Light News and An Introduction

News from Aruba may indicate the search of the pond is wrapping up with ho  no results. Hopefully, people will start demanding a bit more credibility from witnesses before they go off searching everywhere. This case is going to come down to a confession, or a lack thereof - it's hard to see another result right now.

Also, I would like to introduce you to Jane at Armies Of Liberation. A web logger, she has now had her material published in various publications and she has a special talent for getting involved in issues in the MIddle-East. Check it out. Quality stuff.

Update: No comments as regards the correction, please!! The guys will start talking about that Arlene Ellis-Schipper, again.

Comments

[Stumped]

uhhh, not to be immature or anything but, "nana nana boo boo" I'm first.

[mariaK]

You've got panels of "experts" on talk shows discussing how the "credible" witness put the suspects at the Raquet Club. You've got Jossy Mansur throwing out one bizarre theory after another, then discrediting his own ideas. (Come on, Joran trying to buy ONE shoe to match a remaining shoe!) You've got Tim Miller on TV struggling to believe these witness sightings are even possible. (A witness saw blond hair and a woman's breast in a trash bag thrown out by 3 men who he can't identify.) Still, if any of these progressively weirder claims get blown off, you'll see Nancy Grace screwing up her rubber-like face and screaming incompetence. Worse, you'll see Geraldo having to tell "doll" that maybe this wasn't the break HE has been waiting for. (Do you think he has been up nights worried sick that this case may be solved without him?)

[dan]

Dan,

In investigations, leads must be followed through on a credibilty standard that is different from the standard you use when printing a story.

You claim that the credibility of these witnesses was lacking to justify the search (you implied that claim, no doubt). What were the facts in front of the authorities who made the decision to search? Do you even know what they knew when they decided to drain the pond? Do you even know for sure that no evidence turned up, or will turn up in the pond?

It wouldn't be beneficial to demand information from a credible witness as a prerequisite to searching or following a lead. You need to research investigatory tactics (specifically those that are commonly used and work well) before you spout off.

Love, Dan

[ashleigh]

I guess beggars can't be choosers, and they have to go with some of these whacky leads. I don't think the landfill is going to yield any positive clues, either. I think that she's either in the ocean, or out of the island, either buried at another location on another island, or alive somewhere else. I am very dubious about Jossy and his leads, and that shady loud-mouthed P.I. TJ ward. I feel so sorry for the H/Ts. :(

[Dan]

Dear Dan,

Save the crap about invesigative "tactics," since when do they include lying? Puhlease ... do your homework on the information, this had nothing to do with "technique." It isn't a matter of the witness even being credible - even the translator denies the report.

[Dan]

Dan,

When leads are few and thin, US law enforcement ALWAYS seeks evidence even when the source leading to the potential evidence is less then credible. This is the way it is done.

Also, I'm not sure what world you think you're living in, but investigative tactics in the US have ALWAYS AND STILL INCLUDE LYING. To get confessions from suspects, US (including state and local) investigators rely primarily on lying. It is completely constitutional (according to the US supreme court). Investigators usually tell murder suspects that they have a body and eyewitness + physical evidence that conclusively proves the suspect that he is guilty. They of course make it all up, they may have no body and not a shred of evidence.

When you and others complain that the FBI wasn't interrogating Joran and gang immediately after the disappearance of Natalee, you should know that the FBI would have most certainly used the above lying tactic to induce a confession. No doubt about it.

I am a law student and I have extenstively studied police confession-inducing tactics.

[mick]

Dan's extensively studied police confession inducing tactics not withstanding, the real problem here is that I was completely wrong about the pond and wasted an hour or so arguing about last night.

[LornaD]

"wrapping up with ho results"

HO RESULTS ?

I shudder to ask.

(I am just TEASING you Dan! I know it's a typo -- but it's STILL funny!)

[k.jeanne]

A nagging, uncomfortable, feeling is starting to emerge for me. Of course I have always had my fears and doubts about a resolution to this case, but still held out hope. It seems there are NO credible leads, nothing to hitch our hopes to anymore. Yet, Beth continues to be optimistic as though she knows something the rest of us do not know. I don't really think there are any worth while witnesses. They surely would have come forward much sooner. The investigation needs brains behind it. If the attorneys are allowed to block the FBI, then it is sunk again.

[Pink Cobrazz]

Dan,

In investigations, leads must be followed through on a credibilty standard that is different from the standard you use when printing a story.

You claim that the credibility of these witnesses was lacking to justify the search (you implied that claim, no doubt). What were the facts in front of the authorities who made the decision to search? Do you even know what they knew when they decided to drain the pond? Do you even know for sure that no evidence turned up, or will turn up in the pond?

It wouldn't be beneficial to demand information from a credible witness as a prerequisite to searching or following a lead. You need to research investigatory tactics (specifically those that are commonly used and work well) before you spout off.

Love, Dan

Okey!! Okey!!! I get it now!! This is supposed
to be a joke and we are supposed to guess who
you really are.

ok..uhhh You are Get Smart..Agent 86 right?

Operator: "What number are you calling?"

Max: "I'm calling Control, Operator…"

Operator: "You have dialed incorrectly. Give me your name and address and your dime will be refunded."

Max: "Operator, I'm calling from my shoe!"

Operator: "What is the number of your shoe?"

Max: "It's an unlisted shoe, Operator!"

[peggy]

MariaK and Ashleigh...could not have said it better!!!!

This case seems to be going nowhere.

I'm so frustrated and I don't even know these people.

Why no trace of her?

I discounted all the rumors and innuendos about corruption and dishonesty ,but now I am beginning to wonder.

I pray that her family has more info than the rest of us.

And hope that her Mother's tenacity will prevail!!

[Pink Cobrazz]

I've said it before..gonna repeat it again...
Time to wrap up the search!! Everyone has tried..
and getting no where. Pack up..head for home.
if the Twitty's wanna move to Aruba fine.
However they want to spend their own money
is their business.

As fas as I'm concerned..all the digging and
following bogus leads needs to end now.
At this point..finding the body (if she is dead)
is only going to be bones..so other then giving the family closure..would serve no other purpose
at this point.

My heart goes out to this family..and they
have my prayers. But lets have some common sense here!!

[letsbefair]

Dan,

When leads are few and thin, US law enforcement ALWAYS seeks evidence even when the source leading to the potential evidence is less then credible. This is the way it is done.

Also, I'm not sure what world you think you're living in, but investigative tactics in the US have ALWAYS AND STILL INCLUDE LYING. To get confessions from suspects, US (including state and local) investigators rely primarily on lying. It is completely constitutional (according to the US supreme court). Investigators usually tell murder suspects that they have a body and eyewitness + physical evidence that conclusively proves the suspect that he is guilty. They of course make it all up, they may have no body and not a shred of evidence.

When you and others complain that the FBI wasn't interrogating Joran and gang immediately after the disappearance of Natalee, you should know that the FBI would have most certainly used the above lying tactic to induce a confession. No doubt about it.

I am a law student and I have extenstively studied police confession-inducing tactics.

Posted by: Dan | July 30, 2005 05:03 PM

Interrogator: Why did Deepak say you killed her and buried her body?

Joran: Maybe because Deepak killed her and buried her body?

MSM: That's it! We have a confession! Joran said "Deepak killed her and buried her body"

When is everyon going to stop barking up the wrong tree?

[ohmygod]

if you don't like the way the investigation is going... shut up and do it yourself

[shonane]

I don't believe that Joran was going around trying to buy one shoe. That is stupid and I think that he is probably pretty smart. Shoes aren't sold in ones anyway. Perhaps it is true that the search of his house found only one shoe, and maybe Joran was shopping for shoes (if he lost one from a pair then the would have needed a new pair that would make sense), but going around trying to buy one? Well, that sounds like it is made up.

[Pink Cobrazz]

I don't believe that Joran was going around trying to buy one shoe. That is stupid and I think that he is probably pretty smart. Shoes aren't sold in ones anyway. Perhaps it is true that the search of his house found only one shoe, and maybe Joran was shopping for shoes (if he lost one from a pair then the would have needed a new pair that would make sense), but going around trying to buy one? Well, that sounds like it is made up.

Posted by: shonane | July

I have to agree!! BUT I can see Jossy Mansur
running around trying to buy one shoe. He
probably has seen ads from K-Mart with the
blue light special. Buy one..get one free.

The guy is a sleaze ball in my opinion.

[Nuke Aruba]

Jossy is probably using duct tape to hold his worn out shoes together...

[sleuth]

Dan, I love your typo's. I have been out in the hot sun for most of the afternoon, and come in to catch up and I see you are posting to yourself. Hmmmmm. Need some sleep? Just needed someone smart to talk to?

[Nuke Aruba]

I think we should sned Condi Rice down there in her go-go boots and short skirt..."Joran...baby..I wanna ask you a few quetions...but if I dont like the answers....guess where my heels are gonna be stomping?"

[Jessie]

Starting out this subject with a post from Dan to Dan is damn confusing. I think I lost a shoe in tha muck. Anybody here have a pump or a backhoe?

[*SouthernBELLE*]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha... OMG.. I am dying here... Where's DAX? HE HAS TO SEE THIS! (Sorry Dan, but I LOVED that typo) !!!

[FloridaPatty]

Dan,
Not sure if you're having a "Sybil" conversation there but never have you stated your leads as fact.

[Jessie]

Arlene Ellis-Schipper, what a cutie. What a beauty.

[Dan]

Alright, Dan - I didn't realize this conversationw as still going on - but read the damn information. Noone has suggested that the police were using inappropriate techniques. Geesh! The individuals bring forth the witness were lying. Get it?? Read the linked article. You say you're a law student, do some research before you pop off. Talking to you is getting as crazy as talking to myself!!

[mariaK]

Arlene Ellis-Schipper needs to have her own Fox News or CNN show. She is as smart as Greta and quite easy on the eyes.

[sleuth]

Maybe it's catching, but I am confused! So many witnesses, so many lies! Or perhaps they were confused.

If someone who has the kind of time that it would take to make a timeline of these new witnesses, when they came forward, or when they were brought forward, either for the first time or second time, perhaps it would be helpful to us to see it set down in black and white.

And what about the white truck? Three guys in a white truck and another guy watching. Boy that is a good one.

I still have a sneaking suspicion Josie or however his name is spelled...anyone want to post that? I think Josie is bringing these peasants forward, paying them, and enjoying his 60 days of fame, for however long he can keep it going, and as far as finding Natalie goes, well...lots of speculation there.

[TS]

I still have a sneaking suspicion Josie or however his name is spelled...anyone want to post that? I think Josie is bringing these peasants forward, paying them, and enjoying his 60 days of fame, for however long he can keep it going, and as far as finding Natalie goes, well...lots of speculation there.
Posted by: sleuth | July 30, 2005 07:12 PM

I think you hit the nail on the head, sleuth.

[mariaK]

Dan-could you please contact Fox "personality" John Kasich (the former Congressman with the child bride and twin babies) and school him on this case. He is hopelessly uninformed and he interrupts any information that his panel of experts may actually give to the audience. Also, I'm sure it is no coincidence that one of his "experts" is T.J. Ward.

[DeeDee]

Arlene is a beautiful young woman and has done very well in representing the Arubians with her interviews. She should run for office in the next elections!

[Jane]

Hey Dan, thanks!

[BILLW]

Dan

geez man I feel for you. when will this end and you will get your blog back to the way it was before this nonsense started

i miss the old days

know that we all love ya and some are sicker than others

READ MY BOOK ; )

Love

you know who your number one pal and supporter here

[Texas Joe]

About the shoe!

Isn't Joran a big time tennis player.

You know atheletes can be very picky, bordering on supersticious about there sports equipment.

Perhaps he found those shoes to be very comfortable and suited his style of play. They may have been the shoes that he played the best in at some tournament.

So it would not be a big deal to look for a pair that were exactly the same to replace an earlier pair.

I have done the same thing myself, not because I'm an athlete, just because I'm a lazy shopper and didn't want to go through the whole selection process again.

[DennisAOK]

Dan,

Yeah, the guys. Right. You didn't stare at those photos of Arlene for a few seconds, did you?

[ping]

Arlene made me drool the first time i saw her on fox news. I feel like a giddy little school girl. That's bad, considering i am a grown man.

[Aruban dude]

Lol yes arlene is a beauty.

Btw we have lots of amazing looking girls here.