Natalee Holloway: Monday Night Late Report

While most eyes were on the beach observing the then three suspects visit there yesterday, another investigative team was visiting Paul(us) v d Sloot where the v d Sloot family is staying with friends. Reliable sources confirm he is not seen as cleared in the ongoing investigation. It was suggested that the prosecutor wants to be sure they have ample evidence to hold onto him in the event of a possible re-arrest.

With the focus shifting away from Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, some close to the investigation are looking more closely at the role of Paul(us) v d Sloot in whatever crimes may have taken place.

One unconfirmed report suggests the Dutch Ministry of Justice has formally requested the resignation of the elder Van der Sloot.

Additionally, Satish and Deepak are said to be co-operating with authorities, at least to the extent that they may testify in any pending trial; however, it was not been made clear if their statements will damage a presumed defense on behalf of Paul(us) and / or Joran v d Sloot, or support it.

Public relations efforts of some on the island to turn the focus away from Aruba and back toward America, more specifically Alabama seem to be gaining traction among the general population.

Various reports are emerging of things getting "ugly" between the press and Aruban passers by, with some claiming that while many islanders first seemed to be focusing their anger at the Van der Sloot family, they are now more than ever blaming America and American media for bringing this trouble to their shores.

When the Mother of the Kalpoe brothers appeared in front of the court house, some locals were urging her to speak only in the local dialect and ignore the American press. Most of any demonstrations in front of the court house seemed aimed at the media.

More and more rumors of an out of control group of high school students from the United States, with one of their party responsible for any potential crime are circulating ever more widely through portions of the general population. It seems an increasingly frustrated  and basically friendly island population is looking for somewhere to focus their frustration through blame.

While there are conflicting reports as to the level of drugs and street crime on the island, for every source that suggests levels are very high, still other reliable sources suggest it actually seems lower than most other Caribbean tourist destinations. That wasn't the case as regards Carlos and Charlies.

Located in a part of town some have described as "seedy," observations from today suggest it is very much business as usual with what appeared to be several underage individuals hanging out and partying. One objective source indicated his observations gave him the impression that "hitting on female American tourists" seems to be an activity still very much associated with the night spot.

Other individuals report that the family of Natalee Holloway appears to be managing the media reasonably well and is reaching out to the press and maintaining contact to foster support in the event that they find it necessary to start "naming names" as far as what they might know of what is happening, or has happened behind the scenes of the five week long investigation.

It was reported to me that some members of the Holloway/Twitty family are increasingly convinced that they must keep and possibly even increase pressure on the Aruban authorities if they are to ever get answers to what happened to Natalee Holloway. That needs to be balanced with the earlier report that the investigation is on going and authorities are indicating that there is progress that can be made.

No time frame was suggested for a possible re-arrest of Paul(us) v d Sloot. And it was not described as an absolute certainty at this time.

This post is also available at Blogger News Network.

Comments

[mona]

Another question for anyone familar with aruban (screw-u-ban) law. Is there a charge of perjury possible? If so the Kalpoes,Steve Croes and PVDS and mama VDS are all guilty!! I would love to hear again about Joran's house rule to be in at 11:00 pm!! This out of control predator looks to have been drinking heavily for at least the last year or 2...the police need to follow the ecstacy...oh I forgot....they like the drug too!!!

[patrick]

if you wanna send kids alone to places, then you need to teach them street smarts or don't even consider it. My brother, in his early 20's came to visit me in Chicago. Before I knew it, someone lured him in an alley to 'show him something'. Young people not from big cities generally are not prepared for predators. I hope the Holloway/Twitty families don't go too far in lashing out at the Aruban authorities in their news conference this morning. I think evoking sympathy is a better ploy. Do the other behind the scenes with a lawyer. Last thing you wanna do is tell the chef his hamburger sucked and you want another one. He'll probably spit in it before serving to you. Don't piss off the authorities. They need to be motivated and inspired to continue this investigation

[resorttownmom]

Greta just interviewed two of Natalee's best friends who were not aware of Joran's presence until the last evening at Carlos and Charlie's. The thing that strikes me is the disconnect here between what Natalee did and what the best friend's did. Normally girl groups of best friends always hang together UNLESS something else enters the picture. Her best friends left at approximately 12:00 and Natalee stayed. Those friends know a whole lot more than they are telling. Not to say they know anything bad but they know exactly why Natalee did not leave with her own group. If they are the best friends and Natalee wanted to stay there at Carlos and Charlie, the best friends know why. Frankly, they look like Stepford kids in the interview. Who told them OK we need an interview but don't tell why (for whatever reason even dumb) Natalee stayed until Carlos and Charlie's closed. So her best friends and roommates believe that Natalee left in a car with three boys who she had never met until that evening. Also it was said that the best friends did not report her missing because she had not spent the night in the room on other nights too. In teenage behavior, the best friends were either the past best friends or Natalee had some other priority. Something is not being told as to what really happened.

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I wasn't implying that they know any thing bad and not telling. The girls stated that they left Carlos n Charlie's at around midnight. They heard Natalee waited until closing time and left just after 1:00 a.m. That's really all they know for sure except maybe they know why Natalee was not hanging out with them. If they knew information like Natalee was intrigued by meeting Joran and wanted to stay etc, etc, why not said it. If you didn't know that Joran drank and gambled, you wouldn't be afraid of a student who was going to college in Florida on a tennis scholarship. Some of the picture of Joran can be joke pictures like the one with the bottle of booze in his arms like he's kissing it. Kids take joke pictures to amuse their friends. So what if the girls said, we knew she met Joran but nobody was afraid of him if that's true. That interview was weird. Face it.

[Moosetracks]

Just saw the news conference. Beth just wanted other countries to not allow them into their countries.

Obviously, she thinks the two brothers will return to their country or another.

I would think the Aruban police would be keeping an eye on them.

[soon2b20]

Im so tired of every1 missing the main focus. where is natalee now i know torture is barbaric but the police need 2 put on some pressure. i know none of my friends would let me leave with 3 frickin strangers.even kids i didnt talk to in high school would not have let me leave with 3 guys. common sense. i just wish they could find her alive and well.

[jamie]

i know none of my friends would let me leave with 3 frickin strangers.even kids i didnt talk to in high school would not have let me leave with 3 guys. common sense. i just wish they could find her alive and well.
___________________________________________

I think everyone wishes her to be alive and well.
It's pretty clear that some bad decisions were made that night, however, I think that on the last night on the island with a handsome boy, it's not completely preposterous that the friends left her. It isn't like they knew what was going to happen. She may have been beligerant and told them she wasn't going with them. She may have wanted one "fling" before leaving the island.
No one would have let her go knowing what we know now, but hindsight is always 20/20.

[richandfamous]

seedyrum wrote:From all accounts, America loved or loves Aruba. Jeez we are 70% of their GDP?

Nice front for their "riehl" GDP...washing money!
Therefore, I do not believe the loss of American tourist dollars will directly affect Aruba. jmo

[phunktified]

Clone - Thank you!
Slamming someone for their screen name doesn't seem like proper blog behavior. Assuming what someone is or isn't based on a screen name is even worse.

[GrannyToad]

This case has too many disturbing elements.

At this point the distraught mother, likely in order to not be summarily thrown off Aruba, hamstrung my guess, only asked that the Kalpoe brothers be denied entry/haven in other countries.

*** It's good to be American. ***

[andy]

Is the laws in Aruba the same as the Netherlands? This is an article from Boots n All Travel Agency on the WWW.

http://www.bootsnall.com/articles/04-07/netherlands-nutz-and-bolts.html

[mike 1]

It seems Joran will serve seventy-some days total for rape / murder.

[gregwagnerMD]

I liv in Barbados but am a traveling nurse stationed here in Aruba for 8 months. I've been following the coverage of this sad case. But, the tide is turnin here. And it's not good for the Holloways. Many, many, many people who had supported the family have turned on them, with good reason I think. They've been shunned, ridiculed and embarrassed in the last 4 days. Islnders are furious with them because of the disrespect shown to Aruba. They are tired of her getting on TV every night and bitching about the judicial system, calling the boys murderers, psychopaths and criminals. There's only so much we will take. You do not, and I repeat do not bad mouth this coutry and its citizens and get away with it!!There have ben quite a few NASTY letters delivered to them and most islanders are refusing o coperate or assist them in any way!! As for the Kalpoe brothers, they are FREE to go anywhere and have tickets to Surinam on friday. But the government in the Barbados said they would welcome them there. Maybe if the Twitty's would show some reponsibility they could survive here, Bu, as it looks, they are in for a DISASTER, just wait and see!! It'll probably quiet them done for long time. And, there is no focus on Paulus Van der Sloot. I guarantee you, he will not be arrestd again and no one has asked for his resignation. I'm not sure how they do civil suits here, but the Twitty's are going to face a major backlash. and it's about time!!! Wake up Americans, you'll never get what you want here!!!
update- the Kalpoe's ARE leaving on Thursda, their mom just announced it. GOOD for them!! They need to get away from the psychotic Twitty's!!!

[surfergirl]

I'm a nurse in Barbados who's in Aruba for 8 months working. People here are sick and tired of the Twittys!! How many times do you have to get on TV and bad mouth the island, the judicial syatem, call citizens murderers, criminals etc etc. This family is none too smart, are they?? Any cooperation they want will NOT happen. People are sending a petiton around saying they want them to leave the island! It's got 3,000 signitures so far. And for the Kalpoe's they are FREE to go and will leave on Thursday. They're going to Surinam and maybe somewhere from there. Good for them. They don't need to hear ts ranbling unhinged mothr call them criminals!!My country, Barbados, has been in touch with the Kalpoe's and said they are welcom in Barbados for as long as they want. And, Paulus Van der Sloot will not be rearrested and no one has asked for his resignation!! Get your rumors right!

[sunburn]

Eventually, DEA will start putting a hurt on your real economy. That may have to be enough.

[WaWa]

Hello all. Anyone watching FOX. Any updates?

[ann]

Surfergirl,
You don't have to post the same thing under two names to get your point made. Beth Twitty is carrying a burden that none of us can possibly understand unless we have had the same thing happen to us (I am betting you haven't). I think that the Holloway-Twitty families have shown great restraint considering the circumstances.

[P in SE Asia]

I must say i find BHT out of place, bloody cheek n out of order to say she hope the boys dont "flee". IN CASE SHE HAS NOT REALIZED, THEY ARE FREE INDIVIDUALS - they have the right to go whereever they feel like (granted the gov't has 2days left to challenge the decision to release them). They can go to timbucktwo and there is not a thing she can do about it. it is time these people learn to accept the judicial system of other countries. period!!!

In case she hasn't realized, the boys are not obligated to assist in the finding/locating of her daughter or her daughter's remains. They still have a life to go live.

It behoves me that some people cant accept somethign as JUSTICE untill it meets her needs. She is even callin on th eother countries to "not give them refuge" wht nonsense is this?

She shoudl be happy that the efforts are being more concentrated now.

[WaWa]

Question, if the islanders are getting soo uptight, are they also afraid or even aware that something is being hid. Not that they would know what happened to Natalee, but perhaps know that their government is covering up info? Or perhaps they know people there are sold for drugs or into sexual slavery situations and this has been a suggestion in the Natalee case.

Too much of this doesn't make sense to the normal thinking human. I feel if this had been handled differently but the Arubian officials, Beth and Jug would not have to go to the extrements they have had to. What if it were Joran who was missing. Anyone thought of that?

On Friday, Jug Twitty stated in an interview that if the boys walked, he and Beth were prepared to "blow the whold lid off of this, and the US and whole world would be shocked."

[Moosetracks]

I too believe some of the Holloway/Twitty comments may come back to bite them....BUT TO THE BARBADOS NURSE....
Now do you feel how Americans feel when your country is bashed????

We're sick of that too.

I doubt if Natalee is ever found. I doubt we will find out what happened. Her mom will come to accept that, as many moms do when their child has disappeared. It's tough, but some cases never get solved.

[WaWa]

Barbados nurse,

please explain to us your comment above regarding the Holloway-Twitty's and their "being headed for a disaster, just wait and see"

What type of disaster? What could be more difficult than the situation they appear to be in?

Do you have kids? Or just know everything?

[Jamie]

On Friday, Jug Twitty stated in an interview that if the boys walked, he and Beth were prepared to "blow the whold lid off of this, and the US and whole world would be shocked."

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Do you honestly believe that you know the whole story? That Jug and Beth don't have things they know that we don't?

I'm sure that it's fairly frustrating for them to know things and not have them acted upon. They're not viewing this from a 'law enforcement' standpoint but a "fry this guy for what we know he did to our kid" standpoint. I'm willing to bet that this supposed Nurse is lucky enough not to have ever stood in their shoes, regardless of which country she is standing in.

[Evil]

I guess Arubans are ticked "off that" that the American Press has identified how screwed up their "Justice" system is. It has demonstrated how ignorant their police officials are. How their officials lie by saying one thing and thing denying they said it. The Twitty's might as well leave because of all the "Dumb Ass" police work and non-existent interrogation techniques, thier daughter will never be found nor will they ever know what happened to her. I am sure the islanders are tired of having their inadequacies displayed for the world to see.
Hopefully Arubans will recognize that these inadequacies will never get fixed unless you identify them first and if it embarasses the right people, one day your island may have a "Real" justice system.One you will be proud to display to the world if it ever happens again and let's all hope you never need it.

[GrannyToad]

Who are the Kalpoes, anyway? I can't say I have unlimited resources - just the 'net and a keyboard.

Here is the sole find for that surname and its evolution - an immigrant family story:

1910 > Massachusetts > Suffolk > 1-Wd Boston > District 1263
KALPACTHE Max 37 m15 Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish 1903/na English junk dealer own business
Paula 34 m15 3/3 Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish 1905
Harry 13 Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish
Bertha 3, Lillian 1 1/12 MA Rus Rus
HASELOFF Esther 55 wid motherinlaw 8/3 Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish 1905 yiddish

1920 > Massachusetts > Suffolk > Boston > District 25
KOLPACK Max 50 1901na1906 Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish collecter junk shop
Pauline 1945 1905na1906 Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish
Lilliana 9, Bertha 12, both b MA
Harry 22 1905na1910 Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish Russ/Yiddish
HASELOF Ester 69 wid motherinlaw 1906 Russ/Yiddish

1930 Boston, Suffolk, Massachusetts; Roll: 952; Page: 21A; Enumeration District: 417; Image: 1002
KALPOE Max 59 m26 Rus Rus Rus yiddish 1906 collector junk
Pauline 53 m20 Rus Rus Rus yiddish 1906
Bertha 23 MA Rus Rus stenographer department store
BOVARNICK Max 24 soninlaw MA Rus Rus teacher agricultural college
Lillian 21 m21 MA Rus Rus stenographer govt income tax dept

To translate all that, in short, Max Kalp-something married Pauline Haseloff about 1895 in probably then Poland/Russia, guessing maybe Latvia. Of 3 total children, they had a son they called Harry (in English, since their home-tongue was Yiddish) about 1897. Max came to America about 1903 and got his wife, son & mother-in-law to Boston about 1905. I didn't find even a near match for their surnames nor for Ester at ellisisland.org. They had 2 more daughters born Boston.

Where's the only son, Harry? Born about 1897 Russia, I did not find him 1930, which is the latest US census publicly available. Note this may not be the family at all, if coincidental.

[Jamie]

On Friday, Jug Twitty stated in an interview that if the boys walked, he and Beth were prepared to "blow the whold lid off of this, and the US and whole world would be shocked."

------------------------------------------

Do you honestly believe that you know the whole story? That Jug and Beth don't have things they know that we don't?

I'm sure that it's fairly frustrating for them to know things and not have them acted upon. They're not viewing this from a 'law enforcement' standpoint but a "fry this guy for what we know he did to our kid" standpoint. I'm willing to bet that this supposed Nurse is lucky enough not to have ever stood in their shoes, regardless of which country she is standing in.

[Jamie]

I bet that's not the same family. These people are Surinamese, not Russian Jews.

[Stuff]

I agee with Lake!!! Joran walked out with the body about 300 ft then swam with arm over chest {life saving hold} to the major current and away from the pull of the island. He then released the body and it went into the major current never to be seen again. I think she overdosed and died..he didn't want involved..no murder!!!

[PackerFanGirl]

Both postings state they are a nurse in Barbados for 8 mos. The first implies a man by the name Greg and implies he is a doctor not a nurse. The 2nd is posted saying surgergirl implying a female. I guess that is enough to not take the remarks seriously.

If the person is really even in Aruba, who knows? Maybe a female by day and a male by night. Maybe a nurse by day and a doctor by night. Really someone we should take seriously. Not.

Being headed for a disaster, JUST WAIT AND SEE sounds like a full out threat to me towards the Alabama family.

The statements made are just more of the same hogwash from yet another in Aruba.

This would never happen but just imagine, an American girl when Joran comes to US for vacation sees him out, drugs him, gets him into a friend's car, steals his wallet and everything else and then kills him and gets rid of the body. The snooty, arrogant, ugly Mrs. VS and Mr. VS, the Arubans and the Dutch would be screaming for justice and want their son found. We sit and do nothing. We screw up the investigation. The American girl is from a prominent family. We make no efforts to find Joran. We know the girl was with him and have plenty of indciation of her involvement in what happened to him but we give her how many days was it? Ten days to get rid of the body and all evidence. We then take her in for questioning and let her go again. We then under pressure from the VS, Dutch and Arubans rearrest her where we feed her steak and lobster, have her behind closed doors (which we DO NOT HAVE IN OUR COURTS TO ENSURE THE PUBLIC DOES NOT HAVE TO WONDER WHAT CORRUPT THINGS ARE GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES) where no one from Aruba or Holland can see how well we are treating her and tell her (where no one can hear, not the media and not anyone) just sit tight, we will treat her well, make sure her stay is luxurious, appease the Dutch and the Arubans by waiting it out, making it look as though we are doing something and tell the girl eventually she will be let go. In the meantime the Dutch and Aruban press are over here having a fit, can find out nothing and the VS are all over world news bashing America, as are the Arubans and the Dutch for not caring about one of their citizens from a decent family who had gone missing. THE VERY SAME THING WOULD BE HAPPENING BUT FROM THE OTHER WAY AROUND AND ANYONE IN ARUBA WHO CANNOT UNDERSTAND THIS IS 100 PERCENT BLIND AND INCAPABLE OF IMAGINING IF THE SITUATION WAS REVERSED AND SEEING THE TWITTYS ARE DOING WHAT ANY FAMILY WOULD HAVE TO DO UNDER SUCH RIDICULOUS HANDLING OF A KIDNAP RAPE AND POSSIBLE MURDER CASE WHICH AN ENTIRE COUNTRY'S LAW ENFORCE AND LEGAL SYSTEM HAS NEVER TAKEN SERIOUSLY OR CARED ABOUT FROM DAY ONE.

Us Americans, the ones here who care and will not stop caring or ever give Aruba one red cent if this does not result in justice, those of us here who are not the ones who would ever, ever blame the family or the victim, know what we are made of and know this island will see an impact from this for years to come if they do not stand up in their own country and actually try having a voice and imagine if it was one of their children, instead of forming a group mentality, probably at the hands of the arrogant upper class leaders in the country, and blame America, the American press (who we all know can be both good and bad depending on the purpose), the victim's family and the victim.

I have constantly made a point of saying, just as in America, I am sure there are good Arubans, I have constantly tried from day one to believe the law enforcement is actually doing more and knowing more behind the scenes than we know, I have tried to give it a chance while always seeing so clearly they have never cared and never intended to prosecute anyone other than maybe the black security guards in the beginning to appease but I am done with all that. A girl, an outstanding student with her entire life ahead of her, was in all likelihood murdered and that matters not at all. They think we are so stupid as to have fallen for what they had planned, the security guards as scapegoats, for instance, rather than prosecution of an upper class family, etc. They thought we would fall for it and did not count on the Twitty family's strength and resolve and they are outraged now that their island and law enforcement is looking like the laughingstock it apparently is.

Natalee was going to med school and would have contributed much to our society. The posts above by the "nurse" who is both male and female and apparently a "wannabe" doctor as opposed to NH who would have become a doctor are a joke. Joran would have come to the US, floated through school playing tennis on a tennis scholarship and partied, gambled, drugged and date raped all of the co-eds around and killed who knows how many of them. NH clearly would have done just the opposite and contributed to society. Here, however, Joran would have seen what a real legal system is and that law enforcement is capable of getting a confession and finding out where she was. He then would have sat in prison for the rest of his unnatural life and would not be seen with a grin or arrogant look every time he went to a hearing or otherwise. Furthermore, we could attend the hearings and KNOW no b.s. between high corrupt officials and judges were going on behind the scenes.

The loss of American tourist dollars may not destroy Aruba but let them survive on the drugs and prostitution and all other corrupt income and the "paradise" 100 percent of that stuff instead of tourism will make their little island.

What I cannot understand is why the Aruban people do not care about a young female victim, whether she was from Aruba, Holland or the US, enough to stand up and say to their government and law enforcement, you are making a joke of Aruba, what is going on, change this secret legal system, find justice for NH to bring a good reputation back to our island, etc. Why is there NO ONE there who will say this to the media or even to their own government/law enforcement? It is unnatural, someone must care or think like this. Is it because you are all scared that if you do anything against the group mentality and higher ups you too will disappear to never be found just as NH has?

If they ever get to bring their daughter back, despite their grief if Natalee is no longer alive, the day the Twittys step back on American soil will I am sure be a relief and an appreciation of America unlike most of us ever remember we should have. I cannot imagine if this is the attitude the Arubans are starting to have and starting to show the family how downright awful it must be to already have your daughter missing and then be treated like this by people you would think would care and feel sympathy for you.

To the pseudo MD and person apparently in the process of a sex change operation (male or female) or a transvestite, what are you doing in this American site where most care about Natalee? Go to a site hosted by an Aruban (assuming anyone in that country can have one or state anything other than what they are supposed to all say) and get together and talk about your group mentality and bash America. Get out of here. All you are doing is trying to defend a country we now know is a joke. Better yet head to C & Cs and prey on a tourist who did nothing but come to your island to maybe party, spend a lot of $$$$ assisting your economy and have a great vacation. And the argument about whether C & Cs is in a seedy part of town? I can settle that one, I wouldn't have said it weeks ago as I still tried to give you all a chance but I will say it now. It is not in a seedy part of town, it is in seedy Aruba. The entire country is seedy, the law enforcement and government is shady and the citizens are all sheep who better follow the example of the government and law enforcement or go missing. As stated earlier by someone, America's economy will not suffer from this, Aruba's will, whether it makes or breaks Aruba, we do not care, but some of us here who believe in such loyalty (to those that deserve it) will have the satisfaction of knowing we are not supporting you one bit with our personal dollars.

To all the good people on here, sorry for the very, very, very long post but I have had it with the Aruba sheep and this one apparently is not even Aruban but still follows the mentality as she/he is there.......

[Alvaro]

GregGirlsurferMD -

Whatever opinion you have on this whole case, and I think we have them all. How can anyone give an ounce of legitimacy or consideration to a person who is posting under more than one name? Furthermore, in a way so misleading as to present a "male" and "female" perspective. We are all faceless, so there is no need to fear someon seeing our face. "Surfer Greg" or "GirlMD" trying to hide something from other posters or yourself? I wonder how many other names or "faces" you've presented us with since this all started.
_______________________________________________

I think greggirlsurfermd is full of it and pretends to be more in touch with the situation than "it" is, but I think there is no denying the existence of a public backlash on the part of Arubans, and I for one find it understandable. The true victim is Natalee, true and undisputable... but if a foreigner was killed in the U.S. and one of our cities botched the case, and a foreign press began bashing the shit out of our judicial system, and morals, and began airing our social ills, dirty laundry, etc before the entire world... I would be incensed and I for one would tell these foreigners where the hell they could go. American posters, YOU KNOW THAT RIGHT OR WRONG, WE WOULD NOT TOLERATE A FOREIGN MEDIA DOING WHAT OUR MEDIA(however well intentioned) IS DOING IN ARUBA. Thanks to a Mayberry-esque investigation and a pattern of lying by all suspected, the Arubans have been bashed, and bashed, and for quite awhile they took it with a smile... however, they seem to have reached their limit and are ready to bash back.

[WaWa]

Packerfan and Alvaro

Thank you for expounding on what i said earlier about

#1 if the situation were reversed (meaning Natalee and Joran)

#2 Surfergirl being a total idiot

[PackerFanGirl]

Alvaro I see what you mean but our media is what has kept any investigation going on whatsoever or kept this from being swept under the rug, they and the Twittys.

And maybe the Arubans have had enough of being bashed but as you stated, Barney Fife (much as I like the Andry Griffith show) is the type they apparently have employed in local PD/DA offices and they are being bashed because of real reasons like the botched investigation. Likewise, if it happened here, you know darned well our own press would even be all over our own law enforcement for botching such an investigation, picture the VS family if it happened Joran over here and picture the pressure that would be on us by the Dutch, the Arubans and the VS family and our own media would probably bash any PD or DA that botched such a thing, without even needing the foreign press doing it. In Aruba, their press is nothing but mouthpieces for the entire messed up system. Maybe the Arubans are tired of the bashing but I am tired of seeing the Twittys bashed, the victim bashed and us Americans bashed. It is the same thing but at least we have reasons for feeling this way, we have watched them mess up this entire case from day one. And if it happened in America, we have the expertise necessary to solve such a case, the Arubans do not and yet refused all help when they themselves admitted to needing it, in the very beginning, before they realized the criminal(s) were of families they wanted to protect.

We see the Kalpoe mother upset her sons are in jail and most of us feel for her, we saw the same thing with the Croes family and most of us could sympathize with the family, well, heck, where are the Arubans sympathizing with the Twitty family and saying so any more?

If they are tired of the bashing then instead of turning it back on the victim and her family why don't they out of PRIDE anyhow see to it this case starts being handled correctly and SHOW us that they can DO THAT instead of making it look as though it is a coverup they never thought we would be smart enough to see through--that is an insult to any intelligent person, we all can see it for exactly what it looks like and I guess they never expected that and that is what is bothering them, their little island exposed for what it really is and they cannot handle it so shift the blame and the focus. Denial, denial, denial, so many live in it but I have never seen an entire nation do so as one or so it appears.

[Alvaro]

WaWa

BTW: I'm a cheesehead too(in Cowboy country).

[Alvaro]

Correction: Hey Packerfan

BTW: I'm a cheesehead too(in Cowboy country).

Thanks for the comment WaWa.

Sorry for the semi-double post, but at least I'm just using one name... What a concept.

[Sassy]

PakerGirl that post was great!!!

[MTS]

Is it possible that one of the guys in Natalee's group had a crush on her and when he saw that Natalle went off with the 3 boys and was acting romantically with Uron that he got jellous and followed her out. When she was left alone on the beach like Uron claims he may of tried something with Natalle and they got into a scuffle and she was killed.

[Alvaro]

Packerfangirl

Your are absolutely correct that our media would also have a hayday with the investigation. I'm simply taling about a "man on the street".

You're also right about this, if I were in the same situation(Twittys), I would probably do anything I could to keep the story alive. I just happen to think this "backlash" is to be expected though perhaps, not justified, by any people anywhere. I gues we'll have to agree to disagree on that part.

[Evil]

Where is the body? Why did they lie? How did Papa VS know 2 days after that there was no body to be found? If these guys were innocent, why would they have lied? I don't think they would have made up a story if they were "unaware" that a crime had been committed.

[PackerFanGirl]

WaWa, you said it first and you're welcome.

Oh and the thing about the petition to get the Twittys and our media out of Aruba with supposedly 3,000 out of 70,000 signatures so far???? What kind of idiots are they? If they want death to American tourism, that will do it, kicking out the media and the Twittys or in essence, kicking out Americans and closing more doors and hiding all as we cannot even be there to ensure this investigation is even really going on, etc., etc., etc. Is it not entirely hypocritical that a country that cannot keep liars and brothers who (1) at the very least were in the conversation with papa VDS coming up with a plan; and (2) would be an accesory to the crime here just by plotting the same story they would tell with Joran in Aruba, they cannot keep these two in Aruba but now they have the audacity to try to kick the Twittys and the media out? As the Aruban government stated today, the Kalpoes are free to go ANYWHERE they want and they cannot stop them from leaving. I guess the Twittys and are media however are not free to go ANYWHERE THEY WANT, ARUBA WANTS THEM OUT. How hypocritical.

The stupid petition if it is even true? Well, I guess if they are going to do something so outrageous it is time to do the same. First off, let's start a sheet with signatures of people who will never ever go to Aruba is there is no justice here and this bs does not stop, i.e., kicking the Twittys out, letting all suspects go free, etc. Let's do it by email, I will give my legit email to someone in a safe way and will add my name and send to all I know and ask to pass on. Is someone willing to start one giving a once over on what it is about and why for those we send it to who are not following this case quite as closely as we are? We will do signature after signature after signature, find a place to send them all after so many #s on each and then copy them and send them all to Aruba. I am sure some of us even know people in other countries who will sign it and show them that it is not ONLY Americans who are outraged.

Next, I think maybe it is time to start looking at the businesses in Aruba that have American roots or American Corporations behind them. We have Holiday Inns, we have Dunking Donuts, we have Marriotts. Maybe we can ask these places to actually insist their employees, etc. show support for this poor grieving family and if they do not get involved in whatever way they can, we can refuse to stay/eat at these chains, etc. in our country and any others. Don't know if this is fair but there are ways to pressure. I say any of these corporations willing to pull their places of business out of Aruba would be outstanding but we know that will not happen. Maybe this is not a fair idea but there are things we can do and let's start doing them. The petition at least.

And just as there was all the talk about the guy who was JVS godfather and how crooked that all looks, I think it time to focus on a judge who is letting everyone off the hook and out of the country, etc. What is his name? What is his record like? Is this the kind of thing he always does? These kids are at least accessories and the proof is there just in the concocted shared story. They are also liars/perjurers. That is not enough to hold them? I guess not under their strange useless system.

Any other good ideas out there?

Kicking them out of Aruba. I guess then if 4,000 or 5,000 of us went down there to stay in the country and protest legally and put pressure on (if you can even do that there), they would stop us from coming too. That is the only way or time I would go there to put the pressure on and keep it in the news and a ton of us protest and be down there but something tells me dey would'n allow dat or allow us to come.

[WaWa]

I have an idea packerfan. I think we need to send you down there with be Greta's backup. You are great! The two of you could get this case solved and I mean now.

Notice how greg the doctor/surfergirl shut the hell up?

[PackerFanGirl]

Sassy, thanks for saying it was a great post!

Alvaro, we don't have to agree to disagree. Actually I do agree with you that that kind of backlash would happen anywhere, I just think we have just as much reason to be outraged as well. They are bashing us because of the fact they are not being painted, with some good reason, in a nice light. We are bashing them because they by all appearances are not effectively handling this case and so on.

So you are a Packer fan? Are you originally from Packer country? How do you feel about the Cowboys? They are my most hated team side by side with the Vikings.

[PackerFanGirl]

WaWa, while I am a modest girl, all the nice posts from you and others are starting to go to my head!! Thanks, I would love to do that actually but don't think I will get the chance. I just think most of what I have stated is what most of us caring decent people think and even when I make an outragous comment it is mostly out of the frustration we all feel in watching this "investigation" go on in what seems like a very wrong way.

If I could join Greta I would but the part that would bother me is that where I stayed would be benefiting Aruba with dollars, what I ate would benefit Aruba with dollars and what I needed to have or buy to stay down there would benefit Aruba with dollars.

If they just realized how understanding and forgiving we are and if they just realized if this started looking like it should and what should be done would be getting done (if not already way too late and impossible) that we would probably all forgive and change our attitudes and refusal to go there (those of us who refuse to travel there ever now)! Instead it just gets worse and worse.

I say we get more of our top reporters from here involved. Dan seems to have connections like that with the MSM. Let's get Nancy Grace down there and some who will get right into it. That is if Aruba will let anymore American media in and not kick out the ones that are there along with a grieving family.

[nspectr]

Going to Aruba to protest is not a real efficient way to accomplish the goal. They get tourism dollars and you aren’t going to get the truth in the time that you are there. We need to hit Aruba where it will hurt the government and organized crime the most, their pockets $$$. Don’t vacation there! Let the family and the media do their best to get to the truth while they can hold out down there.

[PackerFanGirl]

nspectr, I agree, I would never really go there and give them my $$$, just meant that the only way I would go there or grudginly give them any $$$ was if I thought a ton of us down there putting pressure on and even more world medial attention on would do any good.

wawa, I forgot to say, yes, I noticed that he/she shut up. Too funny!

[GrannyToad]

I bet that's not the same family. These people are Surinamese, not Russian Jews.

Posted by: Jamie | July 5, 2005 01:38 PM
_______________________________________________

OK, maybe in this case Kalpoe is a Hindu name of descendants from late-19th century northern India. You do the google.

[PackerFanGirl]

Charles, this has been discussed 1,000+ times. Throughout this blog, the numerous reasons this could not be the case and makes no sense are all over the place. I see what you mean about the bragging but I don't see it that way, I think he bragged because from all appearances that is what he would do first of all and second of all, he seems to be so sure he is immune, that daddy or whoever covered it up, the security guards would be blamed when they gave the story about dropping her off at the Holiday Inn, etc. so bragging he was with her fit right in, with her, then dropped her at Holiday Inn, then the security guards did it, etc. Sorry, but it just doesn't work. If you think it does, give the exact details of where and how and what you think and people will tell you why it just does not work.

[P in S.E.Asia]

brilliant theory charles III.

I wondered the same, why woudl u go to class n bragged thtau fcuked this chick knowin that smoething wrong happened to her?

my best bet is that the dude didn't even know the chick was missin when he went off to school the following day.

[PackerFanGirl]

Hey if there are any of you left that I was talking with earlier let's jump to the new posting area. Dan just posted that there is an anti-American media protest likely to happen shortly in Aruba. This ticks me off.

[PackerFanGirl]

Charles,

I still see your point and how you arrived at this idea but it just does not wash with the facts. As far as the bragging, it is not smart but it just seems to fit what he seems to be and the father was quite upest and worried when he heard he was bragging and a quick stop was put to it. If he had no involvement in her disappearance then I see no reason such a panic would have resulted on the father's part if his son was bragging about getting some from an American girl. As to the person who called the getting some by the "F" word, as others have pointed out throughout and for weeks, there could be children visiting this web site and there are far better ways of saying what you want to say that would not offend anyone thank using obscenities.

[P in S.E.Asia]

u see the closed mindedness one has to deal with? the F word as i described earlier can be found in dictionaries the world over, yet we seek to keep it from the viewing public - u people go ahead, im done with this

[diogenes]

can anyone believe the Dutch Judiciary in amsterdam has not fired pvds? that speaks volumes to lawyers.
It is clear that we will get no further facts from the 'aruban' legal system or police investigative forces. most police in areas like ruba are on the take from the drug thugs et al.judges, well i'll let you be the 'judge'on that.
I think people that care about justice and legal retribution should simply get ready to be disappointed badly.
the punk will walk in 60 days. But the beauty of that is, all the van dersluts will be 'legally' innocent under aruban law. Then, then the van der sluts will become systematically destabilized.

[diogenes]

can anyone believe the Dutch Judiciary in amsterdam has not fired pvds? that speaks volumes to lawyers.
It is clear that we will get no further facts from the 'aruban' legal system or police investigative forces. most police in areas like ruba are on the take from the drug thugs et al.judges, well i'll let you be the 'judge'on that.
I think people that care about justice and legal retribution should simply get ready to be disappointed badly.
the punk will walk in 60 days. But the beauty of that is, all the van dersluts will be 'legally' innocent under aruban law. Then, then the van der sluts will become systematically destabilized.