DNA Analysis Done

The Political Teen has video from O'reilly. Apparently it is thought that the DNA analysis may be done; however, results will not be given to the press - only the Aruban authorities. If so, we'll have to see how long that secret lasts.

Comments

[Rachel]

Heard about fiber on this site. She was wearing denim and a green and white top. What were the boys wearing I wonder?

[ss]

I have read that Joran has confessed and that he has not... If you mention the confession people get all bent out of shape, does anyone know for sure if their has been a confession or not....

[hopefulcanadian]

I suppose all these are questions that could swirl around for a while till we really know what they have or don't have in terms of evidence...

You know, I think its tough in "high profile" cases such as this for the people watching... see, the problem is, we see her family on television so much, that we feel like we know them; and then we see so many media reports on the suspects etc; that we feel like the REST of the case should be as "open" to us to all learn about... its only natural... we know all the "players" in this situation, and now we want to know all the details... I'm guilty of it too; I want to know exactly what's going on and all the details...

problem is; it is a criminal case, and we forget that in any ongoing investigation, the prosecution, in order to make sure the job gets done properly, has to keep this information private. I know with this case; because its happening in a different country; we here in North America can be tempted to blame the authorities of a "foreign country" for not letting us in on all they have; but truthfully; we wouldn't get any private details here at home either....

we all get frustrated because we hear Beth and Jug on TV all the time saying they're really frustrated... but guys, they're her parents... they don't have a balanced outlook on this; they can't possibly, if I was in their position; I'm SURE I wouldn't either...

but WE all have to approach this calmly, and rationally, and know the difference between things said with emotion, and the facts... we also have to keep in mind; that the Aruban Law enforcement is not used to all this. They so RARELY have to investigate murder cases, I just think they have been overwhelmed by all the press; and truthfully, the same thing could happen in ANY rural town in the United States or Canada... we just have to be patient....

but all the "conspiracy theories", and "hidden agendas" by Aruban police, or "cover-up" theories are just silly; the investigation hasn't been perfect; that is for sure; but not because of anything they did PURPOSEFULLY... they just were not accustomed to this kind of case... and you know hind-sight is 20/20 and we can all be monday morning quarterbacks and say who or what SHOULD have been done; but truthfully, many cases go unsolved at home too... (look at what happened with poor Tim Miller's daughter) we just have to hope and pray her family gets some closure... one way or the other...

[Rachel]

Not confirmed, but I do believe he has confessed to some degree. Probably not the whole truth, but as much as you can hope for from a spoiled brat like that.

[outraged]

Shari, if you're here, you are correct. I said it earlier, Ray Charles could see what he had in his hand. Its a piece of her blouse. No doubt.

What I want to know,is why no one (and I mean no one) is talking about it. They show it. Freeze it. You can't miss it, but all they elaborate on is the duct tape and hair strands.

Am I missing something people?

[ss]

outraged.. i thought the fabric was red and she was wearing green, white and denim... maybe the fabric was other "trash" thepark ranger picked up... Just guessing..

[Rachel]

I Second That!

I must say some theories here have been interesting to say the least, but interesting is all the weight thay have right now. We should learn from all that is being said here, but when it comes to the truth it is not really ours to know.

[sol rosenberg]

Sol is American and will beat his chest about America at every opportunity. Love it or leave it, baby!

I am critical of the Aruban Govt. because they can't figure out what happened. How difficult can this be? The answer...it's not. This is bigger than (3) lying teenagers. It's about a corrupt govt.

Perception is reality.

[Rachel]

Really Sol as a proud American also I say you should educate yourself on the differences in governments around the World. They have a DIFFERENT system yes, but we do not know yet if they are really that inept. Silence is golden as they say and it may really work for them not to diclose so much info.

[hopefulcanadian]

Sol,

Why does being a proud American have to mean "Us vs. Them" all the time.... you can still be a proud American, and not NEED to criticize another country....

You honestly don't think everytime there is an unsolved case at home it was because of a "cover-up" do you???? Sometimes, its just unfortunate circumstances....

and P.S.; just for anyone out there who may accuse me of having "vested interest" in Aruba (because I have said not to blame Aruba on this site before... and I got insults and insinuations that I must own property there); LOL; I assure you I do not... I don't own property ANYWHERE...

I'm just trying to be fair and balanced about the whole case...

[Rachel]

Thank God someone is.

[hopefulcanadian]

Lol, thanks Rachel; but I think you have been as well; as are many people on this site.... its always the way; there are always going to be some people that just feel better about themselves; or feel like they "belong" when they get a cause to go after and criticize...

its never productive; and I don't think these people's sentiments are much help to Natalee's family either....

I actually was afraid for Beth at first when I saw all the "anti-Aruba" and "Aruba-bashing" that used to go on; and I thought; all those Arubans that were helping out the search teams; and giving them free meals, or helping Beth out were going to feel betrayed... well, lets hope that they don't mistake comments made by SOME as the sentiment from all Americans/Canadians....

I really just think this will still be solved one day, I think now everyone involved wants to see this wrapped up... I think if it gets done well... and properly, everyone will be more satisfied....

[condorsa]

Please, all the "It's not really Arubans" or "You can't judge xxx" people can suck a fart out of my butthole. Yes, the perpetrators may not be rubes, but the monkeys covering for them certainly are. And don't say there's no covering going on, how else do you explain the fact that when it was 2 black security guards suspected (real Arubans, which should make a true Aruban all the more pissed at the situation) it was beat the door down, drag em out in thier undies and get the case solved, yet when it turns around and is pointed at someone, who *happens* to be the son of someone who is well connected to the gov and LE, suddenly there are all these *rules* that need to be followed, which coincidentally seem to do nothing but hamper the investigation.

Bottom line, your government is corrupt, and the fact that you stand by and instead of addressing the corruption, would rather quibble over semantics and who is what nationality or what may or may not happen in countries other than your own means that you are complicit as well. Spare us your indignation, save it for where it belongs, go stand outside your townhall with that indignation, outside the polis station with your indignation, if anyone is making your island look bad it's them, and unless you actually do something about it, you have no right to complain when people call it like they see it.

Also, did anyone see on Greta last night, they had the press guy from Aruba, and it was ridiculous, he was basically guaranteeing that after Straten is gone that there will be new developments in the case. He virtually guaranteed that by the weekend this case will have taken a decidedly different turn.... How can he make such a guarantee? Especially from an entity that hasn't been willing to commit themselves to anything specific. The man said repeatedly "Just wait until this weekend" "I am certain that by this weekend we will have new developments" and so on. Please defend the actions of your government rubes, and if you can't then use your energy to change it instead of trying to change the opinion of people on a message board who can plainly see which way is up in this case...

[new poster]

Condorsa
Sorry, but the fellow interviewed last night by
Greta was from Aruba Today a journalist, giving his opinion about this weekend he felt there might be some change because a new individual took over the case...he said every thinks differently....so it was not a government official...it was the press!!!!!!

[hopefulcanadian]

I think Condorsa's comments are a perfect example of the "too little facts; too much speculation" theme that's now going on with this case.

Condorsa; Paul VDS is NOT well connected in that country; that's a convenient line that's used by alot of media; to help make the story sound more "juicy"; trust me; the media is after finding RATINGS not after finding Natalee....

Paul VDS never even HAD a job with Aruban LE; he was studying to try to BE a judge; but failed his exams... and was never hired. He is not some "rich man", they have pretty modest cars if you've noticed; all that kind of spin was purely made up for "sensationalism".

And your quotes from "that press guy from Aruba" is a perfect example of people making OPINION into FACT..... why does this man's personal opinion make any difference to how you see this case? Truth is; none of us know what is happening with the investigation, because we're not SUPPOSED to know... that's why criminal investigations are kept private.

I'm not trying to change anybody else's view; I'm only stating mine, which I have the right to do... just as you did... but it IS my opinion, that if we step back, and try to separate emotion from fact; we'll all have a much better handle on this case....

[condorsa]

Whatever guys, yes it is my opinion that the staetments made by the press guy look bad, yes my opinion. What is not opinion is that the case was handled very differently when it was the 2 black security guards accused and not the son of a connected expat. If you doubt the connectedness I don't know what to tell you as you are making a concerted effort to remain ignorant. Regardless of his status as a judge or not PVDS has been on that island long enough to have seen how things work, it is this knowledge alone and the fact that he may spill the beans if he's not satisfied with the effort to protect his son that would merit a cover up. By ALL accounts he is close friends with VDStraaten, who should have recused himself from the case immediately just so there would be *no hint* of impropriety at thier relationship. Check out the capacity of the man King that he is living with as we speak, please if you believe that this guy is not connected I've got a bridge in the Okeefenokee to sell you.

Anyway, sure, stay away from opinions, defend the facts, let's start with what the reason would be for the markedly different treatment of the black suspects as opposed to the VDS boy, and like I said, a true Aruban should be way more offended at that than they should of someone who knows how many thousands of miles away making a slighlty disparaging comment about thier island on an intraweb blog...

[hopefulcanadian]

Condorsa; you've got me curious, explain to me please how the "Carribean-Arubans" were treated differently than Joran; they were in jail; like Joran is now, they were questioned because of the slightest HINT of suspicion allows that in Aruba (unlike the US) and they were let go....

how were they treated differently????

And how do you know what a true Aruban would not be upset by what you've said??? Would you even have listened to what an Aruban HAD to say about this case? Ask yourself that....

Mickey John the one security guard that WAS arrested did not complain of any mis-treatment; in fact; his quote when he came out was; "They treated me good" and "Do nothing, pay nothing"

so.... I'm still really curious as to what facts you have that show he was treated differently than the other suspects???

[DennisAOK]

HopefulCanadian & Rachel,

I am not convinced, at least not yet, that this case has not been cracked because of corruption or cover up. However, you are far too kind and forgiving toward this investigation. (I do not blame the Aruban people.) The police simply waited far too long to get serious about this matter, and, had it not been for the media and, most importantly, the Twitty and Holloway families, the matter would have been filed in the "missing persons" drawer and forgotten about. The long delay in detaining the prime suspects stands out among many acts of ineptitude. I would think an island so heavily dependent on tourism would be extremely meticulous about quickly pursuing any possible crimes against visitors. Also, the argument that there are unsolved missing persons cases in North America is not pursuasive, because in such cases there is usaully little to go on, unlike here, where the last people to be with Natalee were quickly identified. (Actually, most of these cases involve fueding parents kidnapping the child.) At this point, I think the Arubans and Dutch are doing all that they can (although a lot of people taking vacations now conveys the cavalier attitude that has been evident from the beginning). In any event, if Joran walks in September and the Twittys and Holloways go home, the Dutch should begin a full scale investigation of their procedures so this kind of disaster never strikes their island again.

[hopefulcanadian]

I agree Dennis, no doubt that the Aruban Law Enforcement will indeed because of the Holloway-Twitty families be more diligent now about missing persons...

You may very well be right about the Law Enforcement not doing enough in the initial stages of this case; it may have been due to under-experience, or you are right, it may even been due to hesitation; the officials may have wrongly thought Natalee would probably show up on her own later... (as did the police that handled Tim Miller's daughter's case in Texas; the man that heads the Texas search team).

My comments were more to state that I believe that there is no intentional cover-up here... that Paul VDS is not some "multi-millionaire" or some important law official; as I said before; he and his wife have a decent standard of living (she is a teacher; and he never passed his exams to become a judge; so was in the process of obtaining other work).....

I don't doubt however, that the officials are NOW trying their best to come up with answers to this case... yes, the investigation did not go well at the beginning; and I think they will learn from it... but I disagree with all the "conspiracy theories" and I don't think the whole "boycott Aruba" sentiment is valid... and I realize you yourself have said you don't blame the Aruban people; that's a good thing...

but people who do... and suggest things like boycotts would only hurt the Aruban people... and that would'nt be fair..

[hopefulcanadian]

it was nice talking to you all though... my experience on this blog this time was better than the last time I was on..... and I truly do value all your comments and opinions...

it helps to see what other people think...
bye

[confused in CO]

[All three said they had consentual sex with Natalee]

Is this fact? I've been following pretty closely and never remember hearing this before.
Where did you get this?

[sol rosenberg]

Sol could care less about the differences between govt's or laws. The objective is to solve the crime. This is not personal.

[sol rosenberg]

Ask BHT if she really cares about anything fair and balanced. She just wants her daughter back.

[TJ]

It looks like there is a pattern between the disappareance of NH in Costa Rica for 3/4 days (bc of a nice guy; FBI in operation, 2003/2004?) and her behaviour on Aruba... She is/was shure very irrational in matters of love it seems.

[FloridaPatty]

My first post to this forum/site.

I've spent two days back reading this thread.

To clarify, I don't think many typical Americans think that a group of high school graduates are going to go to church on Sunday and drink Cola while on vacation. The same follows with Joran and friends who probably, like many kids their age, enjoy being young, having fun and perhaps making sport out of going for the pretty tourists in their country.
It's a HUGE leap though to go from partying to OOPS! >nothing makes it Okay for someone to abuse another human. Nothing makes it Okay to dispose of a body or cover up a death.<<

People who are not guilty have one story to tell and it's the truth. They might be nervous but they don't tell 14 versions of the story.

Joran is still in jail not because people want to blame him because he was the last one seen with her but because he gave the authorities good reason to detain him and after changing his story over and over, more reason to suspect him.

[rabbit]

confused in CO,

that was something reported early on when there many 'confessions' and conflicting stories, fox and cnn both reported uncomfirmed facts, including the guy from diario who said he was following her and the kidnappers in a car. i never could understand if this bit about all 3 of them admitting to having sex with her was confirmed or a rumor.

[Tsunder]

anybody has any news on foresnic?

Pardon my hangover.. :-\

[hopefulcanadian]

I don't doubt Joran isn't involved for a second.... the authorities have held him because they think the same thing...

I don't think ANYONE here actually thinks Joran is not involved... if the Authorities think so; and enough to keep him held; then why shouldn't we all think that....

I'm curious to know who your comments were directed at FloridaPatty...???

[ss]

does anyone have a list of the "facts" of the case, without making judgements and if so, lets look at what we know to be fact and see what we can come up with..

[TJ]

It remains a fact that Joran boasted the next morning in his class after the disappearance of Natalee having had sex with her. He was surprised she had disappeared and backed down immediately. How explain this?

[condorsa]

my experience on this blog this time was better than the last time I was on
-------------------------------------------

Wonder how many names you've had here /rolleyes

It looks like there is a pattern between the disappareance of NH in Costa Rica for 3/4 days (bc of a nice guy; FBI in operation, 2003/2004?) and her behaviour on Aruba... She is/was shure very irrational in matters of love it seems.
------------------------------------------------

And you're proof of this is where? Don't worry I won't hold my breath, but if you've got some kind of source for this I'd love to see it...

[ss]

i don't know TJ...i know this won't make me very popular but i am still not 100% convinced joran did it.. i am certain he is atleast a slug of a person..

[Kap]

TJ- that an out and out lie about Natalee missing in Costa Rica. That is a rumor that has holes shot right through it. Don't make assine and untrue comments.

Let's see, Jug presented more evidence of a coverup or corruption within the Aruban police force last nigth when he revealed it took them 30 days to get a statement from him about the very first encounter they had with PVDS and Joran (the night they arrived on the island). She's only been missing for 53 days now. So more than half of the time passes before they get around to taking statements about a very important meeting on the first or second night of disappearance?

Jug also stated that he has asked for the report from the two uniformed policemen who were there that night also and has yet to receive it.

Couple that with the fact they let the three key players in the case go for 10 DAYS after they lied about the two black security guards...

Something definitely is fishy here....

[ss]

It looks like there is a pattern between the disappareance of NH in Costa Rica for 3/4 days (bc of a nice guy; FBI in operation, 2003/2004?) and her behaviour on Aruba... She is/was shure very irrational in matters of love it seems.

I think this was a rumor started early on when it was rumored that she may have ranaway

[ss]

kap he may have asked for it and it entitled to it, but as we well know the LE is not giving out anything to anyone...

[Big Pappy]

Condorsa, RE: Van Der Straaten leaving, I think this is all being planned very carefully.

Once Van Der Straaten is gone (Dirtyhands) than the link to much of the corruption will be gone. Shango said he walked with everyone/was involved with everyone.

Joran will be the scapegoat, and they probably already have what they need to make that happen. But Straaten must be gone before they come out with that information. The evidence already collected will be the golden key dangled before everyone including the family. They will accept the evidence, the explanation, and the hope is they will dig no more but accept that Joran is the guilty party.

With private investigators involved, and the families suspiscion, I don't think they'll just leave it at that. They firmly believe the Kalpoes were involved as well. Shango said that the Kalpoes were asked to cover for Joran. Whoever did that asking, must have some powerful connections, huge I would think.

So, Joran goes to trial, Arubans and Americans eat it up like a smorgasbord.

And Aruba's dirty dealings stay a secret and continue.

That is, if the family accepts Joran as solely guilty, which I don't think will happen. I hope it does not, there is more to this. My apologies if you hate the Shango stuff, I think much he posted still applies even at this late date. Just my opinion folks.

[Kap]

TJ- it's not a known FACT that Joran was boasting about it. Those are still unconfirmed rumors.

If they were true, I doubt he was suprised outside of "acting" suprised. What would you expect him to do? Say yeah, I had sex with her then dumped her in a shallow grave?

ss- if Joran didn't have anything to do with it then who did? Are you actually buying he left her on the beach alone? Are you kidding me? Once again, he wouldn't lie if he were innocent. I'm sure as a 17 year old and the summer after graduating he wants to sit in jail for the entire summer. If someone else was involved (like the crazy idea of drug lords, etc) he would have talked by now.

Anyhow, I'm not going to argue with these people who no clue to what is right in front of their faces.

[Big Pappy]

Sorry folks, here are the Shango quotes I wanted to use with my last posting, inserted correctly this time...

Condorsa, RE: Van Der Straaten leaving, I think this is all being planned very carefully.

Once Van Der Straaten is gone (Dirtyhands) than the link to much of the corruption will be gone. Shango said he walked with everyone/was involved with everyone.

**DirtyHand can bring down all houses
**DirtyHand is the key
**His reach is long
**He walks in all circles
**Consort to all, except for the gods

Joran will be the scapegoat, and they probably already have what they need to make that happen. But Straaten must be gone before they come out with that information. The evidence already collected will be the golden key dangled before everyone including the family. They will accept the evidence, the explanation, and the hope is they will dig no more but accept that Joran is the guilty party.

**The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe

With private investigators involved, and the families suspiscion, I don't think they'll just leave it at that. They firmly believe the Kalpoes were involved as well. Shango said that the Kalpoes were asked to cover for Joran. Whoever did that asking, must have some powerful connections, huge I would think.

So, Joran goes to trial, Arubans and Americans eat it up like a smorgasbord.

**Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice.

And Aruba's dirty dealings stay a secret and continue.

**Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed.

That is, if the family accepts Joran as solely guilty, which I don't think will happen. I hope it does not, there is more to this. My apologies if you hate the Shango stuff, I

Joran will be the scapegoat, and they probably already have what they need to make that happen. But Straaten must be gone before they come out with that information. The evidence already collected will be the golden key dangled before everyone including the family. They will accept the evidence, the explanation, and the hope is they will dig no more but accept that Joran is the guilty party.

With private investigators involved, and the families suspiscion, I don't think they'll just leave it at that. They firmly believe the Kalpoes were involved as well. Shango said that the Kalpoes were asked to cover for Joran. Whoever did that asking, must have some powerful connections, huge I would think.

So, Joran goes to trial, Arubans and Americans eat it up like a smorgasbord.

And Aruba's dirty dealings stay a secret and continue.

That is, if the family accepts Joran as solely guilty, which I don't think will happen. I hope it does not, there is more to this. My apologies if you hate the Shango stuff, I

[Big Pappy]

Man I'm a braindead cut and paste freak today, sorry for the jumble, between the two posts I think I got my idea across.

Sorry blog.

[outraged]

TJ

I don't believe JVS had anything DIRECTLY to do w/Natalees disappearance. Maybe, he did.

Based on what the MB teens are now saying, she apparently got into the car willingly. On,her own accord. I believe they went to a party, where third parties entered the picture. Possibly, in over their heads, they left her there. They made up those stories to vindicate themselves from involving these ind's. Who these people are, or were, is anybodys guess.

It comes down to what THESE people did to (or with) her. The media blitz and attention this case got may have had alot to do w/what they did.

[ss]

have any of Shango's other stuff that has been interpreted came to fruition... just wondering.. i am not smart enought to make sense of it so i don't know what it said..

[ss]

sounds good and possible outraged

[Mike 1]

big pappy - In for a penny, in for a pound. The Kalpoes probably were involved with the gang rape of natalee after someone (Joran?) gave hersomething (GHB?). After they left the two on the beach Natalee overdosed. Joran called the Kalpoe brothers, hey they are so already involved, this is what insures their cooperation.

[condorsa]

Pappy I basically agree with you. Once VStraaten is out of the picture, I think the following will happen. The body will be found, or at least enough of it to satisfy the family's desire for a burial. The story will be that she willingly took drugs, and in her intoxication, fell/drowned or some other kind of accident happened, which while not responsible for, made Joran panic and just have to dispose of the body.

Yeah it will reek to high heaven, but unless either a witness or a murder weapon is found, it's probably going to be the best it gets. And contrary to what others think, as long as the HT's can at least bury her, and they know who's responsible, even if justice isn't immediately served I believe karma is a bitch. This will all fade away, the only permanent damage will be to the Holloways and you'd have to be a fool to think that the island of Aruba won't suffer too, any doubters can just read up on the isle of St. Croix...

[ss]

outraged...do you think the VDS's are willing to let Joran take the fall so that he (they) don't rat out these other guys ?

[Big Pappy]

Don't know that much of Shangos stuff has really come to light, much of it focused on the rave/country house/drug dealer theory.

In a nutshell...

Joran took her to a drug dealing type of party/rave or something. He bailed for whatever reason and the dealers or whoever did something to her. VDS knew about the parties, knows those involved, so is getting out of the picture. Joran knows where she was left and who she was left with, and is protecting them. Kalpoes did the driving, so they know as well, all protecting those who did this.

[Big Pappy]

SS, I don't think it's a matter of letting Joran "take the fall", it's more a matter of if they don't they all end up dirt-napping. Why else would the Kalpoes and Joran all keep quiet, protection of someone much more powerful is all that makes sense. Joran could shut up to save his own skin, why the Kalpoes have not completely rolled on Joran though does not make sense, that's what leads me to believe larger powers at work.

[outraged]

ss,

One,unless there's DNA to physically tie him to NH, I don't believe JVS will take the fall. The panel of attorneys on Greats show last night (in review of the facts/evidence) all felt there was a strong possibility he would be released in Sept. The VDS's are banking that scenario unfolds.

In the interim, they're not talking. And, my guess is, won't, unless forced to. And, that goes for all three of the boys.

Opinion,only.

[Roy]

justguessing, very wise words and analysis... 'We' ..'Them'. (4:57 AM)
I am convinced that both 'we' and 'them' feel terrible and wouldn't like anything better than Nathaly reappearing alife and well.
I do agree that probably a big mistake or error of judgement was made by the Aruban authorities in the beginning. remarks concerning that issue I can understand. The rest of the negative comments about Aruba don't do the case nor the Holloways any good.

[condorsa]

Agreed outraged, if the case were tried today, and all the evidence they have is what has already been reported, then yes I would say they'll walk. As far as "taking the fall" though, even if something similar to the scenario I described above were to happen, all he would be guilty of would be the disposal of the body, and obstruction/making false statements to police (if there are even counterparts to these offenses in the Aruban system), none of which, considering his age and lack of criminal record, would even make "the fall" that hard to take, he'd get a slap on the wrist, maybe some probation, and if the judge has half a brain drug/alcohol counseling...