Article Translation

Thanks to all the readers who wanted to help out, especially Sjoerd who provided the translation below. Tom and Red at Scared Monkeys are good guys and colleagues - but I'm wondering if someone didn't juiice up the translation on them just a little bit without their knowing, or perhaps just make it at least a little more inflammatory than it was. Either that, or mine was watered down.

Comments later, perhaps. I'm in a rush.

Tieners VS feesten vooral op Aruba

door onze correspondent Nina Jurna

ORANJESTAD - De op Aruba vermiste tiener Natalee Holloway wordt in de media neergezet als een keurig, onschuldig, conservatief meisje van achttien dat op schoolreisje ging. Geen meisje dat zich op Aruba zou uitleven. Maar is dat wel realistisch?

Arubanen weten het: maandelijks komen duizenden Amerikaanse jongeren naar het eiland voor seks, drugs en drank. Op Aruba mag je, in tegenstelling tot thuis in Amerika, al op je zestiende drinken en voor een jointje beland je niet in de gevangenis. ,,Hier doen ze alles wat ze thuis niet mogen en zeker niet kunnen'', vertelt Gijs van 't Hullenaar. Hij is manager van enkele bars en nachtclubs, zoals van Moomba Beach, een populaire strandtent pal naast het hotel Holiday Inn, waar Natalee Holloway logeerde.

Los

Van 't Hullenaar schetst een duidelijk beeld van de Amerikanen zoals hij ze tijdens zijn horecacarrière op het eiland heeft leren kennen. ,,Ze kennen geen grenzen. Ze gaan helemaal los. Ze drinken abnormaal veel, ze blowen en gebruiken vaak ook meer drugs. Ook de meiden. Die zijn misschien nog wel erger dan de jongens. Ze flirten met de barkeepers en komen vragen om gratis drank. 'Als we niets hoeven te betalen, zetten we je tent op stelten en maken we een leuk feestje' zeggen ze dan.''

In Amerika mogen jongeren vanaf hun 21e verjaardag alcohol drinken en tot die tijd komen ze ook geen bar binnen. Op Aruba gelden de veel soepeler Nederlandse regels. ,,De jonge Amerikanen komen niet gewoon gezellig de bar binnen om wat te drinken; nee, ze willen stomdronken worden. Soms leggen ze gewoon een pakketje dollars op de bar en zeggen: 'geef me iets voor dit geld waar ik zo snel mogelijk dronken van word'.''

In de zaak van de vermiste Amerikaanse studente Natalee Holloway werd Van 't Hullenaar ook verhoord. Tegenover de politie en ook in een uitzending van de Amerikaanse televisiezender Fox heeft hij de reputatie van de Amerikaanse jeugd niet onder stoelen of banken gestoken. ,,Heel wat Amerikaanse ouders weten waarschijnlijk niet wat hun kinderen hier op Aruba allemaal uitspoken.''

Hypocriet

Hij vindt het hypocriet nu net te doen alsof het er hier allemaal zo netjes aan toe gaat, hoe vreselijk het ook is dat het meisje wordt vermist. ,,Maar dat ze stomdronken uit de nachtclub kwam, dat hoor je wel hier op het eiland, maar lees je niet terug in de Amerikaanse pers. Natuurlijk zeggen alle ouders: zulke dingen doet mijn dochter niet. Maar dat zeiden mijn ouders vroeger ook over mij.''

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Above all US teenagers party on Aruba

by our correpondent Nina Jurna (Nederlands Dagblad)

ORANJESTAD- The missing teenager Natalee Hollway is being described in the media as a tidy, innocent, conservative eighteen year old girl on a graduation trip. Not a girl who would be a party animal on Aruba . But is this surely realistic?

Arubans know this: every month thousands of American juniors bcome to the island for sex, drugs and booze. On Aruba you are allowed, contrary to the situation at home in America , drink when you are sixteen and for (smoking) a joint you will not end up in jail. ”Here they do everything what they are not allowed to do at home and surely can’t do at home”, Gijs van 't Hullenaar says. As a manager he owns several bar and nightclubs, like Moomba Beach , a popular beach club right next to the Hollyday Inn where Natalee Holloway was staying.

Loose

Van ’t Hullenaar illustrates a clear image of the Americans as he has gotten to know them throughout his career on the island. “They have no limits. They’re going totally loose. They are drinking excessively, they smoke pot and often use other drugs as well. Likewise the girls. May be they are even worse than the boys. Thet flirt with bartenders and ask for free drinks. “We will cheer up this place and make a big party if we don’t have to pay”, they say.

In America juniors are permitted to have alcoholic beverages from age 21 and before that they cannot even visit a bar. On Aruba we have the much more flexible Dutch regulations. “The young Amricans don’t just just enter a bar to socialize and enjoy a drink; no, they want to become blind drunk. Sometimes they just drop a pacjage of dollars on the bar and say: “Give me something for this that makes me drunk fast”.

Van ’t Hullenaar was heard in the case of the missing American graduate Natalee Holloway. In talks with the police and also during a Fox interview he didn’t restrain in describing the reputation of the American youth. “A lot of American parents probably have no idea what their children are messing with here on Aruba ”.

Hypocrisy

He (Van ’t Hullenaar) thinks it is hypocritical to pretend that everything that happens here is going so decent and proper over here, not to mention the dreadful fact of the missing girl. “But that she left the nightclub ‘blind drunk’, yes that’s what we hear on the island, but you never read this in the American press. Ofcourse all parents say: “My daughter doesn’t do these things. But that is what my parents used to say about me too”.

Comments

[Spike]

Perhaps the writer needs to spend some time over here learning how things are. This article says the girl is a slut who came to get drunk and get laid. I think he's wrong, and leaves out the cowardly Dutch boy slipping her the GHB.

He also neglects to mention that notwithstanding the fact that some girls probably do come for a buzz and bang, THIS one has been missing for five weeks, and is presumably dead.

[harry]

I don't believe the Alabama teenage girls matched up well with this Dutchman's appraisal. After all, on Fox News they did state that they drank responsibly.

[bobup]

slander will get you nowhere

[TexasMom]

This is a classic diversion tactic employed when someone or something is about to be exposed. I would be very interested to know what a thorough background check on Herr Gijs Van't Hullenaar would bring out.

I notice the article indicates he owns a nightclub, "Moomba Beach,a popular beach club right next to the Hollyday Inn where Natalee Holloway was staying." Could it be that Herr Van't Hullenaar has some business contacts/shady friends in common with PVDS?

Let's turn a few more million candle-power spot lights on the situation and include this guy and his clubs in the glare. JMHO

[moosetracks]

Oh, I wish when Americans travel to foreign countries, they would use some sense and be respectful to the people and not make idiots of themselves. It casts a bad light on all Americans, these people think we are all idiots.

Now, just because this guy says all Americans act that way, doesn't mean Natalee did.

[patrick]

More blaming and slandering of the victim by yet another of the "America Haters". Typical.

[annie]

I don't understand what bearing this would have on her situation. First off, I do know that Americans in general can misbehave on foreign lands. I have seen it over and over in my travels abroad so that is not unusual. However, it is not true that all of them do this, and since this group was such a large group and knew they might get squealed on at home, I suspect they didn't overdo things. Logic tells me that these kids care about their reputations a lot, based on the interviews of her friends and from what we keep hearing about her. But to play devil's advocate, say she was stinking drunk. So what? That still does not warrant her being kept "hostage" or "killed". Let's face it, it has to be one or the other by now because if it was an accidental death and the VdS family were truly innocent, then her body would have been found long ago. No, this clearly speaks to me that there was definitely a crime involved and that is what is bugging these people to start spreading rumors about the victim and her behavior. As I said, I really don't entirely believe it (although I do think she was slipped something) and even if she was drunk, so what? It doesn't justify the outcome!

[BamiDad]

The article is an accurate depiction of American youths on holiday. Maybe if American society wasn't so spastic about alcohol, drugs and sex then their teenagers wouldn't go wild when they're somewhere where the rules are a little more relaxed....

[harry]

Annie:

I tend to agree. An Alabama teenage girl, from an affluent, religious community, would have to be slipped something in order to become commode-hugging drunk in Aruba.

[Sarah]

I doubt Herr Van't Hullenaar has much credibility himself.. if he owns a club.. he only sees that side of the tourists anyway. I imagine Joran is one of his best customers. Of course he is gonna call Natalee a slut.. he has to back up Joran's story that she was drunk and doing drugs.

[BamiDad]

Harry, everyone knows that churchgirls are the horniest ones...

[clone]

Why can't we call a spade a spade?!

American teens go to places like Aruba to do one thing... PARTY! That almost always involves alcohol of some kind. See Spring Break of DVD.

I often see teenage girls dressed like tramps, showing their figures and way too much skin. These girls are advertising their sexuality and should not be suprised is someone want to to buy it!

It DOES NOT mean Natalie is to blame or even that she acted in the manner described... but those who do act as such... share in the responsibility of these situations!

Personally, to achieve the grades and positioning in school that Natalie did would lend us to believe she was an angel at home. One would be hard pressed to achieve while leadind a sordid life at the same time. However, all that time studying does lead to a tendency to overdo it during the "celebration".

The question that needs to be addressed once this sad and sick story is resolved is whether or not we all are to blame for allowing MTV and other influencial institutions (music, tv, movies) to teach our children that leading sordid lives is acceptable. And before anyone thinks of defending such, thinking that America still has morals... watch reality tv!

You see, a grass lawn in which weeds are allowed to flourish will soon cease to have grass and neither be a lawn as well!

See, a horse really is a horse... of course and that article was no lie in its portrayal of American partiers.

*hangs head in shame*

[Spike]

BamiDad... you expecting me to believe you call vacations "holiday" in Alabama? How about convincing me you're from the Southland, and you have a Banjo on your knee?

Sure, kids in the "girls behaving badly" Spring Break videos are sluts... they're also probably professionals, hookers or strippers.

As for socializing my kid to sex, drugs and alcohol so she is better prepared for her future "holidays" overseas, I'll take my chances and just teach her to watch out for guys who think they're slick, and to get their drinks with the caps on.

Joran's more than likely a rapist. Not too many women out there looking for the rape/murder fantasy to make her holiday.

[Lawrence Lagman]

Dan,

After reading the most recent post on your site, I think we should request the State Department to consider issuing a travel advisory as to the safety to US citizens considering visiting Aruba?

These folks are nuts! Are they wanting cut their economic throats? They are definitely providing us with the justification to NOT to go to Aruba for any reason. They must not want their standard of living to improve.

At this time, I only want to find Natalee Holloway and ease her parent’s stress. I feel that Joran and his father are definitely involved up their necks. They know something about what happen to her. I think there must be some element, criminal or political, that has made the flow of information dry up. There is a reward being offered. Maybe the US Government could offer some type of witness protection for anyone providing information to the conviction of the parties involved. This is only a suggestion.

Lawrence Lagman

[BamiDad]

I never said that I am from the South...

[harry]

Right on, Sarah! How can we trust these nightclub owners? I noticed the article did not mention how the nightclub owners refrain from serving these underage revelers. Did you notice, also, that they fail to mention how they try so hard to evict the dug dealers from their establishments? Besides, these posts attests that the Dutch are less than truthful. Truly, the Alabama teenage girls never got involved in any of what the Dutchman is spewing on about. They drank and conducted themselves repsonsibly. To say otherwise would be unbecoming of a gentleman!

[Clone]

I never said that I am from the South...

Posted by: BamiDad | July 6, 2005 07:02 PM

UM... so you were not also implying by your screen name that you had a connection to "bami" or "bama" or Alabmana?

Um... looks like poo, smells like poo, is it poo bro?

[Missing the point]

You folks are missing the point. It does NOT MATTER whether Natalee was blindly drunk or not.

-Yes, sometimes even children from religious families who seem "proper" at home slip up and get drunk on vacation

-No, Americans are NOT the only teenagers who get blindly drunk. I'm laughing my head off at the Aruban or European who thinks that this is characteristic of only Americans. This is the biggest hypocrisy of all. I've seen how Euro-teens do the same thing.

Back to the point, whether or not she was blindly drunk DOES NOT mean that she deserved whatever fate has befallen her. A mother is without a daughter, a daughter who, by all accounts, (whether or not she wasn't quite as "innocent" as Fox or the press or her friends are making her out to be) was a very decent person with a promising future. No I don't necessarily believe what Fox says. But I don't *CARE* what Fox says!

A mother is without a daughter! And the daughter was likely a victim of a horrible crime, whether it be rape and murder, or kidnapping.

THAT is the point. Let's stay with it, people.

[tracker]

Re: Herr Van ’t Hullenaar.

Classic. Blame the victim, and her country. Seconded by BamiDad. "It was her fault." What a crock.

It is repulsive.

Where is Natalee Holloway?

What happened to her?

And...Don't blame her, or her family, for your reprehensible 'country,' the actions of your citizens and the failure of your 'polis.'

[BamiDad]

Tracker, I did not say that it was Natalee's fault. I do however believe that it is ridiculous that the US media portrays her as some f*cking virgin holy saint, because she probably isn't/wasn't.

[Chrystal]

I agree with Annie. Anyway if this guy is so appalled by drinking and having fun, why have clubs like Carlos and Charlies - that's how they make their money. What about the guys, they don't drink and have fun, or is the old double standard still alive. The bottom line is even if she was drinking, dancing and having a good old time, it does not mean she is open season for hunters. It is not just American teens and twenty year olds who go out and party either. Maybe Aruba should go "dry" and only allow in tourists who wear veils.

[Chrystal]

I agree with Annie. Anyway if this guy is so appalled by drinking and having fun, why have clubs like Carlos and Charlies - that's how they make their money. What about the guys, they don't drink and have fun, or is the old double standard still alive. The bottom line is even if she was drinking, dancing and having a good old time, it does not mean she is open season for hunters. It is not just American teens and twenty year olds who go out and party either. Maybe Aruba should go "dry" and only allow in tourists who wear veils.

[bamawings]

The fact that other girls get drunk and do these things does not mean that Natalee did. Even if she did, that is not relevant to this situation. This article is like saying that she got drunk and so whatever happened to her was what she deserved. All the parents and others have said is that this behavior is not characteristic of her. She may have suddenly experienced her freedom and gotten a little wild and crazy-does that mean these guys get to kill her and get a way with it. If she got drunk or overdosed, why don't they just tell the police that and tell them where her body is so that they can go it and her mother can come home and leave Aruba alone. If she overdosed on either alcohol or drugs, then that could be determined from an autopsy and the boys would be freed unless they gave her the drugs which might be hard to prove. Why continue to lie and cover up if that is the case? This makes no sense. There is more to this than meets the eye. By the way, I hope that every parent of a teenager in the US reads that article and puts a stop to teenagers traveling to Aruba. It is kind of stupid for them to put this article out there for parents to see.
As this drags on, I am more and more convinced that they gave her a date rape drug, they all raped her and when she resisted or threatened to turn them in, they killed her. I don't think that this happened on the beach either. It appears that if you need an alibi, those are easy to come by in Aruba. The fisherman testified that they did not see anyone on the beach and that was sufficient to release these boys. They did not see Joran and Natalee either so maybe they were all lying. It was pretty dark on that beach so I don't see how the failure to see the boys means they were not there. However, if it does, then wouldn't the fisherman have seen the persons who came and got her after Joran supposedly left. They did not notice someone dragging a body off the beach? The fisherman story sounds fishy to me. Also, why would Steve Croes voluntarily go to the police to lie for someone that he says he did not know? Would that not subject him to possible criminal charges (except lying to police does not appear to be a crime in Aruba)? He was being a good citizen by voluntarily going to the police to lie. Give me a break. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. I think in view of all this outrageous stuff the Hooloway/Twittys have shown remarkable reserve.

[annie]

Exactly my point in my earlier post, Missing the point. I completely agree with you. It simply doesn't matter whether she drank or not. What matters is that she is missing and possibly dead. The facts around her disappearance and fate need to be revealed and justice given.

[rajir]

It is her last night there. She packs all of her bags,even leaves her purse and her cash in her hotel room.

She goes to the wildest, craziest bar on the island. The one who's slogan is "Anything goes!" The place where waiters and waitresses pour yard long alcoholic drinks down the open throats of seated young girls.

She knows she could party all night, she knows she won't have to be even sober enough to pack in the morning.

However, I'm thinking because she was such a good student (straight A's they say) that she went there and just drank bottled water. Good students never, ever party.

[laydeecas]

I know that many of you feel very strongly towards NH, and I totally understand. BUT we can't be naive either. I have no doubts that she may have had tooo much to drink. Of course a bunch of high school students are going to claim they drank responsibly. And given the atmosphere of an exotic location, all the alcohol you can drink, and plenty of good looking people, things are bound to happen. So I don't really think that she was being a "responsible drinker" or anything close to that.
I DO, however, feel there is NO excuse for slipping anything into anyone's drink or taking advantage of a young girl who is under the influence. It's disgusting and trashy no matter which country or island you come from. So if Joran is guilty, whether it be accidental or otherwise, I just wish he'd come clean so this poor girl's family could have some peace and the same for Anita VDS. Because regardless of who did what, it affects both family's tremendously.

[BamiDad]

I think those 2 black bastards ate her!! They look like real cannibals!! We should gather an Alabama posse and go to Aruba to lynch those fucking niggers!! How dare they frame a white man?

BOYCOT ARUBA!!!!

[Yolande]

Alcohol and drugs could be relevant if Natalee was sick of the combination and lost her consciousness and drowned .. while she was all by herself at the beach.

[sockettoomey]

I went to New Orleans when I graduated from college and spent $750 25 years ago. $400 on booze and $350 on my hotel. Who needs food? I was a sraight A straight laced student as well. Big deal 18 year olds are suppose to stretch their limits. They just shouldn't end up dead

[BamiDad]

I bet those Kalpoe criminals force-fed her the alcohol so that they could flambe her!!! Those fucking man-eaters!!! Hang 'em!!

[grimer11]

murderous SCUM.

[tracker]

BamiDad = troll

To the aruban polis & the 'happy island:'

1) Where is Natalee Holloway?

2) What happened to her?

3) Was a crime committed when she disappeared?

[Katie]

What the hell does drinking and taking drugs have to do with kidnapping, rape and murder?

And I'm certainly not suggesting that Natalee was drinking excessively or taking drugs. And I certainly wouldn't judge her if she had done those things. IF she had done those things it still DOES NOT entitle anyone to do harm to her.

If she did willingly get into that car with those despecable pigs, I certainly wouldn't judge her for that either. When I was her age I was a lot more trusting then I am now and did things that I would never do now. The only differnence between me and Natalee Holloway is that I ended up being more fortunate.

[grimer11]

arubians posing as alabamans fool no one......the transparency reeks of guilty desperation, and a rotteness that surely must permeate the whole island.

[grimer11]

arubians posing as alabamans fool no one......the transparency reeks of guilty desperation, and a rotteness that sureely must permeate the whole island.

[Canadian Girl]

Good job buddy!!!!!

Is this part of your new advertising campaign???

I'm sure American parents are reading this and helping their teens plan their HS grad trip for next year...to anywhere but Aruba.

Parents with teenager's such as myself who take a family vacation once a Year can now answer the question; would Aruba be a good place? AHHHHH No!

So some guy who never even saw Natalee felt the need to come out from his seedy bar and tell us that all teenagers from the US are druggies and sluts who get blind drunk.

This guy is a genius...must have a degree in marketing and advertising!!!!!!

[covered by grace]

I'm sitting here in Chicago reading comments like these for the 3rd week in a row. and really, folks, I'm out here because this is a horrible situation and I'm looking for objective information...not rumors, lies, theories or mudslinging. toward that end, Dan Riehl (and a handful of others) have been great, reporting only what seems to be certifiable through reliable sources.

my point/request: why don't the rest of you give it a rest and simply pray for Natalee, her family, the police, the search teams, FBI, and even the VDS and Kalpoe boys and families? y'know, good people sometimes end up in bad situations, either out of stupidity or ignorance. and where there are "bad" people, there are circumstances - often out of their direct control - that contributed to their waywardness. what makes any of us - or them - any better or worse than another?!?!

as Jesus said, he who is without sin, throw the first stone. on that measure, my hands are empty, thanks.

-Robert Toal, Chicago, IL, USA

"do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." :: romans 12.21

[michele in bham]

Hey again Harry. JUst wanted to let you know that Mountain brook is not a religious conservative community at all.

It's slightly liberal in it's leanings, politically and religiously.

It was one of the few white towns in Alabama that you could drive through and see a plethora of "Vote for John Kerry" signs.

The conservative religious students of the class of 2005 at MBHS didn't go on the Aruba trip because it was well known to be a party trip.

The churches in the area are mainline old type with the exception of a few.

Mountain Brook Bible Church is conservative
and Mountain Brook Community church is somewhat conservative compared to the mainline churches there in Mountain Brook that are ok with gay marriage and women preachers.

Mountain Brook Community Church is new on the scene.

So in fact, Mountain Brook is not conservative or very religious at all.

It's more liberal and country club with a few pockets of conservative Christians here and there, but not many.

[sleuth]

Bamidad is an obvious troll. Hey Dan, we got a new troll!

Keep praying for this to be over soon, by the finding of Natalee. And then let the chips fall where they may for Aruba.

[RstJ]

Anyone else find it strange that Carlos and Charlie's, the island's wildest place, closes at 1am? Sounds a little early to me.

Anybody from down there know when it *really* closes?

[Yolande]

Katie, where do you see proof of kidnapping, rape and murder?

[rajir]

To Bamawings...

Just describing someone's past or their behaviour is not an immediate inference by the person giving that description that the person they are describing "deserved to die" for it.

For example, how is it relevant that she was a good student and made straight A's. Following your logic saying that means you are saying that because she was a good student and made straight A's she deserved to die. Huh?

It is just dumbfounding to think that people don't want the whole story. It is difficult to fathom that anyone would draw the conclusion that if you wanted to gain some insight about her condition at the time she left the bar (or how much she drank while she was there) that would mean that you were implying, that if she had been blind staggering drunk and you reported that condition, you would be saying that she deserved to die. That makes no sense.

I think this kind of logic got its start in discussions about alleged rape victims. Women's rights groups (well meaning, but overzealous) somehow have perpetuated the notion that nothing can ever be mentioned about the alleged victim, because in no way could any woman have been in any way at fault. Thank goodness for a judge in the Kobe Bryant matter, who felt otherwise and allowed in evidence, which showed the alleged victim to be someone making a false report in order for financial gain.

Yes, Natalie was probably drunk as a skunk and also a straight A student. She didn't deserve to die for either characteristic. However, if she were drunk, she might have contributed to her own death, if later she "threw up" and was asphyxiated on her own vomit. Would being drunk mean she "deserved" that fate? No. But, it might explain it.

[grimer11]

anyone care to comment on the disgusting hand signals as shown by urine and his gaggle of 3rd world pimps in photo after photo?......what a subculture of shit and garbage.

[michele in bham]

To covered by Grace, you are right that Jesus said to the men who caught the woman in adultery that those among them without sin should cast the first stone.

But do you remember what he told the woman?

"Go and sin no more."

1 Corinthians 2:15  But he that is spiritual judgeth all things...

People are just discussing all aspects of the trip and what they know about what happened.

It's not a crime to do that.

[andy]

We're approaching the end of the end - yes, some americans do misbehave, but so do other nationalities too. Natalee may have been tipsy; but that's not a reason to execute her. It's obvious to the world now what Aruab has done.

[stargazer]

I think that people who want to sit and pretend any of the group from alabama went to aruba for anything other then to have a good time are lying to themselves. They worked hard, graduated, were 18, and deserved to have fun. It isnt like they went there to conduct a bible study. Im sure some did get drunk.
But SO WHAT? It doesnt matter to me if they were all drunk and falling over, which by all accounts they werent. But even if they were, does that in anyway mean Natalee deserved this? I dont think so. If anything it only proves that it is possible she was taken advantage of because she was not used to the party lifestyle. She is still missing, and most likely a victim of a horrible crime. Someone, somewhere saw or heard something. It is too bad no one wants to do the right thing, and help send Natalee home.

[mona]

Hey if the alcohol dont work make sure the islanders provide the ecstacy...the Netherlands needs to export that shit somewhere.....and what better place than where naive american tourists are .....I still say follow the drugs and you find the killer....dealers dont like to go to jail for murder....oh but perhaps you cant be arrested for dealing drugs in Aruba..or slipping drugs in womens drinks ...what exactly can you be arrested for in aruba aside from being black?

[michele in bham]

The deal about not discussing the drinking is because of where the kids are from and who their parents are.

You are talking about a lot of movers and shakers that don't want people to know they were stupid enough to send their kids on an anything goes hedonist trip to Aruba that was WELL known in the school and community as being a "party trip."

[Dutchy]

Yolande you are taking the words right out of my keyboard.

But for now people I do wish you all a good night. Tommorow is another day for speculation and mudslinging towards eachother...

Voor de Nederlanders/Arubanen: slaap lekker en maak je niet al te druk over de opmerkingen van sommige mensen hier (ze weten niet beter). Het leven is daarvoor te kort. So Enjoy!

Gr.

Dutchy

[grimer11]

they didn't know the pile of shit they were dropping their kids into.