Two Observations

One is a personal observation I am only posting after seeing the interview with Mrs. Kalpoe tonight on Fox. I can remember when this all started and I was reviewing the boy's websites.

Just as Joran's website was noteworthy for a significant number of pictures from partying and the clubs, casinos, etc. .. the site of Satish was the opposite.

I remember pictures from field trips, archeological sites, art and so forth - I was genuinely struck by the difference in the two boys. That doesn't mean anything as far as guilt, or innocence, but it was a genuine observation.

The second observation will sound like gossip, which basically, it is - please take that into account. If it didn't come through an extremely reliable source on the island, I would not mention it at all.

In talking with an adult professional from Aruba who knew Joran, the individual stated that Joran often bragged to him of his many "sexual conquests" resulting from the use of an illicit substance slipped into a woman's drink and the Aruban individual suggested Joran was a "psychopath."

I doubt that the source of these statements is a certified psychologist, but if he is repeating these types of statements to individuals in and around the investigation, it will likely come out and be proven or disproven in any potential trial. And noone should be considered guilty of anything without one.

Comments

[NorthWave]

The third world? Since when is Aruba considerd as such?

[Unknown]

Why won't any of these guys step up to the plate then? If Joran did let someone take Natalee because he was scared, that's bad enough. But to drag this on is even worse. All these guys have to do is tell the truth.

[Mt. Brook Mom]

In dealing with criminals I think that it is standard...that alot of them lie..this is just
one of the characteristics of a criminal...of course someone is not actually classified as a criminal until found guilty by a court of law.

[jonscot]

Mtn Brk Mom,

The reason Joran, his Dad and others are lying now is that initially they thought the girl would show up somewhere, but when she didn't, it came back upon them. The did not do anything to her, but they should have informed that somebody confronted Joran on the beach

Girlshell,
Teens of these days like to potray a gangsta image, you can look at that both ways...to me Joran doesn't have the qualities to be that extreme killer.

Scott,
There are no marks on Jorans body, no sign of any struggle nothing...they are guilty of exactly knowing what happened to NH in that somebody took her

[mzgabrla]

jonscot

You apparently do not pick up on the facts. Women are being assaulted in all and any type of situation. We happen to be focusing at the moment on the tragic fate of Natalee Holloway. However, women are being assaulted every day, and every day those who have committed the crimes against them are being allowed to go free or pay with minimal prison sentences.

Age does not seem to be a limitation. And YES I BLAME THE SCUM, at all times.. AND the people who continue to make excuses for the scum, ie "she shouldn't have gone out".

IF All people do not demand respect and justice for women, then the scum continue to believe themselves above the law.

Your mentality on this helps in continuing to trivialize rape and violence against women. Take a leap forward and understand that just because a women is alone at night it doesn't mean she is asking for it, nor does it diminish the severity of the crime.

[jonscot]

unknown,

they didnt expect the girl not to show up..

now i think they better speak up

[scott]

Scott,
There are no marks on Jorans body, no sign of any struggle nothing...

I'm confused. What does this have to do with what I wrote?

[Vander F]

Yeah, stop this 'third world' crap.
Aruba is a class holiday island.

[dutch]

@jonscot,

your theory seems a bit farfetched.

- to make the guys, even the father, too scared to talk, this would have to be a very professional kidnapping organization.
- if they are that professional why would they risk leaving a witness?
- the father, through his knowledge and connections could have arranged for the case to be solved without his son named as a witness, it could have been an "anonymous tip" or some "clever policing" that solved the case. the father could have gone to his police connections and tipped them of himself, asking to remain anonymous.

so i don't think your theory works with the few facts that we know about this case.

on a lighter note, where are the "the cia is behind everything" conspiracy lovers on this forum? :-)

[Mt. Brook Mom]

I think that they may have thought Natalee would show up too. After all Joran said something like
when she comes back or something like that.

But frankly my dear Jonscot :) that is not excuse for them to lie.

A lie is a vehicle by which someone tries to cover the truth in my opinion.

But again I still agree with Beth...those guys know what happened to Natalee..either while
Joran or someone was with her.
And I have heard that the Island has rumors going on. Even if Joran left Natalee alone on the beach as a JERK would only do...and someone else got ahold of her...there has to be others on the island that would have known about it...gossip spreading, rumors...

There is more yet to come, and I believe others will be involved so hang on for the long haul..
as I am doing and continue to hope and pray for Natalee and her family that if she is alive she is returned home safely.

or if not ....then found...

[scott]

"the cia is behind everything"

That's actually my fall-back position.

Anyway, I'll have to agree with Dutch on this one. Jonscot, my friend, I don't think law enforcement is your calling.

[jonscot]

Dutch, scott

The guys didn't come saying they are International Traffickers. All Joran probably thought that these men were going to abuse her, not kidnap her or anything.

Thats why they hoped she would show up. Now they are probably realising the graveness.

,

[Unknown]

If someone so terrible that they could instill the fear of death into Joran took Natalee and scared Joran into silence and lies ... I think Joran would have been found with his throat cut laying life-less on the beach instead. That kind of individual would not leave a witness ... especially a snotty 17-year-old wannabee judge's son.

I think Joran had to be connected somehow with the individual(s) ... if in fact that is even what happened. He has a previous relationship with them or he would not have been allowed to walk away.

[The Dutch built Harlem]

hey people,
can we quit this 'GOD' bullcrap for now?
I mean the nearest solarsystem is Alpha Centauri, 4 lightyears away from our planet. There's no god in between, and there's no god beyond. Get a life or get a science book.

[The Dutch built Harlem]

hey people,
can we quit this 'GOD' bullcrap for now?
I mean the nearest solarsystem is Alpha Centauri, 4 lightyears away from our planet. There's no god in between, and there's no god beyond. Get a life or get a science book.

[Flying Dutchman]

@ Mt. Brook Mom

In most of your comments, you're pretty convinced in the use of drugs by one of the suspects or an other party.

Is this a fact, or just your vision?

Because in spite of all the theories on the disappearance of NH on blogs all over the world, I haven't seen a single shred of actual evidence that would stand up in court against any of the suspects.

I think your hiding your head in the sand if you state, that those kids didn't go to Aruba to get drunk. What's the minimum drinking age in the US?
How many kids actually drink before this age?

Since you Americans are always fond of things including God an the bible, how about the story concerning the forbidden fruit?

Mind you, this is not intended to piss you off, but quite frankly you and a lot of others make a lot of assumptions, without looking at some real facts.

All I can say, time will tell and up until that moment everything is pure speculation.

[dutch]

joncott,

if this were true, why would the father be implicated, because his son is not involved in the crime, and therefore the father wouldn't have had to coverup anything

i believe that since the father has obviously been implicated true forensic evidence, or has been contradicting himself

this means he his covering up for his son, or himself

so, there must be something worth covering up, that joran was scared off by some guys on a beach does not sound like something the father would cover up

[The Dutch built Harlem]

the dutch are on a shooting streak! :)

[dutch]

true=through

sorry! need to read before i post

[jonscot]

unknown,

joran cannot identify anybody, he doesn't who they are, he is stuck, he can only say somebody took her

[The Dutch built Harlem]

no my dutch mate,
true = OK

;)

[scott]

I mean the nearest solarsystem is Alpha Centauri, 4 lightyears away from our planet.

I suppose next you'll be saying that humans evolved from monkeys... and that the Earth isn't 6,000 years old.

[The Dutch built Harlem]

Nope, humans didnt evolve from monkeys and the planet is way older.
But there is no god, so all the alabama church go-ers need to lighten up.
Take responsibility for you own life, instead of always pointing to some dude 'up there'.

[jonscot]

dutch,

joran told his dad what happened and he probably said, forget it, she'll come back..and now she has not

[dutch]

jonscott,

so joran told his dad she was taken by some guys on the beach? and then daddy said, don't worry son, just make up some story about the hotel and some security guard, rather than telling the truth?

oh yes, makes perfect sense....

[Ustited Nates]

One nation underdog

[Vander F]

But dad is arrested and under suspicion of murder.
That's not because he said 'forget it, she'll come back' is it?

[Ari]

One explanation as to why Joran has not confessed is that his father participated in this all the way, and not just after the fact. But if this is the case, I cannot understand why there is not some solid forensic evidence. If they transported a body with a car, it is virtually impossible to clean it (aside from the fact that the dogs would have picked up the scent immediately, especially if NH was alive in Joran's appartment).

In many cases, forensic evidence, like hair etc can still be found months later, or even longer. Even the most notorious professionals cannot get rid of a body in such a complete manner without leaving any trace behind.

On the other hand, if it were an accident, I would expect an adult with legal training never to attempt to mess with the body or evidence. It doesn't make sense for PVDS to destroy his own life and his family just to save Joran from what would have been a relatively mild penalty. Adult parents never do that, especially when they have two more children depending on them.

So what gives?

[jonscot]

dutch,

now the dad cant say, yeah, somebody took the kid. that would be extremely shameful that he would allow a girl, his son's age be taken by somebody on the beach.

[dutch]

ari,

there might be forensic evidence, and that might have triggered his arrest. we do not know that, and the police will not make that kind of information public at this stage of the investigation. (they don't have to indict him)

i too think it would be interesting to know at which point the father got involved, as advice to dispose of a body would only make sense if something had happened that is far more sinister than wrongful dead or an accident. (but that might of course be the case)

but possibly he only got involved after the boys had made there initial statements to the police, he figured out his son was involved, confronted the boy, covered up some of the tracks.

all speculation of course.

[dutch]

@jonscott,

why not? why would it be shameful?

in your scenario, all that joran has done is run away rather than be a potentially dead hero...

i still don't see why you would require a cover up?

[Dutch cheese]

Just my cup of tea... (althought I don't like tea!

So what's happening, between the Dutch and the Americans. Why do the dutch bash the americans?

Well, to me it's quite simple. If Joran and his father (or one of the others) are guilty: put them away for a very long time. The only problem we dutch have is that you Americans think that you are the world.

The dutch legal system is different from the US system, but that does not mean that it's bad. Don't judge about this system and stay to the facts. There will be no cover-up (why is the father arrested then?). The second point is: we dutch don't like guessing and complot theories. We stick to the facts. We stay with our feet on the ground, but....... if anyone questions our integrity -> we, the dutch, will react. That is what is happening here.

So stay to the facts, and maybe we can join forces, by sharing info on things we read (by translating properly etc).

Just my thoughts

[jonscot]

dutch & ari,

Joran and Dad had nothing to do with a body, its impossible for them to leave no traces at all, and joran reach school the next day. Its too clean to be true. The guilt on Dad's face is not of a murderer but that of one who has not come out truthful

[Mt. Brook Mom]

Flying Dutchman..

We all know that if kids want to drink and or to do drugs they don't have to leave any country in the world to do so...drugs are everywhere around the world... You can stay right at home and participate in drugs or drink liquor you don't have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars to fly to Aruba to do so for a week.

As for your question...Natalee's behavior was not consistant with her normal self, other students with her reported. No one believed that she was drunk so what other alternative is there?
Its either drunk or drugged. Right?

It was reported that there is a history of date rape drugs on the island of Aruba. It is believed that Natalee's behavior is consistant with that of the behavior of someone who had been drugged.

It would be most appreciated Flying Dutchman if you would be so kind as to pray for Natalee and her family. We are all only asking that Natalee be returned and that justice take place in reference to her disappearance. Thank you.

May God Be with you Flying Dutchman.

[jonscot]

dutch,

shameful that he did not care that a young girl was stuck on the beach with somebody, when his son told him so

[jonscot]

especially when it was his son who took her there for sex,

[jonscot]

Mtn Brk Mom,

Can you answer a question for me?

Why would NH want to hit on a stranger in Aruba when there are so many of her fellow classmates she can date??

answer: She is not an angel

[The Dutch built Harlem]

errr Dutch:

I am dutch and i LOVE guessing and complot theories. So speak for yourself mate. ;)

[The Dutch built Harlem]

Mt. Brook Mom:

who do we have to pray to?
I have never done it before, please explain?

[The Dutch built Harlem]

errr Dutch CHEESE:

I am dutch and i LOVE guessing and complot theories. So speak for yourself mate. ;)

[dutch]

@jonscott,

you might be right of course, and i might have to eat my words.

however your theory with international traffickers confronting joran and natalee, making of with the girl, it just does not explain the lying and trying to cover up where they went.

i do not see any reason for a man like van der sloot sr. to be involved in a coverup for something like that, to such an extent that he gets arrested.

[The Dutch built Harlem]

Dutch Cheese:

the reason YOU don't like guessing and complot theories, is because of your lack of imagination and fantasy. In other words: you are boring, mate.

Hail the imaginative dutch!

[jonscot]

i'm not specifying international traffickers, but as time goes on and there is no trace of the kid, then we might need to look in that direction.

If no body is found, then there is no reason for the sloots to talk, and sham themselves right, so Dad knows that they are not linked with a body and he is confident of that, nevertheless he still hasn;t told the truth

[King of Controversy (Holland)]

I ve been reading a lot of conpiracy theory around this blog, of how it could have happen ( you all got expirience in the field? ;)
But if one sticks to the facts there is, i think, only one conclusion possible. She ran away
Fact 1) she is missing
Fact 2) She had a lot of money on her, more than she was ever gonna need during her vacation
Fact 3) although there is some vague confession, that is irrelevant. Research has let to the conclusion that 75% can be persuede to confess, even if they are innocent
Fact 4) My english sucks

[The Dutch built Harlem]

King of Controversy:

I agree with fact 4.

[jonscot]

there's no conspiracy, its pretty straightforward:

two teens take off to a beach to make out in the dead of the night

some locals see them and take the girl

boy flees and tells Dad who doesn't think that nothing serious would happen, and so he tells his son to close it up

but the girl never returns and the heat is on

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Anyone?

Good morning I've been reading the discussion and was wondering if anyone knew what the beach and water area is like by the Marriot 1/4 mile north og Hol INN?

[dutch]

king,

i think we only have proof for fact 1

allthough there is substantial incriminating evidence for fact 4 :-)

[Mt. Brook Mom]

Jonscot

I remember when I was 18 if I saw a boy I thought was handsome I too would say something to him. I learned that if I didn't say something to a cute guy then there was a possibly my chance to meet that person might vanish. Its just part of flirting whether its a boy or a girl...thats all. Its just a normal thing to do when your interested in meeting someone. Natalee just did not know that Joran was a consequador. :)

[jonscot]

what is it like?? alethia