Fox Update 2

Tito Lacle confirms male DNA found on Natalee Holloway's toothbrush. Without additional information that either Natalee returned to her room alone, or with one of the boys, it's hard to understand the significance of this new evidence.

Also claims several witnesses besides the Gardner have come forward to corroborate whatever information is leading to the draining of the pond. Search is also underway for a missing shoe (sneaker) of Joran Van der Sloot.

Developing - updates posted here.

Update A: Attorney of Joran Van der Sloot is fighting additional interrogation. Court hearing on Friday 2 PM. A procedural mistake in taking the DNA samples may delay the case. Possibility is that the judge allowed the DNA to be taken without the defense having been heard.  This would present more of a time delay than anything, as the prosecution could re-apply for the permission to take the DNA samples.

Update B: Here is the video of the John Walsh appearance on H and C tonight.

Update C: Link to video of Tito Lacle on Greta tonight.

Update D: From reader Michele

DNA samples from suspects in the Natalee Holloway case may need to be re-taken because the correct procedure was not followed, the Aruban prosecutors office says.

Attorneys for Joran van der Sloot, 17, and Satish Kalpoe, 18, went before a judge today to protest DNA samples that were sent to a lab in Holland last week.

A judge is expected to rule Friday. Prosecutors argued they had the right to take the samples, but agreed the procedure was improper, said a spokeswoman. Tests arent complete on the samples or on strands of blond hair found stuck to duct tape, which were also sent for testing. Meanwhile, police brought in extra pumps as they worked to drain a marshy pond on the Caribbean island. They believe there may be a clue there based on information from a new witness.

Comments

[FloridaPatty]

Shoe gets stuck in mud at the bottom of a dry but muddy retention pond. Hard to get it out, we'll leave it, who will find it and know whose shoe it is anyway.

That shoe would be signficantly important.

Mud in the car. The FBI will find traces of mud if they have scoured that car. Can trace it to the same type of dirt found in the bed of the pond. (just my take on it that's all)

[Sarah #1]

Well now the judge made a blunder in getting the boy's DNA.. My gosh.. how many more mistakes can this country make regarding this investigation?

[Sarah #1]

Not only a stuck shoe Patty, but now that I understand that this was just a muddy field.. and now its filled up with water.. it's no telling what kind of evidence they might find if the boys were in fact out there in that field with Natalee.

[((((elan))))]

give me a break, the toothbrush means nothing. now the shoe, that's news.

[CD]

Muddy field explains the Kalpoe brothers cleaning out their car.

[Coolbeans]

If I was the defense attorney and if the toothbrush DNA did not match, I would petition the judge for DNA samples of ALL MALE mountain brook students (and the family to rule out). I have not totally ruled out that a Jealous Johnnie might have done something as well.

And as for the DNA Come on. Another mistake. Now I know this is not a conspiracy, just pathetic incompetence. Really now, this is pathetic. Will someone tell them to put the Blunts down and let the high pass.

Do you think the Dutch are getting involved because the FBI is? The Dutch happen to be very good at forensics and the like. It is the Arubans that suck. I wonder is this turning out to be a pissing contest amoungst the elite forces?

Coolbeans-one tired chic, at a waterpark with 4 kids today.

[michele in bham]

DNA samples from suspects in the Natalee Holloway case may need to be re-taken because the correct procedure was not followed, the Aruban prosecutor’s office says.

Attorneys for Joran van der Sloot, 17, and Satish Kalpoe, 18, went before a judge today to protest DNA samples that were sent to a lab in Holland last week. A judge is expected to rule Friday.

Prosecutors argued they had the right to take the samples, but agreed the procedure was improper, said a spokeswoman. Tests aren’t complete on the samples — or on strands of blond hair found stuck to duct tape, which were also sent for testing. Meanwhile, police brought in extra pumps as they worked to drain a marshy pond on the Caribbean island. They believe there may be a clue there based on information from a new witness.

http://www.al.com/birminghamnews/breaking/index.ssf?/mtlogs/bama_bhamnews_break/archives/2005_07.html#070356

[Just Guessing]

How do they know the shoe is missing?

Maybe that's why the suspects kept coming back (3 times)--looking for the shoe (or other evidence)left behind.

Joran probably has the biggest feet on the island, so his sneaker would be a giveaway.

[Jessie]

One does not drive around in a car looking for a shoe. One gets out of the car and walks around looking for a shoe. At least that is the way we do it where I come from.

[Cat]

Maybe they werent driving around looking for a shoe, but for other evidence being left laying around.

[observer]

anyone else having a problem with the greta video link on political teen?

[Jessie]

Some must be kidding themselves here. There is not likely to be any mud anywhere on that island.
Sand, coral, salt, lava, yes. But mud? Get real.

[Susan]

Tonite Tito said that he was told by investigators that "many people have [told] the same story" about seeing the silver car in the area that night. I would like to know if many people is more than a few, which is 2, could many people be 3? I agree that the DNA mistake is utterly rediculous, but I also think that not having one judge, but multiple judges being flown in from Curico (Spelling?) is rediculous! Whats the point of swapping out judges if procedures are going to be carried out correctly? Like the DA that was also on the show, I am also curious as to how much evidence can be ruled out that was found by using the now "incorrectly obtained DNA." Another comment that just blows my top, what freak of a lawyer could possibly think that he has a chance of having his client not be interrogated any more when he can't keep a straight story? That is completely rediculous. I wonder if he goes to bed thinking "This kid is in some serious shit. He can't keep his mind focused on one conveinent story. I am fucked on what to do." I'm sure that the Kalpoe brothers are enjoying seeing their friend grilled to no end.

[icey]

The dna on the toothbrush will probably not be a match for either jvds or the kapoes. I'm sure the defense will have a field day with it if it's not from one of the 3.

Also, the point about collecting the boys dna incorrectly is a moot point. If the dna is a match, ALE will just ask for another sample and the request will be granted.
icey

[Michelle Sollicito]

Lets please stop giving Aruba police a hard time for "mistakes" or the length of time the investigation is taking? Any American crticizing Aruba should look at the Laci Peterson investigation where the body showed up a long time after she went missing and the case against her husband was tentative, or at the Elizabeth Smart investigation - where an innocent man was practically found guilty of the crime at one point - and the case was only solved when she turned up, nothing to do with the police really.

[icey]

The pond was supposed to be only 2 inches deep when NH disappeared, And it looks like it's a mud hole.

If you believe the story that the boys were there a few times, then perhaps they lost something, were checking on something, or this was a place to hang out and drink/smoke up.

icey

[hobo]

JustG--unless Joran changed shoes that night, I believe I saw some clod hoppers, like hiking boots, on him in one of the pictures at C most certainly not very stylish to wear at a party place.

CD--about the K brothers cleaning Dishpacks car-that's another thing that brings on the 'hmmm' response; that they were cleaning out Dishpacks car in a place other than where he worked (at a detail shop). His mother made a statement earlier that D was almost obsessed with the car, coupled with a remark about how close the three guys are. Lots of prayers for Natalee and her mom.

[boturd]

Jesse it is an jungle island of course there is mud there!!!

[hobo]

JustG--I meant to say C&Cs, not C. Sorry.

[chica]

Ther gardener works wiht Jossy Mansur's nephew, who is the one in prison.

[Jessie]

Well, if one does not know the difference between a desert island and a jungle island, they can't be helped on this forum.

[Maura]

I hope they find something in the pond. It would be great to get some answers in this case. What ever happened with the hair sample? Have they heard anything about that yet?

[boturd]

you are wrong, it is a jungle island, there are monkeys for pets there and what about that elephant, you don't know what your talking about

[cricket]

Lets please stop giving Aruba police a hard time for "mistakes" or the length of time the investigation is taking? Any American crticizing Aruba should look at the Laci Peterson investigation where the body showed up a long time after she went missing and the case against her husband was tentative, or at the Elizabeth Smart investigation - where an innocent man was practically found guilty of the crime at one point - and the case was only solved when she turned up, nothing to do with the police really.

Posted by: Michelle Sollicito | July 27, 2005 11:09 PM
_________________________________________________

I'm not complaining that the investigationis taking this long - what I'm upset about is that LE didn't do what they needed to do IN THE BEGINNING to secure the evidence.

You can't say that about the Laci Peterson investigation, because the Modesto Police immediately secured the scene (and Scott's warehouse), even though they weren't sure that it was a serious case. Their hinky meters went off - and they acted on it. The fact that they did that is what ultimately really helped in making that case.

The Smart case was different - the Smarts had a lot of people in their house trampling all over things before LE even got there. However, in the Smart case, LE bungled it by focusing in on one theory (Ricci) - which was wrong. And then they didn't release the sketch of the kidnapper right away - they sat on it for two months. It was America's Most Wanted that released it in conjunction with the Smarts.

[Jessie]

For the uninformed who consider Aruba a jungle.

"I'd never given much thought to the term "desert island" until I visited Aruba. But if the phrase is taken to mean "an island covered by desert" rather than "an island that's deserted," then, as they might say elsewhere in the Caribbean, Aruba's the ting.
The island's arid, rumpled landscape is bristling with long-armed cactuses, aloe plants and sad, spindly divi-divi trees bent low by the persistent winds. The key features of the island's interior are gigantic rock piles inhabited by wild goats, dry stream beds called rooi, the remains of early gold-mining operations, a few caves with ancient inscriptions and a massive volcanic stub of magnetic rock."

As for a monkey and elephant being evidence of a jungle island. I believe they have those as well as polar bears in the NYC zoo.

[kescah]

I'm wondering whether this draining of the pond is in response to the comments made that a witness claimed to know where the body is. It did come right after that, and I haven't heard anything about there being a search going on elsewhere. If they were just looking for a shoe, they probably would have told BHT that, and she would not be staying away from the pond.

[Jessie]

I think the person who said he knew where the body was buried pointed to the landfill. I think that why mobody is saying much about that. It is much easier to drain an acre or so pond with about 4 or 5 feet of relatively clear water in it than to rush out to the landfill.
Now that is a job that nobody wants. Not even the boys from Texas, is my guess. Even Jossy knew better than to have is guy point to the landfill.

[Gardener #2]

Their gardener works with Jossy Mansur's nephew, who is the one in prison.

Posted by: chica | July 27, 2005 11:29 PM

Hola Chica, So, on JUNE 13th? Jossy Mansur's brother's son who is in jail for illegal possession of arms and drugs, confronts Deepak Kalpoe while playing Dominoes in prison and makes him turn 'white' by saying my gardener saw you at the tennis club at 2:30 in the morning. Are you telling us that the Aruban Police with the FBI assisting could not make Deepak turn 'white' while they interrogated him for endless hours accusing him of Kidnapping, Rape and Murder?

So does the gardener visit Josie's nephew in Jail every day and bring him island fauna? How did he recognize three guys ducking and covering their faces in a car, does the gardener play tennis on his days off at the club? I doubt it, he couldn't even afford airconditioning. Did you know there are NO Street lights in that area! Can anyone honestly tell the difference between Deepak, Satish or Joran apart in a car the dark? That was not racial, that was just a point about it being dark!!!

[shonane]

CD--about the K brothers cleaning Dishpacks car-that's another thing that brings on the 'hmmm' response; that they were cleaning out Dishpacks car in a place other than where he worked (at a detail shop). His mother made a statement earlier that D was almost obsessed with the car, coupled with a remark about how close the three guys are. Lots of prayers for Natalee and her mom.

Posted by: hobo
=============================

I thought Deepak worked at an Internet cafe. That is a place where people pay to go and use computers and access the INTERNET - probably pretty lucrative with all the tourist that go there. Thus, there would not be anywhere there to clean his car and his mother said he doesn't even like to take it there and park it, that his brother drives, drops him off and takes it home. Regarding detailing washing the car - I do this once or twice a week. Doesn't really mean anything, especially if he is a person who is meticulous about keeping his car clean and waxed.

[Jessie]

Jossy describes being in jail for illegal possession of arms and drugs as nothing serious.
Suspose he learned that while he was going to school in Alabama years ago? Or maybe in Aruba in later years?

[chica]

to Gardener #2

I think the same as you. There's something fishy about this. I'm wondering how come jossy's nephew didn't say anything to no one in the family, and knowing that their family has a newspaper. Everybode in Aruba & abroad knows that 75% of what Diario say is not true. Their is a popular slogan that says: "Don't believe Diario".

[Gardener #2]

We are watching "josie" right now on Nancy Grace and he clearly said that in order to get from his "standard home near the racquet club to his employees home at Arashi, he had to pass by the pond on the way." Can you get from the Racquet Club to Arashi easily by passing by the pond down the cul-de-sac, which to me means a road with not exit?
Did the second witness see the Gardener?

[calista]

Lets please stop giving Aruba police a hard time for "mistakes" or the length of time the investigation is taking? Any American crticizing Aruba should look at the Laci Peterson investigation where the body showed up a long time after she went missing and the case against her husband was tentative, or at the Elizabeth Smart investigation - where an innocent man was practically found guilty of the crime at one point - and the case was only solved when she turned up, nothing to do with the police really.

Posted by: Michelle Sollicito | July 27, 2005 11:09 PM

these are not your every day mistakes...this is top of the line botching and corruption....and as for Laci they would have had a good case even wihtout her body scotts behavior did him in.....and we won't even go into the evidence lost by the ruba police letting joran and co run free for ten days.......sure police make mistakes but this was no mistake...they didn't want this case solved and it showed

[Jessie]

Forget about the Arubian Police. This case is headed over a cliff, full steam ahead, and the stepfather, Jossy, and the PI's are doing one hell of a lot to push it over that cliff. Yes, things are really moving now, as they are so fond of saying. Yes absolutely!! If you thought the Ramsey case was a mess, wait until the press and these people get through with this case.

[BeFuddled]

Hi everybody. I've been away for 5 days. Just tried to catch up on all the updates...
WOW!!!!!
So what is true, and what is story??????

[Luke]

BeFuddled,
Your guess is as good as anybody's!

[FloridaPatty]

Dan thanks for those hyperlinks to the interviews on Wednesday night.

*If people have not seen them, they are worth watching. John Walsh alone makes endless valuable points in his discussion*

[ohmygod]

JustG--unless Joran changed shoes that night, I believe I saw some clod hoppers, like hiking boots, on him in one of the pictures at C most certainly not very stylish to wear at a party place.

Posted by: hobo

=============================
That was at another party a few weeks before

[Reader]

I've always used Reader as my name, but didn't post the sentence about Deepak above. Not sure who did.

Anyway, why hasn't anyone mentioned the fact that the defense complaints we're hearing about are strictly coming from Joran and Satish's defense attorneys...nothing from Deepak's? Why not? A lawyer's job is to give the best defense possible. Which would include a flurry of motions on evidence and procedure. It is only by client request and sign-off the lawyer will not file such things.

Is it possible Deepak has requested his lawyer not do what Satish and Joran's are doing - and if so, for what reasons?

[hrithik roshan]

What the car was doing in the dark with three boys in it? Wel wel, maybe those boys were gay and they were having their way over there with each other.

[mc]

I am really learning to dislike blogging. It is like a giant AOL chat room; with all the charm and class
goodbye

[kell]

I know its early. is anyone on here?

[DennisAOK]

Finding one of Joran's shoes will disprove his contention that he walked home that night. (I guess they have the mate and he must have been spotted with those shoes on that evening.) The search of his place must have turned up only one shoe.

[sol rosenberg]

Probably her brother's DNA on the toothbrush. I used to use my brother's toothbrush when I was a kid...just to irritate him!

The shoe is interesting...how in the world did the authorities pick up on the potential of Joron leaving his shoe out in that field? That would appear to be very inside information...I wonder what other tidbits of info. are out there?

The DNA issue is just a formality. They will all be required to give it.

Huumm....

[Melanie]

It is frightening to see the mistakes being made by investigators in the Natalee Holloway case. I was thinking if the three main suspects in this case are ever found guilty for murder what will happen to them? They wouldn't receive the death sentence and I'm not sure that they would even receive life w/o parole. As a mother I feel that this is such a horrific situation and that calls for drastic measures. Somehow the Kalpoe boys would disappear until I know where my daughter is.... I know that sounds like a vigilante type move, but those thoughts enter my mind. Does it enter anyone elses? As a Christian we are not to think that way, but when your children are missing, possibly dead it stirs up emotions that normally are not there.

[Paulo]

MSMBC UPDATE: At 2:11PM EST,

MSMBC's correspondent on location in Aruba reported that the lake still has NOT been adequately drained for any searching to be going on at all. It appears that the Aruban LE need some other equipment to get the remaining water drained.

In the interim, Equusearch, is testing their ground penetrating sonar as well as their device for sensing methane gases.

[lardo]

Is Jossy Mansur Part of an Aruban Coverup?

Jossy Mansur, the editor of the Diario newspaper in Aruba, has been a primary source of information for Fox News on the Natalee Holloway case. But Jossy is also a member of the Mansur family, reputedly involved in money laundering, drug smuggling and other criminal activities on Aruba and in Venezuela for decades. The Mansur family controls 60% of the wealth of Aruba and is wealthier than the Aruban government. See http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm for details.

Is Jossy Mansur leading Fox News away from the real problems on Aruba, namely, organized crime, smuggling and sex slavery? Just how corrupt is Aruba? Read the article above to find out.