Phone Calls And Messages

Conversation and confusion continue around what, if any cell phone calls may have been placed that night, not simply between the suspects, but possibly between the suspects, and / or Natalee and other parties and trip attendees from Mountain Brook High School.

While I will continue to post what I have learned from speaking with reliable sources with a genuine or direct knowledge of events, I must also continue to caution readers that accumulating one larger more solid truth from reading the grains of sand that can be provided by a group of teenagers more caught up in this tragedy than observers must be read in context.

Clearly a combination of factors including - some individuals state of mind that night and after wards; an obvious over-indulgence in alcohol and possibly drugs, including Ecstasy by some in attendance at Carlos and Charlies; a necessarily secretive investigation and a desire by some to not discuss certain events that 1) may not sit well with family and friends and 2) may not always be remembered clearly due to the haze of partying, all combine to confound the unraveling of the mystery behind the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

As regards phone calls what I have learned from a reliable source is that at least two calls are said to have been placed by individuals on Aruba during the late night hours of the first evening of Natalee Holloway's disappearance. The calls were missed, either because phones were deactivated, or because of the poor performance of certain cell phones on the island of Aruba.

One male, said to be a close friend of Natalee Hollway discovered a message as he was riding home to Mountain Brook on a bus with other students and some chaperones. While I'm unable to verify the originating number of the call, I've been told it was not thought to be the cell phone of Natalee Holloway.

The message could not be clearly made out by ear and was characterized as being garbled "Aruban" voices. The call is said to have been originated in the "middle of the night" on the first evening of Natalee's disappearance.

A second "missed call" message is said to have been discovered by a female friend and possible vacation roommate of Natalee Holloway while flying home with the group from Aruba. The two groups of students mentioned were on separate flights.

As reported earlier, it is has been said that the remaining chaperone did use Natalee Holloway's cell phone the next day to reach her friends for more information that might have helped in finding Natalee early on in her disappearance. While that timing suggests the second call could have been placed by the chaperone, one source insists the missed call message was time stamped at 4 AM the previous night. That information has not been corroborated.

Attempts to clarify the circumstances surrounding Natalee's cell phone usage for the trip, specifically did she rent an alternate cell phone, as is common practice for some while visiting Aruba, were met with a no comment from one likely phone provider.

It is possible she had an additional phone resulting in some confusion as to where her cell phone was at any point in time. Also, the time stamp of the missed call from her phone could have been misinterpreted or reported incorrectly from the owner of the phone. It is assumed that authorities have verified those issues.

In the first instance above the young man notified a chaperone upon receiving the phone message and students quickly began to surmise that cell phones and any possible messages could become relevant to any potential investigation. I've been told that at that point most if not all phones were switched off and handed in, presumably to be handed over to investigating authorities.

I have no information as regards other possible phone messages left with anyone linked to this case.

Comments

[dutchgal]

grew up in gouda, then moved to rotterdam to go to college 3 years ago and then moved to the states a year ago..
where in the states do you live?

[Chuck]

I live in Washington state now. I've lived in a number of places in the country.

[Blue Dog]

Regarding Thomas Twitty, booze him up and put him on the field and see how fast he gets his head ripped off.

[DennisAOK]

Sam,

What the hell do you know about Natalee's character? And what does that have to do with her possibily being murdered?

And how do you know that Joran is innocent? His conduct suggests otherwise.

[Chuck]

Blue Dog,

Quit maligning a red-blooded American hero who in a moment of valor stood up to the bully van der Sloot! Thomas is a man, just like Jug.

[tideroller]

Oh, Blue Dog - Grow up!

[dutchgal]

so whats up with all the jug posts?
are you in college and having a boring vacation that you're posting you're pro jug messages here? they cant possibly be serious..

[Chuck]

There is something about that man (Jug) I admire! A real American type of guy.

[dutchgal]

well...then i really misunderstood the intentions of your posts

[Blud Dog]

OK Chuck. Just sounds like to be that both the guys were the agressive type when it came to other males.

[sam]

Over on the scaredmonkey site on a posting was this link:

http://scrux.com/natalee/

It presents the case against Joran based only on the evidence as it might be presented to the three judge panel. It is quite revealing. It really opens your eyes to understanding that there can be "reasonable" explanations to what on the surface might indicate guilt.

Of, course, if you mind is made up.. well nothing could change it.

[Concerned]

Good night all1 Between the private conversations and slammings, I need to get some solid peace. I hope we can regroup tomorrow.

[P in S.E.Asia]

The nerve of some people...

why cant we agree to disagree or agree that two independent people are entitled to hold opposing views? The world woudl be a boring place if we all agreed. It's simple, put forward ur case supporting ur position n let the ideas contend...

DennisAOK,
why attack the messanger, or the person's credibility simply beacuse they dont share ur views?

[Chuck]

Dutchgal,

What did you think were the intentions of my posts? ;-)

[dutchgal]

Dontknow, was kinda hoping that i wasnt the only one losing myself in this ..uhm...'discussion'
But..guess i am the only one then huh ;)

[Chuck]

Dutchgal,

Your interpretation of my posts are actually correct! It should be nakedly obvious what I'm doing. But we won't share that with the rest of the group.

[FBN]

A few things I found out:

1:Cellphones....there are 4 bands of frequencies for cellphones. 900 - 1800 - 1900 - 850. We use the last 2 here in the USA 1900 & 850. Aruba uses the 1st 3 900,1800,1900. Most phones in this country are dual or tri-mode phones. They do make quad-band phones but they are very expensive....(drop in a pan for drug dealers who want to call anywhere in the world). I'm no expert but If Croes controls the colpany perhaps he controls the bands and maybe only uses 1 or 2? http://www.thetravelinsider.info/roadwarriorcontent/quadbandphones.htm

2:THE SECURITY GUARDS:
One of the reasons they were arrested other than what the 3 amigos said was that one of them was caught stealing cameras in the Holiday Inn. I think the article said several MB cameras were stolen. Maybe this is more relevant than 1st thought.
There are several versions of that story and some reference them as rumors. One version has them stealing a camera. Others has them stealing many. Again...just rumor but perhaps the MB kids would know better.

Keep up the good work Dan...love reading your thoughts everyday...."F.B.N."
God Bless Natalee & Family.

[DennisAOK]

Sam,

I agree the evidence isn't there to convict. However, a competent investiagtion would have detained all three boys right off the bat. The van der Sloot vehicles should have been seized and examined, and their house searched thoroughly. Instead, the Mickey Mouse Aruban cops sat around and did little until Beth Twitty started raising Hell. The boys and the elder van der Sloot had time to get their stories straight and destroy evidence. Now, we are left with the worst outcome: no Natalee - dead or alive - and no knowledge of what happened.

[tideroller]

Well Sam, While flattered that you find my posts worthy of so much time, I find that you must not have spent enough time on them for evidently you did not read them carefully! I have often stated that I thought the whole story should be told from MBHS kids' trip down and their whole five days there (including, of course, Natalee's activities). I've even been flamed for that. I, however, do not believe in blaming the victim. Joran's actions speak louder than words, although his reportedly repeated lying speaks loudly, too.Both imply guilt. You are correct in stating that I devote a good deal of time on this. Can you think of a more worthy cause? A serious injustice is being committed against a fellow human being and I am outraged by that. Sorry if that offends you. As for your other statement, I have never made it a secret about currently residing in the state of Alabama. However, it may interest you to know that Mountain Brook citizens are not particularly popular in other parts of Alabama, especially, other parts of Birmingham itself. So you are showing your bias in thinking that my interest is spurred on just because Natalee is from Alabama.

[Blue Dog]

I am just waiting for the investigation to put it all together with "evidence" and snatch old Deepak from the weeds like a large mouth bass who has been lying there for weeks but just could not be hooked.

[dutchgal]

wont tell anybody, promise.
How did you wind up on this forum then?

[DennisAOK]

P in S.E.Asia,

I attack the viewpoints of those who don't make sense.

[tideroller]

DennisAOK - Well said!

[Chuck]

Ik las gewoonlijk slechts ernstige nieuwsplaatsen. Ik bezoek zelden blogs. Dit verhaal is "geen nieuws" aan me. Het leidt aandacht van de ernstige problemen in de wereld af: ecologische problemen, onnodige oorlog, enz. Een vriend vertelde me over dit belachelijke verhaal, zodat besliste ik pret van conservatieve Amerikanen conservatiever door te beweren aan me te maken dan zij zijn.

[wreck]

What a waste of time "chuck". NO ONE falls for your moronic sarcastic "Jug" droppings. Your not as clever as you think you are.

[tideroller]

Sam and P in SE Asia - Both of you are omitting another crime. In the US, at least, don't know about Aruba since crime is not crime down there, rape is still a crime. Joran claims that Natalee was drunk and had been using drugs. He also admits to having had sex with her. A drunk and drugged up person cannot legally consent to sex. Therefore, he has confessed to rape. Add that to your short list of the 'misbehaviors' he is guilty of.

[Chuck]

Wreck,

Sadly, many have.

[sam]

DennisAOK -

I think that is is so easy for us from a distance to judge the Aruban police, but I read somewhere (who knows if it is true?) that they patterned that investigation after the missing Laci Peterson case. If you recall Scott Peterson was not incarcerated, but instead his phone was tapped and he was followed with gps devices (for several months he stayed free as a bird, but watched very carefully). Low and behold, that is what convicted him in court. No forensics from his house or car (and they didn't do a thorough search there for several days either), but where he went (out to the crime scene over and over in rental cars) and complicated lies to his mistress.
The article I read (and goodness, I couldn't for the life of me give you a link) said that the Aruban police were using that technique to see if the 3 suspects went to the crime scene.. talked about it in text messages and phone calls and emails.. etc. Putting them in jail would have stopped that cold. So, again, who knows... I am not a detective (maybe you are?) but that sounds like it would work to me.

We have had so many FBI searches that produced nothing here for years... so how can we say the Aruban police aren't doing as good a job as those?

It is just so easy to second guess someone else's efforts.

Sam

[JustMe]

I am posting this to ask someone to answer a question for me.

I have made international calls with land line telephones. When that is done you have to dial a country code, etc.

I have never made an international call with a cellular telephone. Do the same codes, etc., have to be dialed when one is used?

Also, Beth Twitty has stated that Natalee never called home from Aruba before her disappearance. Taking that into consideration what are the odds that Natalee had the number sequence memorized to make an international telephone call?

All this telephone call business is beginning to smell fishy to me.

If anyone can shed some light and answer my question concerning making an international call from a cellular telephone I would be grateful.

[dutchgal]

Yeah I know what you mean.. I am half Arubian, so this case really does interest me, but not merely because of what happened to NH (and yes thats very tragic), when people started to insult Aruba I kept checking back and somehow it really annoys me to see how obsessed people are with this case and posting like their life depends on it..
and I really dont care what people here think of me, since they arent relevant to me in any way

[mom]

Since Joran frequents C&C and casinos on the Island he has committed the crime of maybe forgery in the form of using a fake ID to enter such places since he is not old enough to do so legally. Of course the casinos and C&C are also breaking the law.

[tideroller]

Chuck - I almost got it, but help me out on the words I didn't understand. (Sorry no Dutch dictionary handy!)
I --gewohnlich slecthe ernstige Blatter. Ich besuche blogs nicht oft. Diese --- ist 'keine news' fur mich. It takes thought away from the true problems of the world., ie: ecological problems, -- etc. A -- verteidet mich uber diese ridiculous --, so that I -- about the Conservative Americans... (Then you lost me). Ik las gewoonlijk slechts ernstige nieuwsplaatsen. Ik bezoek zelden blogs. Dit verhaal is "geen nieuws" aan me. Het leidt aandacht van de ernstige problemen in de wereld af: ecologische problemen, onnodige oorlog, enz. Een vriend vertelde me over dit belachelijke verhaal, zodat besliste ik pret van conservatieve Amerikanen conservatiever door te beweren aan me te maken dan zij zijn.

Posted by: Chuck | July 17, 2005 12:11 AM

[Momof2teens]

So far as I know, the calls would depend on what area code the phone is listed under. (The way I understand it is that Natalee's phone was left in her room) However, IF phone calls were made from a US phone, she would have had to dial only the area code first. However, if the call came from a phone with the Aruba code, then a country code would have to be used.
So, I guess the question would be: do they rent cell phones in Aruba with direct access to the US?

[dutchgal]

tideroller, his post was addressed to me, but if you really cant handle your curiosity ill be happy to help you out.

[sam]

Tideroller - I don't know really that Joran ever admitted to sex, except in some internet discussion board rumors. Some postings have said he said that at school (but, no actual witnesses yet have said to the police. That, according to an interview I saw with, who I am thinking was, Joran's attorney). Internet postings won't be admitted as evidence, I don't think.

But, we have testimony from the Mountain Brook students that she was not impaired... Several, I saw two interviewed live, who saw her up close leaving with Joran. They are the ones who called out to her. They said, "No, she was not drunk or staggering or in any way impaired in speech or manner" So, I guess they could tell if she wasn't. It would be hard to say she was so impaired she couldn't consent to sex in the light of that kind of testimony. Several othes say she had a two drink coupon and that was all she had. So... sounds like she was reasonably sober.

So, even if he had sex... it could have been consensual (and rape would not be easily concluded).

Sam

[tideroller]

Dutchgal - Wasn't 'eavesdropping', didn't notice that it was 'addressed' to anyone. And I am interested in what he had to say about the Conservative Americans.

[Momof2teens]

I hope that they have taken this route, but is it possible to have the phone company get a print-out of all phone calls to the Holloway residence that night? Or the cell phone bills of the kids who had messages?

[JustMe]

Tideroller:

I will admit that one of the main reasons I am interested in this case is because Natalee is from Alabama. Just like my wife.

Another reason is because her parents are from Arkansas. Just like my mother.

If that offends someone then he can kiss my unreconstructed Rebel derriere.

I'll see you in Bryant-Denny Stadium on November 12.

[dutchgal]

thing he had to say about conservative americans is that they're posting on this forum, thats all.

[Blue Dog]

Regarding Joran drinking and gambling in Aruba.

The legal age for gambling in Aruba is eighteen years of age, although the law is not widely enforced.

It is said that Joran's favorite card game is Caribbean Stud Poker, an increasingly popular game invented in 1988, where each player vies only with the dealer (as in Blackjack), and the progressive jackpot can reach into hundreds of thousands of dollars. Seems more productive to me than getting knee walking drunk. Just don't drink when you play Sud Poker against the dealer.
The dealer will not be drinking.

[CancunGirl]

Sam:
Joran admitted to having sex with Natalee on the night he was questioned by Jug, Beth, Rudy Croes and Co. 05/31/05

[sam]

Tideroller -

Another point.. it is rape to have sex with a female who is incoherent, but not to have sex with a woman who is intoxicated (at least in my home town, and I think the same for most of the US). My guess is Aruba would be the same.

Intoxicated girls are having sex every night of the week after the bars close, but as long as they can slur out the words of permission, it is not rape. Passed out? That's rape. But, Natalie wasn't carried from the bar. I am sure you get the picture... but my theory is Tideroller will just attack everything anyone posts. I will check back tomorrow and see if I'm right on that.

But, I have to go.. and I have a Sunday School class to teach in the morning, so I can't linger. I don't really have anymore to say anyway.

Sam

[icey]

I had to drop out for a while and Dan posted a story about the phone calls. These are troubling because:

1) Natalee was smart, and probably memorized the phone number of the only working cell phone in the MB group.

2) It's quite a coincidence that NH goes missing on the night that cell phone gets a call, some time around 3am. I'd assume it was a distress call from NH, while she was somewhere with more people than the kalpoes and jvds. How would anyone else on the island have this guys cell #, and call it on this same night and at the same time that we assume NH is in trouble???? Too many coindences here, if you believe the call was made it WAS probably made by NH in distress.

3)Another call was made to another cell phone in the group, around 4am? I thought the rumor was that NH made a call to her home in MB. And the voice mail/answering machine had a message from NH. Dan has no info on the content of the call, but it seems to be the call that has BT thinking NH has been kidnapped. Rumored message: "Mom, Help me" & "I don't know these people".

4) If we assume the NH did not have/use her own cell phone on the trip, we can assume that she either rented a disposable cell phone or made the calls with someone elses phone. The later could be quite possible if she was at another location, like a party. A rumored message overheard on the voice mail was "are you making a call" and "get off the phone". Dan does not provide this type of detail on the calls, so maybe these rumored messages are untrue.

If these calls were from Natalee, it would appear that she was alive at 4am and in distress. If this is the case, a death/murder and temporary burial on the beach seems unlikley, as it was getting lighter in pre-dawn. This would also rule out a boat trip, for the same reasons and that by the time the boat returned surely someone would be walking the beach.

Hopefully the cell that originated the call was determined, and the cell site the call routed thru was determined as well. This would give a relative location NH was in, and perhaps provide an area to search for a captive NH or someone who lives there that knows jvds or the kalpoes.

Sorry for the length, but if the calls are true they should provide valuable insight.

icey..

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The message could not be clearly made out by ear and was characterized as being garbled "Aruban" voices. The call is said to have been originated in the "middle of the night" on the first evening of Natalee's disappearance.

A second "missed call" message is said to have been discovered by a female friend and possible vacation roommate of Natalee Holloway while flying home with the group from Aruba. The two groups of students mentioned were on separate flights.

As reported earlier, it is has been said that the remaining chaperone did use Natalee Holloway's cell phone the next day to reach her friends for more information that might have helped in finding Natalee early on in her disappearance. While that timing suggests the second call could have been placed by the chaperone, one source insists the missed call message was time stamped at 4 AM the previous night. That information has not been corroborated.

[tideroller]

JustMe - I think I would be interested in this case whether Natalee was from Alabama or not. It is just a tragic case. It may have something to do with my having lived in two Caribbean countries, due to work, and therefore, I have some firsthand experience with their legal systems. Also, due to a problem that arose with someone I knew, I also know that the US government officials can or will do next to nothing to help an American citizen in those countries. They say they can't interfere. Therefore, I know that Beth and Natalee's best bet is to keep her story in the public's eye and I want to do my small part to help.

[tideroller]

Sam - Joran's mother even admitted that he told her he had had sex with Natalie. He bragged at school about it, too.

[CancunGirl]

tideroller:
Pensé en el otro foro que estabas comunicándote con "OneHappyChica". Gracias, recibí tu comentario.
Buenas noches!

[JustMe]

Tideroller:

I have been to the Caribbean several times and love it there. But this is ridiculous.

I have always said that JVDS and the Brothers Kalpoe had to have help from others because they do not possess the sophistication to outwit the Mayberry Police Department. While I still believe that I am beginning to think that they do possess the sophistication to outwit the Aruban police.

Van Der Straaten makes Andy Taylor and Barney Fife look like Kojak and Columbo.

[justaskin]

Isnt this Dan's board? whoz tideroller?

[Blue Dog]

If Joran was bragging the next day at school about haveing sex with Natalie the LE needs to stop wasting their time and cut the boy loose.
But then maybe they are just keeping him in custody so that he can better help them build the case against Deepak.

[sam]

Well.. tideroller I hope I don't turn into you (and can't stop posting) but I stuck around for a minute.

Like I said... having sex not a crime. Having sex with an intoxicated person not a crime. Having sex with a passed out person a crime. Burden of proof on the prosecution ... if he admits to sex... prove that she was incoherent. Pretty difficult to do beyond a reasonable doubt.

Get a good night's sleep now Tideroller, you deserve it, you have been working two shifts.

Sam