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Sunday, July 31, 2005

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GREAT PHOTO! Thanks Dan. My Aruba bookmark folder is growing larger day by day.

AS ANOTHER REGULAR POSTER SAYS.....

People with nothing to hide hide nothing !

So, wonder why Paul Van der Sloot want let his back yard be searched and the well.??

hummmm

People with nothing to hide hide nothing !

Great job Dan, thank you.


Where is the dump in proximity to this view?

Nice pic DAN.

Does anyone know which direction and how far the vdS house is?

Where is the dump in proximity to this view?

Posted by: FloridaPatty | July 30, 2005 10:43 PM

Far, far off screen to the right.

These locations are relatively close to eachother.

I can see the gardner taking that shortcut. He's taking what I call a "crow's flight" to his bosses house. Not necessarily the quickest route but nonetheless going in a bee line.

I think the landfill is near the airport.

Ask me if I'm ever going to Aruba. (don't bother..no)

That missing travel writer who went to report at Sandels...her parents were on Geraldo. SAME story. "She came here for drugs and sex"..what? is this the local lore they use down there to dismiss missing people? Really creeps me out when you hear the tagline "what happens in XXXX stays in XXXX".

The question is, why take a "dirt" road from his house instead of the "paved" path that was the quickest? Is that what you were getting at?

Interesting. Here's a thought! Are we certain that the gardener and the second woman witness were not having an affair and he was headed toward her home? LOL! That path actually would take him directly past where the boys were parked. Could also explain how come she willingly gave the PI information and then when the police questioned her she freaked out.

Annie not too sure I'm with you on the affair. That's a bit of a stretch.

I can buy that he took the dirt road. I've done that myself, taken a long way around to avoid main roads if I'm not in a hurry. He said he was hot, could have had the AC on in the car or could have had the windows down, enjoying the island breeze while he was driving along. It's plausible.

I thought the gardener was driving by the racquet club at 2:30 to 3 am because he wanted to get to an air conditioned area. Or was that just another of Jossy's ideas? So, the gardener was driving on a dirt road in the wee hours of the morning instead of taking the paved road. Hmmm.
Also, to "!" - I think that Paulus van der Sloot refused Tim Miller for the same reason we all would. What is in it for Mr. van der Sloot to advance Tim Miller's agenda? The property has been searched and the FBI was in on the search (as stated on Greta some while back). This is just a publicity stunt on Tim Miller's part in conjunction with Geraldo Rivera's brother. It's pretty sad that they feel it necessary to invent a story. Think about it, why is this news not even on any other Fox shows? Geraldo is a desperate nothing who became a jounalistic joke a long, long time ago.

I heard a P.Officer say that the trouble with eyewitnesses was if you had 10 of them you had 10 different stories.

My guess is the gardener had another reason for going through the woods. See a woman, smoke a bone, take a pee, something.

FloridaPatty-I have been to Aruba and plan on returning soon. As long as one keeps one's wits and remains in safe groups, it is probably one of the safest places on earth. It is NOT where I let my son go for his graduation trip, however, simply because I didn't want him partying like mad in a foreign country as such a young age. He went to South Padre Island, TX and ironically ended up on MTV Spring Break on TV.

believe they should be looking on other side of island cause why would they tell truth about where they were -
think she is alive and drugged and there is an association with a butterfly with where she is.

South Padre Island is only a few miles to the Mexican border and "boys town." Don't bet he was any safer than Aruba!

mariak-
P Vander Sloot refused anyone as there is guilt - he didnt have to any other time - Greta which is On the Record knows that the FBI wasnt even allowed in when Aruban authorities finally went in with Vanstr..retired....not much inventions..at least in Aruba anyway...

"I think that Paulus van der Sloot refused Tim Miller for the same reason we all would. What is in it for Mr. van der Sloot to advance Tim Miller's agenda?"

I would have done it for my own agenda! To prove that there was nothing to hide. If the Sloots had acted innocent from the beginning, everyone would be rooting for Joran to have a "Get Out of Jail Free" Card. But they act guilty. Joran's attitude to Beth, told "Don't talk," Paulus had to be coaxed out of the bushes when Beth came calling! Then allowing only certain areas of the house to be searched- what in the world good does that do? All the lies and delay.... not good. You know, it is their reputations at stake, so I guess they chose this direction. Where will they be able to go if this blows over and go back to a quiet life? Will Joran ever get another date???

Dan,

Yeah....I vote they send the Radar device over to search the Van Der Slut residence asap!

...including the well and the deserted monkey house next door!

I think they should also film Paulus while this is done---maybe a new Guiness world record for volume of sweat produced by a 'human' in one sweating incident!

He knows something and wont tell.

"People with nothing to hide hide nothing"

Lone War Eagle--(I still maintain she is alive and not on the island unless Poppa Slut did it)

Pardon me, but Dugh Im missing something. Why isnt the "witness" being arrested. It sure seems to me that if one saw someone dump a body in landfill, I would say to myself Gee that sure seems suspicious. Then why didnt he report this incredible act on June 1st when he saw it? I searche through the list to see if this was addressed and didnt find any comment on in. The witness is either lying, which he should be arrested for or he is a criminal himself for not reporting it June 1st when the whole island was out looking for her.

MariaK, I've been to South Padre Island, Port Isabella, great place! I wouldn't go to Aruba now after seeing a "what if" situation play out.
I believe the sloppyness, the corruptness of friend helping friend with a bad situation gone terribly wrong has been made so pathetically apparent I would fear for anyone in my party's safety. I'm with you on staying in groups, safe bet to be sure but even their own officials are admitting fault within the first ten days of the investigation. In the end, one of our children is gone and worst still, may never be given back to her family for conclusion and closure.


I have been the foreperson on a jury before, it was a manslaughter case. I do believe that everyone should have their day in court. Paul VDS refusing to allow Tim Miller to search his property doesn't make him guilty. It's just used as a tool, much like a lie detector test, to rule out people so that investigaters can focus their sights on other things. A select area of the property was searched. A select area of the island was searched. Beth Twitty stated this tonight when she heard what Paul said to Tim. I look at them all and think, what does Paul have to lose? Nothing. It shows he is cooperating, eager to help searchers rule out his son, rule out himself. His actions only cast further suspicion on him. That is FRIEND was heading the investigation further makes me wary of him.

Karma to you PVDS, KARMA.

According to Geraldo tonight, the witness reported this to the Polis on Wed June 2nd. HE WAS IGNORED.

thanks Wreck, now thats a major story in itself. My hats off to the witness. It think with the FBI, private organizations and the Aruba police working side by side, incompetence like ignoring witnesses will be harder to ignore.

Now if the dump witness reported this on 6/2 the odds go up that there is something too it. It has been reported that a serch of that dump area was conducted early in the investigation. But since it was suits from the FBI they could have missed the body. Witness would not seem to be connected to the Jossy show it that is the case.
Reported to have seen a White pickup with three men. I am not falling for the fact that he could ID those three men unless he can also give a license number of the truck. Anybody know what time of day this witness says he saw the event?

those are not "dirt" roads, those are sand roads, it does not look like a place that someone would take a car they really cared about, as kalpoe has been described, without an extremely dire reason. in the picture, if i was taking a girl to the beach for privacy, i would go to the brush where the small clearing is just to the south of the "drop off" point.
near what looks like another small water collection point(looks like a small pond). as to the gardener, was he driving a jeep? that looks like rough terain for a car through some of that brush. sand roads tend to geet a bit soft at the most inoppertune times, and most will avoid them if at all possible. i live on the beach, looks like my neighborhood.

those are not "dirt" roads, those are sand roads, it does not look like a place that someone would take a car they really cared about, as kalpoe has been described, without an extremely dire reason.
FRIED... you read my mind. .................

My son is so particular about his car. To let a friend drive it? No way. On a dirty sandy road late at night? Better be a life or death situation.

hmmmmmm..

Well if the dump witness gave the cops a tag number back in early June,the FBI went to the dump in June, the event was in daylight, they simply placed a child's pool over the "body" and the "witness" saw 3 men and he is now saying that the could ID 2 (Joran and Deepak) then this "witness" has been gotten to by Jossy and he is just another lieing witness and there is no body in that dump.

Looking that the map than Dan has here, it is apparent that the gardner is a lier. Just like the guy at the dump. In June his story was likely a "could have been a body" now with Jossy leading the parade, he saw a blond headed female and he can ID Joran and Deepak but could not tell who the third guy was. And there was a white jeep in play also. What fools.

DAN - Thanks for the picture.
Another great contribution to understanding the case

I just have a deep feeling that Natalee is buried near the Van der Sloot residence.

I really wish that Tim's group would examine that piece of land in concentrict circles with the equipment they have brought to the island.

She's there if anywhere.

I don't understand you conclusions on the route lengths. Considering the severe oblique angle of the photograph it looks to me like the route he took is considerably shorter than the blue route. I have heard that he gardener was walking? Was he? All of this speculation about whether or not someone would drive on sandy roads seems a bit ridiculous. If that is what they are used to, it is no big deal. It's not like America there, where every damed inch is paved. Are there two PIs? A Wood and a Ward? I heard that it was Wood who was working for Jossy. Have people been confusing Ward and Wood?

MAYBE THE TIPS ARE FROM VANSLOOT FRIENDS TO WASTE TIME WITH SEARCHES THAT LEAD NO WHERE

JURON WALKS IN JUST A SHORT TIME IF THEY CAN'T PROVIDE A CRIME SCENE

I thought the gardener was anonymous. How do we know the location of his home?

Dan,
Yeah....I vote they send the Radar device over to search the Van Der Slut residence asap!
...including the well and the deserted monkey house next door!
Posted by: Lone War Eagle | July 31, 2005 12:01 AM

That gets my vote too, Lone War Eagle, and I've been suggesting that for weeks now. If PVS has nothing to hide, he need not fear a search of the abandoned well (cesspool) by Miller of Equusearch.

I thought Red was still asking for donations to help pay for trip. When did he go. And does anyone think they will let him go to the location and report before Fox reports or the family knows anything. Just wondering

What a great idea this is ... Pictures like this will make sure no one knows where the witness lives , and this is a sure fire way for the witness to not be harrassed or threatened !!!

I'm beginning to walk backwards & Scratch my head!!

The media is putting the final choke-hold on this

already destroyed case!!

Doing some search on the internet going back into the investigation and what has happened in the past few months.

In speaking on national radio last Friday night, Nelson Oduber, the island's Prime Minister said that he was deeply concerned over the negative effect the Holloway matter would have on the island's tourism product and its 97,000 people, who depend heavily on tourism. Some are now expressing the view that the authorities are more concerned about the harm done to the country's image rather than seeking justice for Holloway.
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2005/06/14/tours.shtml
..............................................


Anyone remember Joran's blog talking about gang raping?

Recent media reports that one of the suspects had a personal web site that promoted gang culture and violence, including gang rapes, which was removed from the internet, allegedly by the suspect’s father, shortly after he was arrested, have led some observers to question whether this amounted to an attempt to conceal or tamper with evidence by the boy’s father (a “judge-in-training”).

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2005/06/17/issue.shtml

Another Wild Goose Chase

OK this witness who saw someone dump a body is just not credible. Acording to different reports he saw breasts blond hair, and was close enough to read the tags on the truck! What was he 50 feet away. Don't you think someone dumping the body would have seen him? Wouldn't they want a little more privacy?

And why does this witness only come forward something like two months later. Perhaps he made a report and was ignored. He could have been scared of the police. BUT what about the ARMY of international media that have been scouring the island looking for a story!

Get real... if he saw someone dumping a blond female on June 3rd he would have been on Greta the same night getting his fifteen minutes of fame!

Another Wild Goose Chase

OK this witness who saw someone dump a body is just not credible. According to different reports he saw breasts blond hair, and was close enough to read the tags on the truck! What was he 50 feet away. Don't you think someone dumping the body would have seen him? Wouldn't they want a little more privacy?

And why does this witness only come forward something like two months later. Perhaps he made a report and was ignored. He could have been scared of the police. BUT what about the ARMY of international media that have been scouring the island looking for a story!

Get real... if he saw someone dumping a blond female on June 3rd he would have been on Greta the same night getting his fifteen minutes of fame!

FloridaPatty

You said,
"Nelson Oduber, the island's Prime Minister said that he was deeply concerned over the negative effect the Holloway matter would have on the island's tourism "

So was Charles Croes:

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?t=1731

Quote from Charles Croes
"There should be efforts on all our parts not allow anything to tarnish the Aruba image."

========================
complete text:

-----
This evening, I had the unfortunate experience of reading pure vulgarity and rudeness on the aruba.com bb. It offended my senses to the point I had a friend of mine log on and see what he thought. His reactions were similar.
I found it to be my obligatino to post somethig to express my feelings as well as to look for action. I consulted my Aruba FAst Phone partner (wife) and we did so. It is listed below.

The reason I bring this issue to this bb is that what happens on other bb's is not just THEM, but instead it reflects on the island as a whole. There should be efforts on all our parts not allow anything to tarnish the Aruba image.

We at Aruba Fast Phones owe alot to our island and to the visitors that make it work. What was written will draw fire and hopefully in that fire, will draw positive action.

It just would be very nice if all BB functioned like this one. Sadly they don't.

I have copied my posting so that you are up to date on what we decided to post on behalf of our island.

Thanks
Charles
----------------------
SOURCE
--------------------------------
Author: charles (---.setardsl.aw)
Date: 03-05-05 22:02

Open letter to the Aruba Tourism Authority

CC Rory Arends - with hopes that you will pass this on to the correct person.

----------------------------------
Not to long ago, it was a real pleasure to get on this BB and answer questions and perhaps give some insight on my most favorite topic - Aruba. This started as an outgrowth of the (literally) hundreds of "Aruba" and "what to do" questions we recieve every day at the airport kiosk.

This was a board where I remember kids posting that they would be comming to Aruba with their parents and what was there for them to do. If the board was to be rated, it would have gotten a 10+. I would be hard pressed to say that this rating still is there.

The potential is still there, however the rudeness snuck in and then the vulgarity took hold and now both are firmly rooted. I hope that those kids had their questions answered without being subjected to what is currently being written by some.

This does not apply to all that visit or that want to know what is going on. Nor does it apply to those that genuinly love Aruba and want to share.

Not to long ago, it was a pleasure, now it is questionable at best.

This still a good place for information, however Should anyone have to slog through the mire that sometimes exists to learn about Aruba? I ask myself that question and cannot come up with a decent answer.

This BB and the Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA) should understand that aside from being an interesting source of information, that it is a representation of what is apparently tolerated. I cannot say that this is also tolerated on other BB's.

I strongly urge those that belong to the ATA who have the trigger pulling power to make decisions, to do so and to do so to the benefit of the BB , To the ATA and (most importantly) to Aruba.

Registration is needed and some sort of monitoring system is a must. Give this some serious thought since the image of our island is involved.

Charles Croes

-----------------------------------

To the participants of this board, I suggest that you simply state if you agree or if you disagree. Give a short and simple statement because I have a strong feeling that it will be read. The reacton nwill simply be a measure of the level of concern.

Rory, if you can help, and I know you can, pass the word on.

Charles
arubafastphones.com

It seems incredulous that if someone actually did see a body being dumped at a garbage dump, wouldn't you make an effort to return to the exact spot and actually take a better look, when the dumpsters party had left,then call authorities? Why would anyone just call the police first, without looking? A sane person would look more closely. Hmmmm.... that million dollar reward is bringing out the shysters. However, if he did call police immediately, why wasn't the body found. It is apparent that justice will not be meted out to those 3 young men or the father. I will NEVER visit Aruba after this incident, knowing that the police have done a major cover-up and bungled the case and their arrogance not to allow the FBI to truly participate and give direction, has scared me off this island paradise FOREVER. Shame on Van Der Straaten and the police force.

And why the hell, do the police not obtain a search warrant to check out the well on VDS residence? What is with that? Oh, PVDS is one of their buddies, I get it. This cover-up will never be solved. My heart goes out to the Holloway family. Shame on Deepak and Satish and Joran and Paul. May God's judgement be the one they are most afraid of.
Canada Goose

Shame on the Aruban authorities for covering up the truth and for allowing the "wanna be" judge to help his son lie his way out of jail. Mr. Vandersloot is behind all those fabricated stories about these new witnesses (possibly friends of the Vandersloots) who claim they saw two, three men dump a woman’s body. It’s only a ploy to waste time. If the shoe were on the other foot, these suspects would have cracked in June.

So where is Natalee? She is nowhere to be found, not in the pond, not in the waste. It is time to check the Vandersloot property. I wonder what they would find?? Which leads me to ask, if the blond hair on the duct tape is not Natalee's, whose hair is it...perhaps another victim.

My heart goes out to Natalee’s family and friends.

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