Joran's Anger Management Issue

As first referenced here in an interview with a friend of Joran Van der Sloot - and also stated more plainly near the end of this report, there is no evidence to support claims that Joran Van der Sloot participated in any formal anger management class, or group.

Additional reliable information points to Aruban sources as the generators of that rumor, as opposed to simply being spun out of wholecloth by Geraldo Rivera of Fox News.

Additionally, informed speculation around the issue suggests it was a public relations decision by individuals with ties to the Aruban government, parts of which might not mind seeing a Dutch expat being designated as the guilty party, even if it never gets proven in a court of law.

The underlying theory is that managing the story and any potential damage to Aruba's reputation as a tourist destination might be better served if a white Dutchman and expat could take both the blame and the focus off the island itself to some degree. Even if Joran and a member of his family were never formally charged with any crime, a government determination to revoke or simply not renew their work permits would likely force the Van der Sloots from Aruba, whether they wanted to leave, or not.

This contrasts significantly with the image of an Aruba some have speculated was all too quick to run out and arrest two very dark skinned security guards while allowing Joran Van De Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers to go free, even if reports they were under surveillance do prove to be true.

Noone has suggested to me that Geraldo Rivera's prominent role in disseminating the rumor  - as well as another apparently unfounded report mentioned here - the plate glass incident - is anything like complicity. It's more likely that the well meaning reporter was simply duped.

Comments

[cjcooker]

Moscow Girl
I just went onto Fox news, can you tell me where that transcript is located.

[vcsiii50]

Moscow Girl
Gotta tell ya....I am not overly impressed with (your report of) "High-ranking FBI Agent, Greg McCrary" speaking on Fox.
I am, obviously, an American. I do not blindly trust anything an FBI spokesperson has to say in the media. I do think it is entirely possible that the bottom line concern here is to stabilize and smooth over any ruffled feelings on the part of Aruban or Dutch government officials, and to try to damp down the speculative and emotion driven "bad press" these governments are getting in the media (as well as in the "blogsphere"), rather than actually provide any real information which has been gathered about how Natalee dissappeared and where she is now.

I do agree that we should all reserve judgement until we know more. At the same time, if all these "rednecks" and "righteous nationalistic few" were not so actively prodding, and even accusing, and demanding answers to the many unanswered questions, I really do believe that the investigation might have already been wound down.

The important point to me is that the people (including "rednecks") are refusing to accept the government BS, and demanding more. And I think it is being felt. We should all keep the pressure on. If you are truly a "Moscow Girl", this should sound pretty familiar to you, eh?

[james]

I still think that GHB or some other similar drug was involved. Someone close to me almost overdosed on GHB and they were knocked out like a baby. He was very close to death but fortunately was taken to the hospital. GHB does not require that much to have an affect on people. Especially when GHB is mixed with alcohol. A shot glass of GHB with alcohol can be deadly. I am not saying Natalee took this intentionally. The amount of GHB needed to have an affect is very tiny. Something like a teaspoon.

[islandlife]

Tsunder,

you keep acting like that, we won't send you more crack cocaine from Colombia

BTW: you are not a troll but a "drol"
Ask your dutch friends what that means

[KDM]

I used TIVO for the Croes interview as well and am very sure ANDRA of what he said. I was surprised to know what his association was, thus I relistened to it and there is no mistake, he contradicts the Holloway's. They were understandably upset and tired and things look different then. That is why it is good to hear from someone who was there and has no axe to grind and is not as emotionally caught up. For you who need to work on your reading and listening comprehension - this is not a slur on the Holloways - it is understanding the turmoil they were in BALANCED by someone who was just a bystander.

[andra]

Hello,

FBI agents are not allowed to comment on active cases. This individaul was a retired agent. That is a big difference.

[chaser]

Inspector James has solved it! Hurray! That's it, folks, pack your bags, show's over.....

[Dreamer]

WHEW. Dan's most recent analysis of scapegoating, or pinning all of the blame rather than PART of the blame on JVDS, in order to protect tourism/image goes along with riddles posted by Shango. Some of us believe in the riddles and the riddles, some of us do not.

Dan, however, is basing his analysis on "informed speculation." According to posters on this forum and on others such Scared Monkey and WebSleuths, the RiehlWorldview is highly regarded and trusted. Which should mean that he did not just sit down and make all of this stuff up and he did not base his conclusions on one or two posters.

My Point: It merits further speculation.

[color]

Moscow Girl
(The business man confirmed that he heard Natalee was drinking and took drugs. Was initiating contact/flirting with Joran.) Since Joran seems to be the only one saying this, then the business man heard it from him. So his confirmation means nothing.
You have no idea if Natalee's step father lied, do you? or if the business man friend lied, you were not there.
(Empty blabbering of Our Red Neck population.) Now just who would those be?
(Righteous Nationalistic Few will hurt your whole country reputation and image wise.)
Well you are dramatic I will give you that, and funny. Common sense would tell you that if Americans stopped going to aruba as tourists, it would be devastating for the Island and it's
people. So to say we would suffer more is so absurdly stupid. BTW The Stupid was for ALL the Empty Blabbering Red Neck of our population.

[islandlife]

Tsunder:

het is neuken en niet nueken

[andra]

I watched that interview myself and I did not hear any of what you claim to have heard. Remember Aruba doesn't get fox news KDM. An you are an aruban because I remeber you for scared monkeys. Now disprove that

[james]

Chaser,

More than what you can do.

[color]

Moscow Girl
(The business man confirmed that he heard Natalee was drinking and took drugs. Was initiating contact/flirting with Joran.) Since Joran seems to be the only one saying this, then the business man heard it from him. So his confirmation means nothing.
You have no idea if Natalee's step father lied, do you? or if the business man friend lied, you were not there.
(Empty blabbering of Our Red Neck population.) Now just who would those be?
(Righteous Nationalistic Few will hurt your whole country reputation and image wise.)
Well you are dramatic I will give you that, and funny. Common sense would tell you that if Americans stopped going to aruba as tourists, it would be devastating for the Island and it's
people. So to say we would suffer more is so absurdly stupid. BTW The Stupid was for ALL the Empty Blabbering Red Neck of our population.

[andra]

hello,

[fokje]

LOL Tsunder :)
would you like to 'neuken' with me 'op de dakpannen'? seems fun :)

[chaser]

tsunder & islandlife, zijn jullie nu helemaal van de pot gerukt?

[james]

Andra,

What?

[islandlife]

fokje:

go ahead call fox to report, at least we will have something meaningfull to see. Although i have my doubts about tsunder:

like shakespeare said: "Wine provokes the desire but ruins the performance"

[FlyingDutchFaggot]

SCREW ARUBA!
EVERY AMERICAN SHOULD BOYCOTT THAT HELLHOLE!
THAT WOULD TEACH TEHM!
SEND IN THE MARINES GEORGE!!!
THE TIME TO ACT IS NOW!

[chaser]

In Aruba Foxnews is available to people who have a satelite dish, ANDRA (ms. smartypants). You people think you know everything.

[islandlife]

Nee Chaser ik zit er nog op. God bless ADSL wireless

[bamagirl]

Moscow girl and others,

If Joran and the brothers are innocent of committing no crime, answer this for me please:

Why, when no one knew Natalee was missing, did Joran, Deepak and Satish have a "convienient lie" already prepared during the early morning hours of May 30th?

remember, the "story" about Natalee being dropped at the Holiday Inn is a CONFIRMED LIE.

Why would there be a need for a lie if nothing happened to her?

Answer: THERE WOULD NOT ......

[Dreamer]

Please don't give into nationalistic tender spots. The first focus here is on the missing Natalee Holloway. An emerging focus on Scared Monkeys and Websleuths long before here (which to me again means that Dan has not jumped on a bandwagon but has good info) is the illicit drug/prostitution/corrupt police issue not only in Aruba but in other "tropical paradises" as well.

I don't believe that this second focus is unfounded whatsoever. In fact, it is this young woman's disappearance and the ensuing refusal by the Twitty family, US bloggers, and Greta and Geraldo to go away that is driving this investigation. Any of us who wish to hold onto that idyllic tourists picture of Aruba, or of Miami, Key Largo, the Netherland Antilles, Costa Rica, Jamaica, etc. are looking the other way.

The tourist trade is important, but why? It's not just the money spent on a hotel room and a few meals out. It's the money spent on alcohol, gambling, and purchasing drugs and sex with no fear of being caught or punished that brings in the heavy money. Where do you think part of this money goes to? Or to whom?

[bamagirl]

Good post Color.... : )

[chaser]

TSUNDER, waar ben je toch? Je was zo leuk bezig in het nederlands. Je kwam bijna klaar met islandlife. Als we zo doorgaan worden deze amerikaantjes wel boos hoor! Dus laten we voorzitchtig hun in hun KONT SCHOPPEN! Da's nou even leuk.

[Mary]

Another question..How did dad know there would be no body.?? Was he the one that got rid of it. ?
Is that why he told the boys, without a body then they have no case?
They need to nail the dad. He had a part in this after the fact I feel sure.

[islandlife]

Dreamer,

Via wallstreet into the pockets of the shareholders. Who do you think owns all those hotels? Only locals?

[islandlife]

Tsunder, ze is al 20 jaar dood. ga gerust je gang

[bamagirl]

I agree with you Mary

[Midge]

I was so glad to hear the prosecutor say they will prosecute without a body. I think everyone should be outraged at Father's coaching, I can't imagine, if any of my friends had partied too hard and someone didn't return, their parents saying "if no body no case", that is so appalling.

[Mary]

KDM
Take off those Rose colored glasses !

[Moscow girl]

Posted by: cjcooker
"Moscow Girl
I just went onto Fox news, can you tell me where that transcript is located."

It was on TV. I recorded it. Doing my own transcript (i.e. putting on paper what's being said). I am sure the interview with the FBI agent will re-run at some point today, hopefully for all to hear.

The fact that a person imediately said "yes, but he is a retired FBI agent" is just another demonstration that some people want their version of the story to stick. If the same retired FBI agent would say something that would support the "lynch mob version", he would have been just fine..... :=)

Why could possibly be a reason for Joran and his friends "making up a story"?

First of all, Natalee's family and police came to Joran's house almost within 24 hours after that evening they all left together.

Very interesting that a "prospective murderer" would be "A-cing" a test 2-3 hours later, and possibly playing in a casino the following night...

The boys could have "made up a story" right after that visit!

Why they lied? Very possible because they committed a "lesser crime", possibly because something "un-gentlemanly" took place, possibly something that could link them to Natalee's dissapearance by default of being with her that night....; possibly because she "refused" them and they are embarassed..... and at the time they did NOT KNOW they will be accused of murder/kidnapping, and thought they will be brought in for "lesser issues". Maybe they were trying to "save face" over something else?

If a man at night robbs a house, thinking that no-one's inside, and later a dead body found in the house (jealous husband kills his wife, or something....)..... Of course the theif, when taken into custody, will think he is here for "robbery"...... not murder, if he did not kill her.....

This could possibly be the same type of situation....

(To those askin about "moscow girl". yes, I was born in Moscow and work in Russia. I am citizen of another country for the last 28 years.)

[fokje]

mary,
personally I think he just tried to prevent his son for making a confession for something he didn't do. He probably knows very well how interrogations proceed; Joran wouldn't be the first one who does a confession while he's innocent. (at least I think Joran is innocent)

[vcsiii50]

Dreamer
Yes!

[Stumped]

Midge - they didn't say they WOULD prosecute without a body, they said they COULD, but it would be very difficult, they would need a confession and some evidence - of which they have neither unfortunately.

[Beck]

fokje If Joran is innocent like you think. Why would he tell four lies?

[Dman]

Dreamer:

At at last a return to some rational commentary.

The big picture is the issues you have mentioned where ever they exist be it in the USA, Aruba, etc.

None of us or our societies is safe as long as the Vice lords can pile up huge sums of money and defy legitmate governments.

Maybe the best thing that could emerge from this whole awful experience is that the people of all nations will rise up and declare war on the purveyors of vice and the corruption that always follow it...it saps our resources as societies and steals the promise of our youth and future.

In fact that may be a major common goal that can be shared with Islamic militants...they see the same problems but react differently to resolve them.

[Stumped]

Beck - exactly - innocent people have nothing to hide, therefore no need to tell any lies.

[bamagirl]

Moscow Girl,

They did not make it up afterwards....they already had the story together.

Joran even took Natalee's parents and the police back to where he said they dropped her off that night. This happened in the early morning hours of the 30th.

Only PVDS knew she was missing because he claimed to be home alone that morning at 3:00AM>

No one seems to want to admit that FACT

And YES that is a FACT.... Documented

So why then, did they make up that story?

[Bobup]

Oook :) :)

[fokje]

I don't know Beck, I don't know where he lied about; is it changing a story on very critical points or just some additions? Several reasons can be given for telling a lie, or what you can call a lie. At least I'm sure he's under big pressure.

[bamagirl]

make that early morning hours of the 31st..sorry about that mix-up

[FreakyRussian]

BOYCOTT ARUBA EVERYONE
PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS
ARUBA IS NOT SAFE FOR TOURISTS

[Professor]

Lily wrote: Re Joran's "anger management class": The first time Anita vdS was interviewed by Greta, she was asked about this. Her response was that yes, she had "sent Joran away" for a time because of this issue, but that she'd thought of it as just "normal" kid stuff. This seemed to me to confirm that (a) Joran did indeed have anger management issues, and (b) that he not only had some sort of classes or therapy sessions to deal with the problem, but that it had been a serious enough problem that Anita had "sent him away."

Professor: I think she was referring to the Yoga and Meditation classes she sent him to. Isn't that precious? Yoga and meditation classes.

[mc]

Has anyone ever seen so many obvious lies, misleads and sabatoges of a case in your life?
Everyone from the suspects to their parents and the authorites seem to continually do the most unnerving things. Yet the simplist information and reactions point to a crime having been commited by one or more of the people involved. Now I am sure that I will be pounced upon for say Joran has proven his guilt. At least of telling lies. I have found that the reason a person lies is to hide a truth that will net unwanted actions.
Worse yet, he has proclaimed himself to be without religious beliefs, so he has only his conscience to atone to. I hope he is pleased with himself.

[bamagirl]

fokje

The only thing we can be certian that Joran has been truthful about is that Natalee was with them in the car......

[Not a Hand Wringer.]

Moscow Girl, take it from me. You won't get far on these boards by making sense.

Most people here want to do one, two or any combination of these:

- float their latest 'theory'
- insult Aruban Law Enforcement
- insult Arbuan integrity, while putting a cone of silence around NH and her potential complicity or responsibilyt in any of this.
- usurp Dutch law, for thier 'TV' version of US law
- punish Aruba, because they are frustrated with the speed at which the investigation is going, regardless of the fact that many US murder investigations take as long or longer
- cry foul, when America us criticised on the forum, even if the criticism is warranted.
- suggest vigilante justice.

You can't have a rational discussion with emotional and overwrought people who simply won't budge from their 'versions' of what's going on in Aruba.

[bamagirl]

I know mc, and how can the prosecutor say she is not sure there has been a crime committed here?

[bamagirl]

Not a hand wringer

I am not doing any of the listed things... can you answer my question? refute the facts I have stated? Give it a shot? Why the pre-planned story if no crime was committed?

[AnnaA]

I believe poster Lily was first to point out that this did not come from Geraldo at all but from Anita VDS the mother of Joren. She further went on to explain some of the reasons why, kicking his brothers being the one that caused my jaw to drop.

I heard this with my own ears so why is it being blamed on Geraldo like this? I am very disappointed to see this being peddled as truth for I am sure there is a transcript of the interview online on Greta's website for anybody who cares enough to get to the facts.

Yes, poor little Joren's own mother is trying to destory him and blame him for his own behavior. Wouldn't want him to have to take responsibility for that, now would we? First his mother was to blame had she been home none would have happened. Then Natalee was to blame coming on to him as he claimed she did (in his dreams!) and finally Beth Twitty arrived to so terrorize him he started pounding his chest at her and spewing forth lies!! Yes, poor, poor Joren.