Picture Comparison

When I posted the images below, I didn't have high resolution copies and still don't. However, it is my understanding that they will be provided. That should enable a better evaluation of the images.

I did try to address one issue and thanks to reader JL, it is posted here. There is an inset box of Natalee's halter tilted at a forty dergee angle to match her leaning over from the stage.

A few other points - It appears that Natalee is on the stage, not on the bar - given the configuration of the club.  Also, if it is Natalee by the door - and I am waiting until I have the hi res photos to address that, assuming they come - then I hope to determine if it is the same individual looking at her by the door, as the fellow looking up at the stage in the picture at link above.

I do not believe either individual is Joran v d Sloot.

Comments

[pinkie]

The investigative experts on Bill O'Reilly's program that Dan posted a link to a couple of days ago made a lot of sense to me. Natalee may have OD'ed or had some other accident that caused her death. There was a reason why the perps panicked and felt that they had to dispose of her body rather than calling for help or coming out and declaring the accidental death: SOME OTHER CRIME OR CRIMES HAD ALREADY TAKEN PLACE.

Why would the perps not want the body viewed? What would her body have looked like?

Joran had a bruise. It is therefore likely that Natalee's body was also bruised. This is assault.

Joran boasted of sex with Natalee at school. It is likely that semen of Joran and probably the brothers would be found on her body. This is a rape charge.

Natalee may have taken or have been forced to take XTC or a date rape drug to overcome her resistance to sex with one to three guys. Notice that Joran wants to paint the picture of Natalee taking drugs already at Carlos and Charlie's as though to put the responsibility on her. Her friends say she did not. If she ODed or fell over and hit her head woozy from drugs they gave her, they directly contributed to her death.

Something happened or there was some circumstance that made it difficult for Natalee to be coherent in describing her predicament in those two cell phone calls she probably made ca 3 am. Drugs? Hurt?

The implication of all this is that the perps let Natalee die rather than getting her help. Remember the post from the woman who worked with drug prevention that said that kids would abandon even their close friends when things went wrong and they might be implicated in activities that they didn't want known?

The former FBI person on O'Reilly's show said that the perps would go somewhere familiar. We need to direct searches to areas that they are familiar with.

I am a dowser. My dowsing says that Natalee is under water somewhere. She is not in the old well on the van der Sloot property, however. I can't get a reading on where she is yet.

[Leonvang]

Now that FBI is running case maybe we will get truth from Natalee's friends.
Where was ex-boyfriend that night?
why do her "close" friends keep changing their story?
Where was her roomate all night and why did her beast friend not check voice mail from Natalee before she left Aruba?
Why is everyone not looking at them?
Friends stories keep changing and getting stranger.
If they were involved which is possible, this is definitely and FBI case now.

[RJ]

I do not believe that any of the guys in the photos are the same person. Guy in front of Joran too short to be guy in front of stage also a little heavier. Guy by door lighter hair and longer. The guy by door could very well be a MB student. He may even know who she was waiting on or left with. Right after the lightened pics were posted I brought up the guy by door (maybe two or three posts later) it sucks when someone else gets credit for your obsevations.

[RJ]

Who is the supposed new witness? Any guesses?

[cricket]

What new witness?

[RJ]

I am not RstJ! What an ass. Maybe I'll change my name as to not mistaken for this guy.

[pinkie]

This was undoubtedly not the first time Joran and the brothers had perpetrated this type of activity with young American students on vacation in Aruba. Likely Joran lures the girls posing as a charming European fellow tourist, and Deepak provides the transportation. DJ Croes may contribute by scouting prospects on the Tatoo, and he may also take part in sexual activities with the young women.

There must be other young women out there who can provide more information on this activity, where they take the girls for example. I can understand their reluctance in coming forward, however.

[RJ]

MSNBC said something about a witness that may have spoken to police yesterday. Anyone hear that?

[deb]

There must be other young women out there who can provide more information on this activity, where they take the girls for example. I can understand their reluctance in coming forward, however.

Posted by: pinkie | July 23, 2005 12:00 PM

The other poor girls wouldn't remember much of any thing if they were drugged.

[pinkie]

There have to be other people out there who know more about what these perps were doing as the Natalee event was probably not a one time occurrence.

[Lisa]

Hi guys, new poster but obsessed reader and $ supporter of Dan. Since this case is receiving such media attention, I hope any girls who have had past experiences with Joran/Kalpoes have come forward to LE. There have to be several according to stories.

[GAmom]

Agree with Pinkie. Wish they would could forward.
And Deb you're right they may not remember much. But seems to me if they remember leaving with Joran and then not the rest of the night, that would be a clue also.
Have also heard that Joran posed as a tourist and I remember one of Natalee's friends saying in the beginning that Joran told them he was a foreign exchange student.

[M]

Dan yes you are doing a great job. I've been glued to this site for over a month now, just ask my hubby :) Don't you just love the power to make the idiots go away? lol

[GAmom]

Does anyone out there remember the foreign exchange student thing. I know I heard this. My husband also remembers this because I discussed it at length with him. I am a teacher and we have had several foreign exchange students at my school. I would imagine there have been foreign exchange students at Natalee's school in MB. I think that is why she may have felt comfortable leaving with him.

[pinkie]

I have heard the reports from Natalaee's friends that they thought he was an exchange student or that he was a tourist staying at the HI hotel.

Remember that in one early posting a friend said that she was suspicious of Joran because he was there at the hotel casino alone. The explanation of fellow tourist staying at hotel would explain his presence there alone.

Probably Joran used both covers to gain the confidence of the young women. People feel more secure with people they perceive as being like them.

The covers would also have been necessary because reports are that people were sometimes warned about local Arubans hitting on women at places like Carlos and Charlie's. In fact I read on one post that George Twitty, Natalee's half brother, had been on the trip in 2003 and had warned his step-mother about locals' behavior towards American girls at Carlos and Charlie's before Natalee left.

[Tanya]

just checked internet for any news none out there yet

[color]

Dan,
You have to know that there are malcontents in this world. Someone like you, who goes above and beyond in caring to get the truth out to others is going to be their target. They are just sad sacks.

[GAmom]

Thanks Pinkie. I really think that is why she trusted him or felt comfortable around him and probably why her friends didn't think much about her leaving with him. I know the MB kids stories are conflicting, confusing, and what ever, but I think what they are trying to say is that they wouldn't have let her leave with Joran had they known he was local and not a tourist or foreign exchange student. And of course they are covering their own asses in that they were probably partying, drinking, maybe doing a little drugs and I hate to say it, but pairing up and sleeping elsewhere. And I don't blame them for that. That's what kids do on trips like this. And we as parenst know this but don't like to admit it. I am sure they are being more honest or revealing more now and were probably more revealing to the FBI agents than their parents and to the public.

[FloridaPatty]

Dan

Thanks for the pics. Sorry you have other posters rashing your ass over trite crap.

I saw these photos a few days ago, before anyone starting conversing about Natalee on the WHATEVER..how about "above the crowd" and picked up on that fabric. She looks to be bending down, or bending over doing a booty dance, or just taking her turn to look over the crowd from that vantage.

That doesn't look like Joran below her...photographers on her check the fabric, regardless of high flash the pattern is still different from the other shot of him in the distance.

That "Natalee" in the door isn't. Shadows, skin tone, width of her face relative to objects around her just don't fit with her. Someone said she has glasses on..why would she wear sunglasses while exiting a club into the Aruban night unless she wanted to blindly fall over her own feet.

[Rhonda]

Dan,

You are doing a wonderful job! I admire your research BEFORE posting any information. Everyone who is even reading your posts already knows that you are someone with integrity. I really wish you could delete the "troll" person's posts. I think it's "Rstj." Not only does it sound like this person needs psychological help but I also sense that this person is creepy and shouldn't be allowed to contribute. Thanks.

[maceo]

Was there an ex-boyfriend of Natalee's on the trip? Have his whereabouts that night been accounted for at all times? Demands for full information must include full information from all connected parties- not just from the Arubans. What is the harm in being forthcoming? Why are the MB students entitled to greater protection than others from their stories being public? I have noted other posters bringing up the issue of Natalee's MB male friends but getting no response or derogatory responses.

People in the U.S. are often accused and even imprisoned for crimes they did not commit. DNA evidence is showing this more and more in the U.S. That should make us reluctant to assign blame without proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Why do we continue to forget this?

A person who lies raises more suspicions than one who doesn't, but it does not make him or her guilty, especially when that person is a teenager.

Until it is proven impossible, what about Bey's comment that an ex-boyfriend may have encountered Natalee on her way back to Holiday Inn that night after Joran had left?

[pinkie]

The cell phone calls seem critical to me. Why can't the authorities just trace where those calls came from?

[Grassyknoll]

Dan,
I think you yourself are involved in the crime. Your obscesssion with this case is very, very suspicious. I'm contacting the FBI.
Grassy

[Grassyknoll]

Oh, and don't tell me that you have proof you were at home, witnesses, etc. EVERYone knows you cloned yourself years ago. You've been seen multiple times at multiple places at the EXACT same time by MULTIPLE people.

[pinkie]

It is surprisingly easy to get addicted. This is my first experience with any internet discussion forum, and I am surprised at its ability to bring out obsessive qualities.

[sleuth]

Yaawwwnnnn...there is something addictive about this blog. Unfortunately, that makes me so frustrated when I read posts that say with such assuredness that THIS is true, or THAT is true, and it's not true at all, but merely their opinion.

Some of you are so sure Urine is guitly of this that and the other. And everyone assumes he is telling the truth when he said he had sex with her? Of all his lies, I kind of think that one is bogus...he looks to me to be the kind that would SAY he had sex, to cover for the fact that he did NOT. All blow no show, that's who that kid is. And at 17, he is a kid, regardless of the life style he has been leading. To read some of the speculations about him posted here, you'd think he was the caliber of the fantastic four. And throw in those two scrawny homely Kalpoe brothers, someone nailed it when they said it was more like the Three Stooges.

There has to be a reason that there is so little evidence of a crime, and another big reason why these stooges won't talk. They are not capable of pulling off the perfect crime, even if the police commissioner and Papa helped. The time frame is way too small for that. I can't believe many of you are still stuck on that theory, when it doesn't appear to fit, as each day brings us no closer to any real clue what happened to this poor girl, and where she is.

I'm not reading here as much, cause it is so fruitless to read the same old stuff. And the midnight shift is mostly chat.

Dan is doing an excellent job of posting new stuff, and what does he get but slammed for it, and we are all back to square one.

[Birmingham dog]

maceo- Excelent point.....why is it if some of us say this we are immediately Flamed? All we want is the REAL Truth to come out. I would mush rather know completely what happened and WHO did this rather than have some doubt. If it takes a long time, no matter for the real truth to come out. Sure we all want a hasty hapy ending but that is Not going to happen. Why not back off and let the professionals do their jobs.
WHere were you people when Michaelk Jackson got off, or OJ Simpson, these cases happend in the USA, why the constant demionizing of Aruba ?
So many repeat rumor as facts, with that being the case then before too long the real facts will never come out. I just cant understand why people dont understand this. If falshoods are repeated over and over in the MSMedia then when the Truth comes out, the public won't believe it.

GWD

[Sam]

Thanks Dan for all the work and posting you have done on the Natalee Holloway case. Please ignore
RSTJ and his crap.His site the Bushy haired Stanger is just that. STRANGER. Some of the posters are ok there but most are just there to run down Natalees' family or anyone else involved in the case such as the searchers, or the folks at Websleuths or anyone who does not share there opinions. A whole lot of troll types there. LOL
Sam

[realitybased]

anyone who really believes that these kids weren't just chomping at the bit to get to CnC's has probably got another think coming. How many other classes had been to Aruba? Does anyone really think that CnC's wasn't the #1 spot on their list to hit?

How many other nights had they been there?

Her friend Dash who has been posting on most of the boards claims Natalee was a virgin, yet in some of her posts on SM and other boards she not only claims Natalee was raped, but viciously raped. Now if Dash hasn't spoken to Natalee how would she know this? What is she basing those assertions on?

[color]

Dash has NEVER claimed that Natalee was raped or viciously for that matter. You sure can lie though.
What Dash said was in answer to the first statements the dishonest threesome made, that they all had Consensual sex with her. Dash said there is no way, IF they had sex with her then she was raped and it was viciously.
See the operative word here is IF which is what Dash used not was.

No one has said that the kids did not want to go to C&C or that they had not been there before. So what is your point?

[FloridaPatty]

Maceo posted:
Was there an ex-boyfriend of Natalee's on the trip? Have his whereabouts that night been accounted for at all times? Demands for full information must include full information from all connected parties- not just from the Arubans. What is the harm in being forthcoming? Why are the MB students entitled to greater protection than others from their stories being public? I have noted other posters bringing up the issue of Natalee's MB male friends but getting no response or derogatory responses.

People in the U.S. are often accused and even imprisoned for crimes they did not commit. DNA evidence is showing this more and more in the U.S. That should make us reluctant to assign blame without proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Why do we continue to forget this?

A person who lies raises more suspicions than one who doesn't, but it does not make him or her guilty, especially when that person is a teenager.

Until it is proven impossible, what about Bey's comment that an ex-boyfriend may have encountered Natalee on her way back to Holiday Inn that night after Joran had left?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

While it's true people have been convicted in the states for crimes they did not commit. It's also true they have been convicted of murder without a body and also without pulling the trigger themselves (committing the crime themselves). I think what is so disconcerting to many is that how these crimes get solved is through intense investigation, careful gathering of evidence and questioning witnesses and suspects. Here in the U.S. I think we expect a level of searching by authorities much more zealous and moreso when a youth is involved. The posting of her pictures that you see in Aruba, the rewards, each human life is highly valued and people come from nowhere to help in the search. Unfortunately this kidnapping occurred outside the U.S.

I had the misfortune of being dear friends with someone who was very close to the abduction and rape and murder of a youth here in Florida. She had been buried alive. During her search, which went on for three weeks, people drove from out of state to come and help look for this girl. They brought food to the volunteers, loaned vehicles, donated money, it was an enormous out pour of concern.

This does not happen in Aruba. In fact things are kept quiet. I don't believe that Americans have an issue with a foreign government, I believe they do have an issue with, no matter what the teens did be it drinking, sex, drugs..whatever, that an "official" who works for the government's son is involved. He lied. It is known that he lied. This family simply wanted answers as to what happened.

Natalee's mother reported that Joran was very rude to her, screamed at her and physically hit his chest. Where is the respect? Then when we come to forums and read posts from Arubans in their native language describing American youth who only travel to Aruba for drugs, drinking and sex, paints a picture that this person views ALL of the youth in American as coming to their country for an outlet. (as if)

[FloridaPatty]

Color I'm with you!

My daughter took one look at those boys and said there was no way she thought someone like Natalee would mess around with guys like that.
A smart girl like that from Alabama? Those boys are lying.

[LALady]

I have been thinking about how the garbage is removed from Aruba...most islands use a barge service..does any one from there know this...just putting 2+2 together...

[Shari]

LALady,
That's something that hasn't been discussed here before. I thought it was worth mentioning to Dan, so I forwarded your post onto him.

[MrsJimiHendrix]

reality based and color

is dash the one who goes by MBSH 2005, or is that just a crank (the screen name I mean)?

[FloridaPatty]

Dan,

Congratulations. You're a fucking sissy too.

Thanks for cropping the photos to protect Natalee's pals. I'm sure
they appreciate it. Especially the guy with the blurred face.

...............

TC posts like this really chap my ass. Get educated so you don't sound like an idiot. Read other people's explanation before you spout off.

[LALady]

Shari..thanks..don't post much...just read

[Sgt.Sally]

I wonder how many males and females were on the trip. Were most of the people there part of a couple? Did NH start that way?
Were their assigned rooms mainly a fiction for propriety? And that once they got there they sort of re-arranged?
I do recall from a trip participant post that the rooms were scattered all over the hotel, not like down one hall ajoining or anything.

[whoknows]

Just curious..didn't the bartenders at C&C notice Natalee..if she was up on the bar or stage I'm sure they would've seen her and maybe seen Joran with her? Also, I've heard from some people down in aruba that they seen her at C&C the night she came up missing.."supposdly" NH and her friends were completly drunk and were all over Joran and some of his friends. They also said that they live next to where a big boat is normally docked (I didn't get the name yet) and the night she came up missing - the boat wasn't there for 3 days. I guess Venezuela isn't that far away from aruba? **I don't know if any of this is true...they could just be making it all up, who knows..but thought maybe i should say something.

Prayin for Natalee and her family!!