Two Unconfirmed Reports

A message board poster on AOL from Aruba is claiming that three additional men are being questioned. And, that this has been going on the last two days or so. Says American news sources are reporting inaccurate information and seems to be solidly defending Van der Sloot in his posts/responses.

Two quotes on AOL message board site:

1) Thank you for being so positive and not blaming this all on the Arubian law enforcement. They are also now talking to three other men.

2) Faces are blocked in the pictures. Can't tell who they are. It was reported first about 3 days ago in awe mainta. No one else has talked about it then saw it again today in awe mainta. Unfortunately all they say is that they are two arubians and one colombian. I can speculate but that is it

That non-English publication should be at the link. I'd think some reader here can likely disprove it. The second unconfirmed report is below.

On Natalee's Yahoo forum there there is a report that a helicopter is searching Santa Lucia area because according to the cell phone records of one of the three suspects there was a call in the Santa Lucia area at 6:30 am the morning Natalee was to have met up with the group to leave for airport.

Santa Lucia is in Santa Cruz....pass the Ayo Rock Formations.... Right where they have the Donkey sanctuary on map on 2nd page of map Body maybe somewhere around area of Ayo Rock Formations.

The only way the one above would be at all credible is if you knew the records mentioned above were difficult to obtain. I can't imagine any scenario wherein the searching of that area, were the record story true, would be taking place this late in the game. Any earlier report that stated the records were obtained and looked at would seriously call into question the above report.

These are two unconfirmed reports. I'm certain a reader here can address one. The other needs to be taken at face value and cannot be confirmed. When something is unconfirmed, its real value is in helping you to draw a conclusion, or confirm something down the road.

For example, someone tells you that someone is searching for something by helicopter on the East end of an Island. You don't know the source, so the information is unconfirmed.

The next report is a radio broadcast telling you at day break a large contingent of police set off from the station and appear to be heading for the East end of the Island. This elevates the level of believability in report one and makes two all the more significant.

Most journalism comes with a relative factor of believability. The MSM does its job when it presents you information with a very high standard in the above regard.

Unencumbered as he is by certain restrictions, a blogger can present you with information of very different levels of trust, so long as he identifies them as such. This allows you to participate in a manner that the MSM, rightfully, cannot afford you. There are many advantages in this, maybe we'll explore them sometime.

The MSM shows you the finished piece. Eventually a blogger in an ideal situation, and this blog is not that at present, not only allows you to view the finished piece, he also shows you his work. The notion that unconfirmed information has no value is a myth. What's at issue here is, who gets to see it.

In case you didn't hear, the helicopters were being used at night as the infra-red requires temperature differences to see, consequently the cooler night air helps. Also, apparently the calculated rate of cooling for a human body and the air around Aruba last night worked out to there being enough difference for the technology to function.

What is unclear is if there were other nights this would have been so and the birds simply weren't ordered up, or deliverable. Or if a series of hot nights meant there was little point in making an attempt. Perhaps someone will ask that question of the authorities, or already has.

Other new content below.

Comments

[cancon]

well it turns out that course in Spanish I took helped me read that headline in the paper that was talking about the three guys being arrested for armed robbery and I tell you they were some scary looking dudes.......

[Ria]

i believe she is alive as well...i told dan that last night! a GUT feeling! i hope to God she is!

[Orange]

Frank,
As I read some of the posts on this blog and other blogs from Americans pointing the judgmental fingered at Aruba…I cringe.

I live in California, and, as you may know, we Americans are notorious for scrutinizing and criticizing our own police forces (i.e. OJ, Scott Peterson, Rodney king, and recently, in Atlanta, the court shooting from Brian Nichols). We usually spare no one…hmmm…maybe celebrities.

I have never visited Aruba, but have always heard that it is a beautiful island with very friendly and honest people. Given that fact, I suspect Arubans are more than likely to give people the benefit of doubt in a public forum and, unfortunately, many of the more vocal and angry Americans have been spun up by our MSM increasingly gossip-based coverage.

It saddens me, overall Americans are very fair people who just want the truth, but somehow many have lost patience over the last years. Maybe it is a lack of trust in all forms of government, including our own.

Peace to you. And, I would be happy to visit Aruba one day. Best, Orange

[Vada in Maine]

A sixth sense? yes we Mother's do! and in my own experience that when you go on that feeling, you end up right

[JT]

When did the supermarket robbery occur?
How long did it take the police in Aruba to catch them?

[Sarah]

Well even though "there is no crime in Aruba" not every person they arrest is going to be involved in Natalee's case. I heard last week they had arrested someone unrelated to her case.

[bhamdj]

where is a pic or a link to a pic of these 3 other suspects?

[cancon]

I'll see if I can still find it, I think it was last week, it was after the three boys were picked up because someone mistakenly thought it was the three boys and it looked like they caught the guys the same night of the robbery.......as there is also a picture of the supermarket on the front page

[Vada in Maine]

good question JT.

[Mel]

While I am one that doubts Natalee is still alive, I am also not ready to convict the 3 boys on what we have/know at the moment. The truth is that we are all speculating on heresay and 2nd hand information. If I had to guess, and it is strictly a guess, then the "date gone bad" or Natalee incapacitated and taken is still the one I find the most plausible.

However, I am troubled by several things...
* Why would a seemingly responsible girl who had traveled to other countries before simply CHOOSE to leave her friends and go with three boys, two of which she likely did not know at all. seems a bit odd to me.
* Why would she not have told her friends and they have stopped her? Most girls this age rarely even go the restroom by themselves when they are in groups, at bars or parties.

* By all accounts and based on Joran's website pictures, he is at best an immature 17 year old. I have a hard time believing that he could have masterminded the hiding of a body so well that there are seemingly NO traces of Natalee in the car, on his person, etc. To commit murder, accidentally or on purpose, of someone you KNOW WILL BE MISSED within 24 hours, then to successfully hide the body and LEAVE NO REAL TRACE behind, takes a clear mind thinking things through, evaluating potential outcomes and covering of their tracks. How could Joran whom apparently has temper tantrums, cries in jail, plays with his friends (as evidenced by the silliness of the pictures and postings on his website)be confident enough, self assured enough and smart enough to carry this out and NOT BREAK when repeatedly interrogated, taken from family, friends and the real world??

just food for thougt... would love to hear your opinions as well... it is definitely a mystery as yet unsolved.

[cd]

Cancon...I don't know...although anything is possible, if VDS and the brothers have nothing to do with NH's disappearance, why did they lie to police about dropping her off at the HI in the first place?

[Sarah]

Well Mel, I think that is where Mommy and Daddy come in. If in fact he did kill her, I am sure he had some help covering it up. And if this man is so prominent in Aruba and is trying to become a judge, do you think he could become a judge if his son was convicted of murder? No. So it was in his best interest to cover it up as well as protecting his precious spoiled son.

[tmag]

I saw Dee Fine on O'Reilly too. What a sleezy embarassment she was to herself, WYDE radio and the city of Birmingham. I am sure she volunteered herself to be on national tv to be "the judge" of the chaperones. She did not have her facts right about chaperones flying on a "private jet" (not true). She was just plain rude.

[Sensi-]

"does joran only one one shirt??? :)"

...was wondering the same thing, but he seems to be stuck with one color and pattern.

I also noticed he resembles Herman Munster (sp).

[jewels]

In reference to what two of the other previous comments said, I too have a strong feeling that Natalee is still alive. I don't know her but I have a feeling that she is a very bright woman, and a tough little cookie. I just pray that if she has been kidnapped that they don't force drugs on her. I am sending all of my thoughts and good energy to her, and I wish everyone else would stop claiming her death a done deal and start manifesting positive energy to send to her.

[cancon]

the reason for lying is simple

first of all the boys knew they were the last ones seen with Natalee and figured they'd be fingered for her murder, they weren't wrong
and if Joran had in fact raped her, or if all three had participated in some kind of sexual assault, they knew they would get into trouble for that and of course they were surely be implicated in her murder

[pw]

Mel,

I read a post written by the mother of a young lady who is a friend of Natalee, was on the trip to Aruba, and spoke with Natalee right before she mysteriously disappeared.

According to eye-witness accounts, Natalee was NOT drunk, emerged from the C&C bar with a large group of students/friends, and told her friend that she was heading back to the HI hotel "with them" and pointed to the group of students. Students then saw her get into what they all thought was a taxi (apparently, taxis look like regular cars in Aruba). The "taxi" was the Kalpoe/Dutch boy car in question. No one saw her again.

Her friends didn't stop her because they all thought she was taking a taxi back to the HI hotel, like the rest of the group. Here is the link to the post if you are interested in reading it (scroll to the bottom; it's the last post on that page):

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g1-o610-k170488-i9659-Off_topic_chatter.html

[DJ]

The disappearence of Natalee has become a big media case and that is a good thing, as long as the media keeps covering daily they keep pressure on Aruba. I would hate to see her parents going home without answers.

But let's not forget people go missing everyday here in the U.S. and most go by with almost no media attention at all other then a short message on page 10 or so of your local newspaper. Almost every state has an online database of missing persons, please find yours and look through it , maybe YOU can help!
Here is one from my state texas: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/MissingPersons.asp?Date=new

[Sarah]

As far as the chaperones, I did hear from a reliable source (from a student that went on the trip) that the chaperones flew over to Aruba with the kids but did not stay with the kids during the trip. I was told the chaperones flew back to Birmingham, then flew back the day before they were to leave to get escort them back to the US. Now this doesn't make sense to me at all and may just be a rumour but this was told to someone I know by one of the kids on the trip.

From what I've heard, the private jet was used to take Natalee's mom and some others to Aruba when they found out she was missing. I am not sure if this jet was used by the chaperones.

[cd]

Maybe because my father is a police officer and/or maybe I'm just naive...but, if they didn't do anything wrong, they have no reason to lie. And, if they had "only" assaulted her and let her go, why couldn't they be honest in the first place about where they let her go?

[cd]

All of this just stinks of bs to me. I just hope for her family's sake and Aruba's sake, they find the truth in all of this.

[mamjoraan]

Those two brothers have a hand in their missing. And they had got enough time to dispose the body at another place if she was killed. But I think that in reaction from their body language when the police first saw Joran and one of the Kalpoes at Joran’s home, they seemed very cool, comfortable, confident and at ease (like leaning with their backs on a car etc) That lets me think of two options:
1. Joran wanted to make a porn film of it all and all the three boys and NH went to a friend/pimp/gangster/sex film producer’s house that would cover everything for them up. In the meantime they drugged her extra, but it was too much for her so she got in a coma and they could not do much. So they left her at their friends/pimp/gangster/sex film producer’s house in the suggestion that she would be recovered after a while. So if Deepak told the truth, they thought that their companion in the story would let NH off at some crack house when she was awakened. But that never happened, and I think she died of the overdose, so they carefully disposed her body in the Caribbean Sea. Or their pimp sold her further to overseas pimps.
2. Joran and the two brothers brought NH to some big shot underworld cocaine gangster friend of them (yeah, I really believe that there are a lot of those figures over there in Aruba), so he could have sex with her also, together with the brothers and him. But she resisted and The Don, under influence of cocaine/drugs, slapped and beat, and strangled her to death. Or he/they pumped extra drugs in her, which made her paralyzed. So all them did their thing and after that, The Don assured those boys: “Don’t worry, I’ll take care of her, I won’t kill her” So the boys drove away to their houses and just discussed with each other very calmly what story they should tell the police. The Don could have done two things after that: He killed her and disposed her body in the open Caribbean Sea, or he sold her to Columbian/Venezuelan pimps.

[tmag]

Sarah, my son was on the trip. YOu are misinformed about the chaperones. they traveled on the same planes and stayed the entire time in Aruba with the graduates.

[g4]

I have followed this from day one. Very sad.
I like to throw out a few thought for consideration
Follow the money. Do these three have bank and/or internet trade accounts? Where do they get the money for cars, gambling and to party? Were any of the three in debt?
Were there any fires that night? They could have burned the evidence. Did they buy gasoline?
Where do the local highschool kids go to party and get into mischief? Where I grew up the kids in the high school knew all the places where trouble went down.

I too believe a mother has a sixth sense. Let's hope she is right.

[Sarah]

You got to realize that Joran's dad is a prominent public official trying to become a higher level judge of some sort. Any blemish such as a tourist getting raped or hurt much less murdered could possibly kill his career. I am sure they are all lying to cover for Joran's dad or as instructed by the dad. So even an assult would have to be covered up just because of who Joran's dad is.

[pw]

Hi, Sarah,

I've been following several blogs, one of which frequently has students posting who were on the trip. It is my understanding that not only were chaperones present for the entire trip, but they did not take a separate private jet, as was mistakenly reported.

Why people continue to try to find fault with the victim, parents, chaperones, friends, in this tragic mystery is beyond me. I'm not saying you are, I just wanted to let you know that what you heard/read seems to be false. I understand many of us are totally intrigued with this case because of all the unanswered questions. We can't get sucked into rumor and innuendo, however. We have to focus on the facts, few of which have been disclosed, unfortunately.

:)pw

[mamjoraan]

Another scenario:
The reason of the possibility that they sold her off to overseas pimps is, that they know they would be sewed if NH would appear alive and well back in Aruba. And it would be a big shame for them and a hard blow for daddy wannabee judge. So they discussed the case together with their daddy’s, so the daddy’s took care of the shit of their spoiled kids in order to save their very own skin. And they did it very, very professionally; otherwise they could already have had some clue till now. That should also explain why they are very calm and at ease in their cells, because they have blind faith in the instructions of Joran’s fathers’ words, because he knows exactly how to escape the Aruban Law. But now that one of the brothers are shooting bad bullets at Joran, his daddy wants to speak him eagerly in order to give him new instructions to save their own very skin, because there is a lot at stake~!

[Sarah]

I am not blaming it on Natalee or the chaperones.. I have a 17 year old daughter myself and even she was suprised that they even had chaperones on a senior trip.. Just going to Florida or somewhere, the kids she knows didn't have chaperones. But I was just repeating what one of the kids that went on the trip said. Its not really rumour but I would consider it hearsay but I did it hear it from a reliable source.

But noone is to blame in this situation except for the person who caused Natalee to become missing.

[bama mama]

FOX News on TV says they are about to interview a friend of Joren's. 1:00 EDT

[bama mama]

Correction: Deepak's friend is being interviewed on FOX right now.

[Marigot Bay]

CD

nice catch, definitely the same guy. You need to adjust the contrast [brighter] on the picture of him in the bar, then put the photo's side by side, dude is wearing the exact same chain around his neck in both pictures.

[Getagrip]

It is definitely *not* the same guy. Joran's friend, from the many pics gathered in his various webpages, looks *very* different - his name is supposedly Freddy.

This is not something that could've gotten past Aruban, Dutch AND American (FBI) investigator.

I think a lot of people are digging beyond the facts we have on hand, and letting their imaginations run wild. There is absolutely no evidence of drug lords, sex trade, or anything of the sort.

[Marigot Bay]

Disagree whole heartedly: same ears, same neck and muscle outline, same silver chain. The bar picture is quite dated, they all are younger there. Below is the mod. picture, copy and paste the following into the body of an email and send to yourself, it will arrive as an attached picture

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[Marigot Bay]

that didn't work :( where can you upload a pic?

[Island Hopper]

For such a small island with no crime it is odd you would have a n armed robbery so soon after a missing and presumed dead tourist. It is also odd you have so many jails. I live in a small town in the US, a bit smaller than Aruba. Population 30,000 and approx 12 sq miles along the coast. We have no police department, no jail. we rely on the county sheriff department for all LE. If we brag, we have not had a murder in many years, I can not remember the last one. The last rape was in 2002 and one home invasion in 2004. We don't hide our crime stats because we are not dependent on tourism.

The Arubans have no one to blame for the loss in tourist $$ but their polis and the lack of investigation. The people need to start asking hard questions of the chief like why did you refuse to take these boys in immediately? why did you refuse to impound the car immediately? You knew who was last seen with Natalee at 11:00 Am why did you wait until Natalee's mother and step-father showed up after 11:00 PM looking for Joran to bother talking to him? Why were you protecting him?

[Getagrip]

Try www.photobucket.com and post a link to the pic you upload there.

Are you saying you don't see a difference in eye color? Or are you saying that the Charlie guy is wearing contacts? (not to mention the many other facial structure differences.

If it turns out to be the same guy, I'll shave my mustache. Oh wait, I'm a girl :)

[Vada in Maine]

of course there's no evidence of it. They've done it so long, they know how to hide it underground.... There's no public evidence of the serious heroine/drug problem in Hanalei Kauai either. Don't be so naieve' drugs and prostitution are everywhere, in every country in every state.

[Marigot Bay]

That was painless. Thanks

http://photobucket.com/albums/a213/marigotbay/?action=view&current=eyetvsnapshot227be1.jpg

[Jay]

I agree with Getagrip...2 totally different people.

[Paul]

Freddy and the gentlemen, Charles Rafini, who found the evidence in the second search near the Marriott are not the same. Rafini has a mole/freckle on his left cheek.

Dan - keep up the good work. I've been captivated by the story due to the fact I will be going there on my honeymoon in august. My heart goes out to the family and friends of NH.

[Marigot Bay]

Maybe he borrowed buddy's chain to look smart for his 15 minutes of fame? lol

I still think it is, youthful growth spurt is the difference.

[meriwether]

the story I am hearing now is that joran has changed his story to the story of the the brothers...that he was dropped off by the brothers around the marriot hotel area...

[Getagrip]

YW :) but that is not the same guy.

Different: nose, chin, eye color, etc.

I am far from naive. I was raised in the Caribbean and visit family there a few times a year. Kids of wealthy families, in this case, a judge-to-be and a businessman, have no incentive and everything to lose were they to be involved in that kind of scenario (drug lords, pimps, etc). Not impossible, but it is extreme overreaching.

If JVDS listed his 'occupation' as 'pimp', it is nothing more and nothing less than a rap reference, not unusual in teen culture, be it Aruba or North America for that matter.

[Traveler]

This my 1st post. I posted it earlier on scaredmonkeys also.

I have followed scaredmonkeys, reihlworld, the big media ect. since Natalee’s disappearence. This is also the 1st time I have visited blogs, which I find very interesting although there are some really stupid posting that you must wade through.

Here are some thoughts:

- Islands are definately more liberal and lax compared to the US.
- Island people are close-nit. It’s a finite, small world there & EVERONE knows EVERYTHING.
- The Netherlands is very socially-liberal in their thinking and have an open society. I admire their social thinking. It’s unfortunate that the muslims have abused this and are now distroying their country.
- Aruba is the Dutch’s paradise. Although Aruba is not governed by the Dutch and have a much stricter drug policy, there are many Dutch on Aruba and that combined with typical island culture, I’m sure that drug use is island-typical and fairly accepted there.

-Mr. & Mrs. Van Der Sloot are probably very fine people. He a journeyman-judge (probably like a magistrate in the US) and her a teacher. Their sons are nice looking and have an upper middleclass background, smart and well like by their friends. These are well respected people in their community. They do not look like island bums to me. And, if Mr. Van Der Sloot is a practicing judge, he is constantly considering “what is the right thing to do” in his decisions.
-Joran is coming of age and hanging at the tourist bars. This is not accepted in the US but probably is in a tourist island setting.
-Natalee is smart, blnd/blnd, petite, beautiful, quiet, popular, and a peer group leader.
-Joran is smart, clean, good looking and fun to be around and looked to be a peer group leader
-The two met and clicked.
-They were probably really both smitten with each other. Probably couldn’t think (or talk) about anything but each other for a couple of days.
-They both probably looked forward to seeing each other that last night and had a fun time at the bar.
-Natalee would definately truct & go with Jorun to the beach for a last goodbye. Probably wanted some petting but not full sex.
-Joran’s goal was probably to have sex with her. It’s the goal of all 18 year old guys.
-Probably both looked at this as a beginning romance…not a one night stand.

I believe that what ever happened was an accident. Kids don’t used roofies….they use X. X is know as a sex enhancer drug. And, it is very plausable that either Joran are somebody put X in her drink prior to leaving the bar. They have probably done X so they don't look at it as devious as we (older) would. It’s part of their (young adults) culture.

For Natalee it was probably a first. Given the drinking and X, she would have been a good candidate for an overdose reaction.

But, I doubt that whatever happened was with any intent to harm Natalee. They were both smitten. Their friends would know this.

Whatever happend after the event is anyone’s guess.

This is probaly not a murder....but a panicked coverup.

God bless Natalee's soul.

[MARY]

TO CD: YOU LINKS WERE GREAT. YOU DID A GOOD JOB. VERY INTERESTING.
THIS IS A GREAT SITE FOR INFORMATION. GOOD JOB ALL. THANKS!!

[Getagrip]

Regarding the unconfirmed report of the 3 additional men arrested...
AM ARUBA Thursday 16 June 2005
http://am.aruba.tv/
SEE ARTICLE on PAGE 6
"Early Saturday morning it was as if more
detentions took place in the Natalee
Holloway case however, this was not the
case."
"In connection with another investigation
the arrest-team of the police performed a
search at several houses in Seroe Patrichi
and Papaya. In Papaya they arrested an
individual as another suspect in the assault
on a supermarket in Cumana."
"We do not have much information on this case.
The investigation continues and three
individuals are detained of which 2 Aruba
citizens and one Columbian. Our photographer
managed to be present at the moment of the
arrest."

The .pdf document contains a picture of one of the men arrested in connection with the supermarket robbery.

[jules]

I agree totally with your scenario....I don't think he set out to kill Natalee. I think something went wrong and he panicked. I think his daddy knows what happened. He also probalby never thought it would get this much media attention.

[Marigot Bay]

I see same chin, notice cleft type thing at the same level, same eyebrows and same distance between them and hair line, same neck muscle structure. Deftinitely same bottom lip. It looks different because he's squinting in the sun and is much younger in the bar pic. Below reconstructed

http://photobucket.com/albums/a213/marigotbay/?action=view&current=ffff.jpg

anyway, there it is.

[MARY]

TRAVELER.........I HATE TO INFORM YOU BUT THAT DUTCH BOY IS NO DAMN ANGEL. SO STOP WITH YOUR STUPID COMMENTS ON HOW WONDERFUL HE IS. HE IS A SPOILED BRAT AND HIS PARENTS HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO HIS DOWNFALL BY GIVING HIM TOO MUCH FREEDOM. HIS OWN APARTMENT AT AGE 17. PLEASE. TROUBLE IS HIS MIDDLE NAME. A REAL CREEPY GUY. SCUM!! I HOPE HE BURNS IN HELL.

[Vada in Maine]

i'm still studying the pics, I've got a couple of older ones that I wanted to compare with too..... I can't beleive how many pics are of Joran with different girls! Whats the story with Freddy, what does he think of this whole scenario??