Update: 4 PM

As Fox is now reporting, sources on the island recently informed me that there was a problem with a flight from Curacao to Aruba, causing a delay in an extension hearing for three of the boys held.

There is unconfirmed speculation on the ground at this time that one, or possibly two of the suspects could be released after that hearing - with more arrests coming tonight, or tomorrow.

Comments

[coolguy]

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF WHOOPI GOLDBERG HAS EYEBROWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[websleuth2]

Good post above by "professor" about sociopaths.

Here is a link to the DSM IV on antisocial personality disorder and a discussion of sociopaths

http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~mcafee/Bin/sb.html

[Kelli]

Jack,
Comparing a missing person in Aruba to one in the U.S is like comparing a watermelon to a peanut as far as the search area,lol...Geesh...

[anonymous]

oh shut up kelli you don't even know anything about the terrain of any of the caribbean islands. Your own FBI is there and they still can't find the girl so put a sock in it because you sound stupid

[fokje]

NevadaMom wrote: "Makes you scared to go to Aruba unless you are willing to bring your own possee and justice system down there."

Makes me almost scared to go the US; being on the wrong place at the wrong time and before you know what actually has happened the media has jumped on the place, start investigations by themselfs, all kinds of pseudo-psychologists, analysts, whatever is jumping on screen, suggestive reports and the folks want to see you hung, no matter if you are really guilty or not. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason why family VdS lied in the beginning; the whole case is harming the family terribly, even when they are not guilty. It might be daddy suspected this media circus and wanted to avoid this at all costs.
Let me be clear; if they are really guilty I hope they dissapear for a long time in prison, but if it's not the case... their life is ruined and nobody cares.
I'm sure the media has already a big part in the way how judicial acted; I've never seen such in holland this way and it supposed to be the same system.

[K.Jeanne]

A daughter of Illinois Senator Charles Percy was killed in their home near Chicago in the mid 60's. That was NEVER solved. Unfortunately it does happen. Here is the website about that crime: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/217714p-187324c.html

[susan]

One more time Jack. Over 90% of all missing children are abducted by their non custodial parent. Look it up. You are only posting a list of missing kids. Does it say who they saw the child with last? These kids weren't abducted. they didn't come home from a visit with their non custodial parent. We aren't hunting for their bodies in the ocean after rumors of date rape drugs.
Obviously you don't live in the US.
18 year olds don't go to 'just a club' like Carlos and Charlies. That's why they go to Aruba. It's not available here. Too bad ... too sad that this happened.
Don't try to diminish this problem by comparing it to kids taken by non custodial parents. It just aint the same. I am sorry that this happened. Yes, Aruba is in the media. Yes, bad/sad things happen absolutely everywhere.
My point was and is, that the police didn't do a good job. And that's why I'll never go there. (Like anyone there cares anyway) Other people will visit Aruba, and someday this will be a memory. And as I said, my kids will never go there either.

[fokje]

susan, I guess you were never intended to go to aruba in the first place. :-)

[Jack]

@kelli

And you think there's just ONE unsolved missing case in the USA?

Alabama: http://www.dps.state.al.us/public/abi/system/missing/children.asp

http://www.dps.state.al.us/public/abi/system/missing/adults.asp

New York:

http://criminaljustice.state.ny.us/missing/alpha1.htm
http://criminaljustice.state.ny.us/missing/alpha2.htm
http://criminaljustice.state.ny.us/missing/alpha3.htm
http://criminaljustice.state.ny.us/missing/alpha4.htm

Just a few examples....

[goldie]

Susan you make absolutely no sense. The US is one of the most corrupt places in the world.If you expect people to believe that date rape drugs and sexual promiscuity don't occur in the US then you are obviously a blind idiot. Your own president's kids and I'm talking about the current one were arrested for underage drinking and i'm quite sure they were not in ARUBA. Most of you college kids are so busy binge drinking they don't even remember what day it is. All of you are corrupt. I'm glad you do not want to visit Aruba.That island does not need the likes of you and you backward ideas and conceptions.

[Mary]

Susan...You can not argue with a wall. They cannot not hear you. Best thing for them is to simply ignore. They will go away.
USA ....Best country in the world.!!

[John]

PEE In SE Asia:
Well, it would seem that the Aruban system doesn't fare any better than the US system if not incacerating innocent people is the criterion. Weren't the first two arrested later released? If it turns out that the 5 they have now turn out to be convicted, that would mean that they're batting .714, which would be great in baseball, but not so inspiring if you're facing the authority of the court.

John

[Pearl]

SUSAN, please stay were you are, It's not about Aruba or the U.S is about Natalee. If you dont wont to come here, than STAY WERE YOU ARE. And tell you 18 year child that please dont go out with stangers.

[Klaas]

Wow, how funny to see all the Americans think they all know it so well and think they are the best. And ofcourse, this crime would already have been solved in the great United States of bloody America. Let me guess, some guy, probably a minority, would have been targeted as the main suspect in the media, the police would have created some evidence around him, some jury full of morons would have said the guy was guilty and the judge would have sentenced him to death. Voila, everybody happy. The parents of the victim would be happy, the people would be happy, because hey, after all, FOX NEWS said this guy did it, and they can't be wrong now, can they? And if, after a few years, someone else would confess he had commited the crime, and the guy that was put to death wasn't the offender of the crime after all, nobody would give a shit.

Now wait, in The Kingdom of The Netherlands, of which Aruba is part, we have a real, honest, legal system (as in most parts of Europe actually). A suspect isn't guilty, until he is proven so and there are courts of appeal, so other judges can look at a case and then decide whether someone is guilty or not. This ofcourse doesn't happen all the time, just in the cases where it's really necessary to have some other experts look on the case. Suspects aren't blamed in the media, because the media are pretty much objective (well, at least compared to American media) about facts, and don't try to blame someone and make everyone believe he is the real offender.

It is the American media, and the people being influenced by it, that makes sick. Just wait and see what happens, don't have your opinions ready. And don't think you are in some way better than the rest of the world, and especially Aruba (or The Kingdom of The Netherlands).

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

re TROLLS

I inquired of DAN and got this reply

------------------
"...they all came from the folllowing two IP's. Given their posts, I've no justification to protect them.

Thanks,

Dan

80.60.125.214

71.96.191.237

--------------------------

80.60.125.214

speed planet in Holland allows web server hosting on a dsl connection, though check for open ports, it could be a proxy:

http://ip503c7dd6.speed.planet.nl/links.asp

71.96.191.237 is vorizon, probably a dial up connection in dallas fort worth

pool-71-96-191-237.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net

Isn't the internet fun.

Posted by: Ispy | June 24, 2005 05:32 PM

[goldie]

Well put Klaas

[BETJE]

Heel goed klaas.

[Jack]

"Over 90% of all missing children are abducted by their non custodial parent"

Yeah right.

Fact is there MANY unsolved missing cases in the USA and I don't think the Natalee Holloway is a unique case.

"18 year olds don't go to 'just a club' like Carlos and Charlies. That's why they go to Aruba. It's not available here. Too bad ... too sad that this happened."

Are you serious? 18-year olds love to party. Go to LA, NY, Miami, etc. It's normal. Carlos and Charlie's is very touristic place.

The Aruban police is doing a GREAT job according to the FBI, according to Natalee's family and according to that team from Texas.
If you don't go to Aruba, just because this case hasn't been solved yet = HYPOCRITE.
There's no reason to conclude the Aruban police is not doing a good job. Even in the country with the best police teams, are unsolved missing cases.

And Aruba is SAFE. Safer than the place where Natalee comes from.

[K.Jeanne]

The unfortunate disapperance of Natalee Holloway has created a lot of sluethers. There is a group online still trying to solve the Valerie Percy murder that I recently mentioned here. The website for the group might be of interest to some. http://websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-12874

I certainly found it so...I was living outside Chicago at the time, and have always been saddened by that unsolved crime.

I am sorry if this is not appropriate for this forum just now, but I thought it might distract some of the blame casting about each other's country. I find it a total waste of time and space. Everyone is right and everyone is wrong. No winners.

[ralf]

Ah, how nice to see that people of two countries bond together in this moment of crisis.

Now back to watching America's Most Wanted, the commercial is over.

[housemouse]

Crime happens because of criminals. Place in the world matters not to them. Aruba is not to be blamed, friends, so quit that nonsense.

What is interesting is the difference betweeen the two legal systems, and how it plays out. We will not be able to judge that until it is all over. In the meantime, let us pray for Natalee and her family.

[WK]

Some biographical information about PVDS from a Dutch newspaper internetsite (www.ad.nl, "Van magistraat tot verdachte van moord"):
- he was born in The Netherlands, lived there from his birth in 1952 to 1993;
- he became a lawyer; he was known as a hardliner, a person also that never gives up;
- in 1993 he went with his family (wife and two sons Joran and Valentijn) to Aruba and worked there as a juridical employee for the State; on Aruba a third son is born: Sebastiaan;
- later (when?) he became assistent of the General Prosecutioner on Aruba;
- in 2003 (or 2002?) he started a training for judge, still on Aruba; from March 2004 to March 2005 he followed the judgetraining in The Netherlands; but he seems to have failed (why??); back on Aruba in March 2005 he doesn't continue his training.
Question: is it right that something was going wrong with PVDS's career? If yes: what exactly was going wrong with PVDS? Was he frustrated because he failed in his wish of being a judge or even the possible loss of his job at the State-department? Did he have a moneyproblem?
In the beginning I couldn't imagine that PVDS did something criminal in the case of Natalee other than protecting his criminal son. But now I'm a little in doubt.

[Professor]

I can see how the Arubans might feel defensive when their judicial system is criticized. By why they would stick up for a slime ball like Joran van der Sloot is beyond me. By the way, the web link to the Profile of the Sociopath was a good one. It included one characteristic I missed.

Likes to live on the "edge." Gambling and sexual promiscuity are common among sociopaths. Hmm. Who does that sound like.

Also note, it is common among sociopaths to have a history of cruelty toward children or animals. We know that Joran had a history of cruelty toward his younger brother, but what about animals? The Humane Society of the United States once released the quote, "Not all animal abusers turn out to be serial killers, but virtuall ALL serial killers have some history of animal abuse."
I'm not saying JVDS is a serial killer, but the same applies to all sociopaths. It would be interesting to track that one down. Aruba has an impressive web site for its Humane Society. Maybe someone there knows (if they're talking).

[bamawings]

We shall see whether the police come up with anything or not. However, it does almost look like this investigation has been designed not to find out what happened. The delay in searching places and letting the suspects go. I do think that US would have pursued this nore quickly. If Natalee were alive somewhere, the lack of speed in investigating this case probably would have resulted in her death or the trail being so cold they could not find her. It does not even look like they were looking for her any more. I think that there have been some instances in this story where they did not proceed in the way that they should. That makes me uncomfortable in going to ARuba. Is there a tendency to cover up crime

[callie]

To Susan -
I am a proud american and I do believe the police in Aruba made a HUGE mistake letting those 3 boys go in the beginning...but I do have to say that I also have complete respect for their police in not trying this case in the press. Let's face it, obviously every one of us on here is hungry for information about this case...but it is so much better FOR THE CASE when the police keep the facts to themselves. We are so used to knowing so many details from the press that we just expect it now. It is NOT our right to know what the police in Aruba know. We will find out in due time. And the more professional they handle the case - the better chance we have of justice being served.
Also - since when did all crimes get solved in the USA? My husband is a cop in a large city...trust me...you don't even hear about most crimes/murders that are committed.

[Jack]

I think PVS is a judge. From what I have read, he's a surrogate judge.
Someone (CBS News?) asked Anita van der S. whether she thinks her husband is innocent or not.
Her reaction: "APfffffffff.....of course. Of course he's innocent. He's a JUDGE".

I don't know....:(

[bullshit]

I am a aruban studying in america im 18 in college in philly i can get into clubs and loads of underage people do, its called fake ids something i learned from my stay there, in addition loads of kids get elder peple to buy booze for them so done be thinking they dont get alcohol for f* sake they get drugs in the us if they want to, (not saying they cant get it in aua) but the fact is the US isnt an better so stop thinking that the US is like the holy sanctuary where nothing goes wrg i mean common ur president lied to u and went to war on false pretences....bottom line stop talking sh** about aruba every country has its problems, she was lost in aruba LET US HANDLE IT but we do things another way different from that of the US so stop critisizing...mistakes have been made i agree but they are in the past let them go u guy do ur prayers and let us handle it the way we can... just like we let you guys handle ur own issues that go on in ur borders....you dont see castro telling u how to handle the immigrants

[Mt. Brook Mom]

When Natalee first came up missing..and I saw the photo's of Joran my immediate thoughts were that this kid likes money, sex, power, control, is a gambler..

What it reminded me of was a professional salesman
Someone who would use the minimize profit, maximize loss.

Now..it is a fact that Natalee went missing on
the last night of her trip to Aruba...

Joran was determined to get to Carlos and Charlies that night...I think because he already had a meditated plan.

In observing Natalee..I truly believe she would be worth MUCH more to the right parties or individuals alive as compared to value lost if
dead.

I think that the salesmans approach would have
been to pay a gambling debt with her, swap for drugs, or money.

Have the Van Der Sloots bank accounts been checked out?

Do they have foreign bank accounts?

I just still don't think that Joran killed Natalee.

Also too, I have this other thought...that
I can't help but wonder what sodium pentathol
would do here...

I mean if these guys are holding out from the police, and know that without a body, without
cofession that most likely there is no case...in the end they will all be set free and we will
see no justice in the case.

Do not take what I am about to say next literally.
But I have thought wow, lets send in the Alabama National Guard and occupy the island until justice is done in this case. This is because evidence and this case was botched in the first two weeks, possibly making allllllll of the work on this case counterproductive.

I DO NOT LIKE THE WAY THAT THE ARUBIAN GOVERNMENT HAS HANDLED THE INVESTIGATION OF THIS CASE.

[Jack]

"Whatever the outcome of law enforcement's involvement with van der Sloot, it's clear that Aruban and Dutch authorities have been relentlessly focused on finding Holloway. The sheer number of sites combed by police, the speed of the initial arrests, and now the extended custody of the most recent set of suspects, all indicate that a small island, unaccustomed to murder, is doing its level best to resolve the matter with the resources it has, and when those resources are lacking, calling in more." --- Matt Hayes

Read more:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160405,00.html

[tideroller]

The Aruban defenders like Pearl never cease to amaze me. They practically scream about how "safe" their island is and then condemn a poor, unfortunate young lady who made the mistake of leaving with one of their own? This local boy just happened to be the son of a local justice official? Come on now, Get your act together. Either the island is "safe", and its locals are "safe" to know, or the island isn't "safe" and the local are not "safe" to know. Make up your mind. You can't have it both ways. Anyway, all first hand testimony indicates that she may not have left with him totally willingly, anyway. Some people just don't want to accept the truth. BTW, here in the States we are quite aware of the shortcomings (and wonders, as well) of our country. Maybe, just maybe, when we vacation, we want to feel safer. Aruba claims to be safe, we don't. Therefore the burden is on Aruba to live up to its claim. And I do say, that if any country wants our American tourist dollars then they had better show that we will be protected in their country. WE have every right to expect and demand that.

[junior]

the government has been trying to apease the US public throughout this whole entire situation they have bent so many rules and changed everybodies lives to try to assist and give comfort to the US,aruba is not used to such situations and so we have tried our best, gotten help from holland and our neighbors and are working like crazy to sort it out....if the US keeps pushing ur going to have one very pissed of island because ur not hurtign the convicts, the government or the police ur hurting the islandd people and the way we live so please chill aight because its not the island fault

[Dublin]

Dee, in response to your earlier question about a transcript of Greta's interview with the Van Der Sloot's. There is a partial transcript posted on the fox site:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html

[callie]

Give me a break. There is no such thing as a perfectly safe place to travel or live. Every country has their shortcomings. What happened to Natalee is TERRIBLE and makes you think twice about traveling ANYWHERE, but you can't blame Aruba just because of a few bad guys.

[to-tideroller]

The kid was not arubian he was dutch he came to aruba after he was born, so its like me an aruban comming to the states...does that make me american and does my actions reflect on your whole country? no! ur arguement is weak one person does not say anyhting about a country

[WK]

It's a little bit amazing that so many Americans express their mistrust in the Aruban/Dutch juridical system and in the efforts of the jurical authorities.
The only thing I can say by now about it that in the Dutch jurical system it's common that very little is known about the progress of the investigations. And that the very most crimes against life in The Netherlands are eventually being solved. So let's wait and see.

[Jack]

"Come on now, Get your act together. Either the island is "safe", and its locals are "safe" to know, or the island isn't "safe" and the local are not "safe" to know. Make up your mind. You can't have it both ways."

It depends on what your definition of "safe" is.
Aruba is safer than the US, it's the safest country in the Carribean, it's not a banana republic, the people there are not corrupt.

Yeah...crime exists. Everywhere. Oh...and I must disappoint you: even in the US of the A.

"And I do say, that if any country wants our American tourist dollars then they had better show that we will be protected in their country. WE have every right to expect and demand that."

I think that's the American attitude that MANY non-Americans can't stand. "O I am American, I am rich, you better give us what I demand". If you want to go to a "safe" place, you should go to the Moon.

[Jack]

"The only thing I can say by now about it that in the Dutch jurical system it's common that very little is known about the progress of the investigations."

YEP. But many people still don't understand that. :(
Maybe in the US, no news, no daily press conferences = no progress. But that's not the case in the Netherlands.

When the investigation is FINISHED, the authorities will give us/the judge more details, but now they will only say: "At this point, we can only say...", "no comment, in the interest of the investigation", etc.

So we don't know whether the police is doing a good job or not.

But according to the FBI and Natalee's family the Aruban police is doing a "very adequate" job, so I don't know why many people call the Arubans incompetent.

[Yolande]

Jack, because Americans always do things bigger and better?

[tidderoller]

I think the whole world knows by now that JVDS is a Dutch national. He is also a local resident. You notice, I did not say a local native. So, I stand by what I said, either the island and its locals are "safe" or they aren't. So don't condemn the girl for having left (apparently having been slipped a drug, BTW) with one of your leading local residents. The island may be safer than some places. But it's not living up to its claims. If it doesn't then it should change its advertising claims.

[gallowaygirl]

to the arubian poster -

Are you stating that Joran did not have Arubian citizenship or residence status?

And btw, to answer your question. America is a nation of immigrants...naturalized or native born....doesn't make a difference. And the actions of either type of American does reflect on America, most of the time positively, sometimes not. So sorry...ya can't use the 'he's not one of ours' argument.

[Annastasia]

Susan... do not worry, all is fine.
You have just as much right as anyone to express your opinions without being bashed.

Just ignore and do not respond anymore.

On another note.

I hope that Natalee is found soon. So mom can accept the fate of her if she is dead and put an end to it. I wish that she could be found alive.
:O)

[Media Freak]

Jack,

If you read the blog from the beginning, you should have noticed that everyone make their judgement/opinion based on what the media are reporting.... A few weeks ago the two security guys were almost convicted without a trial and many stories have been created.

The lack of information is considered by the media as lack of progress and incompetent.

Last week the International Police Association's president in New Jersey sent a letter to the American Media to complaint how they were presenting the story and blaming local authorities who combined with the FBI and Dutch investigators were handling the case. He stated that the authorities were investigating based on their laws and guidelines, which have been proving effective for years before the creation of the American laws.

Last night the director and founder of the Texas Search Team also requested the media to stop with their negativism and insisted the local authorities are trained professional and a very modern corp.

Sadly, no media published these.

So, on this site you cannot blame any one for their views... it's just how they percept things that the media are presenting.

[AnObserver]

Jack & the rest of you with a real short memory...
Especially all of you "Dutch" citizens: Lest you be reminded that if not for these "horrible" Americans during WWll, you would all be speaking German and flying a Nazi flag ! If anything, you should be kissing the very ground we walk on, you myopic cretins !

[GC]

"And btw, to answer your question. America is a nation of immigrants...naturalized or native born....doesn't make a difference. And the actions of either type of American does reflect on America, most of the time positively, sometimes not. So sorry...ya can't use the 'he's not one of ours' argument."

True. However, perception abroad, especially in Asia is that American = white or more recently, black and hispanic. So, the action of one of these groups reflect worse on a country than say the action of an Asian American.

[Lurker]

"When told that his father had also been arrested, he merely said, 'I’m not surprised."

Prof, where did you get this info?!

[whatever]

Boys and Girls, yes Yoran is a local for living here for 15 years. those deniying it are truely morons. There is a jealousy between locals. But still i think that if it was a local american done this, there would have been more consideration with the local american.

In the case of Natalee money talks. Understandible, Mrs Twitty has only one daughter coming of age and mr. Twitty knows which strings to pull.

It's horrible whats happening, but still the way of handling this case by the US MEDIA is absurd. Prbably because of the greed to wallow in the pains of others.

Please remember it's not only the Twit that is suffering, They have trashed another family called VDS.

[Shad Stobbe]

Hey all,

Have been following only on CNN, and a little on these discussion sites. Something that has been on my mind since Natalee went missing is where the authorities are concentrating their search. If she has been murdered, and only the truly hopeful believe otherwise, where are they doing the recovery search? When the media first reported this, my first thought was they should check the caves in Aruba. They are dark, pitch black actually, and the ground is mostly sand. Not to paint too morbid a picture but it would be ideal for a dumping site...any thoughts....

[Lurker]

"lets send in the Alabama National Guard and occupy the island until justice is done in this case."

Wow, the idiotic statements on this forum never cease!!

But then... consider the source!

[EJsgal]

Was the riddle ever answered?

[Lurker]

"There are probably more murders on a single night in my city than in a year on your island."

What's the population of your city? The entire population of Aruba is under 100,000. SO COMPARE APPLES WITH APPLES AND LOOK AT CRIME *PER CAPITA.*

PER CAPITA, THE RATES FOR THE U.S. AND ARUBA ARE ALMOST IDENTICAL!!

Why is that so difficult for you people to comprehend?