Aruba Update

One of the issues that is so frustrating about this case is all of the misinformation. I saw one web site recently claim the land fill witness went to the police and was ignored. Unfortunately, if you simply take the spin from Aruba and run with it, it causes more confusion, than anything else.

I do know that the FBI had searched the land fill on at least one occasion. There is certainly nothing wrong with additional, and hopefully more thorough searching - but it needs to be based upon information - and not hyperbole.

In addition to the pond, Trump said authorities are searching a landfill for the third time since a witness came forward shortly after Holloway disappeared.

The witness claimed he saw more than one person dump into the landfill something he believes could have been a covered body, CNN has learned from sources briefed on the investigation. The witness also gave police a license tag number that reportedly belonged to a white pickup truck.

Police tell CNN that a tag check found that the vehicle was not at the landfill at or around the time the witness claimed. About 11 members of Equusearch, a Dickinson, Texas-based volunteer group that specializes in searches, also combed through the landfill Saturday.

Spokesman Kevin O'Brien said the search was going "slow, very slow, with lots and lots of digging in pretty unpleasant conditions." O'Brien said three cadaver dogs hit on specific areas within the landfill early Saturday, but a physical search located three containers of medical waste instead.

UPDATE: Reader AK was kind enough to transcribe  the following from Jossy Mansur's recent appearance on On The Record - he is discussing witnesses as regards the landfill.

On The Record, Fri, 7-29

Jossy Mansur interviewed by Martha McCallum on Greta's On TheRecord Fri, 7-29:

(Martha McCallum substituting - asking questions): ... Martha: What did the witness say?

Jossy: I'll tell you exactly what he said. He told us that he saw a pickup with three men enter the dump. He saw 2 of the men get off, pick up a black garbage, plastic bag. Two of the men carried it. Some kind of blond hair fell from the bag, in other words, stuck out from the back. They placed this bag over where there was a lot of rubble, bags. And then they picked up a small baby pool, you know those plastic pools that babies bath in. And then they put it over that bag that they put over there. Now this afternoon it so happens that they did find that item of interest, which is that pool. And tomorrow they're going to dig very deep in there to find out if this guy is telling the truth. If he is telling the truth then they must find that bag that he said that he saw those people place there.

Martha : Why didn't this person come forward sooner with story?

Jossy: Because everybody here is scared of this story. This story has gone totally out of proportion. It has become high profile, especially in the US. And people don't normally want to be involved in anything that smells of anything like a crime, or a murder, or whatever; because there's a lot of personal implications for them -- to be interrogated by the police, held there for hours, to be taken to court and act as witness. So it is very hard for people who don't have any kind of experience with this sort of thing to just come forward and say what they saw. But this story has been going around for some time... tomorrow we will find out more.

Martha : Tell us more about this pool... It seems like if they covered it up with that they would have gotten to a body fairly quickly after they uncovered that pool. Jossy: Not necessarily -- because as the weeks passed much other rubble has been thrown on top of it and the tractors have been pushing everything together. So that wouldn't be necessarily true.... And they have to be looking in the coming 2-3 days all around this pool that they found today.... It's a time consuming, a physical job. They have to look at everything. It is a Titanic job.

Martha : How much impact does this reward money have on these witnesses coming forward now? ... A million dollar reward?

Jossy: As far as I'm concerned, none. Because these witnesses, they don't come forward when these rewards were posted. They've been around quite some time before that.

Martha : Do these witnesses know each other at all.

Jossy: Absolutely not. Then you have the other witness that says that by the Holiday Inn he saw practically the same thing. He saw a white PU with 3 male occupants and that they were dragging some kind of a body, of a lady, and put it in the back of that white PU. And then drive away.... But these people don't know each other. They are very far apart. And they both seem to see the same PU with the same three characters in there.

Martha: But doesn't it seem curious to you that they would come forward in a similar span of time to say that they saw these similar things?

Jossy: I don't know about the span of time or how they are related to each other time wise. What I do know is at least the one witness at the landfill is a pretty serious witness. I think that the police have some kind of trust in his reliability as they wouldn't be spending all of this time, effort and money going so totally over every single heap of garbage that they can find there.

Martha : How specifically do they identify the people they saw.

Jossy: ...They don't identify the three. I didn't hear anything about that. They identified another man that was standing outside of the cyclone fence. But I would hesitate to even mention his name because unless we have some kind of proof - that we will get in the next two days -- it wouldn't be fair to anyone to mention names. [My observation as I watched the video at this instant -- a slight smile emerges from the corner of his Jossy's mouth!] END OF INTERVIEW

Comments

[pamy]

for those of you who do not see why we should focus on nat and that we do focus on nat because she is a beautiful, well off white girl and are wondering why we dont remember that there are hundreds if not thousands of missing people we should learn about and help, isnt there a blog called "missing people"? why dont you go there and help out? we are focusing one at a time. many families probably need the help, but are they doing anything themselves to get attention started. yes, i know some are trying. i live in a city where there are some.

[pamy]

wait, correction to above, i meant "and think we focus on nat because she is a beautiful, well=off, white girl" not a fruedian slip at all, i assure you.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/natalee_hollowa_90.html#comment-7743321

[TJ]

Moeder van Natalee Holloway verlaat Aruba
31 juli 2005, 23:10:08

PALM BEACH (ANP) - Na meer dan twee maanden heeft de moeder van de vermiste Amerikaanse tiener Natalee Holloway Aruba verlaten. Beth Holloway Twitty keert pas terug naar het eiland als zich nieuwe ontwikkelingen voordoen in de zaak rond haar vermiste 18-jarige dochter.

Dat meldde de Amerikaanse nieuwszender CNN zondag. Holloway wordt sinds 30 mei vermist. Uitgebreide zoektochten, onder meer met F16-straaljagers van de Nederlandse luchtmacht, hebben niets opgeleverd.

Het Openbaar Ministerie verdenkt de 17-jarige Joran van der S. en de Surinaamse broers Satish (17) en Deepak (17) K. van betrokkenheid bij haar verdwijning. Zij zijn voor zover bekend de laatste personen met wie ze contact had. Van der S. is de enige die nog in voorlopige hechtenis zit, omdat hij onlangs zijn verklaring wijzigde over zijn laatste ontmoeting met Holloway.

[TJ]

Beth Holloway is leaving Aruba....

[Skeeter]

TJ

she left yesterday...where ya been?

[TJ]

According to CNN as reported by Durch News Agency (ANP).

[TJ]

Sorry, I'm Dutch...

[Jessie]

Beth left Dave Holloway again. But this time she left him in the Municipal Dump. How low can you go?

[jaybo]

I haven't read all of the comments so forgive me if this has already been asked.

How or what did the Aruban police use to verify that the white pick-up in question was not at the landfill?

Who are these people and are they in any way connected to any of the suspects?

I just cannot believe any statements from the Aruban police without more proof that the lead is, in fact, not credible.

How about if we here it from the FBI?

[birmingham dog]

I dont know about you all, buit if it was MY Daughter that was supposed to be dumped at that landfill, I WOULD BE THEE MYSELF SEARCHING.

WHERE are the Twitys searching? and by the way Hve any of You seen the Twity's SEARCHING anywhereNow I have seen DAVE HOLLOWAY Searching all over the place, and back home here in Birmingham there is talk about some serious conflict between the Twitys and Holloways. MYSELF I am with DAVE HOLLOWAY.

GWD

[Sheshark]

No one here knows my ethic background, but if I lost a child, rich or poor, I'd do everything within my power to find her regardless of people's opinions.
If you want to help someone, adopt a child through SAVE THE CHILDREN.

[blue]

Eat your heart out iwabwu.

[blue]

I like backgammon.

[R]

Dave Holloway has been treated disgracefully from the start. Jug is always introduced with Beth as "Natalee's parents." Dave sometimes surfaces as an afterthought. Jug has had far more to say than Dave, gives way more interviews, and acts so profoundly indignant. He called PVDS "disgusting," and that he has a "coward's face." He always faces the camera arrogantly, chin jutted out. I'm sure he is frustrated and what not, but he lacks the absolute grief that shows on Dave's and Beth's face. Now on some mssg. boards people are trying to shoot down Dave; he divorced Beth and so on. It's been Jug that has "been through this thing," they say. And of course, they get mad because he has returned home to "his second family." Please. Beth and Jug's married is a recent one. How often do step-parents who are recent arrivals actually love the kids as much or more than natural parents? Jug look fine to me. Sometimes he looks like he is enjoying the interviews a bit. Dave looks grief stricken.

[Palisade Lady]

There is enough tragedy here to go around without strangers pitting Natalee's parents against each other.....stick to the issues people

[beebee]

Jossy: I'll tell you exactly what he said. He told us that he saw a pickup with three men enter the dump. He saw 2 of the men get off, pick up a black garbage, plastic bag. Two of the men carried it. Some kind of blond hair fell from the bag, in other words, stuck out from the back. They placed this bag over where there was a lot of rubble, bags. And then they picked up a small baby pool, you know those plastic pools that babies bath in. And then they put it over that bag that they put over there. Now this afternoon it so happens that they did find that item of interest, which is that pool. And tomorrow they're going to dig very deep in there to find out if this guy is telling the truth. If he is telling the truth then they must find that bag that he said that he saw those people place there

That was the blue and white that was around the person...this is a good witness...now if one of those men have long almost shoulder length jet black hair and are olive completion younger...this is highly probable.... this should be solved by the week end.... even though I takes months to dig through all that what if this gives us 5 new suspects...I am still hoping for a safe return...against all odds with prayers.

[annb]

Does anyone think the person outside the fence (hence the slight smile from Jossy) was Paul VDS.

[Suzanne]

TO "R"--
I assure you that the Twitty and Holloway families KNOW and CARE that other people are missing! Most of them ARE NOT missing in a foreign country, with a corrupt or completely inept police force, suspects who are "connected" and therefore,protected. Too bad she didn't go missing in the good,ole USA where she would have long ago been found and the suspects
proscuted and sentenced. Don't be so blind as to the difference in this situation.

[Mary L. Hart]

Someone somewhere on this internet website said that all the cell phone calls that the guys had when they were with Natalee were being checked for calls made. Does Aruba have 911, or is it okay for these men to have sex with a young girl and leave her buried in a shallow grave on the beach.

Also, one of these websites showed that the three have given a written confession that has not been released until the body is found.

My opinion, also told by authorities, is that they believe Deepak and Satish moved Natalee's body from the shallow grave on the beach to another unspecified location, ha, in the well at the Van der Sooten's house.

Again, I am requesting anyone with the authority in ARUBA to have the well searched at the home of Joran's family, otherwise, what is Paul hiding? Well Paul? Why don't you allow our United States citizens to do their work of searching for a missing girl, who is missing because of your son.

Will the Prime Minister of Aruba let us have Natalee's body given back to us.

She has been moved from the garbage dump to the well on Joran's father's property, with Paul's permission, of course.

She is no where else. They are wasting time. Aruba needs to let the people get her out of the well to take her home.

[linda]

Ok - off topic - I know - but I have a question of the regulars here. Who is it on this board that goes to Starbucks? Is it Blacklable? I can't remember - but whoever it is - I think Dan posted a link to them - check this out - found in Redux (if already discussed - sorry) lol
http://crankyneocon.typepad.com/crankyneocon/2005/08/2040_where_are_.html

[Bobbie]

My daughter vacations in Aruba every Novenber and states that all locals are aware of a body of water that is shark and pirhana infested.She thinks that the three involved fed her to the sharks thus elminating the body. Remember " No body no crime?"

[mom]

pamy...you have a very good point. I have had several really great ideas as to how to reach out and be of help in SOME way...and every one of the more practical ones seem to be pointing toward fundraising of some kind. But how can you be SURE the money is going where you meant for it to go when you gave it?

****************************************
There are lots of ways to help in your community that do not involve money.
My daughter and I:
 hold babies that are born premature and abandoned,
 play with children at a home for abused kids,
 volunteer in the summer at a camp that is specially designed for children with seviere medical needs,
 work in our city’s community gardens and help neighbors in lower income areas grow fresh vegetables,
 groom abandoned dogs and spend 4 hours each Saturday at a pet store helping these dogs find a home.

The opportunities are endless and require no money. They require giving of yourself. Find something you love and give of your time and talent. Anyone can hold a baby or walk a dog. If you can not go someplace, can you design a website for a not-for-profit? Help with the accounting? Contact media to support PR? With the internet you can make a difference in the lives of those in need without leaving home.

[merlene malik]

I do not see this girl being dead I think vender sloot settled a drug deal off useing her as a trade.my in sights tells me she had contact with some one before she even hit that Island. computerized(internationally) they need to check her computer at home. this 17 year old was just a 3rd party. like the deverily man. i truely do not believe she is dead or on that Island. and I nelieve she is happy.and alive.

[Anne Forbotten]

I dreamt that Natalee Holloway's driver's license and other important personal belongings surfaced to the top of swamp like sandy water. It was next to some white port a cans and these weird metal things painted white/cream that looked like huge suckers on their sides. There was three of them. In the dream she was in this shallow hole reaching up.

Isn't it amazing that the Kalpoe brothers have a website on a teen site that also features them partying with Joran Van der Sloot in pics. However, Joran doesn't have a website on there. Probably had daddy delete his and his featured comments as well. Ran across his site the other day. Joran always seemed to have money,(but no job} his dad was a gambler and well connected to probably drug lords he did favors for and people are scared to come forward with information because they know of this his connections and afraid they will be wiped out by the mafia. Joran is rotten to the bone and known to go out and brag on his status, as well as using his money to buy him favors. When Natalee left the bar it is said she sat in the backseat with Joran. This is who her nightly interest was, however, she was probably given rape drugs, fun with wrong and somebody had to cover the crime. Maybe daddy had her removed from the island. What would three teen / college boys think to do with a dead body or a girl that might talk? Joran sure doesn't seem to have any remorse for her disappearance. They know in the ocean something might wash onto shore if they threw her there, in a dump, people can dig up stuff, and in a pond, it may get dry and she may surface at a drout. Now what would be an alternative????

[francis evans]

how can you win a case when all of the cops judges &proscutors are related to the men who done this to a beautiful girl that just over ther for some fun ive been to aruba but not any more until these men are brought to pay for there crimes