Pond To Be Drained

An unconfirmed report has come in that states MSNBC is reporting that there are plans to drain a pond near the raquetball club. Developing.

Update: Report confirmed. The pond is said to be being drained based upon reports from one of the new witnesses.

Comments

[Kay]

I heard that on the Abrams Report also Dan!

Thanks keep us up to date!

[LornaD]

This is curious as I said on the other thread.

Wouldn't Equusearch have checked out this pond already? A body in a pond should be easy for the sonar or the divers to find, I would think.

Could it be for evidence? Or just to show they are doing something?

[Kelly3]

Does anyone know if this pond was looked at by the team from Texas?

[Eugene Bernat]

I do not believe they will find anything. The "re-enactment" was poorly done as it occurred in the afternoon daylight when the original incident occurred in the darkness of night. I also doubt the gardener’s story, because what he is saying strains any person’s creditability. Eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable of all and he wants us to believe he could in a brief second identify at night on a dark road three boys as being there, the car and Natalee not being there. It strains any person’s creditability.

Eugene Bernat

[bamaguy11]

Eugene,

"Eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable"

Yeah, hearsay and suspect statements are the way to go.

[terps]

Dan/Anyone -- They drained a pond in this area early on. Do you know if this is the same one?

[annie]

I remember Tim stating that they only searched areas that they were informed to search by the Aruban LE so it is likely they never searched this particular pond.

[Dan]

Different Pond Terps I am fairly certain. Unless they suspect body was moved yet again.

[turtle]

What? Surely the Aruban Air Force checked this out already during the fly-overs.

[evil]

Even though it is somewhat encouraging that maybe there is some hope of finding out what really happened. Where in the hell has this guy been? Living under a rock? Maybe a million dollars makes you remember stuff.I guess that is why they put the money up cause with all the corruption an "keep'n it down home cuz", corruption breeds greed.People who would not blame one of their own might do that for the right price.

[The RealPackerFan]

I read what Dan posted about witnesses at CNN.com but they also had the report of another witness the PI talked to who said Kalpoes and JVS were in and out of that racquet club three times that night (and she lives nearby). I suspect draining the pond has more to do with this witness, why were the in and out of there that many times, how well could she see, did she see them outside the car in a certain area, etc.

[bamaguy11]

evil

Agree
enough money will loosen lips

btw, "keep it down home cuz" you sound like a southerner.

[Hopefloats]

What if they are not searching for a body but for evidence of the cleanup like a bag of dirty clothes, towels etc. Could be tools used for digging also. Just a thought.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Abrams report on MSNBC that just aired re "gardener witness" "racquet club" "draining pond"

-- will be aired again at 12 midnight pacific time.

I have it on DVR recording now.

If anyone has a question I would "rewind" it and check if requested on a limited basis of course.
But go ahead and ask if you want. You can e mail (click on my name below) to me 'cause I'm not always reding every post. I am trying to get some other work done after 2 months!

[ExGman]

The other pond drained was nearly the Marriott, and the coast. The tennis club and its nearby pond is more inland.

[kerrilynn212]

How far away from the beach where they took Joran twice is this racquet club/nightclub? I know they said it was across from the Marriot, but did Joran walk through this area when he did his visits with the LE?

Makes you wonder why they were walking on the beach twice, if they were never even there!

I am so confused!

[annie]

On the flyovers by the F-16's, I recall that it was reported they were not searching the entire island, but only a few specific areas that the Aruban LE asked them to search. So they basically were a worthless effort because we know the LE was sending everyone on a wild goose chase before.

[concerned parent]

From what I've read, this pond was previously only checked with search dogs.

[kescah]

IF the body was once buried in the sand way away from the Racquet Club as Miller believes, I doubt it was brought back to the hotel area and thrown in the pond. I suspect that maybe Joran knew of tools in or near the club that he could use.

[PinkCobrazz]

Well I guess there is nothing wrong with
"hoping" maybe someone does actually know where
Natalee is...but at this point..I'd put more
money on one of us "guessing" or finding a clue..
before I'd put money on the gardener.

Heck..3 bucks and a bottle of hooch may of
convinced the gardener..he actually did see
something!! And then next week..he will
probably say..I didn't see em do it..but I had
a dream it happened..doesn't that count?

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

ANNIE re: F16 flyovers
I really don't believe the F16 visit actually had anything to do with looking for NH.

I am a pilot and have spent > 300 hours flying at low altitudes 500- 5,000 ft. in slow moving single engine prop planes. I couldn't even find my own house easily at times --from 800 ft at 70 mph., knowing what I was looking for!!

1- How could you expect to see, from ~1,000 ft above, a small outline of a body most likely partially burried -(Tim Miller had to sift sand)- or submerged - on a 75 yard strip of film analyzed in a day or so?

2- They made many (at least 15 at first) passes to "map" the whole island so they would have many of those strips to analyze.

3- 75 yards x 36 inches is 2700 inches of film. If it took 1-2 minutes per inch to analyze that's 2700 - 5400 minutes, or about an 8 hr day for one analyst. 15 strips would take 15 man-days to analyze at minimum. And they said they made repeated passes over days...

4- As previously mentioned it was too late and not done with urgency anyway...!

Just imagine how many objects would be about the size of a body - large rocks, cactus, bushes, dead trees, junk in just one square mile!

ARUBA is 100 sq miles! one sq mile is 5,280 ft x 5,280 ft = 27,878,400 sq feet! Not counting the ocean - and you can't see under waves!

Look at how some criminals are able to even escape the view of overhead police copters when they know what they are looking for...

Even with infrared the heat picture is still just the same size of the body, assuming `5 ft x 2 ft (body size)= 10 sq ft.

With 27,878,400 sq ft per sq mile and 100 sq miles thats 2,787,840,000 sq ft divided by ~10 sq ft for a body,

that's 278,784,000 objects to examine.

IF there was even a heat emmission large enough to detect. Water and earth will hide a heat signature. I used to work with infrared security detectors. It's just like light in a different wave length.

Imagine trying to find a specific star at night with a bright moon shining. Some stars are not even visible then.

If a body was burried a few feet or under a rock or some water that could make it virtually invisible.

And a dead body is cooler (less visible on infrared) than a live one... especially after a few weeks even with consideration for decay produced heat. It would have to be a few degrees above ambient ground temp of 80 - 100 deg.???

We can't even find a 98.6 degree Bin Laden who is moving on a cool day!!!

[patrick]

Diamars, 26 Juli, 2005

Back

Comisario Dompig tambe tabata den laira HELICOPTER CU TESTIGO ABORDO A BULA RIBA AREA ENTRE ARUBA RACQUET CLUB Y MARRIOTT RESORT

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Den forma di exclusividad, DIARIO a publica den su edicion di Dialuna di desaroyo nobo, unda e team investigador di DIARIO mes a hiba detaye cerca Recherche encarga cu e caso di e studiante desapareci Natalee Holloway, den forma di “un testigo principal”.

Manera ta conoci, ya ta bayendo pa dos luna y ainda e caso no a mira luz di dia. Mientras tanto diferente persona a keda deteni entre otro e dos guardianan cu despues a worde laga den libertad ya cu no tabata tin nada di haber cu e caso. E detencion di dos guardia inocente mes a crea un ola di reaccion tanto na Aruba, pero grandemente na Merca. Despues ta e rumannan Satish y Deepak Kalpoe, y Joran van der Sloot a worde deteni.

E trio aki tabata e ultimonan cu tabata den compania di e mucha muher Mericano. Tambe tata di Joran, esta Paulus, a worde deteni den e caso aki, pero e ta den libertad por lo pronto.

Despues di algun siman encarcela, Huez Comisario a dicidi laga e dos rumannan den libertad tambe.

E hoben di 17 aña, Joran van der Sloot, te ainda ta deteni. E team encarga cu e caso Natalee a ricibi cooperacion di coleganan Hulandes, Mericano y tambe di Antiyas. Pero dia y simannan a sigui pasa, y te ainda no a localiza curpa.

Mama di Natalee, esta Beth Twitty, a dicidi di aumenta e award na 200 mil Dollar siman pasa. Pero Dialuna, esaki a subi y yega te na 1 miyon Dollar pa un Natalee bibo bibo.

JORAN Y ARUBA RACQUET CLUB

En conexion cu e testigo cu Diabierna a worde treci pa e team investigador di DIARIO, a nota movimento y Dialuna den curso di merdia segun informe, e “testigo principal” nobo aki a aborda helicopter di Polis cu base na Tanki Flip, acompaña pa Halto Comisario interino, Gerold Dompig, hunto cu un Recherche y asina nan a lanta vuelo.

Un rato despues den espacio a tuma nota di e helicopter di polis Arubano ta circula den area di Hadicurari y Fisherman’s Huts. Nan tabata enfoca riba e area entre e beach, pasa riba e saliña y yega na Aruba Racquet Club.

Corda bon, cu Joran van der Sloot ta un miembro di Aruba Racquet Club, y e conoce e area ey hopi bon. Despues di Tennis, na pia mes ta pasa via di e saliña y yega na e beach di Fisherman’s Huts unda ta practica Windsurfing. E area aki, ta un lugar cu Joran conoce bon-bon for di su planta di man, hasta cu wowo cera e lo sa unda pa cana.

Dialuna ora cu e Helicopter ta bulando, tabata parce cu e ta duna indicacion abao. Diripiente a constata un auto color shinishi (cual despues di a tuma bon nota ta trata e vehiculo confisca) for di cual un Recherche encarga cu e investigacion a habri porta y sali.

Mientras e helicopter a sigui bula y por a nota esnan abordo ta observando na tera mas o menos “e lugar na unda a weita” e trio, esta e rumannan Kalpoe y Joran den e vehiculo cu a pasa net banda di e testigo. E ta un lugar aleha basta meter for di cartera principal, den scuridad riba e caminda di tera.

Durante cu DIARIO tabata na e lugar vigilando e operacion, diripiente a presenta varios medionan internacional. Nan a baha cu camera y tambe segun DIARIO por a saca afor un miembro di FBI cu a drenta den contacto cu esnan internacional.

HALTO COMISARIO NA PHILADELPHIA

Mientras tanto, riba Dialuna un canal di TV na Philadelphia, a tene un entrevista cu Halto Comisario di Aruba, esta mr. Ronny Bernadina, kende a bay e ciudad ey pa topa cu autoridad local.

El a sugeri na TV, cu e forma sofistica cu e DNA-Lab cu Cuerpo Policial di Philadelpia ta dispone di dje, lo por yuda resolve e caso di Natalee Holloway na Aruba.

El a bisa cu como cu Aruba ta un isla hopi safe, aki no tin suficiente recurso pa tin e hermentnan necesario pa resolve crimennan serio. “Mi a caba di bay na e Laboratorio.

Mi ta spera cu mi por a bay cu full e Laboratorio pa Aruba y nos por resolve e caso ey. Pero nos no tin e placa ey.” Bernadina a describi e caso di Natalee como “dificil y straño”, pero tin speranza cu e lo yega na un final feliz.

CLARIVIDENTE TA MIRA CELLSITE

Redaccion di DIARIO tabata sigui tambe varios recomendacion di e asina yama “clarividentenan” Mericano cu ta splica cu nan ta haya soño raro, indicando posible lugar unda Natalee por ta.

Uno a menciona cu e dama hoben aki ta den un poz, cu ta mes hundo cu un palo di coriente. Den e mesun area ey, nan ta mira un toren di Cell-Site. Manera por mira riba e potretnan aki, net banda di Aruba Racquet Club tin un Cellsite tambe.

[speaker]

-annie-

i share your sentiments re: wild goose chase, and unfortunately my opinion is that they are probably doing the same thing now....where were these witnesses before...scared of the plois? ok thats understandable, but but there were tip lines, and several ways to relay their info. annonomously, ya bunch of chickens if you had any morals whatsoever...

on the other hand, if they never check any of these leads, then i guess nothing will ever be searched...what a catch 22 its has become...of course it was night time, and what did these peeping toms see the boys do is really questionable..as well as i wouldn't expect the average aruba citizen to be on the look out and tail the perpetrators that would be knowing in advance what they are up to...i do however, hold the polis and the chief responsible for curtailing this case and not moving their feet as they should have like the protectors who were sworn in when they chose their perspective careers...what morals these people have is beyond me...what and how they protect their citizens is farfetched, and the egos the walk around are colossal...say what you will even the biggest crime perpetrators never sent our authorities on chases of this ilk..guess it proves one thing, america the great still has morals, and in time of need stands together...-le of corrupted stand together in the carribean behind the corrupted.
peace to the world

[Coolbeans]

I have my doubts that they dumped her there, at least not permanently. By the time they would have moved her they were already free to move her again. As for evidence, lets hope the storms they have had, didnt clean the pond.

I could not imagine with all the smoke Texas Equasearch was blowing that they missed this pond. If they did they owe everyone a refund. Anyway, they are on the way back. They could have missed something, I dont think they did. They pretty much called the dcut tape "planted" and I kinda agree.

I think they are obligated to empty this pond because of the witness's statements. Also is this witness so sure it was that night? It wasnt a holiday for them how can she be sure? I think it was a rave party or something like that in the club. I wonder do they have camera's?

This case sucks. Aruba really screwed the pooch. I hope I am wrong or at least incorrect, but I dont think the FBI is going to be a big help. This land has been trampled by volunteer workers and a tropical storm.

I think if they had hard DNA they would have charged the Idiot Three. Lets face it, Aruba is getting bullied by the USA and will do anything to get the Holloways out of Aruba. I dont disagree with bullying, but I will put a name to it.

I think Aruba letting the FBI get the goods is so the end game is on us. "See even your FBI could not solve this one" or "Sorry, cant use this in Aruba court."

Pathetic little place in the sand.

Coolbeans

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

THE POND has more water in it now than it did on May 31 - June 1.

There was a "storm last week [Emily] that flooded ponds" as stated on the Abrams reporter, Michele Kosinski, earlier.

[oneyka]

"of course it was night time, and what did these peeping toms see the boys do is really questionable"

A lady sitting in her house at night, the husband not home, is not a peeping Tom. I also look out the window when a car stops accross the street from my house, a peeping Tom is when someone is looking from the outside inside a window.

The jets were just for show. They would never be able to detect a small object from that altitude. The Ruben guy is as guilty as sin of helping de Van der Sluts to cover up what baby boy did, and the other two as also as guilty as sin. The mothers know everything. Have to give a chance to the investigators to prove if the witnesses stories are true.
Also, the $1 million bucks is ONLY if Natalee is returned alive. For her whereabouts is $100,000 dlls. reward.

[lf]

I think Jug is too confident something will break this week to doubt him. He knows something...otherwise he would likely be more reserved given the ups and downs of the case thus far.

[LornaD]

Nancy Grace's show on, reporter confirms draining of pond going on now, just started, so she says.

Says sources say they are looking for a body.

duh

[chance]

Why would they keep her in a pond with the ocean nearby? Something would have floated to the surface by now even if they had weighted the body down.

Of course, if it was in a container maybe but I would assume it would be too easy to be seen at a tennis club pond fooling around with a large container. Maybe it was the best they could do on short notice?

Probably looking for evidence.

I'm skeptical........

[speaker]

it was said by someone before that -jan van der straten was only the dutch tech support and leading investigator on natalees case..

-jan van der straten is in fact the Police Commissioner and he was heading this investigation.
peace to the world

[chance]

of course, if they did throw her in the pond, it would be very difficult to locate and move the body later......

Still doubting, but hope something turns up to help solve this case.

[Tanya]

I believe they neede a shovel and some digging tools. may have come from this area

[calista]

in an interview I read wiht the p.i. hired by holloways he said a lady at the subdivision where there is construction still going on said she could positiveli id the car belonging to deepak and he said she decribed it to a "t" including speacail taillights etc. he said she spoke to fbi....she said she saw the car in and out of there at night several times - I can't remember the dates but it was during the time the police said they had the boys under "surveillence" yeah right - they were watching them but didn't know theyw ere at this housing subdivision int he middle of the night.....at this point I owuldn't be surprised if the police helped them hide the body

[speaker]

look what i just found on a site outside this one...so don't flame me i'll post the url if you want..this is known to be more of an aruban site...here it goes..
copied and pasted:
We cannot comment

Nothing new came out from today's press briefings other than the already known.
Just a lot of "we cannot comment on that right now".

My question:
Why call a press conference again!, without being able to comment on it?

*All three suspects knew Natalee before she disappeared on 30th of May, to be exact they met infront of the a casino two days before she disappeared.

*Joran van Sloot is said to have had relations with Natalee.

*Friends of Natalee's admitts that Natalee was heavily drunk the night she disappeared.

She couldn't have been kidnapped by the suspects she consciously befriended.


peace to the world

[speaker]

here is another interesting article from the past if you read it completely it tells you why they prefer to conduct a search during the night..

copied and pasted:
UPDATE 12: There is no more breaking news expected today. Local media of Aruba are reporting that the local authorities will intensify the search this evening until dawn. At this moment many habitants of Aruba are on the streets, shores and in the woods looking for Natalee. This broad search by the public is helping a lot because the people can cover a large part of the island, but on the other hand the authorities cannot conduct the investigation properly. This is because as soon as the public hear of a site that is being searched or that will be searched next by authorities, the public goes there and this may lead to (possible) loss of and/or tampering with evidence. This is why the investigation/search by authorities will intensify at night when most people are back at home. The FBI has brought special search dogs to Aruba to assist them. This forum is also dedicating a lot of attention

[justice for Natalee]

Chance--Maybe Natalee's body was wrapped in something.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Hannity - now on - more later...

Alan Combs just said the pond is "across the street from the Marriot hotel."

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Hannity n Combs to show pumps being put into pond.

[EKD]

"No body no case" does not jive with the disposal of a body across the street from where every suspect has said they were with NH the night of her disappearance. Who would say we went to the Marriot Beach knowing they disposed the body across the street in a pond and then be so confident in the authorities not being able to find a body. . .

[Pearl]

The search is taking place tomorrow not today.

[cricket]

If Equusearch didn't search this pond before it was because the polis would not let them - they did not get very much cooperation from Aruban LE.
I think it has been confirmed that the former polis chief is Joran's godfather.

Equusearch is a volunteer organization - they aren't getting paid for their time.

[Texas Joe]

EKD said it all!

No way is that girl's body on that Island!!!

[Roy]

If I am not mistaken it was the advise of the FBI to drain this pond.
Speaker, you probably only write and don't read. Some time ago it was already explained dat van Straaten is not commissioner of police. He used to be head of a department. He was indeed in charge of this investigation.

[Roy]

dat=that

[Jessie]

They can drain that pond (or whatever it is) on the advice of whoever wants to give the advice, but they are about as likely to find something to advance this case there as the duct tape/hair thing is to advance the case. Very remote. But things are moving along. They are moving a lot of water tonight. Next thing you know, the clairvoyant is going to suggest the ocean be drained.

[Jessie]

Of course if the body of water is being drained at the suggestion of Joran Van Der Sloot, everything changes.

[Cyndi]

My heart goes out to all family members of Natalee. I have followed this story from the beginning, praying and hoping for some closure to come to the family. I feel I am personal friends with Nancy Grace and Greta V. because I try not to miss there reports. Yesterday was my birthday and I all I wanted was for some peace to come to Beth. We all need to pray for her!