DNA Analysis Done

The Political Teen has video from O'reilly. Apparently it is thought that the DNA analysis may be done; however, results will not be given to the press - only the Aruban authorities. If so, we'll have to see how long that secret lasts.

Comments

[Kap]

Oh please. There were no third parties at a rave or anything like that. Like I stated before, no 17 year old wants to spend his last summer in Aruba before going to college spent in jail. The FBI and the honest ones within in the Aruban LE know Joran is responsible. It's so damn stupid to think he's not talking because he's afraid of some drug people or whatever! He'd be trying to save his own arse! There has been no talk of an accidental death or any other kind of story from Joran or the Kalpoe brothers. It's absolutely comical and ridiculous at the same time.

I thought people really did take acid anymore. There are some people here who think they are in Alice in the Wonderland, think there really is an Easter bunny and Santa Claus too!

LOFL!

[Mike 1]

Big Pappy _ And no one saw her at this "party". She's pretty famous now, and nobody saw her? nobody? As for the Kalpoes complicity read my earier post

[Mike 1]

Big Pappy - What makes sense is that the Kalpoes are complicitious in the disappearence of Natalee. They were involved in the drinking / drugging / sex with Natalee Holoway. After they dropped Joran And Natalee at the beach. Natalee overdosed. Joran called the brothers, hey, they are so involved at this point they have little choice but to help Joran......I really don't think there is "someone much more powerful" on the grassy knoll.

[ss]

kap if you know so damn much adn your so smart why haven't you solved the case yet... i find it real hard to believe a 17 yr old killed and disposed of a body without a trace all by himself or with the other kids...

[outraged]

condorsa,

I agree that it's very likely aruba could inherit St. Croixs reputation, especially if the unthinkable unfolds here.

On the other hand, if an accident did occur, I believe JVS would have best served himself (in lieu of his families political clout and ties) to take NH to a local hosp. or inform the auth's.
Worse case, this boy would have been tagged as a young man just "trying to do the right thing". IF, he was responsible for her death, which I don't think he DIRECTLY is, then the need to dispose of the body takes center stage and becomes his logical (if not only) choice.

[ss]

if he did this all alone or with the Kalpoes help, then the LE should have no problem breaking his silence, you cannot tell me he is not protecting someone or something.. it was done to clean for it to be a few drunk kids... you guys are giving Joran, Deepak & Satish way too much credit.. they aren't this smart....

[Mike 1]

SS - I don't think Natalee's death was planned. But I do believe it was the result of the commission of a felony (drugging someone to have sex with them, which i think is called rape). This would explain why they didn't seek assistance for this "accidental" death

[Kap]

Can you say "Daddy, I need help?"

I find it harder to believe a 17 year old who claims he is innocent would change his story multiple MULTIPLE times if he were truly innocent?

As I said before the FBI, some Aruban LE, Joran, Paulus and the Kalpoe brothers all know who did what. It's just a matter of time for it to come out and then when it's shown that I and many others here were right, I'll bend over and then you can kiss my ___!

[Mike 1]

SS - if they were smart, they wouldn't have changed their story several times. I do believe they were all involved with disposing of the body. But at that point what are their options?

[Big Pappy]

Mike, I mentioned this yesterday. Aruba and other islands like it operate 24/7, whether it be tourists, people working in the tourist industry, or locals, there is activity pretty much all the time.

So it is unlikely that someone did not see Joran, Satish, Deepak, Paulus, DJ, Natalee, cars being washed, people on beach, talking, laughing, at lighthouse etc. between the hours of 1-5, almost impossible I would think.

That's why I think there is more of a story to be told by someone who saw something, and possibly by more of the MB teens.

Someone HAD to have seen or heard something.

I still think it's larger than the Kalpoes and Joran though, that is just me. :)

[ss]

how do you know he changed his story .. cause Greta told you ? All hale you ! ! Kap is right, everyone else is wrong.. Only Kap knows the truth..... Yeah Kap and i guess they are moving the body all over the island hidding it from all these search groups right... thats why noone can find it..i bet you know where it is.. ohh and then why did they let the Kalpoe brothers go.. guess all four four of the judges are pals with PVDS (the one who couldn't pass his exams to be a judge) ....and no i won't kiss your anything and i don't think anyone else will either... although thats not really a concern because your wrong...

[Mike 1]

Big Pappy - you mean there's nowhere to have privacy / sex on the whole island? It seems there are a number of secluded "lover's lanes" on the island. They WERE seen driving away with her by the way. As far as anyone else being involved, I don't think so, except for VDS who sought to advise the boyz afterwards.

[condorsa]

Actually ss we know he changed his story because the Aruban govt actually said so. They said that was the grounds for extending his incarceration at his last hearing, try to pay attention please...

[Big Pappy]

Mike, you heard my view, I'm not here to argue, your opinion is yours, mine is mine. Nuff said.

[ss]

condorsa.. they did say he changed his story...they did not say he changed it 14 times... and i do pay attention so you are welcome..

[race juda cata]

I have made a few posts here and there, and I have been following this matter since RWV and Scared Monkeys have been featuring it. Needless to say, between this and Amy Bradley, I am thoroughly confused and don't know what to think any more. However, based on my study/work with the law, I have often found that the simplest explaination is the best (eg: joran and friends getting lucky covering up an accident that they may have endused via providing alcohol/drugs). But I cannot help but think that there is something more and this streaches much further...(ie: a cover up for drug dealers/powerful people).

[Mike 1]

I guess we'll find out who's right. lol

[condorsa]

I guess we'll find out who's right. lol
-------------------------------------

Unfortunately, I doubt it...

[ss]

condorsa i am not claiming to be right.. just trying to post my humble opinion and listen to others... i am sure my thougths are way off base and could not think of something as awful as the people who did this...

[TJ]

@ Kap,
arlier disappearance of Natalee in Costa Rica

From Scared Monkeys forum:
alabama journalist Says:

June 10th, 2005 at 2:31 pm
she was drinking heavily from all the witness reports as well as what the AP is publishing. She met the guy two days before at a casino and that is why her friends did nothing when she left the bar with him. I have also confirmed that the Costa Rica story is 100 percent true. Her parents filed a missing persons report in CR. Natalee showed up 4 days later with little explanation as to where she had been.

alabama journalist Says:

June 10th, 2005 at 2:53 pm
No article, the Aruban press obviouosly has the same info I do as they asked the mother about it at a presser. I have a source at the FBI that confirmed the missing persons report filed in Costa Rica a few years ago. He is asking to remain anonymous, as leaking the info is illegal. I have another source in the California FBI missing persons unit that has backed up his story as well.

[condorsa]

Wow, ironclad proof there chief...

[FloridaPatty]

Hopeful Canadian to answer your question who was I directing my response to after reading this thread?

There were several individuals who posted their opinions, some did so in their native language (as if we don't have access to online translation)
http://ets.freetranslation.com/

*which does make me wonder why they would come to a site that is predominantly English, and English being the universal language of business, and speak one on one rather than posting via email privately to eachother* (anyone's guess)

(((>>andya othersay ancay ayplay amesgay ikelay isay ootay! Onay ysterymay herethay.<<))))

One particular post in native language stated that all Arubans know that each month thousands of younger Americans "come to the island for sex, drugs and drink."
---------------------------------------------
Arubanen weten het: maandelijks komen duizenden Amerikaanse jongeren naar het eiland voor seks, drugs en drank
--------------------------------------------

They further went on about how liberal their laws are in contrast to the states siting the U.S. arrests a person for one marijuana cigarette.
The zenith of this person's wisdom (tongue in cheek) was a report they heard from the owner of a club that Natalee was seen hanging out at a popular beach, she was loose, and how can anyone think a young 18 year old girl, who is being portrayed as an innocent, how could anyone come to such an island and NOT indulge.
(does this mean anything that happened to her was all her fault?)

**if you're going to post on here in your native language, regardless, it becomes open to debate by the other members**

It makes more sense that a small government would wish to downplay a missing tourist when they depend so strongly on tourism for their economy. From my seat here, this country's investigative techniques seem amazingly archaic.

It makes more sense that the people who live there, while sympathetic to the family, would not wish to see friends arrested nor anything that would reflect poorly upon their island and possibly impact its economy. This is a very small island and while tourists come and go, the locals live there.

Daddy I need help (exactly!) And I'm certain daddy Paul or some other friends new exactly what to do.

[kristyn]

If Natalee was on the beach with these 3 guys and overdosed on drugs, and they knew she was sick and near death, why didn't they just drop her off at a hospital? They could have even left her off in the hospital parking lot or at the front door if they didn't want to be connected to the drugs or whatnot. Or, they could have lied and said they found this girl that way and knew she needed help. Later on, if Natalee told on them for giving her the drugs, they could have lied and said she was too drunk/drugged up to even say that. In other words, she was too messed up to know how she got the alcohol and drugs. If she did overdose and they got rid of her because they were scared, they had to know that this would turn out to be huge - obviously they knew she was from the US, so they had to know that Americans would get involved. This was no accident. She was drunk, maybe on drugs, and willingly went with them. At some point she probably got her common sense back and realized where she was and what she was doing was wrong, and wanted to leave. Joran and the 2 brothers wanted to take advantage of her first, so they probably raped her over and over, and when she threatened to tell on them, killed her somehow and dumped her in the part of the ocean where sharks are known to feed (I forget what it's called, it starts with a B). Maybe they threw her off a cliff alive. If she was the least bit intoxicated she would probably drown anyway.. and if by chance her body was found, the cause of death would show up as drowning. Joran's mom and dad, Joran, and the 2 brothers absolutely know what happened to Natalee that night, and I believe the Aruban government knows as well. Why they are trying to keep everything so secret, I have no idea. Natalee was from the US, don't we have a right to know what's going on with the investigation? Also, FOX news reported that an American woman tourist found what appeared to be a joint bone from a human thigh on a beach in between a bunch of rocks about 2 weeks ago. The bone appeared to have some white flesh on it and it smelled so bad that she had to put it in the trunk of her car while driving it to the police station. A second bone was also found but there was no word on that at this time.. the Aruban police department promised the woman that found the first bone that they would keep in touch with her and let her know the outcome of the testing of the bone, but she hasn't heard anything. Also, why don't they test the 3 condoms that were found for DNA? Isn't that a coincidence.. there being 3 condoms and 3 guys.. even if the guys say that the sex was consensual, we all know it wasn't.. I mean.. I'm a 19 year old girl, have any of you seen the Kalpoe brothers? I'm sorry but no amount of alcohol would remotely make me want to touch either of them. Joran isn't bad looking, but still, to Natalee he was virtually a stranger. I don't know, I don't think her body will ever be found. Maybe remnants will wash up on the beach here and there, but her family will never be able to bury her in one piece. And those Aruban fuckers are to blame and they should be thrown to the sharks as well. My thoughts and prayers are still with Natalee and her family.

[justguessing]

Roy,

Thanks for your supportive words. I almost 'called it a day' on this website, but as you can see I am hooked.

Big Pappy, your posts make alot of sense to me.

I could actually go either way-- I don't know what to think. Either there's more involved, be it kidnapping, or drug people/blackmailing or sex trading, or she was raped by Joran/possibly both K's. I tend to think the K's are more involved because BHT is so convinced. She obviously has more info than we do, (rightly so).

Even if it were J alone, I personally have trouble 'buying' an overdose death
accident covered up by getting rid of her body. At the VERY least I think that she was slipped the drug, or that if she intentionally took the drug that she was murdered. I just don't buy someone covering up an accidental death that they had no real responsibility for. Call me crazy.

Personally I think some in LE were bought off or blackmailed, or favors were called in. I think the investigaton was intentionally stymied. That being said, I DO NOT blame the Aruban people, and don't think THEY should be punished for it. Corrupt people live all over the planet.

Corruption knows no race, sex, creed, color, religion or geographic location- NOR DOES GOODNESS.

I'm not a betting person, but if I were, I would go with Big Pappy at the moment.

[LornaD]

Crier Live on now, an NE reporter, claiming "excellent sources", talking about the case.

Says Joran is covering for drug dealers who have threatened his family. That he called a dealer in a panic that night and that dealer helped him dispose of the body.

Also that computer timing was tampered with to obscure the true time some messages were sent and police are contacting all of Joran's friends.

Hmmmm. Well, it's the Enquirer.

TJ Ward, investigator hired by Natalee's family speaking about voice analysis. Police would not allow it to be used on the boys or father, but they analyzed recorded media soundbites. TJ says the voice analysis shows Pa VDSloot has "some involvement" in this case, in his opinion and shows "some inconsistencies".

[hopefulcanadian]

First off; I think Joran had something to do with this; I won't say he's guilty of murder; because "innocent until proven guilty" etc etc... but obviously he's in custody for a reason.

But my question to all of you that think there's a cover-up going on....;

Why would the Aruban authorities (and it WAS them; the prosecution office) TELL us that he's changed his story so many times??? They didn't have to say that at all.... but they freely stated that.... so why would they be trying to cover up for him; and yet tell us that at the same time.

Second; the PROSECUTOR told the media that she overheard Paul VDS saying; "no body, no case"; I don't know the context of the conversation but obviously; that looks bad for him; so WHY would they tell the media that if they're trying to cover for him???

So; to all of you that KEEP INSISTING (like KRISTYN; "those Aruban f---ers are to blame and should be thrown to the sharks as well.." that the Aruban law enforcement is trying to cover for these DUTCH PEOPLE; (remember NONE of the Kalpoe's, Joran or Paul VDS are actually ARUBAN) you're all out of touch, and obviously have all bought into the "conspiracy theories" that the media loves to throw around to make a story more marketable..

STOP Aruba bashing; its starting to sound really ignorant......

[FloridaPatty]

Fox News broadcasting an update now at 9:00 EST.

[FloridaPatty]

HopefulCanadian you said:
that the Aruban law enforcement is trying to cover for these DUTCH PEOPLE; (remember NONE of the Kalpoe's, Joran or Paul VDS are actually ARUBAN) you're all out of touch..

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "none...are actually Aruban" they do live in Aruba, yes? I think many are going by the premise that because they reside in Aruba they are from this country, their homes are their, thus they are from Aruba. Maybe in your country "Aruban" is identified as a race whereas American can be from many races.

People have a right to express their feelings, some are stronger than others:

to all of you that KEEP INSISTING (like KRISTYN; "those Aruban f---ers are to blame and should be thrown to the sharks

and others - why does everyone say the raped her over and over again
................................................

but people do have a right to their opinions but they may not necessarily reflect everyone's opinion.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I don't think there is a conspiracy, I do think there is what we call here in Florida "Good old boy mentality" that is, boys will be boys...girls will be girls and are good for one thing and if they happen to be out wearing short skirts and dancing suggestively and drunk, using drugs they are ASKING FOR IT. It's a backwards and socially ignorant way to think but ....it happens. I think 3 boys got in the middle of a situation. I think one panicked. I think the others followed along. Something makes me think one brother is protecting the other brother and is less involved then the other.

FOX reporting the family of Natalee is "searching for answers" awaiting to hear the results.

My instincts tell me they will be no closer from the hair, it is probably human but I don't think it is linked to Natalee. I could be wrong but don't feel so.

[!]

Hope some of the i's can be dotted now.
But who knows. This case has taken so many twist and turns.
Can only hope for the best. !

[angelsamongus]

Can anyone tell me why they would release the Kalpoe brothers and THEN ask for a DNA analysis? If the brothers were free to go because there wasn't "enough evidence", why would they want them to going through DNA testing? There court system is sending so many mixed messages to us it's unreal. This whole situation has definitely swayed my interest in ever going to Aruba for a vacation.

[shonane]

The the sleeze balls covered themselves very good, or maybe someone coached them very good.
All three said they had consentual sex with Natalee, okay, now we can place the dna, but again consentual......................

Posted by: Justice4All ===============================================
I have never heard this. My understanding is that Joran and Natalee hooked up, that Joran said he and Natalee later had consensual sex, and the K brothers said they were just giving Joran an ride and dropped them off at the beach. I had impression K brothers were long gone before this happened between Joran and Natalee.

[shonane]

Anyway, sure, stay away from opinions, defend the facts, let's start with what the reason would be for the markedly different treatment of the black suspects as opposed to the VDS boy, and like I said, a true Aruban should be way more offended at that than they should of someone who knows how many thousands of miles away making a slighlty disparaging comment about thier island on an intraweb blog...

Posted by: condorsa
============================================

There was information posted (who knows if it is true as half of what people post is made up speculation) but here is > One of security guards is unemployed and has shady past. At least one of them had already been questioned about some of he MB group's missing cameras at the Holiday Inn. I did see this - a different vacationer (female) recognized one the guys arrested and said he had seemed to be coming on to her - she was not interested - but there were no other inappropriate things he did. I think the PI were already interested in these two guards, or at least one of them, as suspect on some other things and saw this as a reason to pick them up. Neither of the guards worked for the Holiday Inn and the three boys did not name these two individuals, rather only mentioned one guard at the Holiday Inn (who definitely would not have been these two guys.)

[shonane]

Let's see, Jug presented more evidence of a coverup or corruption within the Aruban police force last nigth when he revealed it took them 30 days to get a statement from him about the very first encounter they had with PVDS and Joran (the night they arrived on the island).

Posted by: Kap
===============================================

I don't know why they even needed a statement from Jug about this. Two of Aruba's police officers were there with him and they were the ones who did the interviews with JVS and PVS. Apparently much of the conversation was in Dutch. The police were there the whole time. All Jug could add,if they took a statement from him about this, were his opinions or biased observations, which they already knew. So why would the police even need a statement from Jug about this when they were there?

[FloridaPatty]

Can anyone tell me why they would release the Kalpoe brothers and THEN ask for a DNA analysis?

Angel I would venture a guess that it came on the heels of finding that tape. Because the three were suspect, they had probable cause with some physical evidence to obtain DNA. (again I don't know the laws of Aruba and how they work on DNA but this is a guess)

Shonane said:
I have never heard this. My understanding is that Joran and Natalee hooked up, that Joran said he and Natalee later had consensual sex, and the K brothers said they were just giving Joran an ride and dropped them off at the beach. I had impression K brothers were long gone before this happened between Joran and Natalee.
................................................

Shonane I heard the same thing from the mother on her interview with Greta. Her son told her they were in the backseat kissing and he was not liking what was going on in the backseat.

( I have read that this mother has subsequently lost her job. A sad effect of this incident as she seems simply another victim of a tragic situation )

Cordosa said:
Anyway, sure, stay away from opinions, defend the facts, let's start with what the reason would be for the markedly different treatment of the black suspects as opposed to the VDS boy
...........................................

Who is still in jail? Who is now free?
Preferred treatment? I think not.
...........................................

Shonane I haven't seen anything about Jug talking about a coverup. I did see Greta's interview last night with the mother and she was praising Natalees biological father for his activities.

>FOX reported the same park ranger discovered another piece of duct tape with something red on it. This has been sent for lab identification.<

(same guy finds the same type of duct tape in the same general location? hmmmmmmm )

[Kat_Gram]

I think that the whole family has a lot of class. Jug, Beth, Dave, his wife. If I were in their position, I would not have been so nice as they have been in the face of what is going on in Aruba with the investigation and the VDS's.
I would have lost it so bad they would have deported me.

[Gene]

Chanced upon this conversation... lot of mistaken stuff going on.

Arubans are people who live in Aruba, a former Dutch colony, now a Dutc protectorate. Like much of the Caribbean, Aruba was uninhabited when discovered by Europeans. Its population is mostly a mix of former African slaves, Asian contract workers, Dutch emigrants, and expatriate Dutch.

Aruban law is Dutch and European Union law, with some minor differences. Under Dutch and EU law, privacy rules prohibit making personal information available to third parties, regardless of whether that person is a suspect or arrested. It is in even illegal to publish the name of an arrested suspect (suspect's names have been published in the United States and elsewhere as local law permits). Press conferences or other information sharing by District Attorneys or Police Chiefs or any other governmental employee about a prosecution or an investigation are against Dutch law, and a prosecutable offense. This information can only be made public at the same time as the prosecutor puts it before the judge(s) (juries do not exist in the Dutch legal system, there is normally a panel of judges) in an open court session.

A suspect cannot be detained unless the Crown prosecutor provides good evidence to the judge that the suspect is likely to have committed the crime. Evidence can only be presented to the court by the prosecutor, law enforcement is enjoined by law from presenting evidence to a court, as law enforcement, by virtue of its profession, can be biased against the accused. Evidence cannot be circumstantial, under Dutch and European law a suspect cannot be convicted solely on circumstantial evidence, with very rare exceptions, this is enshrined in most European constitutions.

Much of the above is based on French law, which forms the basis for many European legal systems. English law (obviously) prevails in England, and to some extent in Belgium, but otherwise in most former colonies, as French law prevails in most former Spanish, Portuguese and Dutch colonies. Some French law is in American legal systems, predominantly in community property states, notably in Louisiana.

There are no "black" suspects, the two Surinamese boys are mixed race, Surinam too is a former Dutch colony, they may well be Dutch nationals. Suspect Joran is expatriate Dutch. There are few white or black indigenous Arubans, the races have intermixed on this small island for some 400 years, and everybody is a shade of off-white. There is little or no racism in the Netherlands Antilles, although there is animosity between Dutch expatriate and local civil servants - Arubans have their own government and handle their own civil affairs, but national defense and justice are handled by the Dutch, under treaty. There is a significant Dutch police and military (naval and Marines) presence in the Netherlands Antilles, specifically for drug interdiction, in cooperation with the United States DEA, Navy and Coast Guard, as the Antilles are in the drug trafficking pipeline between South America and Europe and the United States.

Until a suspect is charged, therefore, much of what you read and hear will be speculation. There is no freedom of information act with regard to suspects, and the results of the investigation will never be made public if nobody is formally charged. That can only happen if incontrovertible evidence is presented to the court, again, no evidence is being concealed, it is a prosecutable offense to make it public.

I hope this helps in your discussion. I am a Dutch national, a U.S. resident for some 20 years, I live in New York and work for a security agency in Washington, D.C.