Article Translation

Thanks to all the readers who wanted to help out, especially Sjoerd who provided the translation below. Tom and Red at Scared Monkeys are good guys and colleagues - but I'm wondering if someone didn't juiice up the translation on them just a little bit without their knowing, or perhaps just make it at least a little more inflammatory than it was. Either that, or mine was watered down.

Comments later, perhaps. I'm in a rush.

Tieners VS feesten vooral op Aruba

door onze correspondent Nina Jurna

ORANJESTAD - De op Aruba vermiste tiener Natalee Holloway wordt in de media neergezet als een keurig, onschuldig, conservatief meisje van achttien dat op schoolreisje ging. Geen meisje dat zich op Aruba zou uitleven. Maar is dat wel realistisch?

Arubanen weten het: maandelijks komen duizenden Amerikaanse jongeren naar het eiland voor seks, drugs en drank. Op Aruba mag je, in tegenstelling tot thuis in Amerika, al op je zestiende drinken en voor een jointje beland je niet in de gevangenis. ,,Hier doen ze alles wat ze thuis niet mogen en zeker niet kunnen'', vertelt Gijs van 't Hullenaar. Hij is manager van enkele bars en nachtclubs, zoals van Moomba Beach, een populaire strandtent pal naast het hotel Holiday Inn, waar Natalee Holloway logeerde.

Los

Van 't Hullenaar schetst een duidelijk beeld van de Amerikanen zoals hij ze tijdens zijn horecacarrière op het eiland heeft leren kennen. ,,Ze kennen geen grenzen. Ze gaan helemaal los. Ze drinken abnormaal veel, ze blowen en gebruiken vaak ook meer drugs. Ook de meiden. Die zijn misschien nog wel erger dan de jongens. Ze flirten met de barkeepers en komen vragen om gratis drank. 'Als we niets hoeven te betalen, zetten we je tent op stelten en maken we een leuk feestje' zeggen ze dan.''

In Amerika mogen jongeren vanaf hun 21e verjaardag alcohol drinken en tot die tijd komen ze ook geen bar binnen. Op Aruba gelden de veel soepeler Nederlandse regels. ,,De jonge Amerikanen komen niet gewoon gezellig de bar binnen om wat te drinken; nee, ze willen stomdronken worden. Soms leggen ze gewoon een pakketje dollars op de bar en zeggen: 'geef me iets voor dit geld waar ik zo snel mogelijk dronken van word'.''

In de zaak van de vermiste Amerikaanse studente Natalee Holloway werd Van 't Hullenaar ook verhoord. Tegenover de politie en ook in een uitzending van de Amerikaanse televisiezender Fox heeft hij de reputatie van de Amerikaanse jeugd niet onder stoelen of banken gestoken. ,,Heel wat Amerikaanse ouders weten waarschijnlijk niet wat hun kinderen hier op Aruba allemaal uitspoken.''

Hypocriet

Hij vindt het hypocriet nu net te doen alsof het er hier allemaal zo netjes aan toe gaat, hoe vreselijk het ook is dat het meisje wordt vermist. ,,Maar dat ze stomdronken uit de nachtclub kwam, dat hoor je wel hier op het eiland, maar lees je niet terug in de Amerikaanse pers. Natuurlijk zeggen alle ouders: zulke dingen doet mijn dochter niet. Maar dat zeiden mijn ouders vroeger ook over mij.''

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Above all US teenagers party on Aruba

by our correpondent Nina Jurna (Nederlands Dagblad)

ORANJESTAD- The missing teenager Natalee Hollway is being described in the media as a tidy, innocent, conservative eighteen year old girl on a graduation trip. Not a girl who would be a party animal on Aruba . But is this surely realistic?

Arubans know this: every month thousands of American juniors bcome to the island for sex, drugs and booze. On Aruba you are allowed, contrary to the situation at home in America , drink when you are sixteen and for (smoking) a joint you will not end up in jail. ”Here they do everything what they are not allowed to do at home and surely can’t do at home”, Gijs van 't Hullenaar says. As a manager he owns several bar and nightclubs, like Moomba Beach , a popular beach club right next to the Hollyday Inn where Natalee Holloway was staying.

Loose

Van ’t Hullenaar illustrates a clear image of the Americans as he has gotten to know them throughout his career on the island. “They have no limits. They’re going totally loose. They are drinking excessively, they smoke pot and often use other drugs as well. Likewise the girls. May be they are even worse than the boys. Thet flirt with bartenders and ask for free drinks. “We will cheer up this place and make a big party if we don’t have to pay”, they say.

In America juniors are permitted to have alcoholic beverages from age 21 and before that they cannot even visit a bar. On Aruba we have the much more flexible Dutch regulations. “The young Amricans don’t just just enter a bar to socialize and enjoy a drink; no, they want to become blind drunk. Sometimes they just drop a pacjage of dollars on the bar and say: “Give me something for this that makes me drunk fast”.

Van ’t Hullenaar was heard in the case of the missing American graduate Natalee Holloway. In talks with the police and also during a Fox interview he didn’t restrain in describing the reputation of the American youth. “A lot of American parents probably have no idea what their children are messing with here on Aruba ”.

Hypocrisy

He (Van ’t Hullenaar) thinks it is hypocritical to pretend that everything that happens here is going so decent and proper over here, not to mention the dreadful fact of the missing girl. “But that she left the nightclub ‘blind drunk’, yes that’s what we hear on the island, but you never read this in the American press. Ofcourse all parents say: “My daughter doesn’t do these things. But that is what my parents used to say about me too”.

Comments

[michele in bham]

I think what some people resent is the image put out by the family and others that Natalee was not the drinking and partying type.

Yes, maybe she was or wasn't, but either way, she sure didn't deserve to die for it.

Let that be a cautionary tale to others.

As Natalee's aunt said, there is never a good outcome when booze is involved.

(Paraphrase.)

And I guess what the Arubans are mad about is that everyone is acting like she got kidnapped from a church social.

[harry]

Michelle:

I believe the senior classes went to Aruba for six prior years before the Class of 2005 trip. I would tend to agree that the students of Class 2005 knew what lied ahead of them in Aruba.

You know if you can quote Corinthians, you sound religious to me.

[tideroller]

Rajir - I come from a teetotalling Alabama family. Have we ever gone to a bar with friends who did imbibe? Yes. Just being in a bar does not mean you get commode-hugging drunk. So stop slamming Natalee when testimony is that she wasn't drunk. Suppositions that have no basis in fact are nothing but vicious slander and vile gossip. Both of which (and nothing else) you engage in constantly on this blog. How much are they paying you, Rajir. Is it really worth it? At least you didn't mention her "provocative clothing" this time. Did the photographs finally convince you that she was modestly dressed?

[mona]

Your right Dutchy...life is too short.... especially for Natalee

[grimer11]

as it will be for urine and those 2 slopes.

[Canadian Girl]

BamiDad

I really hope you do not have children. If you do they have my sympathy!

Everything thing we have read about Natalie was said by those who new her. Her friends, her family, her teacher's, and classmates. I don't know what backwards redneck village you live in, but here is a news flash...She had a 4.15 grade point average, has a scholarship to med school, went to church,volunteered her time to the disabled and was well liked by her teachers and peers.(None of whom have said one bad thing about her). No one has claimed she was a saint, no one is denying she went to Aruba to have a good time, no one is denying she was drinking while she was there.
I have never met Natalie or even heard of her before this tragedy but I have absolutely no problem beleiving she was all those things.

I have two teenage boys, they get reasonable grades, play sports, have lots of friends, and have gotten into trouble with me many times. I would hate for someone like you do suggest if they went to Aruba there character would completely change and suddenly they could be rapist, because I am not there watching them.

Maybe you need to open your eyes and realise how biased you are. You have no class!!!

[icey]

Typical useless american hating story with no bearing on this situation, Gijs van 't Hullenaar, your bar Moomba Beach, like CnC's and all the others, preys on and panders to young tourists, especially teenage girls. Your bar encourages bad behaivor, and when something goes wrong you hide behind a story that blames your patrons for everything. You are total scum. You happily profit off of the sorrow of others.

No one deserves to be drugged, kidnapped, raped or killed, with the possible exception of those who prey on teens for their own enjoyment.

Natalee met her fate at the hands of an Aruban local, who was out to victimize a young unsuspecting girl. No amount of story telling or victim bashing will erase this fact!!!

I say the "flexible" dutch regulations are somewhat to blame here. They seem to focus on overloading a 16 year old with whatever vices that can provide them.

Parents.. Be more inquisitive on the specifics of these party towns before allowing a teen to make the trip. Be aware that your child, especially girls, will be looked upon as fresh meat for the local crowd. Set up better chaperone policies, stress the need to avoid locals, stress the importance of not indicating when your are leaving, move around in groups of no less than 5, even to the bathroom and switch plans on the last night to stay in a tighter circle. (The last night is more prone to date rapes, due to the urgency to make a flight in the morning.)

Something can be learned from Natalee's misfortune, strive to keep her "alive" by educating teens and exposing those who prey on them.

icey..

[covered by grace]

Posted by: michele in bham | July 6, 2005 07:43 PM

But do you remember what he told the woman?

"Go and sin no more."

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things...

-------------

hey michele,

I'm a little slow, maybe...what's your point? (seriously)

thanks,
RT

[grimer11]

bravo, icey.

[larry]

That the Arubian media is taking a terroritorial posture says much about their bias and investigative skills. Interesting how they appear to take criticism personally while being so acceptive of such incompetence of their justice system. I say this fully recognizing the problems with the US justice system - it is far from perfect. But it is transparent.

The article hinting of the young girl's degenerate behavior is also interesting and says much about the attitude on that third world island.

That Natalie removed herself from the gene=pool is tragic. Yet, in the end, she did it to herself. That is not to say the boys did not place a drug in her drink, merely that she should have been more cognizant of her surroundings and of the obvious sharks swimming in the cantina and hotel. It is sad. But that's life - natural selection at work.

[andy]

Well, I will pray they will find Natalee and bring her home; after that you can rest assured your tourism will drop by 90% - very quickly.

[etak]

First off, FOX News consistently disregards the fact that they're supposed to be delivering facts so I wouldn't put any stock in their claim that these girls "drink responsibly". Let's be honest here - how many 17 year old partiers are responsible drinkers. A HUGE # of American girls (girls all over the world for that matter) love to get drunk and wild - smart, not-so-bright, athletic, studious, shy, bold - it doesn't matter. It doesn't make them bad, slutty, loose or stupid - it makes them TEENAGERS. Aruba is not the only spot where the kids go to party.
That being said, I'm wondering why there isn't more focus on the possibility of these 'suspects' being in over their heads with a threatening criminal element? Is kidnapping/human trafficking so unfathomable? It's a documented problem - major problem - in the Carribean just like everywhere else! What about Amy Bradley? A Naval Officer thinks he SAW HER in a brothel on Curcao - even if it wasn't her an american girl told him she needed HELP. Why would the suspects be so confident that no body would be found? Why would they be able to withstand WEEKS of interrogation by pros? These are teenagers, not trained soldiers! It is easier for me to believe that these suspects are scared enough to stay silent to save their own asses than it is to believe that they stay silent out to protect their friends.
And BambiDad: What the hell is wrong with you?? Come on out of the back woods and join the real world.

[grimer11]

larry....I hear what you are saying....she was a victim of not being forewarned about the absolute scum of the earth that is out there, existing for no other sole purpose other than to sin, denigrate and destroy....but you know what....if it had been explained to her, I bet you she wouldnt have believed that there are people like that.

[posters]

Scum owner or employee of the nightclub Mamboo and Carlos and Charlies in your belowed Aruba, before you cast a stone towards those who feed you, take a good look in the mirror chump.

Americans feed your sorry a$$ as do the other tourists, therefore if you didn't initiate some kind of Anything Goes these students would not behave in this manner. Your establishment encourage this, you advertise this by having local lotharios parading the beaches and the strip, seducing the girls into your fantasy realm you cockroach. How many times did your thugs bounce our boys out and step in the middle when our boys try to protect one of ourt girls, always and all the time you scum. Shut your mouth and do no encourage the girls to strip, and do not have your bar people and waiters lace the drinks, YOU SCUM. Conduct your establishment in a manner you do towards your own women, you scum. Carlos and Charlies and your bar is the SCUM of the scummiest holes. Your employees are instructed to make the entertainment and hold contests of degrading nature, yet you never hold them for your local girlies. Why is it that your lotharios are not allowed to enter the Hotel rooms, why is it they are not allowed to enter some of the moret classier establishments, cause you local machos are there to rob the girls, you are there to encourage it. So take your clubs and let your locals support your sorry a$$ and see how long you survive. You are not in business to make an honest $$$ you get it under the guise of rendering them incapacitated, you encourage it. If you had staff that stopped serving the weak, when they are gone overboard, and offered some sort of taxi service to their hotel, maybe you'd be more respected. In this case you are not, so shut your trap. After all you'd not do that to your sisters would you PUNK? Better take a look at how you conduct your business set some kind of example, next time you lace someones drinks, take them home you scum, only tghe weaK cowards do what you do, and putting the tourists in danger, you encourage it, it all starts in your clubs. So you can get you some white a$$ you punk, because that is the only way you can get any. God Bless America!!

[Canadian Girl]

andy

You can say that again!!!

I was trying to keep an open mind, and anyone who has read my posts knows that. Sorry my mind is now closed, I will never book a trip to a place where this is the additude of a local business owner. The ignorance of some on this board is disgusting. I agree with everything tideroller said. Three people, all known liars are the only ones that said Natalee was wasted. Those of you that come here to slander her and defend these liars and potential murderers obviously undereducated ignorant idividuals.

[Billy Bob]

It is a pretty safe bet that NH was at least a bit drunk when she left C%C. The majority of kids who stayed till closing time likely were also. That is just the likely reality of the situation. Most kids who are drunk or near drunk really do not recall events all that clearly. They have a general idea of what went on, but don't hold them to that idea and expect it to be totally accurate.

[harry]

As gentlemen, we should hold fast to the statements of the ALabama teenage girls: they drank responsibly. If there are those of you whom deem otherwise, I offer you your choice of a rapier or a pistol. I will give you ten paces, if close confrontation concerns you.

[murftn]

Drinking in Aruba is 18 it is not enforced, and I cannot believe that there are about 7 that I saw websites for Aruba that state if your not 18 "they usually don't card"...

http://www.aruba-travelguide.com/faq/#legalage

[Canadian Girl]

harry

No gentleman I know would try to imply that Natalee was anything other than what her friends and family, teachers and classmates say she was. You have no proof or facts to say otherwise and doing so is slander.
Natalee went to have a good time and I pray she did.
No one said she wasn't drinking either.
Dont turn your ignorant opinions into "facts".

[K.Jeanne]

Anyone know if any of the containers located on ocean floor were inspected today by Equusearch?

[harry]

Canadian Girl:

Is Canadian English the same as American English?

[Billy Bob]

Equusearch likely has about as good a chance of finding the body of Jimmy Hoffa out there in the waters as they do the body of NH. But it is good for Fox rateing, and as long as it is good for Fox ratings they will continue to report and you decide if what they are reporting is the truth or not.

[Jeanne]

It makes no difference that Natalee WAS drinking! It doesn't excuse anyone attacking her and taking her life. The inclination seems to be to suggest that it is her fault because we all know she was drinking....wooooooooooooooo! Well, I say horse fecal matter!!! Some sicko chose her as another notch on his belt and she paid with her life.

[Alabama person]

The Mountain Brook senior class took trips for about 6 years but not all were in Aruba. The second of the trips was to Jamaca. Last year's was also not in Aruba but I can not remember where my realtive's class went.

[true justice]

MinBham, I appreciate your letting us know about reality in Mtn Brook. While I vehemently oppose those who make uncalled for and unfounded attacks on Natalee's character, I do not think we should cover events up either. I think that the fact that we have been so secretive on our end may be contributing somewhat to the mountaing resentment against us in Aruba. I think this resentment is misguided and they would do better to take it out on their own governing officials. In the case of Joran the truth is certainly incriminating enough (underage drinking, gambling, allegedly bragging about sexual conquests from slipping roofies in foreign girls drinks, liar, anger fits and pinning the blame on innocent men). All of this has been made very public, as I think it should be. However, there were a few things said about him that apparently were not substantiated, the sex tape, for example. But the Arubans see only tight-lips coming out of the US. I can see where that could be annoying to them. It is not likely that out of 125 high school revellers all of them acted responsibly in every moment as claimed (but is contrary to what little testimony is out there). I think the Arubans might see a double standard there. All evidence points to Natalee as a high achieving, active in school activies, charitable young lady. But all events leading up to the tragic events of her last night (well, not last night) on Aruba could potentially be of value to the investigation and this information should not be held back. Please continue to keep us up to date on Mountain Brook. Thanks.

[Lurker]

Anybody who believes the line of crap about those kids "drinking responsibility" is in DEEP denial and/or incredibly naive!

The PRIMARY PURPOSE of the trip was to PARTY and/or GET DRUNK, that's why Aruba was chosen as the venue -- so those MINORS (as far as alcohol is concerned) could get sh!tfaced. There may have been one or two in the entire group who weren't drunk but probably not more than that.

Their parents are ashamed and embarassed, that's why the kids have acted so coached, evasive, and Stepford-like during interviews subsequent to their return. It ALSO explains why the reports of what transpired as Natalee was leaving Carlos 'N Charlie's have varied so widely -- THEY WERE DRUNK, PEOPLE! Intoxicated people make HORRIBLE witnesses and have HORRIBLE memories.

Get a clue -- those kids were partying!

And don't go there about the "are you saying Natalee deserved it" crapola, you know I didn't say that!

[moey]

If anyone goes out partying anywhere in the world whether it is their home country or a foreign country, they should be able to have a reasonable expectation to be be safe. Just because you take some drinks does not mean that you are asking to be raped, drugged or killed. You do have a duty to be responsible, but you should have an expectation of safety also, whether you are a kid, teenager, adult or senior citizen.

As for the person who made the comment about the Holloway/Twitty family suing for wrongful death, I doubt that they have statutes for either wrongful death or dram shop in Aruba and even if they did, any evidence to prove such allegations would be hard to get, if not impossible.

[Billy Bob]

Regarding expecations of being safe. You have a right to expect to be safe at the zoo, but if try to ride the tiger, you are on your own.

[michele in bham]

Harry, some of the Seniors at MBHS went on these trips, not all of the kids by any means.

Why? Because some of the parents said "No" and they KNEW it was just a party trip.

You have your contingent in the school that parties and what not, and you have your contingent that does not.

Not everyone went, and it wasn't considered the class of 2005's "senior trip."

The year before some kids went to Jamica and some went to Aruba.

The year before that, it was just Aruba.

Before that, I don't know and have not heard.

But it was known to be a "party trip" and the parents signed waivers agreeing to that.

LOTs of the kids in the Senior class didn't go, and some of the 124 who went were not all from MBHS.

[andy]

If Aruba fails to honor the State Departments request for more interaction, Aruba might be put on a traveler's advisory bulletin; you can use your imagination for the rest of that equation. I'm amazed; and I think the world is too at how stupid these gov't officials appear. What a public relations nightmare for Aruba - the politicians must really have a bunch of dirty laundry on each other.

[grimer11]

larry....I hear what you are saying....Natalee was a victim of not being forewarned about the absolute scum of the earth that is out there, existing for no other sole purpose other than to sin, denigrate and destroy....but you know what....if it had been explained to her, I bet you Natalee wouldnt have believed that there are people like that exist.

[ptk]

I posted this earlier but I'll do again...

From the beginning, like many Americans, I gave Aruba the benefit of the doubt. The recent backlash against Americans and the American media only bothered me slightly since I have spent most of my life overseas. The attacks on Natalee Holloway's family are a turning point for me. I will now never go to Aruba or let my family members go there. F@ck them! The U.S. has its own paradises.

I call on all Americans to go somewhere that benefits the American economy.... Hawaii, Florida, Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, U.S. Virgin Islands, etc. Aruba can die for all we care!

[evil]

There has to be some personal responsibility here. Her Mom for sending an 18 year old on a "party" trip to a foreign country with no chaperones. Natalee for putting herself in the situation for this to happen. She did not deserve to die for it but, you just can't put yourself in those situations, especially in a foriegn country. Joran took advantage of that.
Some say 18 year olds are adults? Then this story is about a missing adult in a foreign country.That just does not have the same ring does it? Seems that missing "kids" in America would take precendence.
The other "Adults" from MBHS are being restrained by the family PR person in Birmingham.
I have heard from one of them that stated they were told not to tell of any of their experiences on the trip by the Beth Twitty's sister.
A lady that was on the island with them said the kids were "Out of Control" the whole week.
She was on a party boat with them and said that Natalee was Dirty dancing with a local on the boat, it was so vulgar someone in their group made her stop. She said Natalee was "Wasted!"
She flew with them on the plane trip back and said those "Adults" were out of control on the plane as well. No one seemed too worried about Natalee.
Mountain Brooke is a rich, snooty, "better than everybody" else community.The FIRST thing the family did is make sure none of the other 150 kids told the world about their escapades in Aruba. Maybe everybody has a little cover-up going for them.

[JustMe]

OK, guys. Anyone who has read my posts on this board knows that I am not a troll. So I am going to say this.

Let's face facts.

Of course the parents of the kids sent them to Aruba to get knee crawling drunk, gamble and do anything else that they cannot legally do in the United States. That is the truth. If it were not the truth then why would they all have not taken family vacations to Gulf Shores? Gulf Shores has a nice beach.

The childrens' parents sent them to Aruba with only a modicum of supervision. Those Alabama teenagers were under considerably less adult supervision than Joran Van Der Sloot. My view is that the Alabama parents are astonishingly irresponsible, and allowing their children to go on such an excursion was a disaster waiting to happen.

That having been said, Natalee did not go to Aruba to disappear. Whomever it was that mistreated her needs to pay dearly.

[moey]

BillyBob:

That's right if you ride a tiger, you assume a risk for what occurs at that point and you are jointly liable for what occurs. So, yes one would assume some responsibility for behavior. Unfortunately for many years now people have not been taught that they are responsible for their actions, "its always someone else's fault."

I'm not saying that whatever happened to Natalie is her fault, it isn't and she should have had a reasonable expectation to be safe -- certainly from terrible harm.

I just hope she is found safe, but I don't think that will be the case.

[Billy Bob]

Regarding the State Dept. issuing a travel advisory bulletin on Aruba. U.S. international corperations likley have too much invested in Aruba for that on to ever get off the ground.
All the pols. in DC will do about this event is just posturing and I feel your pain bit. You know the routine by now.

[grimer11]

AVOID ARUBA.

[sxmmer]

The article just pose the question:"The missing teenager Natalee Hollway is being described in the media as a tidy, innocent, conservative eighteen year old girl on a graduation trip. Not a girl who would be a party animal on Aruba . But is this surely realistic? "

It does state that a lot of them enjoy their "freedom to explore".

Is it relevant to the case? No it is not. The fact that the girl is missing is really sad. Therefore a lot of effort is being done to find what happened. Basically all the Aruban police officers are working on the case. Holland send planes to search. The FBI is allowed to assist in the case. Voluntairy search team is allowed to assist. I think Aruba went all the way to assist the family to find the girl. If a similar case would happen in the USA, I wonder if a foreigner would be able to get the same privileges as the Holloway family gets in Aruba. I understand their frustrations, but I know that if you would call people criminals, like the Holowy family did, people would sue you!

It is very sad to see that there is such a huge gap between nations in terms of understanding and working together. No wonder the whole world is still a mess. We have to learn to accept each other and understand that everyone has their way of doing things. Yes, maybe the police should have done things differently, however that is always easier said after the fact.

Aruba has nothing to gain by hiding the real story and seeing the amount of resources they put into this case they really want this one solved. And solving a case means to look from all angles. So I think the FBI should interrogate all persons, who were on the trip and are close to Natalie. This is normal pratice, why is this not done?

Just my two cents.

[AnnaMaria]

I doubt anything - BHT's comments, Jug's demeanor, the Mtn Brook kids and chaperone's silence - brought about the Aruban pile-on of anger. One of the best books ever written, "Alive" by Piers Paul Reid, says it best: "People under stress always look for a scapegoat."

Aruba is unable to handle the fact that their LE is at best, inept and at worst, corrupt. They've found how to cope with that stress.

[michele in bham]

BillyBob said "Regarding expecations of being safe. You have a right to expect to be safe at the zoo, but if try to ride the tiger, you are on your own."

That bears repeating.

"Regarding expecations of being safe. You have a right to expect to be safe at the zoo, but if try to ride the tiger, you are on your own."

[grimer11]

"too much invested in aruba"....hilarious.....arubians posing as alabamans fool no one......the transparency reeks of guilty desperation, and a rotteness that sureely must permeate the whole island.

[moey]

sxmmer:

I agree everyone who was on the trip and connected to the trip, hotel workers, casino workers, everyone should have been interviewed immediately, not six weeks later.

Unfortunately, when this type of thing occurs the people involved lose all privacy and everything is fair game for the media, but all parties should be interviewed from family right on down the line. Its pretty late now and memories are so colored by all that has occurred. The first 48 hours are really crucial.

[ptk]

"Natalee did not go to Aruba to disappear."

Absolutely. I am tired of the crap coming out blaming the parents sending their kids to Aruba. Aruba claimed to be safe so Natalee's parented did expect her to be drugged, kidnpaped, raped, and murdered.

"There has to be some personal responsibility here"

Another asinine comment. They have personal responsibility to be drugged, raped, and murdered? Come on! How stupid are you?

[arubian]

"dont blame us for the shit we are"

[pkt]

"...a rotteness that sureely must permeate the whole island."

Absolutely.... they don't want this case to be resolved. Unresolved, they can still promote the lie of a safe travel destination. Resolved... then we know the true of drugs, murder, and corruption to cover it up. Avoid Aruba.

[moey]

ptk

Yes, everyone has a duty to be responsible. That does not have anything to do with being drugged, raped or murdered.

One should have a reasonable expectation of safety, but to go along with that a person has a duty to be responsible also.

That does not mean that Natalee asked for what happened or should have had whatever happened to her happen - it shouldn't happen to anyone.

[michele in bham]

Evil, you said

"The other "Adults" from MBHS are being restrained by the family PR person in Birmingham.
I have heard from one of them that stated they were told not to tell of any of their experiences on the trip by the Beth Twitty's sister."

That is not really true.

The family asked that the kids not talk to the media so that the focus would stay on Aruba, because after all, that is where Natalee was last seen and that is where LE bungled the investigation from day one.

However, Marcia Twitty (who isn't Beth's sister BTW) has no power to make those kids talk or not talk.

She is just a mom from Mountain Brook who worked in a PR position for Baptist Health.

That's it, that's all. She isn't powerful or very wealthy and has no power to make the kids be quiet or conversely, talk.

The real reason those kids will not talk is because of their own parents.

Now that's it's all come out about what kind of a trip this was and that the parents all signed waivers before hand acknowledging such, they are all just trying to lay low and ride out the Jerry Springeresqueness that has been exposed on the once great city of Mountain Brook.

[pkt]

"One should have a reasonable expectation of safety, but to go along with that a person has a duty to be responsible also."

Irrelevant. Natalee didn't go to a house party in Compton or Southeast DC or Baghdad. She went to Aruba, which is suppose to be safe. So she partied, drank alcohol, dirty danced...all within the law. She shouldn't expect to be raped or murdered for this.

[michele in bham]

Really PTK, the parents do bear some responsibility here. They knew it was a drinking junket because they signed off on the waiver stating such.

What thinking person sends their 18 year old innocent daughter off to a foreign country on a drinking and gambling junket?

I know she regrets it now, but lets be logical, what in the world were they thinking anyway???

[JustMe]

PTK:

Of course Natalee's parents did not expect her to meet with misfortune, but they were irresponsible enough to allow her to put herself in a position to do so.

How blissfully ignorant are you people?

THERE ARE BAD PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. WE SHOULD TRY TO AVOID THEM AND THE SITUATIONS THAT COULD POTENTIALLY PUT US IN CONTACT WITH THEM.

I have a 16 year-old daughter and I can tell you that it will be a cold day in hell before I EVER spend one penny of my money to send her on any sort of a trip as the MBHS graduates went on. Once she graduates from college and pays her own way there will not be too much I can do other than offer her my advice.

I am angry as hell at Joran Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoes who obviously have something to hide. But get a grip, people. If you don't look over your children then bad things are going to happen to them. Or is that not obvious?