Two Unconfirmed Reports

A message board poster on AOL from Aruba is claiming that three additional men are being questioned. And, that this has been going on the last two days or so. Says American news sources are reporting inaccurate information and seems to be solidly defending Van der Sloot in his posts/responses.

Two quotes on AOL message board site:

1) Thank you for being so positive and not blaming this all on the Arubian law enforcement. They are also now talking to three other men.

2) Faces are blocked in the pictures. Can't tell who they are. It was reported first about 3 days ago in awe mainta. No one else has talked about it then saw it again today in awe mainta. Unfortunately all they say is that they are two arubians and one colombian. I can speculate but that is it

That non-English publication should be at the link. I'd think some reader here can likely disprove it. The second unconfirmed report is below.

On Natalee's Yahoo forum there there is a report that a helicopter is searching Santa Lucia area because according to the cell phone records of one of the three suspects there was a call in the Santa Lucia area at 6:30 am the morning Natalee was to have met up with the group to leave for airport.

Santa Lucia is in Santa Cruz....pass the Ayo Rock Formations.... Right where they have the Donkey sanctuary on map on 2nd page of map Body maybe somewhere around area of Ayo Rock Formations.

The only way the one above would be at all credible is if you knew the records mentioned above were difficult to obtain. I can't imagine any scenario wherein the searching of that area, were the record story true, would be taking place this late in the game. Any earlier report that stated the records were obtained and looked at would seriously call into question the above report.

These are two unconfirmed reports. I'm certain a reader here can address one. The other needs to be taken at face value and cannot be confirmed. When something is unconfirmed, its real value is in helping you to draw a conclusion, or confirm something down the road.

For example, someone tells you that someone is searching for something by helicopter on the East end of an Island. You don't know the source, so the information is unconfirmed.

The next report is a radio broadcast telling you at day break a large contingent of police set off from the station and appear to be heading for the East end of the Island. This elevates the level of believability in report one and makes two all the more significant.

Most journalism comes with a relative factor of believability. The MSM does its job when it presents you information with a very high standard in the above regard.

Unencumbered as he is by certain restrictions, a blogger can present you with information of very different levels of trust, so long as he identifies them as such. This allows you to participate in a manner that the MSM, rightfully, cannot afford you. There are many advantages in this, maybe we'll explore them sometime.

The MSM shows you the finished piece. Eventually a blogger in an ideal situation, and this blog is not that at present, not only allows you to view the finished piece, he also shows you his work. The notion that unconfirmed information has no value is a myth. What's at issue here is, who gets to see it.

In case you didn't hear, the helicopters were being used at night as the infra-red requires temperature differences to see, consequently the cooler night air helps. Also, apparently the calculated rate of cooling for a human body and the air around Aruba last night worked out to there being enough difference for the technology to function.

What is unclear is if there were other nights this would have been so and the birds simply weren't ordered up, or deliverable. Or if a series of hot nights meant there was little point in making an attempt. Perhaps someone will ask that question of the authorities, or already has.

Other new content below.

Comments

[Vada in Maine]

i'm still studying the pics, I've got a couple of older ones that I wanted to compare with too..... I can't beleive how many pics are of Joran with different girls! Whats the story with Freddy, what does he think of this whole scenario??

[Vada in Maine]

sorry, I meant to push post only once, computer lagging

[Traveler]

Well Mary,

Maybe the best thing for you to do (besides unlocking your caps key) is to go down to Aruba with a rope and hang Joran. You know, they used to do that in the US.

Get a posse and do the deed.

I stand pat on my theory.

[claire]

when you see a lot of photos you get a feel for someone-this guy is definitely not a good-looking guy-he's pretty goofy and pug nosed (and I personally think gross looking) but more scary is he looks cold-all the time-and superior and controlling

[jules]

where are you guys finding all these pics of Joran?

[Getagrip]

http://www.geocities.com/proud_college_republican/

[claire]

there were lots of sites he had up and took down-one of them is still up -i've lost link but here's his friend's one http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=14894939&Mytoken=20050615075942

and there is this party he went to with several photos on it

http://album.pancayente.com/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=-19&pos=1

[glenda]

meriwether
Where did you hear that

[claire]

gee that's quite a collection on proud college site-go there instead

[dori]

Thank you Bama Mama and Donna-I knew I had heard that he went to school on that Monday. So, wasn't he acting abnormal? How did he clean up and look "normal"? Someone at the school must have noticed something different about him. Have they talked to the teachers and other students?

Also a call made on one of the suspects cell phone at 0630 from another part of the island, then he went to school? Just seems someone would have noticed something different about him. I hoped they talked with people from the school.....

[Vada in Maine]

marigot
Freddy & Rafini DO look like they could be the same person. I cant say for sure though.... It is obvious that deepak and joran have been friends for a long time. Wonder too if any of these girls that have been photo'd with joran have come forward to either support him or say he's trouble.....

[MJM]

Here's a thought, maybe nobody noticed anything about Joran because...... there was nothing to notice. On the other hand, he's in jail and I have enough confidence in out law to know that there must be something to tie this to the case.

Further: they can track his gsm (cell phone) on the island so the police should know where and when he was in different zones on the island.

[Pathfinder]

I believe Jorans daddy want to talk to his son and tell him to confess..... daddy already KNOWS HE WILL NEVER BE APPOINTED JUDGE in Aruba or the Netherlands.... neither wil his contract ending janury 1st 2006 be extended.

Although I still question why his daddy tries to speak to him and not his mother ??? Daddy sloot was/is also a professor at The university of Aruba, a very nice and easy going guy however for the same reason I believe he could not handle his son Joran, the spoiled brad brutally did something "bad" to Natalee.... whatever that means.

And for all of you still thinking Aruba police and the Jjustice system covers for daddy Sloot I can tell you Arubans do not Like DUTCH, as simple as that, so if they can nail Joran and his daddy together they will try to do this !

And believe it or not racism DOES exist in Aruba.... they prefer Yankees over Dutch and White over Black ..... and Arubans over Foreigners. Have lived there 10 year and I know !

Still I believe it is ONE HAPPY ISLAND and are anxoius to travel this august for a two week of vacation...

[kmr]

Hasn't anyone thought about alcohol poisoning? If she was very very drunk, she could have died on her own and the boys were worried they would be convicted somehow for some reason or another. It's not all that hard for someone who is only 18 and not used to drinking a whole lot to get alcohol poisoning and die. It happened to me my sr. yr. of HS and thank goodness I did not die, but I had to go to the hospital and all. All because I was dumb and young and didn't know much about alcohol. Sounds like that club did push shots on people (not that people couldn't refuse- but if you're already drunk and not used to drinking a whole lot, you'd probably take it).

[Marigot Bay]

Vada, I personally think it is solved but is panning out into something much larger. This punk has been running amok on the island for years under the protection of his father's status.

I'll tell you what's bizzare, shows the stupidity of criminals. These 3 guys go and rob a supermarket when they know the island is on red alert and is swarming with police.

[tideroller]

Traveler - There’s a saying here that if you don’t know anything you should just keep your mouth shut. No one really cares about what you “think” because you only threw out your unsubstantiated “wishes” as to how things were. The VanderSlut’s are not “fine”upstanding people as you picture them in your daydreams. Their pictures are plastered all over the Internet with the mother in see-through blouses, with the sons dirty dancing at parties where the parents are present. In nearly every picture you see of the VDS some family member has a drink in his hand. There are pictures of the father in obvious drunken disarray at parties where his sons are present. There is testimony that he frequented the casinos with his underaged sons. They are NOT fine upstanding citizens. They are SLEAZE. If you want to fantasize about this tragedy, do it on your own time, don’t waste our time by writing such irresponsible drivel. Plus your fantsizing about in idyllic romance between Joran and Natalee is frankly quite offensive.

[Angela Rodal]

Here is another site with excellent up close pix of Joran,

http://www.martin.isnw.org/lekkerdoelloos/paginas/joran.html

[UAB]

SSP I agree with you. They may not have relized how big this would get but I tell you I am from birmingham and Natalie's how town is very promenat and she would not disapper off the face of the earth that face with no questions. I tell you I am pissed Aruba sucks and so does there government I will tell everyone to never ever go there and spend there money. I hope they flop flop hard and get tourist ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ARUBA SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Island Hopper]

It is so easy to call it an accident, it sure helps the crime stats right traveler? And that is good for the economy! That is all that counts, to hell with a girl that died, Aruba needs you tourist $$.

There Arubans that think only of sucking the almighty US dollar out of tourists are making me ill.

[Vada in Maine]

I agree with you also, that it is on a much larger scale than any of us know. Solved? perhaps, or at least very close to being....

If theres only one lesson we can learn from this,remind our kids about the dangers that can show up anywhere anytime, and how to be safe.

[MJM]

Oh NO! People are drinking and they are being photographed, the horror of it all.

The VDS should just release a couple of "real" family photo's and denouce all the existing photo's on the WWW. We've only seen one side of the VDS family and that's just through Joran's site. Keep in mind he's 17 and thus immature.

to be honest, J's mother does need some fashion advice ;>

[Vada in Maine]

ya like a better bra/blouse!

[Island Hopper]

Yes Joran is 17. Too young to be in casinos, to young to hang out in bars on school nights, too young to have his own apartment, too young to be basically on his own with parents that are disinterested in raising a child.

[pw]

SARAH,

I apologize if my message came across as accusatory. I was not saying you were blaming anyone.

:) pw

[question]

Why has there been nothing on the news all day?

[MJM]

What you should try to understand is the following:

It is NOT illegal to drink at 17 under Dutch law, it probably wasn't a school night.

the vds clan are 5 people maybe there wasn't enough room in the house??? mmm, his mother is a teacher at the school he was at. That like more supervision of a parent than you ever got => on a schoolday that would mean like 12 hours minimum parental supervision??

[LornaD]

MSNBC reported that Joran has changed his story and it now matches the Kalpoe brothers' story. He now says the two brothers did drop him and Natalee off at a spot near the Marriott. No elaboration on that story as to what else Joran said.

I ask again,if this story is true,how did Joran get home or even how was he planning on getting home?

[snsc]

I think that the scenario that kmr suggests is a very likely one. Alcohol poisoning, accidental overdoes, aspiration on vomit or some other form of accidental death - I think that it is very possible that if this happened these boys or boy would rightly feel some reponsibility and therefore would try to cover it up not knowing realizing how much trouble they would be in and how big this story would be. If this is the case these boys should be punished for their involvement, their coverup, and for lying and putting Natalee's family through the additional torture of not knowing what happened to their daughter. But additionally if this is true it was very bad judgement and it was very wrong but it was not planned and therefore couldn't be predicted by the cold look in Joran's face in his picutes. It also can't be predicted by his partying with various fiends and girls. I think this boy is hiding something and is guilty but I don't think his lifestyle was leading him to this point. There are plenty of teenage boys who have money, freedom to come and go, opportunity to drink and party, etc. that do not murder teenage girls. I think his actions from the night Natalee went missing until now will tell more about his guilt or innocence than his actions before that night.

I like so many am following this story and i appreciate all of the updates on info whether it is fact or rumor. I also am interested in the different theories and opinions. Like everyone I will be glad to see this story end because I hope that Natalee can be found (hopefully but very doubtfully alive).

[tnteen]

Traveler - as to your earlier statement - kids do use rufies. i know of a good number of people who would take RGB on "big" nights out or rufie their friends because they thought it was funny. I know of people right now in college that take all kinds of pain medication as well as valium, ecstacy, coke, you name it when they go out. some people think it is funny. i personally think it is pathetic and sad but it does happen unfortunately...in america...in some of the most prestigious colleges

[Stumped]

THE TRUTH,
Left you a message at Only Blog Info from yesterday.

[tnteen]

oh and kids don't just use ecstacy as a "sex enhancer." they use it to get really wasted. AND if natalee had been slipped ecstasy it would have been blatantly obvious. BLATANTLY. but the same goes for rufies. from my understanding you get blackout if slipped that and seem very very very drunk. apparently according to people at candc with her she didnt seem out of control.

[marshall]

I went to the tickle.com site of Joran's brother and the last comment from a friend was "your brother is ok; A PERVERT, but o.k.". That entry was at the bottom of the site and now it is deleted.

[MJM]

Did Natalee share her room at the holiday inn?

What has her roommate if any to say about the packed bags etc etc?

[mamjoraan]

http://www.foxnews.com/images/166918/2_28_061605_van_der_sloot.jpg

[observer]

TnTeen-
Yes.. you are right. Either GHB or ruffies will cause you to feel really drunk and black out, but it happens up to 30 minutes-hour after you take it. You are perfectly fine, able to talk, walk, everything and then it hits you like a ton of bricks. NH could have been fine when she left the bar and then the drugs hit her once she was in the car. She would have had absolute amnesia from that point on until she woke up.

[Jay]

LornaD, are they saying that on tv?

[formerclubkid]

I have both used ecstacy in my youth and been slipped a ruffie. I have also witnessed many friends and people in both situations. Ecstacy is a drug that produces euphoric feelings, but the user is fully aware of what is going on and has complete control (unlike alcohol and GHB (aka ruffies aka the date rape drug)). When you are slipped a ruffie, you instantaneously go from sober to comatose (sp?). All of a sudden you are dead weight that does not have control of any of your functions and if she were slipped one, would be unable to walk to the car on her own. She would have to be dragged or carried which would not be consistent with the reports of what happened to Natalee. I am not saying she wasn't slipped something, but it would have to have been right before they left and would not be the reason for her willingness to leave with theses boys.

[Traveler]

tnteen,

I appreciate your comment. And, I stand corrected on the drug usage. It has been my understanding that X is great for sex. I really do not have any 1st hand knowledge of rufies or RGB.
Tideroller, you are a twit. I really don't see where I have made "wishes". I just remember how it was to be wild and 18. ANd, all that I have seen here has been opinions that start with "I" so I don't think I am wasting anyones time here anymore than anyone else.
I am not standing up for the Van Der Sloot's but I am also not calling them "Van Der Sleaze" either.

I have signed on as "Traveler" because I have visited many different places as a "traveler" and not a "tourist" and have experienced the different social morals which are different in ALL cities, states, countries. You seem to have a problem with understanding that concept. Too bad for you.

I stand pat on my opinion.

[Island Hopper]

It would be hard to have very much evidence after Joran and his father had so much time to destroy the evidence thanks to the Polis chief. Why did it take 13 hours for the polis to interview Joran and the Brothers? Where they waiting for Natalee’s mother to show them where he lived? Did they have trouble finding the white Aruban boy named Joran that hung out at the casinos and bars named Joran that was identified by her classmates as the last person seen with her?

[mike]

Previous poster reports: "MSNBC reported that Joran has changed his story and it now matches the Kalpoe brothers' story. He now says the two brothers did drop him and Natalee off at a spot near the Marriott. No elaboration on that story as to what else Joran said."

How much credibility can any of these three kids have at this point? (That's a rhetorical question, BTW). First, the three of them dropped her off at the Holiday Inn and into the hands of a nefarious security guard. Next, JVS says the brothers dropped him off at his house alone, while the brothers left with Natalee. Next, the brothers say they dropped JVS and Natalee at the Mariott. Now, JVS agrees with the dropping off at the Mariott story.

Then there's the Keystone cops in Aruba, performing searches of the house two weeks after the fact, etc., etc., etc. And the Aruban police said they initially let the three boys go in order to moitor them! Please. Based on what I've seen, they could monitor them about as far as they could throw them.

It's all very frustrating and disappointing to say the least.

[Island Hopper]

Thank you Julie for saying what many have been trying to tell this poster.

[Sarah]

I think you are going to the opposite extreme Julie of how you are raising your children. They are your children and its your business.. but its not normal for a 14 year old boy to be pure in thought and never kissed. They need to experience the normal things that life brings, not be hid from them. My daughter is homeschooled and I have taught her right from wrong but I will not keep her from experiencing normal life situations. She is not having sex and getting drunk because I have taught her better but I will not forbid her from having a boyfriend and enjoy being a teenager. You can do that without hiding them from life. Most kids that are kept from experiencing normal life will become rebellious and end up becoming exactly the opposite of the way you wanted them to turn out. Just food for thought!

[Traveler]

Julie,
My morals are not low. And, I am raising 2 teenage boy scouts. I also do not shield them from real life by "home scooling" but rather they go to racially mixed public school. They have to be exposed to the real world while under my guidence so that they are knowledgeable from experience in dealing with all others. I want them prepared.

But, I am not a closed-minded, republican, neocon individual and I have experienced ( andd accepted) many different societies.

You are doing an injustice to your children by home schooling. You can't protect them for ever unless you prepare the to deal with others.

Sorry to other for digressing but it had to be done.

[huntsvegas]

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm. From State Department report on human trafficking:

SURINAME (TIER 2 – WATCH LIST)

Suriname is principally a transit and destination country for women and children trafficked for the purpose of sexual exploitation. Men, women, and children are also trafficked internally for forced domestic and commercial labor and sexual exploitation. Most women and girls trafficked for sexual exploitation come from Brazil, the Dominican Republic, Guyana, and Colombia; they either remain in Suriname or continue to Europe for additional sexual exploitation. Girls from rural areas are promised work in cities and then trapped in situations of domestic servitude or sexual exploitation; other children are trafficked for sexual exploitation to mining camps in Suriname’s remote interior. Chinese nationals transiting Suriname risk debt bondage to migrant smugglers who place them into forced labor.

The Government of Suriname does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking; however, it is making significant efforts to do so. The government remains on Tier 2 Watch List for a second year for its failure to show evidence of increasing efforts to combat trafficking, particularly in its lack of progress in law enforcement action against traffickers. The government should investigate illegal migration, which often veils trafficking operations, and avoid summary deportations of victims who could assist in building cases against their traffickers. Government leaders should publicly support a "no tolerance" policy for officials implicated in trafficking, and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

Prosecution

Suriname still lacks a comprehensive law to combat trafficking. Existing statutes prohibited slavery, migrant smuggling, and pimping but were not adequately enforced and they treated forced labor as a misdemeanor offense. Authorities failed to screen foreign women who were possible victims of trafficking for sexual exploitation before deporting them for immigration violations. Prosecutors and police received anti-trafficking training and created operations manuals to assist officers in identifying and investigating cases. Late in 2004, the government created a special police anti-trafficking unit. The police cooperated with Curacao officials in a case that resulted in convictions for trafficking of children to the Netherlands Antilles. Cooperation with Guyanese officials led to the arrest in December 2004 of a Surinamese official for trafficking young Guyanese girls for sexual exploitation. The government created a special section in the police fraud unit to investigate public corruption. No other investigations, prosecutions, or convictions related to trafficking were reported.

Protection

The government lacked resources and efforts to assist victims were inadequate over the last year. It provided no assistance specifically for trafficking victims. The government provided police with some training on identifying victims but more training is necessary. Potential trafficking victims typically faced detention and deportation for migration violations. Mechanisms for coordinating assistance with a foreign victim’s embassy were only available to victims with legal immigration status. Victims could file suit against traffickers. In May 2004, the government established a special victims unit and telephone hotline to handle reports of trafficking and complaints from victims.

Prevention

The government made a good faith effort to educate the public and prevent trafficking during the reporting period. Radio and television spots in early 2004 and newspaper articles including quotes from senior public officials late in the year brought the issue to the public’s attention. The government supported public awareness campaigns to prevent internal trafficking of children. It funded campaigns about the worst forms of child labor, including prostitution, conducted by the Surinamese Labor College, and educated teachers, families, and community leaders about the detrimental effects of child exploitation. The government also finalized its National Plan of Action in November 2004 and provided logistical support for IOM workshops on preventing trafficking and identifying and working with victims.

[lee]

Traveler.....I too find your post borderline evil....

a young girl is probably dead, a whole family devastated not including a whole island of people in an uproar and you use the word "smitten" to describe their relationship....

and like a person that actually liked another person and wanted to have "romance" is going to slip them a drug so they can have sex with them while they're concked out....

while I do think its entirely possible that this is a "accidental" death, if it is a death, I assign much blame to the Golden Boy and his friends....

they are natives...they know the island....

and, according to what we all have read, from several sources, your Golden boy described himself as a "pimp" and is in need of anger management....

and I really like your take on the drug use....like it was no big deal...

here in the USA, it is a big deal, because we are the nation that suffers when drugs flow freely thru the Caribbean ....

I blame people that use the drugs, but I also place blame on people that think facilitation of drug abuse is no big deal.....

OTOH.....I bet Natalee's mom would be so pleased to know that it wasn't just a rape/murder,but a budding romance.....how sweet.....

[LornaD]

Jay, yes, that story was reported on MSNBC today.

[da wench]

If it's true that Joran changed his story to say that the other boys dropped him and Nat off near the Marriott, then there has to be more, obviously. It's so frustrating to get little bits of information that so far have led nowhere. I keep thinking there is going to be a big break any minute. I cannot begin to imagine what Nat's mother is going through.

[huntsvegas]

And another: VEnezuala = Tier 3 (worst rating)

VENEZUELA (TIER 3)

Venezuela is a source, transit, and destination country for women and children trafficked for the purposes of sexual exploitation and forced labor. Women and children from countries in the region such as Colombia, Guyana, Brazil, Peru, Ecuador, and the Dominican Republic are trafficked to and through Venezuela and subjected to commercial sexual exploitation. Venezuelans are trafficked internally — typically moving from rural to urban areas — and to Western Europe, particularly Spain, and countries such as Mexico and Trinidad and Tobago, for commercial sexual exploitation. Traffickers lure victims with promises of lucrative jobs or educational opportunities and take advantage of lax border controls or move victims using illegally obtained Venezuelan or false travel documents. Venezuelan children in border areas risk trafficking to mining camps in Guyana for sexual exploitation, or forced soldiering or sexual exploitation by Colombian armed insurgent groups. Venezuela is a transit country for illegal migrants, including Chinese nationals; some are believed to be trafficking victims.

The Government of Venezuela does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking and is not making significant efforts to do so. The government has devoted insufficient attention and resources to combating human trafficking. It should strengthen law enforcement efforts, educate the public, and develop protection mechanisms for trafficking victims.

[Sarah]

There is nothing wrong with homeschooling. I am simply making sure my daughter gets a better education than having to deal with the crap that goes on in public schools. Not all public schools are teaching our children good education. There are some good ones out there but not in my town. But thats a whole other topic and don't get me started. Just because you homeschool doesn't mean you are shielding your kids from life. My daughter does all the things normal kids too and she has tons of friends. So don't group all homeschooling kids into kids that are shielded from life. Its not one and the same.

[Island Hopper]

Traveler,
To continue to post your belief that Natalee had some sexual interest in Joran because you think you would have is ridiculous. Natalee is obviously nothing like you and furthermore you don't nor did you know her to make that judgement.

Many people have speculated on Joran sexual interest in Natalee based on HIS website and his own selftitle of "pimp". He wanted the worrld to see him as a sexually aggressive gangsta type pimp boy and we do, now people are crying foul. He created his image it is his own fault he has to live with it.