thought it might have been interesting, but...whatever you and "the truth?????" say is truth...obviously isn't. Good luck.

[Noelle Spicer]

Thank you so much TheAlamo ....

sooooo Rhod or should I say TheTruth ... true colors after all huh?

You CHOSE not to be JUST A LOSER no no no ... you went for the MEGA LOSER OPTION!!!! and you deserve it!
It is SAD... people like yourself who give this country a BAD NAME!!!

You can play in the sandbox with two other losers ... GW and KR ... nothing like a box of losers .....
(Just a 'bummer' that there are a bunch of kids in a REAL Middle Eastern Sandbox defending SAD IGNORANT LOSERS like you.)

Sooo glad The Alamo revealed your sad a**.
SHAME ON YOU!

"the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do." ~Samuel P. Huntington

(not bitter due to the loss of my husband but bitter because people like Rhod/TheTruth abuse his life, his believes and verything he stood for!)
Noelle

ps 1 Sam, The Alamo, ClintCarter .... thanks!Keep the truth out there! Robert Redford was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Back to the true discussion though ... :"the power of the media and the similarities between Bush's secret cover-ups and the Watergate affair."
.....again we are diverting the attention dear readers ... again there is not one freakin journalist willing to step out of the damn box and come out with the truth .....