Fox Confession: What Just Happened

Pardon me for throwing water on anyones parade over Fox's old / new confession story. Greta Van Sustern just had on a reporter from Diario who walked through Joran v d Sloot's crying confession that he and Deepak Kalpoe, and possibly another buried Natalee Holloway. This is the rumored confession we had heard about so early in the investigation.

Aside from not knowing the veracity of the confession, I have just one question, which perhaps a Dutch legal scholar can address.

Under Dutch Law, given that this alleged "confession" is now all over the media, doesn't that all but ensure that it can never be used against Joran Van der Sloot should he ever be charged?

If so, than you have to ask yourself if Fox just landed a big scoop, or was lured into giving Joran v d Sloot a perfect out from any alleged confession. Personally, I have held some information back and continue to precisely out of a concern for messing up a potential prosecution.

I sure hope Fox and Greta looked into the Dutch law books before that report. They may well have, so I am not implying otherwise at this point. And if it is the case as per above, it would actually be Diario who would be at fault. The next question being, who leaked the info and why?

With rumors already suggesting some close to the investigation want to give Joran a pass ... leaking a confession in a system as closed as we see in Aruba wouldn't be a bad way to ensure that unfortunate outcome. Behind the scenes nearly every journalist I've spoken to, none from Fox BTW ... have indicated a certain caution as regards making information public because of the non-transparent Dutch legal system.

Comments

[b.heart]

Loren,
I think you have made an important point-the perps very likely could have buried a body in a panic, probably in an area not allowed by the local higher authorities to be searched only to have a cooler, legal head point out to them that without a body there would be no case. With the proper connections the body would have been relocated to a place where it would never be found. The ocean is a big place and apparently there is no end of ships that leave the island on shady business trips.

[harry]

For those of you desiring to call the US State Department Representative in the Netherland Antilles on Curacao, the number is 001-599-9-461-3066. His name is Consul General Robert E. Sorenson. I am sure he is quivering with anticipation to hear your suggestions.

[mrsJimiHendrix]

harry

easy now : )

aloha!!

mrsjimi

[Dirk]

I disagree Tali, Let him come here, I'll show him what a "warm welcome" is like. Frankly, if Joran tried to pull his left-wing murderous Dutch crap here in America we'd teach him a lesson or two. Send him over here, I'll be waiting!

Posted by: Chuck | July 12, 2005 12:15 AM

Whats that, Chuck. Banana Republic Justice???

[justice]

The "emperors" of Aruba have no clothes.

The charade has to be an embarrassment for the Netherlands. Doesn't it?

[The Tell Truth]

Chuck,

Not sure what relevance if any this is, but I just found it interesting the Satish was on his tickle site today and Dpak is on right now. Interesting, considering it is 1:20am in Aruba right now.

[observer]

I read the transcript from the Fox interview about the confession. It seemed damaging to the 3 suspects, assuming it's true (of course a big assumption). Then why is everyone on here so depressed and believe that Juron will be released tomorrow. What info do you guys have leading to that feeling?

[Canadian Girl]

At this point if I were the Holloways I would try to make a deal with VDS. Have someone give an anonymous call re. the body and take Natalee and leave the island. With all the bunggling and cover up it will be a miracle if charges are ever laid. Even if that miracle occured and they were charged there isn't a snowballs pray in hell they will be found guilty.

Just tell these people where the body is so they can return to the US with her family!!
There will never be justice for Natalee, at least not legal justice. I hope karma is something everyone in this murder/cover-up experiences one day!!

[harry]

If there is any truth to that confession, all three kids will be in prison tomorrow night.

[wreck]

My feeling is that the "powers that be" in Aruba don't want this solved. It's bad for tourism, bad for the "Lions" of their "underbelly," and bad for the son of the Polis Commissioner's best friend. Did you read Dan's post of this forum? That is all you need to know.

[Canadian Girl]

Harry

I wish I shared your optamism. If there is any truth to this confession and it occured weeks ago, why were the Kalpoes released??

[harry]

The confession may not have been before the judge when the prosecutor requested pre-trial detention. Remember, the prosecutor has been withholding evidence, so the defense attorneys would not be privy to what the police investigation had accumulated. She may have never dreamed that the judge would release the Kalpoes.

[Canada Goose]

Aruba's economy needs to be brought to a grinding halt. 60% of their economy is generated by the tourism industry. We have control over that. May all foreigners join in and exclude Aruba as a destination for a holiday until this case is solved and those responsible brought to justice. There are many other beautiful locations to choose from. It is apparent that Joran (sounds like urine), is just another Dutch "Kennedy" and can get away with rape and/or murder. The FBI need to be allowed to interview the three young men, preferably with a little electricity or sodium pentathol. There are amazing psychics that have cracked criminal cases, in great detail, in the USA. Bring them on board to help solve this case. I hope the Holloway's may be comforted during this time and realize that some cases do not get solved and that justice sometimes is not meted out. Thankfully, there is an eternal judge that has witnessed every deep and dark action of the accused. Ulitmately, He knows and will give a fitting judgement upon their heads. We all need to pray for the Aruba authorities and for a break in the case. Aruba: Hell no, we won't go!
God bless all those that are striving so diligently.
Canada Goose

[calista]

I am just lost once again...this case is just so full of b.s.........what ever happebed to this alleged confession way back when it was reported the first time? who was the police spokesperson who said it? did they just make it up? It seems unlikely a police officer would but in this case who knows.....and again if natalee was just buried in the sand somewhere would they not have found her by now? I mean what in the world is going on??? I am getting so tired of this whole sorted thing and arubas corrupt system of lies lies lies - everyhting they have said in the media turns out to be a LIE - just like they said all 3 boys were chrged with murder from day one but they didn't say anything so as not to hurt natalees family....oh but then they let 2 of them out with no charges??? and I odn't even want to go into steve croes and paul vandersloot and their bs stories and obstruction of this case....no, natalee holloway is not any more important than any other missing person but I have never ever seen this kind of botched police work and corruption in my life.....I am seriously getting SICK of it.......I would never ever go to Aruba just on the fact they would allow this mess to go on

[Anna]

Did anybody hear them saying over and over that without a body, there is no proof there was a crime even with a confession? Looks as though Papa VDS gave some very, very good advice.

[harry]

With a confession, all they need is what is known as a "fact of death." They do not need a body per se. If they have some forensic evidence that suggests a death, the confession will suffice for a conviction. Without a confesion though, they would need a body with forensics connecting the culprit with the death. One defense attorney stated that dirt found in the clothing similar to the dirt in the area where the confession claimed the death occurred would be sufficient.

[calista]

I odn't even believe they have any "technical" evidence - these people have said a million things all which turned out to be lies..........just makes me sick......beth has to apologize for wanting her daughter found and yet these 3 boys and whoever else is involved never had to apologize for lying and putting 2 innocent men in jail...........corrupt corrupt corrupt

[calista]

well harry you dont have to worry about them finding any dirt on clothing because the police gave the boys 2 weeks to get rid of the evidence

[harry]

The first two people the police arrested were not altar boys. The police had good reason to arrest them.

As for the dirt, it was just an example. It is unfortunate that the police did not collect evidence on the kids early on.

[calista]

the only "good reason" the police had to arrest them was that the kalpoes and joran said two black security guards approached natalee when they dropped her off at the holiday inn....alatar boya or not..............we all know natalee never even made it to the holiday inn and nobody approached her because she was never there and neither were the 2 guards

[xander]

@chuck,

the dutch weren't invited to your hemisphere by the U.S. of A because the U.s of A did not exist in 1636!

[Noot Jingritch]

Gimme a break. Isn't it easy to see what is happening? The case is fading from the limelight -- the A-rab terrorists have bombed London, Equusearch is about to leave the Island, the Hollandish faggots with their F-16s find nothing...... Fox's goldmine story is on the verge of petering into nothing. So of COURSE they sensationalize a bogus confession that Joran van der Faggot made a long time ago. This is not news. This is OLDS! Fox is just trying to draw attention to a story (and milk it) that is dying. There ain't no story here. Joran the bloodthirsty faggot will walk as well as those two murdering sissy man-loving Hindus. This "confession" crap is a bunch of bull-sheeit!

[seedyrum]

And think about this: By now we all know Natalee was in the car, so it only makes sense that there would be at least some hair and fiber traces there. So if the cops found nothing, nada, zip—then that means someone went over that car in a manner that is WAY beyond normal cleaning, because normal cleaning almost never gets every trace of a person out of a car. Such a cleaning can only be (in this context) considered destroying evidence, whether for Joran or on their own behalf.

I think that in some small way, a complete and total LACK of trace evidence linking Natalee to the Kalpoe car could be considered one more small piece of the jigsaw puzzle that may eventually picture their guilt—if indeed they are guilty.

If they were so innocent and she was in their car, why is the car cleaned with perfection?

I think ommission of evidence is always indication of a crime
in this particular situation.

People with nothing to hide, hide nothing

[Moggy]

I have seen nothing on the CNN or FOX websites saying anything about this rumor about the fishermens huts??

Does anyone have a link to any credible information?

I am in England so am not able to watch fox news on TV.

Thanks.

[Chuck, you idiot]

@chuck

So the Dutch are guests in the northern hemisphere, so just because America happens to be in there all other countries are guests? Typical American 'we own and rule the world' idiotic comment.

The Netherlands, just like the rest of Europe, Russia and China are all located in the northern hemisphere, you idiot. Australians would be guests.

[Texas Joe]

Perhaps the editor of Diario had some inside information that jvds was about to be released at court tomorrow as his detention is reviewed. Perhaps Jossey Manseur wanted to report this confession story to embarras the Aruban justice system...how could they possibly release that little slimeball on the heels of a story about his tearfull confession!

[Blue Dog]

Jossey Manseur, editor of Diario, is a member of the family that is said to own about 60% of Aruba. It is said that he tries to call the shots or at least influence decisions on important things on the Island. I would say that he wants somebody to stay in jail no matter if the evidence is there or not. Like many here have noted, this is old stuff going back to June 11 or so. But the higher ups engineered a retraction and the buried on the beach part was not revealed on June 11. I would trust Jossey about as far as I could throw him, and he looks like a rather large man to me.

[Dave]

Chuck, I'm sorry, but you are arguably one of the dumbest fuckin people I've ever come across in this world. Liberal, conservative, who cares? This case has nothing to do with it. Go hide in the closet with your tin hat. This is coming from a guy who voted republican last election.

[Lago girl]

Chuck,

The Dutch were already in the Western Hemisphere in the West Indies when the American revolutionist rebels were fighting for freemdom for the thirteen original colonies.

The first salute was by a Dutch ship in the harbor of St. Eustatius firing a salute to the flag of a ship of the colonists entering the harbor.

http://www.historytoday.com/dt_main_allatonce.asp?gid=16576&aid=&tgid=&amid=16576&g16576=x&g19126=x&g30028=x&g20991=x&g21010=x&g19965=x&g19963=x

http://www.travelintelligence.com/wsd/articles/art_718.html

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-doners-of-foreigner-aid-map.html

The Netherlands is about the size of New Jersey with a population of 12 million...but they donate one quarter of the amount donated by the United States...in dollars...3.4 billion dollars versus 12.9 billion...

Tell me, is the United states 4 times the size of New Jersey and the population of the United States 4 times 12 million?

Do the math...any method still has the Netherlands giving far more per capita than the United States gives per capita.

Dirk is absolutely correct about the humanitarian and protective endeavors of the Netherlands.

And, they were right beside the Americans and the Brits in Iraq...they have a force in Bosnia, and in Darfor, as well.

Do not knock the oldest ally the United States has...and one of the most supportive. There are very few staunch supporters of the United States left. Most have been alienated by the aggressions of the States.

"The Netherlands is among the world's leading aid donors, giving about 1% of its gross national product in development assistance. The country consistently contributes large amounts of aid through multilateral channels, especially the UN Development Program, the international financial institutions, and EU programs. A large portion of Dutch aid funds also are channeled through private ("co-financing") organizations that have almost total autonomy in choice of projects.

In 1998, Dutch development assistance--as defined by the OECD--was about $3 billion. The policy priorities of Dutch aid for 1998 are basic social facilities, reproductive health care, the environment, and aid to least developed countries. Dutch aid also is targeted on emergency aid, programs for the private sector, and international education."

This is not a productive area for this blog, but I cannot let attacks on Dirk's assertions go unsupported...he is absolutely correct.

[Caro]

If there was a confession, this case woud be over by now. They would have found the body and the kalpoo brothers would not have been released. Even if he did confess and withdrew his confession later, it would not make any difference. the confession will be treated as evidence against them.

This is just a rumor made up by reporters to keep the media focussed. We'll have to wait...And I cannot understand that nothing has been found in the search for Natalee. These kids, even if the father should be involved, cannot be so intelligent that they are able to commit the perfect crime and to dispose of all the evidence. People make mistakes, especially when they are nervous...

[mona]

Sheesh! No one got any dirt on the real killer yet ....Daddy VDS? I bet Greta knows......

[Reader]

Chuck:

You're really a sad piece of work? Yeah, I'm sure Kennedy and Kerry were involved! Quick, somebody get Scully and Mulder; the liberals conspired with the aliens and Natalee Holloway is being held in Area 51.

Is there a "You're crazy" team? Because I think they'd make you Captain.

[gab]

ummmmmmmmm.. that was only one of his confession, remember Joren has depending on reports either 7, 13, or 14 more that can and should be used!

Anyway, based on this confession here is what may have happened-
Kalpoe dropped jvds and NH off at the beach for a walk and he told them to come back in 30 minutes, as jvds knew he needed a ride home, they returned only to find out jvds was panicked and acting crazy and told them "something bad happened"
jvds did bury her boy (and maybe the brothers helped/maybe not) but the brothers took jvds home and told him he had to tell his pop what had happened,

the 3 told dad, so dad said get the phone out and text Deepak so that you have an alibi, even though Deepak was right there- hurry go get on the computers, etc. you need alibis-

Then pop knew that where jvds buried the body was not a smart idea, hopped into the white SUV (who onwns this one I dont remember but if Kalpoes then pvds hoped someone would see this vehicle and if not then took a chance) either on his own or with someone's help moved the body and disposed of it thus no body, no case.

So jvds, the brothers, pvds and whomever pop called up favors from to help dispose of the body either removing from the island or other means-

[gab]

Dairio has been a pro-Fox News source of information.

Just like on the reality tv shows form and alliance and then back stab you!

[gab]

or the confession may be another one of those tatics becasue jvds told some many different verstions they pieced them all together came up with "the confession" and now is telling jvds, yes you did confess to us- here it is published in the Dairo- and we all suspect they all are one tight knit group but Aruba cannot afford to have it's reputation ruined so they all turned on the vds family to rid the island of this case and family-

[Steel Turman]

Sheesh ... I cannot believe you folks don't realize that Chuck is doin' his ole Amurika parody. And a thin disguise it is. I'll bet Dan a slice and beer that Chuck habitates the D.U.

...wanna take that bet Dan?

[Dutch]

@lago girl

The Netherlands now has close to 16 million inhabitants!

didn't know we where the first ones to officialy acknowledge what is now America! So you might say the Americans own the Netherlands their existence ;)

[tideroller]

Lago Girl - While I appreciate all the backfround information and insight that you provide about Arub, I think you are correct. Your post above is out of place and out of line. There is no need for anyone to become nationalistic on this forum. We are not discussing the general merits/ faults of Holland. We do have to point out failings in the Dutch system in relation to this case. That is pertinent, Dutch history is not. Only what is relevant to the case. Dutch contribution to the UN is not relevant. Dutch law, corruption in the LE, the Dutch hand in the white slavery trade and drug world, and production of ecstasy are relevant, etc. To bring up extraneous, irrelevant topics is trolling. BTW Chuck is obviously a nutcase and a troll and needs to be ignored.

[don't have one]

Diario is just selling newspapers! He made big bucks yesterday. Jossie is a cool business man - he knows how to play the game. You know the citizens in Aruba must be hungry for information about Natalee's disappearance and this sells newspapers.

[tideroller]

Dutch - Again, nationalism has no place on this forum. The Dutch need to just bite their tongues on this one and realize that many negative points are going to be brought out about the Dutch system, because it is those very negative aspects that are slowing down this investigation. We are all aware that Holland has many wonderful attributes. The Dutch contribution to this case, however, is all that is relevant. A comparison of Dutch crime to American crime, etc. is totally irrelevant for example. BTW, the whole world has recognized the US, so I don't think America's whole existence depended on Holland being the first (if it was Holland). However, from my admittedly scanty knowledge of WWII history, I DO believe that the VERY existence of Holland did depend on our liberating your country. So grow up and keep, accept your country's failings. Work on correcting them and keep nationalism out of this forum!

[Bri]

And NOW we know why their crime rate is so low. No one is ever successfully prosecuted, therefore, there is "no crime".

[icey]

What's the point here. This "confession" was already leaked on June 11th. This is way OLD news! It was reported on the TV and radio. The rest of the Dario report was published by the released security guard who said that everyone sat around the pool to fix a story, and that the dad was there too. That's why the day was arrested.

Why is this story being rewound again at this late stage of the game????????

And since this info was already out in the media before, releasing it again does not really jeopardize this investigation. Besides, if the police have a signed confession, that confession is still valid. Even if it's one of 15 storys jvds has signed to date.

icey

[Shari]

icey,
the reason they're releasing it is to put pressure on the judges that are coming in today to hear the appeal.

[Cindertaz]

Does anyone know what time the hearing will take place in Aruba?

Thanks!

Cindy

[ss]

do we even know if the "confession" is real ?

[Cindertaz]

What time does the appeal hearing take place today?

Thanks!

[ss]

if the confession is real, the previous judges will have already seen it, if not it won't (shouldn't) matter to the new judges today

[TS]

Cindy, I heard on Fox last night that the hearing starts at 9:30 AM this morning.

[Shari]

The first hearing already started at 9:30. All three hearings are separate.

[websleuth2]

Dan Riehl asks: "Aside from not knowing the veracity of the confession, I have just one question, which perhaps a Dutch legal scholar can address. Under Dutch Law, given that this alleged "confession" is now all over the media, doesn't that all but ensure that it can never be used against Joran Van der Sloot should he ever be charged?"

I believe there is a distinction between the facts disclosed by the prosecutor in the various hearings, and those facts held back by the prosecutor.

In the beginning, before any of the hearings, the prosecutor/police stated that they could not disclose any facts to the media because this would endanger the case. Under their system, there is a concern about "tainting the witnesses" during the police investigation. It's not at all like our system in the States. They can tap phones, admit suspects to psychiatric facilities.

See http://www.justitie.nl/english/Images/court_system_tcm75-28565.pdf at page 20 or so.

This need to keep the witnesses "untainted" is why one of Joran's lawyers was "fired" for 30 days from the case by the "investigating" judge. He was fired because he met with Joran and other witnesses. Witnesses must not be aware of what other witnesses have said.

Once the prosecutor discloses facts at the first hearings, the defense learns of the facts. At that point, it could be defense attorneys leaking to Jossy Mansur.

Even at this point, there may be facts held back by the prosecutor. Those facts would not be known by the defense.

So if the confession by Joran is part of the case presented to the investigating judge by the prosecutor, then I don't think the case will be thrown out just because Jossy (not Greta) published it first in Diario. OTherwise every defense attorney could leak facts and get the case dismissed.