Just a Walk On The Beach

With Joran Van der Sloot:

In Aruba, police took a jailed Dutch teenager to retrace his steps at the beach where he says he last saw 18-year-old Natalee Holloway the morning she disappeared from the island.

Comments

[rabroy]

JVDS, Croes and the Kalpoes have all lied and even admitted it themselves.Why did they lie if they had nothing criminal to hide. All these deserved to remain in detention for the entire 116 days until they prove beyond reasonable doubt why they lied. Hell knows better why they got released. Why should anybody including the investigation believe this walk on the beach story coming from proven liars.A couple fishing from 00:00 to 04:00hrs by the Marriot only saw a white SUV parked for about 30 minutes and they did not see anyone walking on the beach.What made JVDS take Natalee to the beach(if he did so).Is it because he liked her or he had a personal agenda to fulfil. If it was out of love then why did he leave her there in the wee hours of the night. No I don't buy that story.

[Jamie]

I totally agree...I think they are letting this kid get away with way too much. They need to threaten him if the have not yet done so. But I think the real evidence is on the man with the party boat who was arrested earlier in the investigation and then released. Even though there was no viewable (if thats a word) evidence that doesnt mean there is no forensic evidence of whatever of any kind. I have a very strong feeling she was on that boat that night!

[gab]

Aruba prison life
Guest: Attorney Dick Atkins
17-year old Joren Van Der Sloot, the prime suspect in the Natalee Holloway case, has been transferred to Aruba's main prison. Attorney Dick Atkins explained that the jail is comfortable, clean, and inmate-friendly.

"This is one of the better prisons in all of the Caribbean and one of the most modern in the whole world. The conditions there are incredible, better than almost any facility in the United States. It's very soft time."

http://www.billoreilly.com/show?action=viewTVShow&showID =329

[gab]

sorry for the dead link let's try it again~

http://www.billoreilly.com/show?action=viewTVShow&showID=329

[kerrilynn212]

It's incredible that this information is out there, yet the family doesn't seem to be told any of it. I would be so aggravated if I were them! Did you see that Greta finally interviewed the VDS parents? I guess that will air on Monday... I'm going to check the website now and see if it says anything new...

[Reader]

I agree with those who say the boys have one motivation to lie, and one only: CYA. If they were not guilty of something more, they would have one story repeated over and over again. Not a bunch of different lies. And since everyone here seems able to comment on what bothers them about this case, here's mine:

The idea that NH willingly had sex with Joran. Please. Have you looked at that guy? Maybe I'm pushing 40, but still recall the attractive guys from younger years. Mr. Frankenstein head wouldn't have been one of them.

The implied statements that this is just a misunderstanding, that NH is probably not dead. Well, maybe she's not dead, but this is more than a misunderstanding and innocent boys too scared to tell the truth. If she's alive it's 99 percent safe to say she's not willingly missing anymore. And again, if Joran had nothing to do with it, he wouldn't be lying out his arse -- still.

[max]

Dan have your sources in aruba mentioned or discussed the bacadero rumor or the axe guy story. Its a story on scared monkeys that seemed to me to have some unexplainable things. Supposedly 2 girls sighted a girl in a car while searching for natalee early on in the case. Were chased away with an axe. There is a man who posed for a picture with an axe over his face in one of the tickle profiles for satish kalpoe. Then the decapitated body of a murdered man. Could be sending a message to joran and the brothers not to talk. Then an anominous stranger leads equisearch to a make shift grave as to try and make people believe she is dead. They didnt even try to cover the grave. It all looks too coincidental. If you got better sources in aruba please ask about this.
Do you know anything more about Ian and political teen? Thank you max

[Max]

Forgot to mention this bacadero region supposedly has a shipping port that avoids being checked somehow. And it is hard to access area. And the freight supposedly goes out on the next day after the sighting. Its in scared monkeys discussion forum under finding natalee and under axe guy. Or read all the posts by resortowoman. I am sorry if this is an exhausted old news thing, it has just bothered me and had too many points of interest to dismiss it all without some real sources at least tried to be checked. As I am only a person who has barely learned to blog I of course have no sources in aruba. Except a few that posted on political teen. And some of them are in these tickle profiles too so who can say if they'd say anything. Thanks max

[WK]

The retrace at the beach indicates that the authotities don't (completely) believe Joran's beach story near the Marriott Hotel (and maybe that of the Kalpoe brothers too).
Nor do I. It's hard to believe that no traces at all could have been found if Natalee and Joran were indeed for some time on that beach.
It's also hard to believe that Natalee and Kalpoe were on the Croes-ship that very night. There would have been witnesses or at least traces.
"Everything" is possible. The authorities shouldn't not do their investigations only based on what Joran and the Kalpoe brothers did tell them (they lied maybe all times concerning the most important "facts"), but more based on the facts they really have, even if these facts are very limited.

[homcarern]

I am sure Yoran is having a fine time in the prison. He has TV/radio, newspapers and visits from Daddy who advises him what to say/do. Being the Psychopath which he seems he is playing games with the authorities staying ahead of them. It would not suprise me if he will given internet access in the future.

Mommy should be pleased that he has dried out from the amount of alcohol he was drinking and eating three good meals per day. He is also not running around the island after 11:00pm. Daddy is happy that he is in one place and he can controlled.

It also would not surprise me if he was being held in protective custody as can you imagine what his life would be like on the outside in Aruba. Seems that jail protected him from a visit by Natalee's family and this yellow bellied sap sucker hid behind the veil of prison bars.

In the island's laid back incompetance in investigative procedures it does not seem hard to play head games and be ahead of the police.

I think they are betting everyone being gone off the island by 9/4/05 when this detention is over and they can all go back to life as it was prior to 5/30/05. The VDSs have this time to get things together and when he gets out, they will leave Aruba and melt into the society of Holland. All Yoran has lost is his first semester at the University and life will go on for them. Not so for the Holloway/Twitty Family.

As a side note: A psychopath believes his victim deserved what was done to them and does not take any responsiblity. Yoran holds no responsiblity in what ever happened to Natalee.

[mona]

Too bad they never really searched the real crime scene....the Van der Slotts house...how very sad.

[gab]

well this is it i just saw on the news Equsearch is leaving Aruba as we speak we will never know or find Natalee

Posted by: mrp | July 17, 2005 09:24 AM

But will be returning on Thursday with more hi-tech equipment for deep ground searches

[sam]

Rabroy wrote:
"All these deserved to remain in detention for the entire 116 days until they prove beyond reasonable doubt why they lied."

I am amazed how so many people pretend (giving their intelligence the benefit of the doubt)ignorance of the law. In our society (and Dutch law is the same), it is exactly the opposite of what you say. The accused does not have to prove anything. The burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove "beyond a reasonable" doubt that they are guilty.

Joran maybe guilty of nothing more than bad manners to leave an girl on the beach in the wee hours of the morning and telling a naive fib so he wouldn't look bad.

Check out this thread at scaredmonkeys discussion board where it talks about the "real" evidence that a court would be hearing.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1261

Courts decide on facts in evidence and the accused is innocent until proven guilty... maybe you didn't know that.

[gab]

The courts/judges must have something otherwise, jvds would have/should have been released this week according to Dutch law-

[mona]

The aruban govt will take the fall for some 17 year old psychopath? The aruban govt was complicit in covering this up from day one? Do I smell a civil suit? or are the dutch not into that....

[To Hell With Aruba]

The Dutch are not going to do justice for Natalee either in a criminal suit or a civil suit - they have covered this up from day 1 - They are a bunch of savage murderous lying thieves - crap on the dutch and crap on Aruba - the world would be better off without the entire race.

I have said since day 1, they are playing this thing out with no answers in hopes that everyone will forget and they can say they did everything they could. They only want to protect their precious tourism.

To Hell With Aruba

[Anna]

Since PVDS has been feeding Joran all manner of legal advice since no corpse, no crime, it is likely he has told him to fabricate all these stories to counter-act his first confession which I believe may contain at least some truth. It has been stated over and over that suspects are not allowed attorneys during detention but I guess that is only during the actual interrogation itself. These suspects had the advantage of an attorney from the first.

Without a body there is no conviction without other hard evidence and we all know what happened to that. The only conclusion from the LE refusal to take evidence until ten days later (despite grabbing lots of it at the security guards homes) is that LE never intended to prosecute or establish guilt or innocence. And when there is no evidence presented, they will claim that is because there was none when we know full well they did not even try to collect it. They did this with the international media coverage. Sends a very strong message.

[clintcarter]

When do PVDS and Joran get to meet? I thought they didn't...

[iremember]

sam?
no one knows what the "real evidence" is in this case, outside of the Aruban LE office and (I hope to God) the FBI
Evrything else is speculation. There's an awful lot of smoke, and I am convinced that the Holloways know lots of things, but even they probably have not seen all the evidence.

Not that we should stop speculating, I just think that trying to predict the actions of a court based on what evidence we on the 'net know about is pretty pointless.

Just wish they would hurry this up!
Someone is guilty.

"something bad happened to Natalee"
"no body no crime"

[gorgeous george]

Dan, why did you delete the other posts from yesterday proving that Michelle GUmm lied about being in C&C the night Natalee disapeared? Her post on aruba.com is date and time stamped and proves she was not even in Aruba then. Her subsequent posts (aside from the one you have on your front page) show her interest in being famous. Why do people lie on message boards? Who knows, but Dan, you still have her post on your front page AFTER you've been shown that she is bogus. WHY? (Note how she works in the exchange student story?) PLEASE NOTE THE DATE AND TIME STAMP OF HER FIRST POST!

Again her are a few of her posts. Some are from Aruba.com.

Author: Michele Gumm (---.newhav01.mi.comcast.net)
Date: 05-29-05 20:18

Ok I just got back from the glorious Island just 15 minutes ago and feel compelled to write this.I loved your Island and will be back next year. My problem is I posted a truthfull post on Amsterdam Manor's web site and they did not post it. I will post it here and hopefully people who are making reservations will be told the truth about the place.I loved the hotel. The service was great and the staff was friendly. The mini mart was not open all the time it was supposed to be but ok, I did not need cigarettes anyway. The airconditioner worked marginally at best and always seemed to shut off in the middle of the night. Clean rooms and the maid service was great!The food was good small portions for what I thought was alot of money. Filo the bartender was subperb. Very nice to talk to and tells you all about the island.Will look him up when we come back.Managers should give him a raise, he is an asset.My problem is the smell of POOP!!!They back up to the sewer dump spot at the back of the hotel and when that breeze kids in...WHOA!

Re: Missing Girl
Author: Michele Gumm (---.newhav01.mi.comcast.net)
Date: 06-03-05 13:13

There was kinda of a shady guy that gave me the creeps that was staying at the Amsterdam manor when we were there last week. He claimed to be a foreign exchange student but kinda looked to old to be a student.. Maybe they could check it out.

Author: Michele Gumm (---.newhav01.mi.comcast.net)
Date: 06-06-05 19:08

I find this so distressing!My husband and I were on a snorkel tour with this young lady and her friends and we have pictures of them. I just don't understand why it was our destiny to have met her only briefly, and to laugh and enjoy the sun and ocean and the beautiful day...then to have this happen.Why did god put her into our lives only for a fleeting moment?Why were the stars of destiny lined up that way that particular day? I am praying for her safe return and for the entire family. I have had Fox news on for a week straight with all the updates. I wish I could be there to help and God Bless all the fine Aruban people who are helping.This will not keep us fromvisiting your Island...And please remember....Evil moves fast but good moves faster.

Author: Michele Gumm (---.newhav01.mi.comcast.net)
Date: 06-07-05 21:04

I was contacted tonight by MSNBC to share my experience with the world about the day I spent with those teenagers on the boat trip.I do not feel right about talking about it with the world until after I have spoke directly with her family.I spoke with another lady from a tv station in Birmingham, Alabama too.I just can't in good, moral standing comment on what I saw that day, or comment on the way those kids acted. We are all not naive , we were all kids once.When Natalee's family returns home with her, I will send them the photos I have and they can do with them as they see fit. I just don't feel that I should capitalize on this tragedy.I kinda got the feeling that there would've been a spin put on it like it was "Girls Gone Wild".Am I wrong?

[San]

"something bad happened to Natalee"
"no body no crime"

Those are the two statements that always come accross my mind. It is very distrubing to hear. And one of them came from a judge in training. He said it for a reason and he knows his son and his friends committed the crime.

[Selena]

The attorney representing Joran is from a firm that specializes in Corporate law, "Intellectual Property " as they state on their website.

Sjiem Fat, Carlo. (Johan Sjiem Fat and Antonio Carlo)

Antonio Carlo is an ex-student of Paulus. Who is giving them advice on how to proceed with the case??

Google Criminal lawyers, Aruba...you get Croes,Wever,Tchong...Hendrik Croes.

[rabroy]

Sam wrote that the boys have not committed a proven crime. I say they did unless obstruction of justice and lying is encouraged in Aruba. The boys lied from day one and the objective was to mislead the investigation. The Holiday Inn/Black security guards story was a smart and credible lie and we all fell for it for ten precious days.Yes they achieved their objective,and by the time they were picked up they had 10 precious days to achieve no body no crime.

[Selena]

http://www.aruba.com/pages/judicialsystem.htm

Basic information on the judicial system.
An easy read.

[andy]

http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/WHTI.pdf

well, you used to be able to travel to aruba w/o a passport, using just a driving license, no more.

[sam]

Raboy here's some more info..

Yes, I agree with you... probably he might be guilty of misrepresentation (not much of a penalty on that).

But, I don't think their was any attempt to frame anyone by the security guard story.
Why it wasn't a "frame-up."

a. They only mentioned. 1 security guard.
b. They said he was the security guard for the Holiday Inn.
c. I read that all security guards at the Holiday Inn at night are black, so I guess that is how you would describe one.
d. The two guys they arrested didn't work at the Holiday Inn, but for a hotel close by being renovated.
e. I read that they had been questioned a day before concening some stolen Mountain Brook students' cameras.
f. The police arrested them not based on Joran (or Kalpoes) statment, but because of the previous suspicion.
g. Kalpoes and Joran changed their story so they would clear the guards (if you are framing people, you keep framing them).

check out that link I gave..

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1261

And go to the site in that posting where it talks about the real evidence. That page will give some very good reasons why Joran might have lied (and the Kalpoes too) and be totally innocent of any harm to Natalee.

[AMotherAlso]

Did anyone notice in the video of Joran at the beach yesterday, he pounds the front of the police car with his handcuffed fists as he returns to the car? Then another officer walks over as he opens the door, obviously asks him to step away - Joran looks completed frustrated. My wish is that they will continue to frustrate him for it's obvious he may be tiring of the game, or keeping his smirking game-face on 24/7. Time will tell.

[sam]

AMotherAlso wrote:

"...smirking"

Yes, indeed, any one caught "smirking" should be hanged.

Plus, people who sweat a lot.

[CC]

smirking is completely inappropriate and typical of his smug behaviour

[kerrilynn212]

Sam,
I don't think that is what Amother is trying to say. What she is saying is that Joran is the only suspect at this time, and he sometimes has these smiling, sarcastic, yes, smirking looks when the cameras are on him.

[andy]

With all this in mind, we probably need to inquire with state representatives to lower the drinking age to 18 in a few counties that are tourist based to keep our 18 yr olds from vanishing overseas like what happened in Aruba. We have some nice areas like Pensacola, Padre Island, Gulfport, San Diego, etc. The main problem is drinking/driving; but a law can be implemented where if you are under 18 you must surrender your drivers license, pay a up front fee for taxi service to your hotel; based on the qty of people in your group. In my opinion if you can get married and fight a war at 18, then you should be able to have one drink per hour. I would rather see our teenages indulge here than overseas where we obviously have no recourse.

[Kat_Gram]

I also don't know why the Aruban authorities didn't avail themselves of the technology that Equusearch has. And the dogs to search the VDS property.

Nothing more has been said about the voice analyzer that Mr. Twitty was going to make available. Maybe they could run it on the VDS interview or previous interviews.

This case has nothing to do with the Dutch system vs the American system. At the heart of it is who Joran's father is and the inability of the police to conduct an inpartial investigation based on PVDS's staus in their judicial system.

I really dislike both VDS parents. They speak of their son as if the sun shines out of his a@#. They seem very smug to me. Joran has some serious problems, drinking, gambling, and then there is the porno movie question. But his mother speaks of him as if he is two years old. He has been very indulged in his short life and he probably has never faced any consequence for his behaviour... PVDS / AVDS don't seem to realize what an out of control sick boy he is.

[berry]

I did not note Joran "pounding the car". You could not see if his hands made contact with anything or not.

[gab]

Does anyone know if a list has been compiled with names/address of authorities, representatives, Queen Beatrix, contacts that folks can send letters/e-mails to voice their concerns/opinions regarding this investigation and if so, where can this list be found?

Thanks, GAB

[andy]

Working with the Aruban authorities is a lost cause; it's all smoke and mirriors; they are just trying to wear down those still pursuing the search. I sense it will take Aruba at least two generations to overcome this tragic episode. That's the current generation and their childrens generation. Had they had been honest and upfront; it would have been a small unfortunate blemish; and life as usual. Since they went with a coverup and scandal; the damage is always 777 times worse; as it states in a famous book that has been around for 2000+ years.

[gab]

Aruban investigation = Natalee
No Natalee = No Aruba

[hopefulcanadian]

lol... Queen Beatrix??
sorry, that gave me a chuckle; aside from being on their money; she has absolutely no influence over anything.... not in the Netherlands; and certainly not in Aruba..lol....

sigh... this case has gotten too many people riled up over too little evidence; and too MUCH speculation.... neither Aruba, nor the Netherlands have anything to answer for here; its a criminal investigation; being handled by local police. I'm sure if it were happening in Rural Alabama or rural ANYWHERE in the US you'd have possible police bungling; due to lack of experience.

But that is the ONLY thing that we can even come close to saying went wrong on the Aruban end.... and if I were an Aruban, I'd consider it a GOOD thing that their society/police are not used to having to conduct homicide investigations...

I think people need to take a step back.... and calm down.... I know personally, I'm going to stop reading these blogs altogether; and just get back to my LIFE; lol, maybe some of you all should do the same.... you'll hear updates on real news sources if there is anything worth reporting... otherwise; these blogs just fill time till you get the next tid-bit out of Aruba; and during that time; people speculate; name-call and are just going in circles...its addictive; and some people on here are WAY PAST HOOKED; lol; I read "tideroller" a couple of times; COO COOOOOO

this isn't helping anyone...its like the Simpson case; people are only hooked because its been in the news so much; and there are an interesting "cast of characters"... the media is trying to find RATINGS; not trying to find Natalee... and now that they've even backed off... its spread into THIS.. BLOGGING...

I say again; its not productive... its not helping anyone... and its just speculation, and opinions.... so why bother??? I'm out..... back to reality.....

[icey]

I wonder what's the point with the beach trip yesterday? I guess it can still be useful, but I fear that they are going to persue the case to a point were all 3 agree they saw Natalee last, then they stop the case. Maybe I'm wrong, and LE is doing a great job considering they started 10 days late.

Hopefully the family has a good PI, somebody who can work for their interests only.

icey

[Kat_Gram]

I would take the time to write / email if I had some sddresses. I have no idea why I am so angry about this whole situation. I feel tremendous empathy towards Natalee's family. I know they are not going to give up and go home. They might go home but I would hope that they leave the FBI monitoring the situation.

I live in Canada and there was a case here recently where a girl was missing. The family and the police knew her ex boyfriend did it. But there was no body and no evidence. The under cover RCMP set him up where he told the
" officer " what he had done with the body. He thought he was home free because a year had passed and no charges were laid. Her body was found and there was enough evidence to link him to her killing. He got life in prison. Truth is stranger than fiction. He had buried her in a graveyard on top of a fresh grave that had someone else's coffin in it. The RCMP used some very dirty tricks but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone and they were able to make the charges stick. His confession to the officer was inadmissable, but the forensics that linked him to the body weren't.

[andy]

http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/WHTI.pdf

just coincidental due to the London bombings and terrorist crossing borders, partially closing open tourism for a lot of other islands around Aruba is not going to sit well for the bigger fish that feed on minows like the trio, their adversaries and scum bag that made Beth appologize - with this your talking about billions in lost revenue. I honestly feel sorry for the innocent and honest Arubans, but I think they are safe from harm. Since I am a minow, I must also leave too for a while.

[Trenton]

The best way we can honor Natalee is to never spend another American dollar on that sorry excuse of an island. I know there are plenty of good people there, but do we hear them protesting this corrupt, abominably handled investigation? No we don't. Let them find a new way to support themselves without our tourism dollars.

[CancunGirl]

hopefulcanadian:
This is the reason "tideroller" stated so eloquently that he and so many others still continue to talk about, discuss and obsess (if you will), about this case:

" due to a problem that arose with someone I knew, I also know that the US government officials can or will do next to nothing to help an American citizen in those countries. They say they can't interfere. Therefore, I know that Beth and Natalee's best bet is to keep her story in the public's eye and I want to do my small part to help."

[hopefulcanadian]

lol; couldn't resist; Cancungirl; does he(tideroller) intend to keep the story alive by nasty ranting and raving against others on this site and against Aruba??

I will state it again; and for the last time; ARUBA DID NOTHING WRONG.... the investigation is ongoing; and has been carried out with GOOD INTENTIONS; if not EXPERTISE... (that was not their FAULT)...

as far as the US not being able to "interfere"; NO THEY CANNOT; it is NOT THE US... and BESIDES; if he really wants to help people; he should start with things he CAN CHANGE via voting and letter writing etc etc in the US; the UNITED STATES POLICE; IN TEXAS dropped the ball on TIM MILLER"S DAUGHTERS CASE; remember; that is why that gentleman STARTED THE TEXAS SEARCH TEAM.... because POLICE IGNORED HIM when he said his daughter was missing; and said she was a runaway... she was later found DEAD; and her case isn't even on a police website for UNSOLVED CASES: TALK ABOUT INJUSTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (no fighter planes, no dutch navy, no thousands of dollars raised for HIS LITTLE GIRL....)

"Tideroller" should start helping some of the girls that CAN be helped by his "good intentions"; AT HOME.......

[hopefulcanadian]

oh yeah; forgot; this time, good luck all, and goodbye for GOOD...

[max]

Hopefulcanadian.
I have looked for someone from the other site for two days. Sorry to see you are leaving. I think you are right I am way addicted to this. I will have to see it through. Hope the Political teen sight will be back up soon. max

[andy]

hopefulcanadian, yes - in the US we have thousands of such crimes; not all are solved, but a good many are; where as in Aruba you have a 50-50 track record; if you are an officals son we know you can basically walk - that was not a screw up, that was the intent. If you are not an officals son, well, you are slammed. This was not ignorance on part of the Polis Dept; this was planned. Now, you are basically asking everyone to forgive; maybe in a year they'll find the body; long enough to get another human bone; transport it to scam artist whom will impregnate with the same DNA from her mom and go for a second scam of passing off as a bone of the deceased.

[fokje]

Andy, when it was obvious that there was corruption on the island, thus before Natalee dissapeared, then I could believe this was a cover up. But it seems not so I don't think so.

What I do believe that there might be in some way a cover up, which meens; telling the press Natalee is almost certainly dead. That kind of announcements can be a cover up when there is some reason to believe she is alive but might be in great danger. I wouldn't be surprised too when some day people get arrested out of nothing.
Although, I have the feeling Aruba has no clue at all what happened.

[fokje]

btw; impregnate a bone with DNA??? funny :)

[andy]

fokje - For you maybe, for I maybe not. It'll be 50+ yrs before it's back to normal. Don't you watch sci-fi ;)

[greyson]

I think that a week or so ago Beth said that she did not care if the boys were prosecuted or not - that she simply wanted to take Natalee back home. I, too, think that the VDS (P & J) as well as D&S Kalpoe know a whole lot more than they are telling, even if (and it seems ridiculous at this juncture) they are innocent of a crime other than obstruction of justice.

I am not at all enamored of the Aruban justice system - but look what happened to John and Patsy Ramsey and their young son - FOR YEARS. When DNA and other facts FINALLY cleared them and showed the murderer was a deceased individual, untold damage had been done. I think Boulder Colorado with its relatively felony-free reputation and a police dept. that botched it big time is analogus to what happened in Aruba.