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Monday, July 25, 2005

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» Reward On Natalee Holloway Case Rises To $1 Million As Yet Another Witness Comes Forward (Updated) from Hyscience
It appears there is a witness who claims he knows where the body of Natalee is buried, and that Joran claims Deepak Kalpoe raped and murdered Natalee on the beach (Video link). [Read More]

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You also need to remember Joran was probably drunk too..... so if she said leave me alone, him being drunk probably said, fine... got up and left..

Posted by: *SouthernBELLE
====================================

That makes sense. Perhaps he then called Deepak, was concerned about leaving her even though she wanted him too, and asked Deeps to check up on her, make sure she got home. (Do like to think that Joran he would have been decent enough for this,well maybe he was.)

Perhaps when the three guys made up the Holiday Inn story at first they just did not want to be blamed for her being missing since they left her on beach, and perhaps Joran at that time did not know where she was. Perhaps Deepak told Joran that she wouldn't go with him either, or that she was gone when he went back to beach. Maybe Joran realized what had happened only after they were first questioned.

This would also be consistent with what some of the psychics have posted about seeing Natalee and Joran being together and that it was mutual, that she was very intoxicated/passed out. Next another guy went to check on her to make sure she was OK, but instead raped her, as did a third male. Most of the psychics who have this type vision say that Joran liked her and did not want an harm to come to her. It should be noted that the psychics are all over the place, and some believe she is on a ship or oil tanker as of today.

Dennisaok:
Its COJONES, not cajones, cajones mean drawers, like a chest of drawers.

Posted by: oneyka | July 26, 2005 12:40 AM

stop being so critical we all know it means BALLS

annie: Joran made his bed and he had to lay in that bed when he told the lie about the Holiday Inn. You know what Jonnie Cochran says. Tell a lie to the police and you have put your foot in a bear trap that only evidence is going to remove you from. Daddy can't help you there.
As for PVDS giving the boys "legal advice", if PVDS knew nothing of what had happened to NH early on, he was doing what any good father would do, protect his son from being accused of something he did not do. And if PVDS knew nothing about what happened to NH early on, he would have no reason not to give the same "legal advice" to the Kalpoe brothers.

none of this makes sense as I siad in my earlier posts....there just would not be enought time for all that to happen and joran just leaving natalee alone sleeping on a beach? I doubt it - if this witness is credible who said he saw them all in the car at 3am there is just no way - what about the witness who knows where natalee is buried? how come there were no searches to day??? it makes no sense they would jkust wait to search a possible burial site and risk her being moved or more evidence lost and there was no word of it on major news networks....and the same day her parents up the reward to one million dollars for her safe return something is up - even though the money comes from donations they still decide how to offer it so much for her whereabouts dead or alive and so much for her return alive an dsafe

if joran would lie about where they left natalee toher own moms face I don't doubt he would lie tot he police and say someone else did it they all have lied and changed stories ten thousand times I odn't trust any of them or their parents

I agree with you calista, now that the reward is 1 million you will get a lot stupidity in these days.

Concerning the Million $ reward for the safe return of NH. If you lived on the very top of a 2,000 foot mountain, I would insure your home against flood damage for $50 a year. But I would not cover broken water pipes.

1:30 am - natalee leaves cnc's with joran
in between natalee and joran go to beach fall asleep and he says there was sexual activity between them

he then leaves her there walks home texts deepak who goes back to beach kills natalee after raping her and then somehow hides her and goes back and gets satish and joran and they are all seen in car together by raquet club at 3 am

NO WAY NO HOW IT MAKES NO SENSE

Jessie the point is, there have been reports that he has financially supported their legal expenses and he was the one to advise them which lawyers to hire and he still seems to have some sort of connection there. He also liked about where his son was (at the Wyndam) and has done some other things like withdraw money early hours that same night/morning and went to pick up Joran at 4 AM. I also seem to recall that in one of his interviews with the Dutch TV when he and his wife were contending about Joran's innocence, he said that Joran told him the whole story of what happened and he knows that his son and his friends were innocent. That sounds to me like he is covering for the Kalpoes as well. I think you need to look at all actions. And, to be honest, I agree with Dave Holloway and Jug Twitty when they state that they would like to see PVS come out and show concern for his son. He just has clammed up and kept quiet. I realize that there are cultural differences, but you could see that Anita had no problem speaking out for her boy (until they went to the King house in hiding). She has always been more open and willing to let the press get to know Joran better. But he hasn't. Actions always speak louder.

so ive been thinking about this post for awhile and here are the things that i see that make sense and dont make sense...

first, this theory does tie up a lot of loose ends. however, you have to question how does this tie into the racquet club witness? is it conceivable to believe that natalee was already disposed of by the time the witness had seen the three at the racquet club and they were there perhaps cleaning up in the lockerroom/bathroom that joran most likely had access to? or is she being held in either the trunk or the floor of the car? and if so, would that not throw out the "we buried her at the beach" claim made by joran? in theory, no it would not but why would they go to the racquet club first and then return to bury her? if deepak raped and murdered natalee by himself, why is deepak sitting on the outside and joran on the inside? if this were to be true you have to believe joran would have cracked by now by himself...unless he was an accomplice to her disposal which essentially means that no matter how you cut it, all three are involved...some possibly more guilty than others in her death but no less guilty in her disposal. to me, however, the biggest hole in this story as it relates to the claim being made by joran is if he did in fact have consensual sex with natalee on the beach and fell asleep with her, why does he wake up and leave her there sleeping? does he not atleast wake her to tell her he is leaving? not mentioning that he atleast made her aware of the fact that he was leaving no doubt leaves a questionable impression upon the character of joran and the validity of his story, in my opinion. if he wakes her, she would at the very least probably return to her hotel on foot if she has to. leaving her on the beach asleep is almost like purposely leaving her in a vulnerable state. who leaves a sleeping girl on the beach, unknown to who or what may come a long, or was that the point? how does he get home? does he actually walk home? is this where his claim sometime back comes from that he walked home? however, if he can walk home by himself he surely could have walked natalee back to her hotel if he was indeed entirely innocent. or does he meet his dad at the mcdonalds as it has been speculated and taken home. if the VDS's are entirely innocent in this theory and he does pick up his son, why doesn't PVDS take natalee back to her hotel and then bring joran home. is it because joran didn't want his father to know he was having sex on the beach with a girl? at what time does joran leave natalee on the beach and what time is it believed that deepak returned to the beach after going home? conceivably, it could very well overlap the timeframe in which the racquet club fits into this mystery. if that were the case, id be more likely to believe a witness rather than the story of an already proven habitual liar. food for thought. i need to stop, im racking my brain.

Actions always speak louder.

Posted by: annie | July 26, 2005 01:23 AM

exactly.......and when you have a lie already made up about what happened BEFORE anyone ever knows natalee is missing that seals the deal for me - you are guilty of something

1:30 am - natalee leaves cnc's with joran
in between natalee and joran go to beach fall asleep and he says there was sexual activity between them

he then leaves her there walks home texts deepak who goes back to beach kills natalee after raping her and then somehow hides her and goes back and gets satish and joran and they are all seen in car together by raquet club at 3 am

NO WAY NO HOW IT MAKES NO SENSE

Posted by: calista | July 26, 2005 01:22 AM

Everyone keeps talking about the beach. We already know all three of them have lied again and again. If something REALLY happpened on the beach and they are trying to cover it up... would they tell everyone IT HAPPENED on the beach? I don't think so.

Here is a link to a map of the Aruba Racquet Club. http://arubatennisclub.com/about/images/map.jpg

Isn't that fairly close to the Holiday Inn? The witness (if there is one) says he saw them at the Racquet Club. HAS ANYONE SEARCHED THERE? Are there boats close by?

I know what you mean complex brian. Some things add up but then others don't. That is always the problem with this case. It is a very interesting puzzle. The pieces are there probably in each of the "statements", but since we don't have all the pieces, it is hard to put them together.

if these three do not confess we will never know the truth unless natalee is found alive and can talk or sadly dead and there is dna proof if they even find her all we can hope is this "witness" who says he knows where she is is real and credible but I have my serious doubts if there was not even a search done today and no offense to dan who is just working hsrd to find the truth but he has to rely on sources that may not always be true......so many thigns about this case have been corrupt I don't trust anything until an FBI agent holds a publ;ic press conference and says they found her or they know what happened - all I know is they have until sept 4th or joran will walk

OK
its all speculation, despite the witnesses said, thats what were doing now. like to know what the DNA teat results were.

So did anyone watch MSNBC tonight. Did they ever explain what happened to that earlier report today about a second witness that knew where they had placed the body? I was curious about that one but didn't hear anything on FOX tonight. Was it followed up at all on that station?

Annie: I believe that much of your post was filled with speculation, rumor and media misrepresentation of the matter. And I doubt that JVDS told his father the truth about anything related to this case until very recently.
HE lied to his parents at first, just like he lied to the police.
And I could not care less what the stepfather thinks. That man is a blooming idiot. I like the natural father tho.

how in the world can 3 kids who have never commited a crime before (as far as we know) and a failed judge know so much that they can hide a body so well nobody can find it and there is not one shred of physical evidence anywhere? how? even if the klpoes washed their car how could they get every bit? police have things like luminol and other ways to trace dna even if it has been washed........I mean how could they commit a perfect crime and yet screw up their stories so much? none of this makes sense to me....there is something more there has to be

So Jessie, are you saying you know what happened then? I think everyone here is speculating and theorizing because we don't have very many facts and only what the media has reported. I am not sure what your point is. You are acting as if you know something that the rest of us don't so care to share? If not, what is the problem? I don't understand why you have an issue if people still believe that Joran and possibly his father is involved?

That raquet ball club shure keeps late hours.

No one seems to sleep on that island. LOL! Seems all kinds of places keep late hours.

this is 3 girls we know about that ahve disappeared in or around aruba and other islands with no trace at all......how weird

this is too confusing I am lost......if this was reported in jorans early confession why is he the only one in jail? it seems too odd joran would just leave natalee on the beach alone

Posted by: calista
======================================
Because Joran has told different versions of the story, and the PIs don't know what happened yet.They have to hold somebody and Joran is who the Twitty's want held. Also, because the brothers are two and they came up with a version of the story that they both are telling, and they have only changed their version once. Also, what would have happened if they had released Joran without solving the situation? Think about it! Need I elaborate. Think not.

Is Joran being held for his own protection? Probably.

And what if Deepak (who was the person being referred to outside C&Cs as the known drug dealer) was the one who gave/sold Natalee or some of the MB kids drugs. (Have the MB kids been quizzed about where/ from whom they bought drugs? Some were doing them, you know. This may be an important key to who took Natalee.) What if Natalee overdosed - a very likely scenario since she was not accustomed to drinking and could have died from alcohol poisoning alone, but if coupled with a drug, probably for unfortunate OD is raised. Whoever provided her with the drug (as well as their supplier) could be found guilty of mans lauder.

I am still back to thinking that the drug cartel/mafia is involved in hiding her. Joran may not have had anything to do with giving her drugs, harming her or causing her to disappear and he may be afraid to talk if he did find out, or thinks he found out, during the time he was free. What if part of his story change is he doesn't really know for sure what happened, but only learned pieces and is doing the same thing we are, trying to piece together. The drug dealers might kill Joran or his family if he points a finger at them.

No way that three young men were successful in hiding Natalee on this small island or getting her off the island by themselves. I do not get the impression that any of them have been involved in past with this type thing. If Deepak was a drug dealer he probably was a small fry yokel (he doesn't display the kind of wealth that the big boys would have.) If he had strong ties to the drug cartel/suppliers, he would have been able to get them to take care of getting the body out of there. No way they would have wanted any traces that could have come back to be used against them.

I don't like this line of logic though, because I still hope that somehow, some way, that Natalee is still alive.

Another point not being stressed, is that the island was saturated by an estimated 8,000 people who were there for the music festival being held behind the Holiday Inn. The last event was the night Natalee disappeared. People from California, apparently coordinated the event and they did not have background checks on their workers. (I read about this in another blog, so realize that this is the level of reliability or not that one can assume for this information.) People would have come in by little boats for the event and there would have been lots of guests on the island that night, some possibly with small boats docked out at fisherman's dock close to Marriott. Anyone could have connected with her or snatched her up (maybe even offering a moonlit boat ride) after Joran left.

again you have to ask if there is truly a witness who knows where natalee is buried why weren't the police all over it today? I odn't believe they would just hang out and say ok she'll still be there - no they'd be all over it with the fbi and so would the press there was nothing today

Anyone could have connected with her or snatched her up (maybe even offering a moonlit boat ride) after Joran left.

Posted by: shonane | July 26, 2005 01:43 AM

nope - if that was the case why did joran and co have a lie ready before anyone even knew she was missing or the news was involved? innocent people do not do that

Belle and Dan

thanks for the laugh i needed that today!!

Real potential mind your business LOL!!

now stay on topic Dan you troll!!

annie: I don't have a problem with any opinion that anyone has. I just have an opinion at this point.. And I like you, am just waiting for some evidence to support something in this case. And IMO that evidence is not going to support the popular media theory of this case.

if carlos n charlies closes at 1 30 am and that is when natalee left with them how could there be time for joran to go to beach with natalee, sleep, leave her there, walk home, text deepak, and then deepak go back, rape and kill natalee, hide her then go back and get joran and satish for the witness account to be true that he saw them at 3 am??? maks no sense

Posted by: calista
=========================================
What if the witness was wrong about Joran driving? The witness said Joran tried to cover his face. What if, given all the press, the witness now assumes it was Joran - it was night you know? What if the person driving was someone else?

calista - Joran had a lie ready even before then. He lied when he met her and implied he was a tourist like she was. He lied when he told her he wouldn't be at C&C's and then showed up there. Then the evening of events that we still have no answers for, but yet he had lies ready long before the night was over and they have kept on coming out since. I have to ask why someone would lie from the very beginnnig and before anyone considered this a "kidnap" or any other crime case. I find it all very baffling if he isn't involved at all. It makes no sense. No, I still contend he has some role in this.

if carlos n charlies closes at 1 30 am and that is when natalee left with them how could there be time for joran to go to beach with natalee, sleep, leave her there, walk home, text deepak, and then deepak go back, rape and kill natalee, hide her then go back and get joran and satish for the witness account to be true that he saw them at 3 am??? maks no sense

Posted by: calista
=========================================
What if the witness was wrong about Joran driving? The witness said Joran tried to cover his face. What if, given all the press, the witness now assumes it was Joran - it was night you know? What if the person driving was someone else?

Posted by: shonane | July 26, 2005 01:48 AM

even if it wasnt joran at the wheel it still makes no sense there isn't enought time and jorans dad being involved and withdrawing money it makes nos ense

Joran will smile at the end of all this.

Those are indeed interesting developments. Yet even with those developments, persons are still TRYIN TO FIND a way to justify their vilification of him.

So far he is only guilty of
1. Tellin a few lies

2. Adbicating his responsibility to the girl - by leavin her on the beach

3. Contributing to the ordeal of the security guards

Not what many of u have been tryin to pin on him for the past few weeks. He may still be, but that has notbeen proven as yet... i doubt it will be.

I think that it is like this concerning Joran.
One can be a take part in a bank robbery without killing the teller or knowing where the money was hidden by someone else.

Has anyone seen "Gabriel" post lately.

Let me know if you have seen a recent post. Hope she is okay.

This is my thought. Wasn't there a time when 3 amigos said Natalee wouldn't get out of the car? What if that was because they were trying to drop her off some distance away from HI, like near the Marriott. Maybe she was upset because of what had been done to her? Maybe that's when she slugged Joran, giving him the bruise, and with his anger issues he just blew. (I never understood why the lie about her saying not to help her when she 'stumbled'. Who would want 'help' from the people that just raped you.)

Hi, Lone War Eagle! I agree with you. Or at least the three of them did this together, what ever it was, having sex, handing her over, being there when she died. Joran's dad would not help the kalpoe kids if his son was not involved just as much as they were.

Posted by: pamy
=====================================
He might if none of them actually deliberately hurt her. And why wouldn't PVS question all of them? I would talk to anyone who might know anything if my son was Joran and was being accused of having something to do with her disappearance. I would also counsel all of them about the law. What if the "no body no crime"counsel was simply that if she ran off, or was kidnapped, that no one could convict them of a bogus murder rap? What if that is all this counsel was about?

PBS seems to have a respectable reputation. I still am not convinced that he was involved at all. On another board, there was a belief by some posters that PBS had a mistress that he was seeing that night while Joran's mom was out of town,and that some of the story change things and lying was an attempt to hide from his mom that PVS was occupied. Another rumor -

People keep referring to the "three" saying they had sex with Natalee. I understood that only Joran said this, and had the impression that he liked her.

if i were paulus and this were true i would be as adamant to get my son out as NH's parents are to find their daughter

so why isn't he??

and where is deepak's dad to defend his son too for that matter??

thank you dan as usual you do a great job

Beth Twitty has said repeatedly that she KNOWS the Kalpoes "know what happened to Natalee" Mother's intuition?

And again...all of this "eyewitness testimony", and yet the Kalpoes are walking free in Aruba and protesting the FBI's involvement. If there was this much evidence against the security guards that the lying Kalpoes first implicated....they would be under the jail right now. And some people have the nerve to call Americans (and Alabamians) racist...

All this stuff coming out about the Kalpoes could be part of the spin from Joran's family, friends and connections to direct the suspicion away from him.

If the $1M reward is being offered it is because someone thinks that it is possible that Natalee was sold.

If she was sold, then there was someone willing to pay for her. Maybe in this case the only required payment was a promise to get rid of the evidence.

The evidence that they would have needed to get rid of would be that Natalee was raped, not by one man but by two or three. If it was only by Joran, there would be no need, he could claim consensual relations. The consensual sex claim would be harder to make with the evidence showing three-on-one, which could be easily detected w/ a rape kit, and the girl quite possibly a virgin to boot- so they couldn't take her to the hospital in the event of drug over-dose or accidental injury.

With all of the gambling going on on the island and the sex-trade and drug trade going on around the island, one would expect that there would have been some talk of human traffiking as a way to pay off debts. I would be willing to bet that Joran knew who was available for that sort of thing. He may have even toyed with the idea in his head, just like he fantisized about a 3-way with an American highschool girl. Except Natalee was a good girl and resisted and he had to give her too much drugs, or he choked her to to get her to pass out and she wouldn't wake up. He may have been at a loss what to do, and then he thought of the contact that he had made with a human trafficker-- he thought she might die and he couldn't get her to the hospital because of the 3-way evidence. He probably thought that this was better than her dying, and a hell of a lot better than them finding the evidence that he 1)drugged her 2) raped her 3) neglected to get medical help for her-- he said it himself: "no body, no crime".

I don't think that Joran intended to kill her, he might not even have thought that 3-way sex would be such a terrible violation of her, if she was all drugged up. He probably thought that Natalee would consent because she liked him, that he would drug her and she would consent to the others too and it would be all in good fun, she would fall asleep and not even remember it or would be too embarrassed to say anything in the morning. But since she was injured or overdosed everything went hay-wire for Joran and his friends.

"Natalee, along with some other Mountain Brook girls was rather taken with the young Dutch boy"

Who were these other girls. Of all people, they would have been the most observant of what was happening to NH.

Alas, remember the reported text message by Joran, "242Nite".

What IF cell phone tracking shows Deepak Kalpoe in the area of the beach by the Marriott at 4am rather than at his home in the Haystack area.? And we know that it has been reported that cell phone tracking shows that he was home at 4am.
And what IF there are no phone calls received by PVDS between 1am and 4am? I beleive that is what we are going to learn sooner or later.

Make that: We know that cell phone tracking is reported to show Joran at home at 4am.

cant let it go-

you and i follow a similar theory. i think its highly possible the boys offered up their story to absolve themselves of a smaller crime in comparison and by doing so implicated themselves into a much bigger crime.

in·ept ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-pt)
adj.
Not apt or fitting; inappropriate.

1.Displaying a lack of judgment, sense, or reason; foolish: an inept remark.
2.Bungling or clumsy; incompetent: inept handling of the account.
3. The handling of the Natalee Holloway case by the Aruban authorities.

I myself am lost as to what the truth is here...there have been so many lies and false leads and confessions and the police have made a mess of things ontop of that so who knows what is true or not....all I can say is I look at what we know to be true and what just does not make sense and there are a million things I can go into that make no sense or are suspect but we'd be here all night......what I know is those boys had a story made up before anyone knew natalee was missing - that tells me they knew she was missing and why - today we have these new "witnesses" one who says they know where matalee is buried but yet no major news is reported on this and there are no searches to day for a body and at the same time this info is reported the reward for natalee returned alive is upped to one million..........leaves me with alot of questions and no answers except to think we know WAY less than some know in this case

Re: Stories by the 3 Amigos: It's not like Joran or the Kalpoes had any decent adult guidance that would lead them to do the right thing..Paulus is obviously scum, and the Kalpoes' mother never struck me as the June Cleaver type, either. Her line about "we are not even going on vacation because we don't want to give the impression we are fleeing" is BS. Their attorney told them they were getting an OJ Simpson sized break, and they better keep their noses clean and stay put. They are still suspects. Why are they so afraid of the FBI?

I would like to know what this "shocking info" is that beth holloway and her husband keept saying they had but never told...........or why beth holloway keeps saying she does not regret at all changing the wording on natalees posters to 'kidnapped" from missing........there has to be alot more to this.....I know Joran and friends are involved but Iodn't see them as smart enough to pull this off alone

Anyone could have connected with her or snatched her up (maybe even offering a moonlit boat ride) after Joran left.

Posted by: shonane | July 26, 2005 01:43 AM

nope - if that was the case why did joran and co have a lie ready before anyone even knew she was missing or the news was involved? innocent people do not do that

Posted by: calista | July 26, 2005
==========================================
He may have heard she was missing by the time the Twitty's came to his house at 3:00 am next morning. I imagine there was quite a rumor mill going on during that day on this small island when she didn't show for her flight.

If he left her on beach, or at an after hours party, he would not have wanted to tell them that. Perhaps he did think she would show up. One report said he said (when talking to the people who came to his house) that he wanted to try and help them find her, and that his dad and Deepak told him not to talk. (most attorney would tell anyone in this circumstance to do this and wait until they had an attorney present and did at local police station - especially if it seemed like folks were ready to blame him. And this would occur, even if PVS did not have any idea what had happened or if Joran had done nothing to harm her.)

The lie? A safe strategy to keep them from going after him,saying that they dropped her off at her hotel. It also could have easily been made up on the spot because it is exactly what he should have done.

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