Joran's Anger Management Issue

As first referenced here in an interview with a friend of Joran Van der Sloot - and also stated more plainly near the end of this report, there is no evidence to support claims that Joran Van der Sloot participated in any formal anger management class, or group.

Additional reliable information points to Aruban sources as the generators of that rumor, as opposed to simply being spun out of wholecloth by Geraldo Rivera of Fox News.

Additionally, informed speculation around the issue suggests it was a public relations decision by individuals with ties to the Aruban government, parts of which might not mind seeing a Dutch expat being designated as the guilty party, even if it never gets proven in a court of law.

The underlying theory is that managing the story and any potential damage to Aruba's reputation as a tourist destination might be better served if a white Dutchman and expat could take both the blame and the focus off the island itself to some degree. Even if Joran and a member of his family were never formally charged with any crime, a government determination to revoke or simply not renew their work permits would likely force the Van der Sloots from Aruba, whether they wanted to leave, or not.

This contrasts significantly with the image of an Aruba some have speculated was all too quick to run out and arrest two very dark skinned security guards while allowing Joran Van De Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers to go free, even if reports they were under surveillance do prove to be true.

Noone has suggested to me that Geraldo Rivera's prominent role in disseminating the rumor  - as well as another apparently unfounded report mentioned here - the plate glass incident - is anything like complicity. It's more likely that the well meaning reporter was simply duped.

Comments

[Not a Hand Wringer.]

[[ Has anyone ever seen so many obvious lies, misleads and sabatoges of a case in your life?
Everyone from the suspects to their parents and the authorites seem to continually do the most unnerving things. Yet the simplist information and reactions point to a crime having been commited by one or more of the people involved. Now I am sure that I will be pounced upon for say Joran has proven his guilt. At least of telling lies. I have found that the reason a person lies is to hide a truth that will net unwanted actions.
Worse yet, he has proclaimed himself to be without religious beliefs, so he has only his conscience to atone to. I hope he is pleased with himself. ]]

The investigation continues, and The kid's lies have him/them in jail right now under suspicion, so what's your point?

If this was America, the kids would be free until the police have enough to arrest them.

What would make you happier? Having the kids walking around free ala Scott Peterson while the police do the investigation and search for a body...

Or....

Having them in jail, held under suspicion?

[ImDutchAndImGay]

Well at least if Whore-an gets arrested he can still have sex in prison.
Maybe papa will send him some nice blonde tourist to play with while he is incarcerated.

[Simian]

Natalee matado Joran y yo estamos en amor con ella.

[Not a Hand Wringer.]

{{ Not a hand wringer

I am not doing any of the listed things... can you answer my question? refute the facts I have stated? Give it a shot? Why the pre-planned story if no crime was committed? }}

So, now you want me to 'float' a theory as well?

You tell me, why the pre-planned story if no crime is comitted...

and remember, you don't know for sure so anything you post will in fact...be a theory. So, where exactly do you NOT fit into at least one of the profiles of posters that I listed?

[Simian]

Nunca cargarán a estos cabritos con este asesinato. La gente de Aruba sabe la verdad. Soy uno de esta gente.

[Arubacoverup]

Dan,

appreciate the blog..

Few comments...This BS story of them putting the three suspects under surveillance..that is just another ploy in the cover-up. Give me a break, they can barge into the two innocent security guards homes pull them out in their boxes abut they do not want to go into JVDS right away but wait 10 days.

IT IS ALL A COVER UP IT IS AS PLAIN AS DAY.

IT IS NOT WHAT YOU KNOW BUT WHO YOU KNOW!!!!

And they did a poor job about it. But the problems is who is going to do anything about it?

NO ONE!!!!

The Aruban authorities keep on dragging there feet passing the time away so this thing will blow over.

NO ONE WILL BE CHARGED!!!! IT IS TIME TO FACE REALITY!!

[hammer]

bamagirl:

You are correct. The HI alibi was in place the moment BHT arrived at the VDS residence; it was revealed a little later once all parties were present at the VDS residence after the casino goose chase.

At this point in time NH had been missing for approx 18 hours (first notification of chaperone in HI lobby at about 8:30am). It is difficult to ascertain exactly when an "official" missing persons report was filed -- the chaperone has indicated in wasn't until much later in the day (after a DEA agent had been dispatched and arrived) did police actually take an official statement.

The next step is that BHT is at the VDS residence at about 12:30 that nite -- and in her first encounter w/ Joran/Deepak, the HI alibi is dished up --

By this time, NH had been "officially missing" for about 4-5 hours.

That's pretty quick alibi work for a 17 yr old -- don't ya think?

[ag]

Siman translate please I can get bits and pieces but not fully understanding. Sorry for my ignorance

[Dreamer]

Island Life, I understand exactly how many different directions the profits float in. Which is why we haven't heard any outrage from any U.S. government officials, the Marriott, the Holiday Inn, etc.

As tourists, WE are a vital part of the problem. We make choices on vacation destinations and our behaviors once there, we bring in the money. Collectively, Americans have helped to pay the way for the kidnappings, rapes, forced prostitution, drug trafficking of many, many people from all over the world.

And most of us will continue to do so, sadly.

[Simian]

You will have to learn spanish. Sorry.

[mc]

They had their "walking around" time and plenty of it, I might add. They should have stayed in jail to start with and I believe the authories would be closer to solving this crime.

[Simian]

El amor está en el aire

[ag]

ok Simian

Te love is here in the air?
How far off am I?

[ag]

Why is everyone so quick to blame if you don't know what evidence or lack of evidence they have

[fokje]

yeah well interesting Simian. not.

[ag]

I am doubtful of what they have done but. . . .WHo am I to judge I have seen disappeances in opther parts of the world that have never been solved as well as homicides

[mc]

Nunca cargarán a estos cabritos con este asesinato. La gente de Aruba sabe la verdad. Soy uno de esta gente.

Translation
They will never load to these cabritos with this murder. The people of Aruba know the truth. I am one of this people.

How do you say Asshole in Spanish, asshole?

[chaser]

Simian, you don't know didly

[mc]

http://world.altavista.com/tr

[resorttownmom]

Thanks Dan for an objective explanation of the anger management issue. It has been a month and so far there is no evidence of a crime so we need objectivity not accusations.

[ag]

thanks MC

[Dman]

For me there is a distinction to be made regarding what happened to Natalee i.e. did something accidentially happen with Joran and the brothers that harmed her and they are trying to hide that or did Joran and or the brothers lead her purposefully into a situation where she could be harmed i.e. abducted, etc.

If Joran is innocent of either I can not understand why he would leave her alone on the beach at that time even if she was emploring him to do...as a reasonably responsible male you just should not act that way unless you are either incredibly self-centerd or were being over powered to do so. If it is the former it does point to a very serious character flaw within Joran that makes him a danger to others.

[NEVER GO TO ARUBA]

NEVER GO TO ARUBA.
NEVER GO TO ARUBA.
NEVER GO TO ARUBA.
NEVER GO TO ARUBA.
NEVER GO TO ARUBA.
NEVER GO TO ARUBA.
NEVER GO TO ARUBA.
NEVER GO TO ARUBA.
NEVER GO TO ARUBA.
NEVER GO TO ARUBA.

[bamagirl]

Not a Hand wringer

I am posting Stated FACTS>>>
not speculation...

You may think what you like, but the TRUTH is that is a LIE was told at the very beginning,

BEFORE it was common knowledge that Natalee was missing....

THE TRUTH...the lie was premeditated.....whether you like it or not....

[mc]

we need the truth to start with.

[chaser]

Amor esta en tu culo....Maricon

[RobWantsToBobOnYourKnob]

Right on Dreamer!
WE AS AMERICANS NEED TO SHOW THE ARUBANS WE MEAN BUSINESS.
BOYCOTT ARUBA!
HURT THEM IN THEIR WALLETS.
ITS THE ONLY WAY THEY WILL LISTEN.

[Simian]

¡Boicoteo Aruba!!

[TNNative]

I just heard today the Croes guy say that Joran met Natalee by winning her money back at the casino. I had never heard that before, but it was mentioned in the deepak email pasted on the sounds of silence page. If this was not previously released information, doesn't that give the email a little more credibility? had anyone heard that before?

[bamagirl]

Absolutely Hammer!!! : )

[CROESISGUILTY]

MAYBE CROES READ THAT EMAIL TOO
HES LYING JUST LIKE WHOREAN AND SHITPACK

[Mary]

A = Arrogant
R = Repulsive
U = Untruthful
B = Biggot
A = A-Holes

[bamagirl]

TNNative
I heard that last night on FOX ... The Aruban Businessman said Joran had said that. So coming from him, who knows if its true...

[ag]

Bottom line is there are only a select few who know until they deciede to tell what they know no one will know what truely happened

[ag]

Wow mary that's harsh. . . Have you ever been there?

[chaser]

allright Simian, maybe you and RobWantsToBobOnYourKnob should get together and start a talkshow. Redneck meets Spic! (with a touch of Dutch if you invite TSUNDER)

[Dman]

bama G:

I can understand a premediated lie in that situation if he knew that she had been taken (not of his doing)by mafia types known to him and of which he was also afraid.

[Simian]

No deseamos a americanos en nuestra isla de todos modos. Boicotéela por favor. Usted trae malas cosas a nuestra isla. ¿Es usted ese lleno de ustedes mismos a pensar que necesitamos sus dólares turísticos?

[bamagirl]

Dman, do you really think that is the case?

Joran's like the little boy who cried wolf is'nt he? Hard to believe a word he says that can't be documented....

[chaser]

CROESISGUILTY, I don't agree with you, but you are getting an A+ for creative name calling. I'm still LOL.

[ag]

Simian It appears that statisically you need our dollars

[islandlife]

Dreamer,

sizewise Aruba is just supplier to demand. You have to see things on a scale base. To serve 15 million tourists to a sunny destinations, somebody has to do it.
nothing more or less. Aruba fills in the need.
If 700.000 tourists of the millions of millions want to party gamble, have drinks and fun, Aruba supplies it.
Like disneyworld supplies an answer to our fantasies.
It's just business

[Dreamer]

My main reason for posting here today, however, is a dream from last night. Really, the wee a.m. hours as I stayed online until 4 a.m.

I was very surprised to read Dan's most recent view on Aruba's investigation. This is my dream:

Bloggers were bouncing back and forth sharing information and theories about important issues. Some of them showed their true identities but there was a group who did not.

That group passed around costumes to disguise who they really are. One would pose as a native, another would pose as a light-skinned person. This revolved among them.

I wondered are they concealing their ethnicities in order to deceive us? Some were. But not all. There was a smaller handful of those who were close enough to the leaking sources to be telling the truth.

Why were they wearing costumes? To protect themselves. Why? Because if their identities are discovered then they cannot gather any more information and could be in danger of reprisals. Why does this matter so much to them? Larger issues than one alone - the tensions between natives and those in power who aren't native. They gather and disseminate and push the bloggers to keep asking, to keep thinking, to look, to not accept what is being offerred as the whole truth because they want to expose the complete truth.

I saw one person in particular up close. It was a male. I don't want to disclose which costume was truly his because to him it is vital to keep that hidden or at the least unsure. He has mixed motives which is why the confusion and revolving costumes. I sensed someone who CAN be on the side of truth but who has not always been viewed by those close to him as being on he side of truth.

I'm still pondering that because the person appeared as someone whose true traits long ago puzzled me. Was he good or was he bad? I was ambivalent then, but remember believing that despite his circumstances and circle of friends that inside he wanted to do good. I don't want to say anymore about that person and I hope that his true motive is shaking up bloggers and encouraging/instructing those who revolve with him to do the same.

I wondered about it all morning and then I logged onto RiehlWorldView instead of Scared Monkeys, which is usually my first stop. I was really surprised at Dan's latest thoughts and am wondering if they help to confirm the intentions of the disguised circle of informants in my dream as being a fervent desire to bring to light much more than what happened to one particular person.

Should we trust him/them? My answer was that we have no choice. They know the most but cannot expose themselves. It's up to us to keep working, to pay close attention, and to keep the spotlight on the Aruban investigation.

[hammer]

Dman --

You say:

**I can understand a premediated lie in that situation if he knew that she had been taken (not of his doing)by mafia types known to him and of which he was also afraid.**

Possible. Not Probable.

A premeditated alibi (lie) would also be a good thing to have in place in Joran's case if he had committed a crime against her -- like rape, and then murder.

Did you know that in many US states, murder committed during the commission of a felony (rape) carries a death sentence?

[chaser]

Simiam, you'r probably a homeless Puerto Rican who just lost his job at the fair for bungee jumping with the homeless drive. In Aruba no one speaks spanish unless spoken to. We speak Dutch English or Papiamento (Spanish is the last option) So, tienes que irte al conjo, hijo de Puta. Algo asi.....

[Cmoney]

bamagirl, I'm curious about something. You say that a lie was told before it was common knowledge that Natalee was missing...so, when was the Island notified that she didn't make her plane? Was it reported on the island that she was missing prior to her parents flying to Aruba and confronting VDS, Kalpoe and PVDS?

Even if it wasn't common knowledge, once JVDS learned from her parents that she didn't make her plane, isn't it possible he started to dance around the "truth" because of the way he was being questioned? Isn't it also possible that at that point, Kalpoe went along with whatever JDVS was telling the Twittys? Do we even know if they were separated when they were questioned by Natalee's family? So many questions...

[izzy]

Moscow Girl, I saw the exact same interview with the "FBI Agent" on Fox News and do not recall him being identified as "high ranking". As pointed out by others, the FBI would be highly unlikely to send a current high ranking official to comment on this case. It's a little pathetic that you pounced on the first commentator I have seen offer such a cautious analysis of this case; I guess you haven't been transcribing the comments of Mark Fuhrman, Judge Napolitano, or any of the others...

You may have recorded and transcribed the interview, but perhaps you do not fully understand it. When Charles Croes described what he overheard when police were questioning Joran Van der Sloot, it was clear that Joran was giving them his complete cooked up cover story, including the claim that he had dropped Natalee off at the Holiday Inn, which we now know to be a LIE. Why then do you take at face value the claims that Natalee had taken drugs and was drunk as well?

And by the way, Mr. Croes did *not* discount Jug Twitty's account of the confrontation at the Van der Sloot home in any way shape or form. Greta's interview with Charles Croes simply did not go into that much detail because she was focused on the fact that JORAN ALREADY HAD A COVER STORY PREPARED BEFORE NATALEE WAS PUBLICALLY KNOWN TO BE MISSING, something that seems to have escaped your notice in your zeal to prove all us American rednecks wrong. Jug Twitty's account of that night is that the police talked to Joran first, then his friends ended up involved in the discussion. I believe it is at that point that Paulus Van der Sloot started telling Joran he didn't have to answer their questions.

I hate to completely disillusion you, but I haven't come across too many Americans who think Joran is telling the truth and had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance...guess that makes us all a bunch of rednecks.

Hey, are you watching Fox News now? Ted Williams (Criminal Defense Attorney) is talking to Jon Gibson about the Natalee Holloway case, and strangely enough he seems to think Joran was lying. Imagine that! Where does he get these crazy redneck ideas? Oops, now Ted is saying that he doesn't think Natalee is a wild child and was out drugging and carousing like Joran said. Now he's pointing out that Joran was doing underage drinking and gambling. Now he has proposed that Joran slipped Natalee some kind of drug. Oh my! I hope you are transcribing all of this and sending it to Dutch and Aruban law enforcement officials!!!

Finally! A voice of reason. That’s why he is a High-ranking FBI executive responsible for security of the country, and not an idle “red neck” spitting hate and idle threats on the web.

Last night Greta conducted an interview with an Arabian friend of Natalee’s family, a businessman who was instrumental in helping Natalee’s parents to locate Joran and his house.

He stated clearly:
- Joran’s father immediately expressed desire to cooperate with the family, and kept offering his help.

- Joran himself immediately expressed desire to cooperate with the family. So he lied! He was probably covering up use of “drugs and alcohol” or some other minor misdemeanor, or simply afraid of “being in a scandal in general”.

- The businessman also confirms that he heard that Natalee did consume alcohol, possibly took drugs, and was initiating contact/flirting with Joran. No this is not a reason to loose one’s life, but her condition and psychological state could possibly give more clues to her actions after she was “dropped off” and help locating her.

Now I don’t know why Natalee’s step father lied, calling Joran and his father “arrogant” and acting like they refused to help, when the very man, who was trying to help the family, is saying otherwise.

I think it would be wise for the hopefully prevailing group of sane and decent Americans to “put a lid” on the empty blabbering of your “red neck” population. Aruba story will soon be forgotten, (and hopefully the Natalee’s story solved with best possible outcome), but the attitude of the “righteous nationalistic few” will hurt your whole country, reputation and image wise, a lot greater than the lack of “few tourists’ money” in Aruba.

You have much greater battles to fight in the world right now. Don’t let those few “win a small battle” and “loose a big war”.

Just like “those few” do not differentiate between “few issues of a criminal case” and the whole Aruba and Holland, the rest of the world may not differentiate between “the few red necks” and decent people…… And soon you may see “Yankee go home!” signs in many places.

Your money can only go so far….. You’re not the only wealthy country on this earth, and its becoming more apparent that “American money may not be worth the hassle and havoc some Americans raise when things do happen “their way”.

I am sending transcript of Cpt. Greg McCrary to all Arubian and Holland authorities and tourism agencies, as demonstration that “normal intelligent American people have normal intelligent attitude”.

[islandlife]

Dreamer,

sizewise Aruba is just supplier to demand. You have to see things on a scale base. To serve 15 million tourists to sunny destinations, somebody has to do it.
nothing more or less. Aruba fills in the need.
If 700.000 tourists of the millions of millions want to party gamble, have drinks and fun, Aruba supplies it. And that's why they go there. If they want to see castles, they gotta go to scothland. You want winmills and wooden shoes, go to Holland.
Like disneyworld supplies an answer to our fantasies.
It's just business. The island is only big enough for that. you dont go to Aruba to see mountains and skiing. You go to gamble etc etc. It's their business

[DreamTheImpossibleDream]

I had a dream.
That whorepack and deepshit told the truth.
And nobody believed them.
If a bear shit in the woods and there was no one there to smell it, did he really shit in the woods?

[Not a Hand Wringer.]

[[ I am posting Stated FACTS>>>
not speculation...

THE TRUTH...the lie was premeditated.....whether you like it or not.... ]]

You're shifting now. That's not what you asked me. You asked me " Why the pre-planned story if no crime was committed? "

I'm saying that any answer to that question is a theory. I've never disputed that the boys have been caught in lies. I think they deserve to be under suspicion.

I just won't get caught up in the arm-chair sleuthing, theory-floating, aruba bashing, America-firsting, and general mis-information spreading that's rife on these DB's.

You know...whatever floats your boat. If floating theories floats your boat, float away.