Developments

Update: John Walsh will be on Hannity and Colmes tonight to discuss the Natalee Holloway case.

Investigators continue to drain the pond but news is quiet from Aruba. If you want a solid general round up of where things stand, try here courtesy of CBS.

For a general read web log that covers news, politics and culture and also has a great many commenters forming a community, try Wizbang.

Also, the editor of the Blogger News Network will be on Shaun's show tonight, for info please see below. These are voices of an emergent media, which is more interactive than ever before and allows the reader in, sometimes to play a significant role.

SUBJECT2DISCUSSION is a LIVE webcast and podcast Wednesday July 27 at 6pm Pacific time, 8pm Central time and 9pm Eastern time.  This weeks guests will be Robert Hayes of the Blogger News Network and Aaron Douglas/Tyrol of Scifi Channel's Battlestar Galactica.  To listen to SUBJECT2DISCUSSION live go to www.LVROCKS.com at 6pm PT and click on LISTEN and click on CAM/CHAT.  If you miss the LIVE webcast here is the podcast feed.

Comments

[Humphrey]

I doubt they'll find anything at the bottom of the pond. This is just like the F-16s, done for show. Paulus isn't so stupid as to have arranged for the body to be dumped there.

Fortunately, reports make it out to be an ephemeral pond and there won't be much harm to wildlife. As an avid fisherman and duck hunter, it pisses me off when authorities go around needlessly draining ponds just because it *might* have some evidence in a crime.

[kell]

I dont think she is in that pond either. If she is then that sucks because they should have found her long ago. I would have drained every damn pond on the island the day she came up missing.

[Dan]

I don't think it's about money, Kell

[R Nelson]

No to deflate anyone's bubble, but we all have to remember: PVS said; Without a body there is no crime. Assuming he knows more than we do, we shouldn't anticipate finding anything in the pond.

[kell]

who ever is watching the news right now keep us updated. I'm at work so i cant watch it.

[FloridaPatty]

Ubiquitous you make a point about Arubans staying quiet until the reward got larger.
A lot has happened to effect that, not just the reward.

The Kalpoes mother was fired after her boys were arrested. She worked this job 9 years.

One of the security gaurds who was detained was also fired.

Paul VDS was supposedly friends with the lead investigater. Conflict of interest? Why didn't that investigater recuse himself???

There was a sense of fear "he was afraid" by the witness who saw the trio on that dirt road and recognized them later in the newspaper that he would be involved in an investigation, court, witness, high profile case and he didn't want this. (it would seem these residents are aware of the corruption/conflict of interest).

[R Nelson]

Interesting point someone made that the pond was dry when NH disappeared,and as CJ pointed out "or what's buried within it" They'll be looking for ground disturbances.

[kell]

Oh my god. someone on the other blog has just reported that they found a body in the pond. does anyone know if this person is lieing

[mariaK]

FloridaPatty: My question is why didn't the gardener's employee go to the police? Especially if he was already in jail and talking about what his gardener knew. That would have changed the dynamic of the investigation long ago. Why was it only a tabloid (Diario) that got this information? That is why I question the validity.

[kell]

checkme is the one who is saying it

[nada]

@kell

what blog?
who is checkme?

[Andrea]

Maybe we should turn interests to another disapearance case...about an african american

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/27/Philadelphia.missing/index.html

[kat_gram]

I agree that they would have to notify the family first IF they found a body.

I would still like to know where these three creeps were the night after.. that would be the Monday night, the night that the HT's came to Aruba.

The gardner witness saw them the night of the disappearance and probably didn't think too much about it as she was not reported missing until later. Then, they arrested the security guards who had nothing to do with it. The three creeps were not arrested until June 9 or 10th. The gardner was " afraid " to come forward. Says something about the island. Want to make a bet that the gardner's family is not a member of the polis or the judicial community ?
The mother of one of the security guards hinted at racism.

[kool lon drago]

Andrea,
Enough already with the race card!

[jo]

Checkme has caught a lot of flack for that comment...he made it a couple of hours ago and it was never substantiated. Apparently he has inside info but he basically got booed off the board....

[Big Pappy]

I thought it interesting Shango mentioned a gardener in his writings, not that it makes much sense given the context of the tennis club. I saw another article call it a nightclub though, so which is it? Could there be underground parties there and such?

The maze offers many hidden desires, deflowerings of forbidden fruits. DirtyHand knows. So does the elder. The lamb is a scapegoat. DirtyHand has walked through the maze. He knows of the forbidden fruit, and the gardeners.

[kell]

yes, the girl is gorgeous and pregnant. thats sad

[FloridaPatty]

Humphrey I think we're looking at a retention pond and not a regular lake you'd fish.

kool I was WAITIN' for someone to pull that card! Ah, Americans are so predictable.

Maria: The gardner didn't come forward because of what I previously posted. He was afraid. He was also not the one who was jailed. Jossy from Dairio newspaper told the story to Greta. It is repeated on Scared Monkeys which was the only place I could find a direct quote:

« Scared Monkey’s Interview Transcript with Tim Miller - July 24th, 2005Aruban Radio Reports on Duct tape & Hair »Diaro Report on Fox - A New Witness
by Scared Monkeys

Here is the latest breaking news coming out of Aruba.

Jossy M. Mansur of Diario heard about a domino game in the prison in which someone said to Deepak that he was seen the evening Natalee Holloway disappeared. According to Jossy Mansur, the story went like this:

“Hey, my gardener saw all 3 of you at the racquet club that morning” and Deepak gets mad and throws the dominoes all over the table. Jossy and his crew hunt down the gardener and convince him to go to the police even though he is scared."

Again, this is from Scared Monkey
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1320

[kell]

Well, the tennis place is called the Racquet Club. I think when that news paper got there info they assumed it was a night club and reported it that way. Woops

[outraged]

R Nelson,

Ground disturbances. Please expand. I believe the pit is composed mainly of course sand layers.
Hard clay, maybe different. Organics, forget it.

The pit does appear to have a hard bottom. The firefighters were not struggling as they traversed it.

[Dixie]

ohmygod:
I agree with melja, It's a refreshing thought anyway, people could use one here ;)
I'm amazed how many people "claim" to know the truth and judge a scared little kid, with no direct evidence whatsoever as to his guilt.

Posted by: madness | July 27, 2005 03:13 PM

Refreshing thought??? omg.. how crude you are madness and Joran is NOT a scared little kid BTW. He is an obnoxious gansta wannabe brat who is probably already an alcoholic at the age of 17.

[King of Controversy (Holland)]

@ Dixie
"He is an obnoxious gansta wannabe brat who is probably already an alcoholic at the age of 17."
And you know that because...

[(((AG)))]

ohmygod,
What newspaper was the psychic story in?

[shyne235]

this has gotten nuts; out of control

sometimes, it seems, 2 and 2 really does make a 5 .. over and over and over again

[kell]

yep

[kell]

Does anyone know if the duct tape find was indeed a hoax?

[FloridaPatty]

June 28th from Scared Monkeys

Before you watch Greta … see what Friend of Monkey has to say about her conversation with Mickey John.
I just got off phone with Mickey John.
Greta was at his house today and he may be on tonight.
I asked him if Deepak told him, he said “I never should have left her with Joran”
HE SAID NO, NEVER.
Deepak did say to him that he and Saish dropped NH and Joran off at the Marriot after he lighthouse. Then Deepak said he and Satish went home.
The whole thing he said about Holiday Inn was a lie that the VDS “family”
made up and asked Deepak and Satish to agree to. As far as what Deepak meant by the VDS “family” he doesn’t know if it includes “Tom Dick or Harry” to quote Mickey John. Also Mickey did believe that Deepak was telling truth. Deepak was sorry to have supported the family lie as it landed him in jail.
I may miss show… Thanks
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1198

Hmmmmmmm... so it would reason that Joran being REAL familiar with that tennis club and the area around it would go to a place he is comfortable with to do what needs to be done. He's driving the car, in charge, and the boys have a car to borrow. Hey, what are friends for?

[nlk2005]

God Bless You Natalee:)

[mariaK]

FloridaPatty:Thanks for the reply. My question isn't so much why is the gardener only coming up now, my real question is why didn't the gardener's EMPLOYER, who was apparently telling what his gardener knew, go to the police or call the tipline. The EMPLOYER had information that may have been used to find Natalee weeks ago. Why did only Diario know about this? Why didn't the EMPLOYER say something if the gardener was afraid? I just think it strains the credibility of the witness, but we'll know for sure when the pond is drained.

[FloridaPatty]

AG the story was in the Diario Aruban paper that we couldn't translate. The link is at the top.

[Jacque]

Ohmygod,

This psychic better stay away from the roulette table using their phychic powers as to which number will come up next... cause they will loose!

This individual should be ashamed of themselves to even bring such a thing up. They have to be a friend of a scared loosing side to poke at a grieving family in the worst possible way.

Now, I have said my piece!

[kell]

so, do you guys think they will find something this time when they drain the pond?

[John]

They will probably find another clue to keep dragging this along.

[calista]

I know the Holloway family well and I can assure you that her parents are not involved. As a matter of fact they are spending thousands of personal dollors trying to find her. When they get back home they are not going to have a dime. So, i dont think they're interested in the money. Not only are they spending everything that they have, but neither one of her parents have worked for two months. So just all of you think on that for a while. I haven't seen Beth or Natalie since November, but a family member told me that when Beth found out that blood was found in one of the suspects car she became so upset that she started vomiting. Does that sound like she's involved. I not even suppost to be running my mouth, but hearing the negative crap people say can be so hurtful.

Posted by: kell | July 27, 2005 03:17 PM

I get so tired of people coming on here claiming to know natalee or her family so well or be a parent of one of the kids on the case and all that......they want everyone to think they have "inside info" seems to me they just want attention because if they knew anythng really relevant to this case they wouldn't and shouldn't be spillling it on here..........and by the way there never was a report of any blood found in anyones car if there was UI am sure the kalpoes woul;d not be walking around today free

[calista]

and I for one DO think it is odd that jossy mansur and jug twitty went tot he same military school, now Jug's stepdaughter is missing in Aruba which Mansur owns half of plus he is tied to money laundering drugs etc....and to top it off Jug's brother is vp of amsouth bank which had it's own little money laundering scheme happen.......do I htink Jug hurt Natalee? No but I od think there are too many strange "coincidences" to ignore here

[edward]

King of Controversy (Holland)
because the Dutch are scam bags... where have you been....

[FloridaPatty]

Maria, the gardner didn't come forward, perhaps wouldn't have come forward had the newspaper not traced down the source of this rumor about someone seeing Deepak while he was in jail and he threw down the dominoes and walked away.

Greta reported that on the island, and I think Jossy stated so as well, that the people are/were scared. It's a big case, much publicity and with the former lead investigator and authorities working the case, it was known that Paul Van Der Sloot was friends with the former lead investigater. Anyone who came forward or was involved got in trouble. Mrs. Kalpoe got fired from her job, the security guard got fired from his job.

I don't discredit the witness seeing them. I just posted something from June where Deepak is quoted as saying he should never have left Joran alone with her. I think it's going to start getting real dirty now and these guys are going to turn on eachother. Look what's happened in a week's time? Now that the FBI is involved, the technology in the U.S. profiling killers, tracking cold cases, the specialized skills dedicated to law enforcement cast a TOTALLY different game now on this case.

I don't think it's just circumstance that all these other people on the case are now off the case or out of country.

Nope.

[Concerned parent]

"I haven't seen Beth or Natalie since November, but a family member told me that when Beth found out that blood was found in one of the suspects car she became so upset that she started vomiting."
Posted by: kell | July 27, 2005 03:17 PM

That is so heartbreaking!

[MrsJimiHendrix]

ANDREA

thanks for that link.

we cannot forget others

and what of the assisant principal from alabama who has been missing from brimingham since may 22? he is african american too.

very sad

[FloridaPatty]

MSNBC reporting on the Abrams report that DNA found on Natalees toothbrush had MALE DNA on it and they wanted the Kalpoes and Joran's DNA for comparison.

[FloridaPatty]

INCOMING:

MSNBC 6 PM EST reporting updates on the case today.

The pond is 5 or 6 feet deep.

Equusearch suggested pumping the pond 2 weeks ago. Tim Miller talking right now.

Why 2 weeks ago?
We knew one witness two weeks ago that saw the three of them out there. Before we knew there was a witness the dogs caught the smell of a foul odor but we couldn't find it, the wind blows so hard here.

Tim MIller: We searched about 60% of the pond.

Brought a methane gas detecter here because we know a human body releases methane gas for up to 3 months.

[Riva Dryan]

Is Deepak a Negro?

[nlk2005]

D is Surinamese

[Robert]

I do not think they wil find anything. Some time ago an Atlanta radio station told of one of the black guys being overly agressive to a woman in Atlanta when she was in Aruba.

[tpbrenn]

Does anyone know about a phone call that Beth Twitty received the night NH disappeared? I just
read about it in another post earlier today.
According to the poster, she got a call around 4am and heard a voice in the background asking "Are you calling home?".
I am curious if this is just another rumor...

[debbie]

I have been reading on this site for weeks now and have not posted. I just want to say that I live in Alabama, near where Nat is from, I have a daughter her age and this is all so scary! I enjoy reading all that you guys have to say, kinda like a real live CSI investigation. May God bless Natalie and her family and may the truth be known. Thanks to all of you for your intelligent thoughts. I have been getting a lot more insight here than on the news networks. Also God bless Greta and all she is doing with her show to continue to bring this case to light. She catches a lot of flack from some about her continual coverage of this case, but atleast she cares enough to continue

[blibk]

Edward,

have been reading your comments for some time now and you are really pissing me off. Telling insulting stories about a country (the Netherlands) which you previously probably never even heard off. You are a pathetic person and people like you give the US citizens, which in general are highly regarded over here, a very bad name. But hey what do you care? The Netherlands is just a third world country filled with lying criminals.

[frenchymom]

I believe that one of the thoughts and concerns (per Greta last evening) with the pond is that they could have buried her body or other evidence there knowing that as soon as a rain comes it fills up. It doesn naturally evaporate through time and then refills again with the next rain. what better place to bury someone than in a drained pond you know will soon fill with water. Even searching the "pond" would likely not find a buried body.

If it had recently had water, the ground could have still been soft making the digging easier. Very scary.

I did notice Beth Twitty seems fairly resigned now to the likelihood Natalee is no longer alive. She even spoke about her and said "the last night that Natalee was seen alive."
What a strong woman Beth is. I hope this ordeal ends and Natalee and her family can return home soon.

[MrVDO]

this will be lost in all the cyber-blather, but hell-OOOO!!!!

why is everyone calling this a "POND!!!???"" has anyone actually looked at the pictures/video??

it's, at best, a drainage ditch .... an overflow/off-flow/flow-off/whatever-you-want-to-call-it that's barely a foot deep and only exists at times of heavy rain.

i think everyone has this idea that some picturesque little pond with fishies and ducks and happy outdoorsmen is being desicrated to further an investigation.

this is, at best, a futile effort .... at worst, a bad publicity stunt to let everyone think everything is under control

[jessica]

Humphrey,

How dare you get mad about a stupid pond being drained. A poor girl who was possibly tortured and killed could be lying at the bottom of that pond. I think it is worth risking the lives of wildlife to determine what happened to Natalee Holloway. Get your priorities in order.