Natalee Holloway Update

The lack of information available as regards the Natalee Holloway disappearance continues to trouble many Americans. Numerous rumors and viewpoints abound and often conflict in the vacuum imposed by a less than transparent judicial system some suggest is more in line with an old world monarchist-based philosophy.

An increasingly more Democratic world, most particularly the United States, unaccustomed and uncomfortable with almost any cloak of of secrecy in public affairs watches and hopes that some secretive form of justice might emerge from behind the curtain of a still on going investigation. Yet, as each day passes, both casual and legal observers continue to grow more doubtful.

Some of the first Internet-based reports of the disappearance emerged here on an Aruban-based message board through postings attributed but unconfirmed as originating from Mountain Brook, Alabama.

My best friend is at a prayer service for her right now. She hasn't heard anything yet. Thanks for everyone's concern. We have all made stupid decisions, maybe not so drastic, but she is supposedly a great girl who doesn't drink much. She just had too much to drink, and that, mixed with her age is not a good combination.

The investigation has focused on Joran Van der Sloot, son of a failed judge to be as a result of reports that the boy was the last one seen with Natalee Holloway. But even that report can be called into question - perhaps first by the unconfirmed Internet-based report below.

My husband and I were in Aruba last week and spent time with the girls on The DePalm tours snorkel/booze cruise. We saw Natalie later that night at Carlos and Charlies and we commented that she was up to partyubg(sic) that night because of the exhaustive day we had on the boat. When we saw her leave she left by herself. No one was with her but we did notice some local guys talking to her while she was in there. I do not know if this will help but my heart goes out to the family and I can not believe this has happened.I live 4000 miles away outside of Detroit, Michigan and I feel like it happened to somone(sic) I know having spent tome(sic) with them on the boat. I even have pictures of them.I will pray for her and her family. Sincerly(sic) John and Michele Gumm

I've since spoken with multiple reliable sources with direct knowledge of events of the night Natalee Holloway disappeared. One Internet-based, un-related and as yet unconfirmed report did begin to paint a troubling picture of events at Carlos and Charlies that night as far back as June 8. It's a picture many Americans and American parents may find troubling.

"Thursday we rented Harley's from Larry at Big twin HD. We did a 5 hour tour of the island went to Charlies and what a cool place that is. The gang of high school seniors from Alabama arrive YIKES the quiet has ceased!!! I dont want to go into the going ons with these kids because we all know what has happened and I really dont think its appropriate to ruin my trip report with details but there are A LOT of details to be told".

Internet-based reports like the above are being provided for context, but are not being relied upon in any manner to confirm this report. The information I am posting has resulted from actual conversations with real people with confirmed identities from Aruba to Alabama who are directly aware of events of that evening. However, even that will likely leave an air of mystery.

I've learned that one of the FBI's concerns early on in this investigation went to how many of the graduates in attendance on the trip remembered things clearly as a result of the heavy partying that went on during portions of the trip, particularly it's concluding and now seemingly tragic final night.

As one Mountain Brook Mother told me, "I feel that it is time for the parents, students, and members of the Mountain Brook community to step back and look at this scenario realistically. We need to stop playing the blame game - we are pointing fingers at everyone; the Arubans, the Dutch, the media, etc. We are a community in denial ... The bottom line is that our kids got caught up in the culture at Carlos and Charlies and were behaving wildly that night - dancing provocatively, doing body shots - I shudder to think what we might have seen had we been flies on the wall that night ... The dangerous part of the whole deal was that they were out of their element - they are young and inexperienced and were with people from all over the world ... the world is full of kooks and our kids were not behaving like ladies or gentlemen."

None of the individuals I spoke with for this report expressed anything but sincere compassion and understanding for the family of Natalee Holloway. As reported here, the trip was seen almost as a Rite of passage for the group of teens from Mountain Brook. Also, graduating seniors from across America regularly undertake such trips without tragic result.

Additionally, also as reported here, no parent I spoke with suggested any wrong doing on the part of chaperone's, some pointing out that along with a common knowledge of what the trip might entail, waivers were signed and chaperone's appear to have honored their obligations under that understanding.

One witness did have knowledge that, along with many of the graduates from Mountain Brook, Natalee Holloway, from all accounts a decent and self-respecting young woman was an active participant in the partying, as per the above.

No one should interpret the above as a statement of opinion by me that Natalee Holloway or Beth Twitty are in anyway to blame in what is likely a terrible tragedy. In my opinion they represent only two of many individual Americans who could have fallen victim to events of a celebratory night in a foreign and now possibly fatal foreign land.

This report is the first in a three and possibly four part series, depending on weekend developments covering events in and around the disappearance of Natalee Holloway to be completed this weekend. That's not a ploy to make this web log attract viewers. Given my wrok schedule, were I to complete the entire report tonight, it would not get the treatment it deserves.

I'll get them up as quickly as I can - perhaps even completed by tomorrow.

Comments

[Blue Dog]

annie: international capability cell phones have GPS because they use communication satelites as well as land towers to communicate. The GPS communicates with the satellite constantly to tell your carrier where you are in the covered by your cell phone plan.

[THolloway]

sa·la·cious (sə-lā'shəs) adj.

"Appealing to or stimulating sexual desire; lascivious. Lustful; bawdy.

[From Latin salāx, salāc-, fond of leaping, lustful, from "salīre", to leap -as in a presumptive leap between logical points in an argument.]
-----------------------------
I didn't quite get the part where partying leads to murder. Please explain.

[Dan]

WB2 That kidnapping and murder took place in Aruba, Iraq - not on the island of Aruba. It has nothing to do with anything here. It was first addressed here about 3 weeks ago.
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/typo_likely_in_.html

[rabroy]

The threat of the ongoing cover up should be taken seriously and proactive action needs to be taken.A secret investigation needs to be continued by the Holloways and Twittys. Probably the cove up game plan anticipates Beth would finally give up and then Joran would be released after the 60 days and then the investigation ends due to lack of evidents.Those respnsible for the desapearance go free and Papa Sloot won't spill the beans about covering up some big fish in the past because the big fish have paid back by covering him and his kid.Then we have a perfect crime on the table. Surely the US cannot just fold its arms and watch this fiasco!

[calista]

but raboy that is exactly what the us is doing - by us I mean our president and his staff - the senator from alabama wrote tot hem explaining the case and the sloppy invesigation so far and hey have done nothing......our president coudl use a great influence here to help get this case tot he right people but no...he is too busy getting our military shot at

[calista]

and I know someone on here will prob yell at me and get all worked up about what I said about the president if they support the war in Iraq so before you do....my husband is in the army and training to be a linguist in arabic and most likely will go to Iraq and I will never support sending our men and women to a place that had nothing to do with 9/11 just to make a point......and then on top of it leaving them over there withou the equipment to prptect themselves while you are safe in the white house...many people feel it is time to be pulled out of there but not our president.......as sad as it is the people in Iraq will continie to bomb and be crazy for their causes and there is nothing we can do for that besides lose more men and women .....ok I am done now back t natalee

[calista]

and about these bones found and aruba doing nothing with tem because they say the "forensic" person is on vacation.....ummmm gee we have the fbi just sitting there all this time offering it's resources and aruba refuses to use them....I am pretty sure they have a forensic person or two or a hundred............just another example of how aruba is either covering up or just trying to not need america's help which it clearly DOES

[Sgt.Sally]

DT
I can see that you definitely have an agenda. You have been harping on at least two boards trying to minimize the importance of Dan's disclosures. As far as I can see you are part of the spin squad.
Knowing they lied about "drinking responsibly" impeaches the credibility of their other statements.

The reason that they have not been talking about the trip is shame. They are ashamed of their conduct. They know that when it all comes out they will have brought shame to their community.

[Shari]

Just a thought:

Could the "no body, no crime" comment infer that maybe Natalee WAS taken to Venezuela or another country? Think about it. PVDS is sure a body won't be found on Aruba. Any chance she IS still alive? Are they checking these other places, off tof the island of Aruba? Still holding onto whatever little hope is left.

[less0305]

After witnessing what happened with my 19 year old daughter at a Carlos & Charlie's in Cozumel......it makes me shudder to think what happens to young impressionable kids who are traveling without their parents. Once the waiters (all male-funny, I didn't see any female waitresses) determined she was over 18, they brought her FREE drink after drink after drink. Of course, being with her parents, she didn't drink the alcoholic drinks. She just kept pushing them over to her dad and I. But with her mom and dad sitting right there, they quite obviously did all they could to get her drunk with FREE alcoholic drinks. I can only imagine what might have happened had we not been there. Suffice it say, my youngest daughter - as with my oldest daughter - will not go on a "party" trip outside the U.S. upon high school graduation. I know bad things happen here in the good ole U.S.A., but at least here there are some safe guards in place as far as the drinking and gambling age....AND my own government would be investigating something bad should something unfortunate thing happen.....AND should some bastard overserve my daughter for the purpose of helping others take advantage of her I would have the ability for retribution by way of own our court of law.

[Shari]

Did they ever find out WHAT substance was found in the trunk? I only heard that they ruled out blood. Could it have been vomit, as from excessive drinking? Could it have been bodily fluid expelled after one passes? Just searching for answers like the rest of you.

[andy]

Obvious Aruban Polis and gov't is doing everything to aggravate TexasEquusearch and the Holloways to leave the island. Their tourist web-site says the FBI fully participated in the search and investigation; but the feds stated they were not allowed to; they sent Equusearch on wild goose chases; they allowed the suspects to get rid of evidence before their arrest, they are going to blackmail the Holloways into being nice or the search stops; taping their statements that the Arubans have been good investigators; and when they return if they say anything bad; well, they will say - see they lie too. The island leaders are pathalogical liars whom are playing smoke and mirrors for tourist dollars. Karma (what goes around comes around) and anyone whom demands a mother appologize to the suspects and the island for calling a criminal a criminal whom is a suspect in her daughters disappearance and possible is at the bottom of my list and will always stay there regardless of any future action. There is no appology for cutting the heart out of a greiving mother.

[patrick]

excellent work as usual Dan...thanks! Keep it coming.

Patrick

[Momwith2incollege]

My heart goes out to Natalee's family. Let us please stop second guessing her Mom's decision to let her go to Aruba. I have a son entering his junior year in college and a daughter (5 or 6 days older than Natalee)entering her Sophmore year in college. My daughter started college when she was 17 years old! I have had to make decisions with both of these children that worried me to death while they were gone. When you have a child that is 18 years old and wants to go on a trip with 100 or so of their friends, it is very hard to say NO! At some point you have to give them wings and trust that everything you have instilled in them will stay with them. It seems to me that Beth was a good Mom, a Mom that loved her daughter. She must have done a good job raising her, from what i have heard she was basically a good kid with good grades and received a full ride to college. I have raised two great kids with decent grades-but no full ride. I honestly feel in my heart that Natalee did not just say, "h, I am going with these guys for the night"it is just not in her character and I am sure she spoke to her mom about situations like this many many times. She was either drugged or tricked somehow. My daughter is the same age as Natalee and her and I have discussed this situation. She just doesn't understand how Natalee was able to go off on her own. My daughter went to Myrtle Beach, SC last year for their school trip after graduation (NO CHAPERONES) and the girls NEVER let anyone be by themselves while they were out. They all stuck together and if they saw anyone in a situation grabbed them and said "ok you're done". It baffles her how her friends let her go.

[Shari]

Could it be that they're working this investigation on several fronts? Like one in Aruba and one in Venezuela? Maybe they're trying to give the appearance that she is dead, when in fact, they're following other leads in another country? Any chance of that being the case??

[Shari]

I'm sure Dan is following up on those photos as we speak. I feel it was genuine.

[Kelli]

I for one never doubted Natalee was drinking and maybe even drunk.Doesn't matter to me as that's no cause to be murdered,now is it?

[sam]

Finally, some truthful reporting.

Yes, the truth will eventually be told. Strange that it takes so long. So many people have accepted the mantra of "don't blame the victim" that they simply don't report the story correctly anymore. I was amazed in the interviews I saw with some of the Mountain Brook kids how withdrawn they were, almost like they were trying to avoid "self incrimination" or had been told to shut up. Many of these kids will eventually tell their stories (although maybe it will take some "checkbook journalism" to make that happen).

I saw early postings about "body shots" at Carlos 'n Charlies in the comments on this news blog and they were shouted down by other posters wanting to protect Natalee's image (as though somehow that might bring her back). I also saw one very funny (in what is called a tongue-in-cheek style) posting that described Natalee as being at the bar just doing Christian witnessing. It was a very hilarious way to illustrate how ridiculous the varnishing of the Natalee image of her likely behavior that night had gotten to on the blog comments. (However, that great post got deleted, I figured it because the Natalee image protectors wrote to Dan Rhiel.) I wish I had made a copy of that one.

This is why it takes one of these "true crime" books to tell all of the unvarnished truth. It is just a shame we have to wait for those to be published to read the whole story.

This blog report is the closest so far to telling the real story.

[HolyHunch]

Has anyone focused on the boy's mother and her involvement in disposal of the body? Mothers can be very protective of their children.

[Shari]

I think the boy's mother is totally clueless on this one. Dad, on the other hand, is hiding information, no doubt.

[HolyHunch]

Perhaps it is time to suspect the one that no one suspects. Heads up! She knows about acting (drama):

http://www.isaruba.com/academics/profile/anita.htm

[bhamsteph]

momwith2incollege...

great post! i completely agree with you.

[Orange]

Okay I am missing the point about the wild partying, body shots etc. Who cares?

That would be relevant if they all got in a car and had a fatal accident due to their drinking. Also, if Natalee died from drinking and drugs and died in the care of Joran et. al. and then they took her to the hospital...drinking is relevant in that case. But does drinking open the door to being killed? Don't think so...

A girl is missing, most likely dead, and drinking, although it may impair one's judgement, does not mitigate blame from the murderer or the LE investigating the murder/missing girl.

Next outlandish thing I am expecting to read is that her skirt was too short and she was asking for it...

[LooksnListens]

I keep saying our president needs to use his influence here and get this case to someone else"

Posted by: calista | July 16, 2005 01:48 AM

Maybe if someone told him that NH was on life support and that the Arubans wanted to pull the plug, he would turn the world upside down to see that it didn't happen.
Sorry, the president doesn't need to be involved in individual issues. IMO

[Momwith2incollege]

roflmao - I do not consider myself an irresponsible parent. I am a good parent and have raised to great kids who are polite, respectful and an asset to society. They get good grades, dont do drugs, have never been arrested. Do they drink occasionally-YES. Do i know about it YES. Keep in mind that when a boy turns 18 (my son is 20) they are old enough to go to war for your country and also old enough to get married. Girls also at 18 are old enough to go to war and get married (my daughter is 18). If they are allowed to get married at 18-then how can u tell them NO you cant go on vacation. You can advise them that you would prefer not, but you really must let them make some decisions on their own. (I had to face a situation like this with my 18 year old daughter just yesterday) She wanted to do something this weekend that we felt was not appropriate, we told her how we felt, but told her the decision was up to her, but that we did not approve at all, she changed her plans and did something that made her and us both happy! Please dont tell a mom that has two kids that are making something with their lives, an irresponsible mom!

[Delancey]

It saddens me to see so many people throwing stones at Natalee, her parents, anyone's parents, etc. No matter what kind of poor judgment was used by anyone in this case, the bottom line is that nobody deserved to die for using poor judgment. People have a tendency to be frightened by tragedies like this and then try to comfort themselves by saying their children wouldn't be affected because they don't allow their children to do things like this. But the news has been filled with horrible crimes like this forever. The Central Park rapist is one, the Laci Peterson case is another, Lori Hacking is another and the list goes on an on. We can't protect our kids from everything because none of us are smart enough to preview every situation for inherent dangers. Some of us are lucky in that our kids manage to avoid deadly situations. Others aren't so lucky. But it's not about blaming the victim... it's about blaming, catching and incarcerating the perpetrators of these crimes. I recently read that 30% of American men fall into the category of being sociopaths which means they are charming, charismatic and have absolutely no conscience. I'm not privy to all of the facts in this case but my guess is that Joran VDS is a sociopath who saw visiting girls as an opportunity for sex. It's possible JVDS saw virgins as being even more attractive and planned his trysts for the last night of their trips so that there was no time for anything to be reported prior to them leaving the island. It's possible a date rape drug was used, JVDS tried to rape Natalee, a fight ensued and she was killed in the process. But it is at this point that the traits of a sociopath enter the picture and forever change the landscape of the crime. 70% of the male population probably wouldn't have been raping a girl in the first place, nor giving her a date rape drug. However, when something went horribly wrong, 70% of the male population wouldn't have covered up the crime. I'm afraid that JVDS falls into the 30% category and immediately did his best to cover up his involvement in this crime and disposed of the body to avoid detection. If you stop and think about it, how many of you could bury a body, or toss it in the water, without being shaken to your very core? Hopefully, not many of us and ideally none of us. But someone did to that to Natalee, and that person is a sociopath. This is an incredibly sad situation, especially in light of the fact that Natalee had a bright future ahead of her where her skills could have gone to help humanity with a medical degree. But please, please... let's don't blame the victim. The victims worst crime is normally using bad judgment. But the perpetrators go much, much further than that.

[AMotherAlso]

First, thanks to Dan for his willingness to try to provide support for the discovery of Natalee, in a most imperfect world. I do believe he is trying to discern what is best here and full of good intent.

Secondly, it is tough to be a parent in this day and age, and combat what "everyone else does" and make the right decisions for your teenager - IF you have that level of buy-in for if you try to control them it's likely you will lose that battle. I did not allow my high school senior to participate in the senior beach trip post graduation, I was also lucky that his g/f's parents made the same decision. We're lucky both kids listened and accepted it. That being said, I did however allow my son to go to the Caribbean with another family and their three children over spring break. Knowing what I do now from the Holloway case and also facts/events my son shared post spring break - I am unsure if I made the right choice. He was at far greater risk on the Caribbean trip, even though the senior beach trip in the states reportedly involved heavy drug and alcohol use, and wild and rampant sex.

I know how hard I have tried to make the best decisions, particularly as a single parent. I have learned more than perhaps I know how to navigate moving forward, post the loss of Natalee. Beth Holloway has exhibited that she too has been very involved in her daughter's life, been aware and also obviously did more than a few things right with an honors student without a history of prior discipline problems.

What teenagers do as a group, fueled by that collective force as catalyst, I am unsure any of us can predict. Now that I have to send mine to college in less than a month, I probably will never have a full night's rest again.

I will however sit down and thank him for making better decisions than most to date, and also tell him he has too much potential to risk it all by pushing all limits of rational behavior with sex or drugs or alcohol. Like another parent/poster on this board I intend to tell him it would break my heart entirely if ever I lost him or he was injured beyond repair - this includes STD's which I think is yet another ball of wax to contend with.

What is a parent to do? My heart goes out to Beth Holloway folks, it could be me as opposed to her or it could be you - heartsick and devastated by ALL that transpired at such an incalculable cost.

[Momwith2incollege]

roflmao- I DID not underwrite the trip. Both of my kids have held jobs since the age of 16! Earned and saved their own money! "Many parents agree with you" who????? are u even a parent and if so, how old are your children?

[terry]

anybody: ive been out of touch and dont know what hasppened in the holloway caes, did the vander punk get out of jail.

[tideroller]

Terry - Another 60 days. PTL!

[Tali]

WHY AREN'T THE TWO KALPOE BROTHERS BEING ARRESTED FOR OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE??? THEY STILL LIED TO POLICE ABOUT THE BLACK SECURITY OFFICER!!! For this reason alone, I would never set foot on that sorry excuse of an island. I don't care how beautiful it is.

[Brian]

I don't think anyone is being unrealistic regarding high schoolers in Aruba. However, there is something very shady in Nat's disappearance. If it were a simply as an accident, we would have found her by now. Jossy Mansur (editor of Diario) stated a couple of weeks ago that the people of Aruba have to wake up to the fact that there is another life on the island after 10:00. What about the Sunday night rave parties that no one wants to talk about?

[Jan]

Well it only took 6 weeks and finally the myth of the "resonsible drinking" of MB might be coming out! If anyone that used to be a normal 17 or 18 year old way back when - will admit honestly - who drinks responsibly? Certainly not the majority - and I don't care whether they are honor students getting full rides to college - when you are in an atmosphere of a club like Carlos and Charlies on senior trip - responsible behavior goes out the window. I would have thought more highly of this group of MB kids from the beginning with a little more honesty! Of course since they got to skoot on home and were really out of the media eye - they got off easy - media flocked to Aruba and left the kids to a few camera shots where they sat there all perky and smiley like little stepford children. None of this excuses or helps with what happen tragically to Natalee - she did not deserve what happened - and perhaps one of the problems with this case is that in the wee hours of the morning after a night of not responsible drinking all memories are a little foggy and unhelpful. Hmmm wonder if that is another reason why ole Joran has changed his story several times - is it possible that he does not have his responsible memory either?? THat is why I do not think he may even have a clue as to where Natalle went or is - that does not mean I dont think he might have been with her when the bad thing happened (I just dont know) but I do not believe these 3 amigos could have committed the perfect crime with no clues anywhere - no one could have imagined that this island would have been searched better than any island in the history of searches anywhere! So either she has been moved since the media took off or she was removed far beyond what those 3 and daddy VDS could pull off. Keep up the good work Dan, really appreciate how hard you are working on this case and all of the ideas you present here!!

[Yolande]

Partying and drinking alcohol doesnt make a person [or an 18-year old angel] a lesser person. I guess Natalee was just a human being like we all.
I want to stay away from fora about Natalee but I keep coming back every time. Im so curious about what happened to her. And I still have hope that she can be found alive.

[Hmmm....]

There have been several posters who have put down the idea of kidnapping for purpose of human trafficking. I really don't understand why such resistance to this possibility when human trafficking is the fastest growing illegal business IN THE WORLD and many Latin countries are considered tier 3 (the worst) on the CIA list.

Beth said from the very beginning that there are many people involved in this and she asked "how far does this net go?" Sounds like she thought it was a big network of people. Why does she believe this to be the case? I think there must be something to that statement for her to state it out loud. I also do not think it is far-fetched that the Hubart Thiels(sp?) reporter from Diario claimed Natalee was seen in a car with three men and a nother woman when interviewed on Fox.

[Yolande]

I see some people commenting here about responsibility and children and holidays and drinking. It seems to me people in America think very different than people in Netherlands. Overhere, children from 16 can drink alcohol. 21 -like in America- seems way too old for me. Kids will drink anyway? and it seems better to me they drink under supervision of the parents. But everyone his own opinion.

[the first time I had too much alcohol I got so sick I didnt want any for many many years, its eyeopening to have such an expirience]]

[Concerned]

AMotherAlso~

I have 3 daughters. I have learned to put them in God's hands. I do not have full control. I teach and know that most of the difference is made early on. I am always there for them. I step in when they seem to need me, whether they ask or not. I pray a lot.

[Hmmm....]

People also seem to think it's a ludicrous. They ask, "why would there be a coverup?" How about asking "Why wouldn't there be a coverup?" That should be the question.

The island is small, everyone knows each other. If there was a group of boys/men involved in this, it seems normal and likely that a community would not talk. After all, you have your son, your cousin, your nephew, your best friend, etc... as police chief Van Stratten said, "why would I do that to my best friend's son?" Exactly. Why would any of these local people, officials do that to another local? (give them up/investigate them, etc....) Not to mention their island's reputation which is obviously a huge deal to them. If not, then there would not have been any protests and defensive behavior on their end. Usually, when people get defensive enough to go to that extreme, it is for a reason. Any psychologist will tell you that.

[Concerned]

Yolande~
Research has shown us that the mortality rate was very high when the drinking age in the US was 18. We lost so many kids in accidents and alcohol-related deaths. I did a lot of work with Drug and Alcohol education and prevention in schools. Kids drink, no question, but they have designated drivers and are more careful with restrictions by law.

[Brian]

There is so much tunnel vision in this case. Since today's topic seems to be "keeping it real", how about a tragically real scenario in which Nat's still alive. Joran never goes to the beach; but goes to an after hours rave party. Chances are good that a few Mountain Brook kids were at this party too. At the party, Joran makes a move on Nat; she rejects him and hits him. He hits her back and knocks her out. The Mountain Brook kids are just too messed up to notice or are two frightened to do anything. The party disperses quickly. Joran's "buddies" at the party (drug dealers and thugs) tell him to leave and they would take care of her. They probably told him they'd drop her off at some crack house somewhere and she'd "show up" in the next few days. Joran goes home; goes to school; brags about his night with Nat all expecting her to "show up" at a crack house therefore cooberating his story. The Twittys showed up too early and caught everyone by surprise. Nat became too "hot" a commodity; so they took her off the island. When Joran realized she wasn't "showing up", he told his dad. His dad contacted his friend van der Straaten to investigate. They tragically realized she wasn't where she was supposed to be and began searching "elsewhere" for her. Joran truly expected her to show up. Everything was delayed as long as possible to give the kidnappers/abductors a chance to drop her off. After some internal investigating, Joran's dad and van der Straaten realized she would never be found on the island. If she was found, it would be in Venezuela, Columbia, or some other island. They've lost track of her but know Joran didn't kill her. It is much more likely she was taken off the island alive, as opposed to being murdered on island by a sociopath. There are many more people involved in very high places who want this mystery to end as a mystery right there on Aruba. But, once the link is found OFF the island, the whole house of cards will fall, Nat will be found, and the corruption will be exposed for what it is.

[Yolande]

Concerned, okay I understand.
A difference also might be that people under 18 arent allowed to drive a car overhere [they can 'practice' drinking first]. In America they can already drive from 16?

[Kat_Gram]

I watched Nancy Grace last night. Tim Miller stated that he does not have " permission " to search the VDS property. This was said in relation to the co operation of the Arban authorities with the FBI and with the family, etc.

Why can't he get permission from them ? I can understand that they might not want him going there by himself, becasue there are rules of evidence and if he finds anything on his own, is it " evidence" ?

If they are interested in finding Natalee, why couldn't Tim Miller and the Police go there together, Tim acting as an agent of the police. Equusearch has equipment and dogs available to them that they simply don't have in crime free Aruba.

I also think that the Aruba authorities know that they have bungled the investigation and they don't want the spotlight on them.

As for what for on at C & C's, is anyone surprised that 17 / 18 /19 year old would be acting up ? Everyone else from MB high School came back and I don't believe that Natalee brought this on herself as it is being suggested.

I was 17 once and so were the bloggers here.

ps The FBI is going to Alabama to re interview the kids from MB .

[Hmmm....]

I do not think the issue should be shifted to the behavior of the teens. The focus needs to stay on where is she? What happened to her? AND WHO was involved?

I think it can probably be assumed there was partying and even shocking wild behavior. SO WHAT? THAT is not the issue. The issue is a girl is missing, no matter what her behavior was in a public (supposedly safe) establishment, that does not mean she was "asking for it" or went along willingly to get raped and/or killed. Kids and their parents might have assumed it's actually safer to let their hair down there on a small island with "friendly people" than in the U.S. with it's crime. The mentality might be that an island is much safer and uneventful than the mainland so that is THE place for kids to go and have fun. Kind of like thinking Aruba is similar to Disney world -

Now, we have found out it is NOT SAFE to party and go wild there. It is not better than the mainland, and may even be worse when you compare number of crimes to the small population there.

[Concerned]

Yolande~
I think each society creates rules necessary for that particular society. We shouldn't criticize until we try to understand the historical origin of a particular law or practice. What do you think?

[Hmmm....]

Brian,
that is an interesting theory. Doesn't sound far fetched to me. However, anything seems possible to me at this point. How and in what way, I dont' know, but I do believe there were more people involved than just Joran.

[Roy]

Dan, thanks for clearing up the fact that the other case mentioned by WB2 took place in Iraq and not the island of Aruba.
And for those of you who don't understand the dutch (Aruban justice system) but have all kinds of judgements about it, try reading about Trias Politica.
I do agree with those who feel that not detaining JVS and the K-brothers from the beginning was a grave error.
I also agree with those who get frustrated by the lack of clear information coming from the justice department or from LE.
Sometimes I get confused and find it difficult to figure out wether some comments are expressing sympathy and hope for the Holloway familiy or just trashing Aruba.

[Yolande]

Concerned,

I wasnt trying to criticize. Just wondered about the criticism in some posts above.
Children have to have freedom at some point in their live, as they have to learn how to lead life on their own. Going on holiday without your parents when youre 18 doesnt sound irresponsible to me.
[afterwards, when in fact something does happen its easy to talk]

[Concerned]

Hmmm~
Given where we are right now human trafficking is ver possible. No body, no forensics, no trace, but lots of questions...
Although it's been around in various forms throughout history, human trafficking is an up and coming commercial business as protected as the drug trade continues to be.

[Hmmm....]

Kat Gram,
"If they are interested in finding Natalee, why couldn't Tim Miller and the Police go there together, Tim acting as an agent of the police. Equusearch has equipment and dogs available to them that they simply don't have in crime free Aruba."

Yep. Because they are NOT interested in finding Natalee. If so, there would not have been so much resistance and stonewalling. They'd be begging for help if they truly believed in Joran's innocence.
Mother Kalpoe would've insisted on them searching her property as well. If my son got accused of something and I was sure he was innocent, I would've been indignant enough to demand a search of my property just to clear his name.

This has not happened with the Van Der Sloots or the Kalpoes.

[Concerned]

Yolande, I wasn't trying to criticize you :-) I think people in general criticize what is different from their culture. Ethnocentricism is pretty common.