Updated: 11:20 The angry mail is already pouring in for my making this post. Most of it is fully misinformed as to this site. When I give opinion, I say so. Do I think that Van der Sloot is likely a rich and privileged bully who liked to drink, drug, gamble and chase women? Yes. Do I think he is involved in Natalee's death? Absolutely.
My critique of Fox News has nothing to do with my opinion of Van der Sloot. It has to do with how a responsible News organization presents the news. Ideally it is based upon facts. Fox presented none tonight as regards the suspect. I am not defending Van der Sloot. I am taking exception to the choices made by Fox News.-- Dan
Fair and balanced seemed to be absent tonight from a Fox News profile of Joran Van der Sloot, one suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.
In a casual profile based upon little more than idle chatter and pure speculation, tonight Fox News presented what can only be described as a damning profile of suspect Joran Van der Sloot.
Fox reported that one mother of a child attending the International School with Van der Sloot told them Van der Sloot is alleged to have thrown someone through a plate glass window in Aruba sometime within the past year. They also stated there was no police record to support that allegation.
Van der Sloot was also characterized as a bully and presented as someone who might take advantage of his size and his Father's government position. Also suggested was that he had an "anger management" problem. However, no psychological records or formal reports were offered to support those statements.
Additionally they reported that there were images, now gone from his website of his fraternizing with "his tourist" gals. From my own review of the site prior to its termination, I recall pictures of Joran and friends, many female, but few I would characterize as looking like tourists from America.
They also pointed to his apparent indulgence in underage drinking, gambling and driving. As I recall, those aspects of his character were more than well-documented on his website. It seemed unusual to come across a picture where Van der Sloot and friends didn't have a drink in their hands, or were pictured outside of a club or casino.
The report led off by saying that depending on who you spoke with, Van der Sloot was either a good kid and an honor student - or a troubled teen with problems. However, they didn't report anything material to point to the former characterization. I have viewed and saved some files indicating his securing a position on the Honor Roll at the International School, as well as being commended for other educational and extra-curricular activities.
Updated: 11:10
A reader email from HarryTHO:
The Geraldo segment on Fox News this evening (Sunday 12 June 2005) brought in a few criminology experts who essentially went about degrading the reputation of the Aruban police as "irresponsible" and "inexperienced."
One expert went so far as to condemn the police in Aruba for letting the three kids go in order to allow them time to "lawyer-up, clean up their act and get their story straight." All four of the experts were credible, and I am sure they were convincing to the American public who watch the telecast.
Yes, that's true. I was disappointed in the earlier coverage, not because I support Van der Sloot, but because News should be News and not gossip. I'd rather they did their homework if they want to nail Van der Sloot - supported by facts, I'm fine with whatever the conclusion.
As regards the police issue, yes, it was damning, though they gave reasons why the Aruban authorities are not as experienced as we might like with this kind of crime. I thought that's what the FBI was there for, but I'm unaware of what, if any co-operative arrangement is being followed.
It would be good to know if the FBI is also being frustrated by the legal issues involved in overseas police work, or if they are satisfied with the progress of the investigation. It might be good for them to at least speak out a bit. I doub't they will. And that may not be a good sign, either.
This post is also available at Blogger News Network.
um.."jake surfer" wat da hell is up wth?? "Bring these punks to the justice in the United States where all of them can receive lethal injection" u dont knw shit bout aruba nor da ppl..aiight??so keep ur whole united states b.s. 2 urself...
Posted by: babygurl | Tuesday, June 21, 2005 at 10:32 AM
i juss read this from 1 of da ppl "These people in Aruba, are some pretty evil people. They are corrupt and liars. It seem to me that the whole system of a civilized society does not exist there. The gov. and legal system, as well as the people, can not be trusted at all." how can u say dat da ppl and da gov can not be trusted?!?! da gov. is doin ther best 2 help w/ da case!! n dont EVEN start talkin bout da ppl down here!! u think aruba is such a bad place rite??? well never think bout comin down here..we dont need or want shitty ass ppl like u...so keep ALL of ur shit up in da states..n how can u say dat a civilized society does not exist?? this 1 CASE has brought aruba 2 look like a terrible place but have u taken into consideration dat aruba has one of the highest economy's in da carribbean??? n how high the tourism rate is?? look i dont mean 2 offend any1 its juss dat aruba is a good place n so r da ppl. i juss cant stand others talkin shit about aruba n da ppl.
Posted by: babygurl | Tuesday, June 21, 2005 at 10:51 AM
I have a few things to comment about and throw out some thoughts for speculation.
I am an older person, around 60. I have two sons and pretty much knew where they were most of the time when they were in high school. We had an understanding.
These are the questions:
1. The attitute of Joran is despicable - if you had been seeing Natalee for several days, had gone out with her, you apparently liked her and would be concerned as to what had happened to her and offer help - not macho chest beating.
2. Have the police or reporters looked into the casino and whether or not Joran or his father/brother/mother owed gambling debts and maybe sold the girl to pay them?
3. There was a report two nights ago that a person from the Dario newspaper was following a suspect automobile and that Natalee was in the car. His name was something like Hubart. No one has ever heard that report again - what's the deal? He also said there would be a very nice ending to this story.
4. Why were the two black security guards arrested on just the word of Joran and friends, their houses searched and cars impounded that night/early morning of the same day they were arrested? When Joran was arrested, it was after his graduation from high school on June 9th. How nice that he was allowed to graduate before being arrested. Then, his house and automobiles were never searched/impounded until seven or eight days later. Why, so that his family could make sure everything was scrubbed out, bleached, fingerprints wiped and all clothing and other evidence was gotten rid of? Very strange that two different types of treatment were used on the two different races.
4. Also, why is it that no one can get the information right on Joran's father? The true story seems to be that his father is a judge's secretary and Paulus is studying, on the job, to be a judge also. He is allowed to take cases that are minor and work them. This would not make him a high ranking official, but it would make him very very well connected.
5. Why is a 17 year old boy coming and going as he pleases, until all hours of the day and night and well into the early morning hours on school nights, underage drinking, gambling and driving, without anyone stopping him - not his parents, not the owners of the casinos or bars - and obviously not the police or there would be a record of him having been arrested or picked up for doing some of these underage things. He is obviously out of control, somehow.
6. Also, the island of Aruba's officials say that this is not a usual case and things like this don't happen on Aruba. The first two days of this disappearance - on one of the major news channels, it was reported that there have been 14 disappearances of girls/women from Aruba since 1998 - after that, nothing else has ever been said - what's the deal - true or not?
7. Maybe the father has not been allowed to speak to his son, but the mother has been to see Joran twice. Don't the police think that the mother can pass on encouragement from the father and instructions from the father as to all of them keeping their mouths shut for the next 144 days. If there's no body, there can't be anyone charged - it has been said several times by the Aruban officials over the past two days. The father knows the law well and also, I'm sure, the mother.
9. Also, have the Kalpoe brothers parents not been to see them? There has been nothing said about their parents except that they are wealthy and own a business on the island. They go to the best schools which cost a lot of money.
Marianne Cross should be commended by the prosecutor's office and given a medal for the person who has talked more and said nothing - she is a joke and it is really tiring to here her spout off platitudes regarding the wealthy suspects and why no one could arrest or search and have to put on the kid gloves when dealing with the three of them; however, when dealing with the black security guards, the gloves were certainly off and the same rules didn't have to be followed.
No, I'm not black, I'm white - but, I read and I know what the Dutch put the South African natives through for years and how they are treated. There was one government official who alluded to a mini aparteid system being the norm in Aruba. Also, what louse would suggest that Natales's family should undergo lie detector testing to see if they had anything to do with her disappearance.
Lastly, What would you do if it were your son or daughter, grandson or granddaughter? I am sure that all of you to a person would frantically be doing everything possible to find your family member and would want respect and compassion from the police and officials. I don't think that laws are all that different, just that in Aruba, there is no breaking of the law for certain people.
Thanks for reading - this is just my family's opinion. S. Lane
Posted by: S. Lane | Tuesday, June 21, 2005 at 02:07 PM
wat da fuck is ur prob "atomicrooster"???
Posted by: babygurl | Tuesday, June 21, 2005 at 02:23 PM
This is for the several people who seem to know Joran Van der Sloot and who live in Aruba and go to school with him - babygurl and DushiDushi.
If you had seen Mrs. Holloway/Twitty sitting in a car holding her daughter's picture, would you have beat on your chest and said what do you want me to do about it? I don't think so, if you are honest with yourselves and think to the time that you may have a child and what would you do if something happened to that child. What Joran said and did is not a normal response unless someone is really mean.
Also, do you go out and drink, bet in casinos and drive around until the wee hours of the morning as high school students - on school nights? Do your parents let you do this, like Joran's parents apparently do? I am just thinking that you are not 18 yet, or have just turned 18. Maybe you are older as most of his friends seem to be.
Just an observation - S. Lane
Posted by: S. Lane | Tuesday, June 21, 2005 at 05:28 PM
hmmm, let's see, obviously, this Joran kid is just one of those big spoiled brat teenagers who gets whatever he wants and gets away with anything he does. he deserves to be shot.
babygurl obviously just barely turned 12. honey, the dude you are defending and considering as "your friend" has "PATHETIC LIAR" and "GUILTY" written all over his forehead. im pretty sure he had his fun with life already, but imagine poor natalee...thats a budding life that was probably wasted and trashed away by your friend.
your friend's antics and out of control. if proven guilty, may he burn in hell...on a stake.
Posted by: riptide crash | Wednesday, June 22, 2005 at 07:54 AM
dushi dushi and babygurl---> are you two members of the Joran Van Der Sloot Fan Club? maybe more like the president and the vice-pres. or maybe he was such a good f*ck...
babygurl, do you even read what you write before posting it online? because I dont think anyone can stand your spelling and your "real stupid and dumb valley girl-ish lingo"...
do us a favor, honey, do your homework, stay in school...finish at least the elementary level and stop defending your eye candy sugar criminal.
Posted by: riptide crash | Wednesday, June 22, 2005 at 08:04 AM
um..sorry if u cant understand my "lingo' look i am sorry if i offended any1 but i know joran n i juss dont think he could sumthing like this...n i knw da family 2..but sum of u people just dont know him so how can u judge him? i feel rly bad for natalee's family, i am not saying that i dont. n 2 those ppl that think that i am in elementary, im not. i didnt want to make enemies while trying 2 defend joran but i hav. but sum ppl hav different perspectives. n atomic rooster, say wat u hav 2 me but leave my parents out of it..ok??
Posted by: babygurl | Wednesday, June 22, 2005 at 02:24 PM
oops!! i meant "i dont think he could DO sumthing like this
Posted by: babygurl | Wednesday, June 22, 2005 at 02:27 PM
I have been totally impressed by the reporter
Gretta Van Sustran. I saw her show, it was amazing.
I have been learing about people, body language, etc.
I feel, and wouldnt be afraid to "bet the farm"
Mr. Van Der Sloot, this man HE KNOWS WHAT HAPPEND.
As for the people here that call Joran a friend,
should really be out in the world......proclaiming his innocence....I have not heard or seen one of you, with all the news media STEP UP TO THE PLATE FOR HIM.
When u do, you I have no doubt find that us older folks who have experience with young ones,
WE REALLY DO KNOW ABOUT CHILDREN LIKE THAT.
I pray for the Holloways every day for at least of all TRUTH. and as soon as possible
Posted by: KATHY | Wednesday, June 22, 2005 at 05:27 PM
Please...let us not start a feud between the U.S. posters and the Arubian posters..
Aruba is a beautiful island and visiting there has brought pleasure to millions of Americans.
Visit Dallas, Texas and listen to advice on where to drive, visit after hours.
Visit New Orleans and enjoy the French Quarters but dont' walk alone on the back streets.
Visit NYC and have a blast..but be careful..
All these cities are tremendous visits but they also have predators.
It is not the island's fault that this happened.
It might be the Island system that created the perception that justice was not served.. But remember, justice is pretty beaten up here in the US to.
So..smile..and do some cyber space hugs and remember the good times..they will come again.
In the meantime..keep brainstorming to figure where this girl/woman is and what happened. I like the info about the caverns. But from day one I said, check out the boats.
Renenber..the Loeb/Leopold murderers were "geniuses" and planned the perfect crime killing a young neighbor child just for kicks.
Brains and Character are not always running in tandem.
We have a son of prominent family here in US who walked from a crime in Florida and this week is in headlines here again after several years and after becoming a doctor..He didn't stop his wicked predatory or deviant behavior..and his family connections will likely let him walk again.
Prominent family member's son killed a neighbor girl and spent many years in Europe at ski slopes and resorts living well escaping prison.
It happens..its not just Aruba..
And every school has bullies and we all know who they are when we are the class mates..so it will all come out.
Posted by: coralee | Wednesday, June 22, 2005 at 10:16 PM
sad but true, but i have to agree. it is not the island's fault, but i think they should at lest speed up the whole process of finding the poor girl and the invstigation. we need answers. sure, natalee made mistakes that night but that doesnt mean she should disappear or maybe, die for that.
it is not fair that some rich kid can get away with something because of the island's system and that could be a reason why americans are blaming the island.
Posted by: riptide crash | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 01:47 AM
checkmejune13
I think you are truly sick. You have the nerve to say it is illogical for a white dutch boy to committ such an act. However, it is logical that the two surminese brothers of color more than likely got involved in drug dealing and smuggling"without the knowledge of course of the white prince" only for protection because he wouldn't be looked at as hard since his father was a judge and knew influential people. Right there you said it all. Out of all the comments on this site that is the most blatantly racist comment that I have read and I take offense to it. Was it logical that the two innocent black men who Joran (white dutch boy) accused of being involved in the crime correct. What is logical that this white dutch boy used teh two brothers (people of color) by threatening and bullying them in to helping with his cover up. After the fact of course. I am sure what happened is this spoiled bully, drunk white dutch boy gave Natalee and date rape drug which she died from or more than likely she denied his advances and he killed her. These two brothers probably wasn't even in the car. Or either they were left in the car while van de sloot took a walk on the beach winking at the brothers to stay behind while he get him some good american ass. He probably put up a struggle with Natalee as she became aware of what he was doing to her and he hit her over the head with a rock or chocked her which would not have been difficult at all since she was enibrated one way or the other. He then panicked ran back to the car and told the brothers what had happened when they didn't want to get involved he threatened them and said they are already involved who will they believe me or you, or something to that effect. He probably blackmail them into helping and keeping quiet. He also told them that "my father will know what to do" since his father has done it so many times before at which time he reported to his father when he return and his father put the wheels in motion with the help of the Arubian government by detaining innocent black men just to keep the public's mind occuppied and believing they had suspects giving Mr. Van de Sloot time to clean up all the evidence. These brothers are just two more victims of the Van De Sloots. It is not logical you say to believe this white dutch adolescent could commit a crime. First check your history. Remember it was the White Dutch who came into south africa and stole their land, gold and even civilization and keep them occuppied for centuries. abusing, killing, murdering and raping virtually slaves on their own land. Now you say it is illogical for a white dutch boy to commit a crime but it is logical for a person of color amazing don't you think. You contradicts yourself also when he states that the brothers knew bascially there would be no reprocussions if they his behind the white dutch boy since his father is a judge and they all have political connects. That says it all right there. You admitted that this child of privilege is above the law, untouchable so much so that others flock to be in his presence because he will serve as their protector if they are in his company. Once again check the whietman history, of serial killers, child molestors, thats a big one and familialcide even bigger each day. It is kids like Van de Sloot who ends up killing their own parents as they sleep. Then someone like you appears on the network screaming this is a good kid, well it was only yesterday he came by and fed my dog, there was no sign of any trouble, blah, blah, blah. Whatever happens in reference to your child slaughtering you in your sleep with comments from you and those who agree with you I must say it wouldn't be a great loss
Posted by: hollylouree | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 10:26 AM
re: baby girl and other fan member of van de sloot
Both of you are sick kids who needs help. I wonder if you two had been present would you have helped van de sloot get rid of the body. There is a body now even if no one wants to believe that. Within the first 72 hours when she wasn't found it was over. But to read you illerate writing means that you of course has some cognitive issues. So, I guess I shouldn't expect too much coming from the two of you. You defend a guy who lied about bring the girl back to the hotel. He didn't show up on the videos of bringing her back no l. He lied and put the blame on two innocent black men and put them and their families through hell. You call him a nice guy. What is your definition of a bad guy. Fortunately there are only two members in his fan club on this site and both has cognitive problems so what does that say for his friends and supporters. You told one writer to keep your parents out of it. Van de sloots parents especially the father obviously isn't out of it since he more than likely help to hide the evidence after being given time by the Arubian authories to do so while two black men suffered. Your parents are either liking in parenting skills are you just didn't listen when they gave you sane advise judging from privilege white kids I would say the first analysis would be correct. Just do what you want to whom you want and there will be no repocussions because we got your back, we will cover for you sounds familiar little girl your parents more than likely are as sick as you are.
Posted by: hollylouree | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 10:43 AM
dan I can't believe some of your comments. I expect you are a white male. Only a white man would write such non sense. What I gather from your text is simply obscurd you state that you believe that this guy probably committed a crime maybe even murder but you are appalled that FOX NEWS doesn't give the kid his props. He should be promoted as the JOCK and HONOR student rather than this distasteful unreliable information of him being a bully, drunk, etc. There are no facts to prove it you say. How stupid can you be, since when will there be a paper trial of judges son committing any crime. The incident in the school with him throwing a kid the glass etc. Wake up Dan. This kid's record will be unbelimished he will be going away to the states soon to college and certainly an honor student and jock couldn't possibly have done anything wrong in the past. All of this bullshit about equality and justice and proof is just a bunch of baloney. Where is justice for Natalee parents. At least the van de sloots know where their child is and in my opinion right where he supposed to be. The kid lied about dropping Natalie off. Why did he lie? It seems to me people like you who attacks good reporter such as Geraldo feel that they may one day become victims of this reporting. Could it be that your own children gives you that fear. Are you trying to protect all children of privilege knowing that it may be your child next and you would certainly want them to be remember for their ability to play soccer rather than the fact that they raped or killed someone. Further you would rather that a code of silence be conducted and anybody who speaks out will be harassed. I am sure this is the case here. If the news media say they have a source then they have a source. They are obiligated to protecting that source I certainly would not want to be responsible for someone's demise because they talked too much. Also you stated that there is no information documented on several claims once again, I say to you of course not, but this doesn't make it not happened it only proves that the system is at work again to protect this individual. However since you think we should all stand up and chant Van de Sloot is Jock and Honor student I bet your money you haven't seen any of those documents either have you Dan?
Posted by: hollylouree | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 10:56 AM
Hollylouree: don't be so sure V Sloot will be going to school in Florida.
Florida survived Ted Bundy and they won't be too eager or rash to allow sloot in even to go to school
It may not seem fair..but he does need visas to attend school here..and it might not be so simple for him to keep the one he has or to get one . It not ugly..even tho we have innocent til proven guilty here..we also can refuse people entry based on moral character. doesnt' have to be convicted.
For right now I would suggest refusal of his visas to enter US.
So, he might not come off this thing "clean" ...He can travel to Holland for his education.
Alabama is close to Florida..and I dont' think he will be welcome in Florida at this time.
Yes there are consequences to bad bahavior.
Posted by: Coralee | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 12:38 PM
I feel resolution at hand, hearing that DADDY VANDERSLOOT ARRESTED. Will have to wait and see. BUT its now gonna be the TRUTH :)
Posted by: KATHY | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 03:25 PM
HEY ARUBANS, YOU BETTER GET TO A RESOLUTION FAST!! IF YOU LET THESE FIVE SUSPECTS FREE FOR LACK OF EVIDENCE YOUR ISLAND IS GOING TO GO BROKE, AND YOUR ECONOMY WILL COLLAPSE! THE PEOPLE OF THE USA WILL BOYCOTT YOUR TINY ISLAND, SO YOU BETTER PLAY YOUR CARDS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Jeff | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 04:47 PM
Ringleader's father Paul Van Der Sloot is being viewed as a suspect in the case of Natalee Holloway, a missing 18-year-old from suburban Birmingham, Alabama, Mariaine Croes said. He was arrested about 2 p.m. Thursday.
"He's a suspect," Croes said. "There's a reasonable suspicion that he knows something."
Posted by: Jake Surfer | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 05:56 PM
SON -- Guilty of the crime. FATHER -- Guilty as an accessory after the fact.
Posted by: Robo | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 07:36 PM
What is there left to say. Too many smoking mirrors have been placed in front of the public's eye in this case. Mis-information seems to the normal mode of operendi in this case. Seems like the boys were counciled well prior to there detainment. What really needs to happen is a Boycott of Aruba by Americans. Punish the powers to be via economics. This is definitely a messed up scenario with many players. Will we ever know the truth. The only truth now is to stay out of Aruba, and definitely refrain from sending any of your children over until justice can prevail. BOYCOTT ARUBA, BOYCOTT ARUBA.........punish their behavior. If you have children of your own.....follow other examples of Boycott.
Posted by: Justice9 | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 07:45 PM
I am American and I think the bashing of Aruba is disgusting. You people have never even been there.
It is wonderful Island and the people the nicest you will ever meet.
Do you think the the us loyal Tourists are going to boycott Aruba, you are off your f'ing rocker.
Aruba has been pushed to arrest half the Island because of the Media coverage. How many Americans go missing every day, are raped and killed and no one gives a shit?????????
You people are a bunch of ignorant rednecks, who never probably passed the mason-dixon line putting down people from other countries.
Get a life
Posted by: Holly | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 08:15 PM
ohhhh so interesing but not surprising to hear daddy is arrested.
There old adage: absolute power corrupts absolutely.
My first suspicion that daddy involved was that mommy was in Holland when this all happened.
Mice will play when wife away..and rats will do worse.
I don't think he going to be so prominant a judicial figure after this..
and I remembered something from another case ago that made me go Hmmmmmm...about daddy.
We say here in Texas....apples don't fall far from the tree..
Too bad the cadaver dogs can't get onto the island ..they really are great at scenting out bodies so if there is a body and it on ARuba they could find it.
I was in sheriff's office today on business..no I wasn't being arrested..but as I sat waiting, the drug dog handler came thru the room with this beautiful German Shepherd Dog who made a direct line to me, my lap, my purse...He was so affectionate..
Well, we all had a good laugh...he went right for me. The reason? I have two female poodles who had been close that day...drug dog or not, on duty or not, boys will be boys.
Oh, no didn't have drugs on me. Dog did have right priorities tho.
Posted by: Coralee | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 10:52 PM
Never been there, but let's face it, this happens everywhere all the time, this happens to be one case that hit the media.
Young Van der Sloot looks like an arrogant thug and I have no doubt he is the one who knows the truth. His father gets brought in and now his story is changing, first he blames his "buddies", then they blame some security guards.
This kid is a menace, and I hope they figure out what happened and Bring Natalie home, dead or alive.
Sounds to me like the father has a lot more information than he let on, parents will go to a lot of trouble to protect their kids, this guy is no different.
When I saw the first picture of Joran, I knew he was an arrogant scumbag and without a doubt I believe he is responsible for what happened. His pic reminded me of Scott Peterson, smug, arrogant, unfeeling and above the law.
I hope they beat the hell out of him to get the required information.
Posted by: Wade | Friday, June 24, 2005 at 12:55 AM
Cora Lee
Great idea, hope it works. It is amazing that my missive was written at nine clock this morning to some idiot who wrote that Van de Sloot is not guilty because it defies logic since he is a white dutch kid of privilege. However, he named to the two brothers as the culprit since they are people of color accusing them of being drug dealers etc and hiding behind van de sloot for protection since he obviously has the island wrapped around his fingers. Around noon we got the news in wisconsin that the father is arrested just as I predicted at 9:00.
I hope you are right he doesn't deserve to go to school here in the states are anywhere else for there matter the only institution of higher learning he should be attending for the rest of his life is a penal institution.
You are right though, Alabama is too close to Florida being originally from Louisiana I know the south has a way of protecting their own be it black or white. I am an African american woman who took extreme offense to the way this investigation was handled in the first place with the arrest of the two security guards, imagine the horror their families went through and the nightmares their small children had of their fathers being lynched or dying for something that they didn't do. I know they don't have the death sentence in aruba but try telling a child that.
To the idiot who wrote that we have never been to aruba, sorry honey you are not the lone world traveler. I have been there many times as a flight attendant. There is nothing so great about aruba that we don't see right here in the states. There are hords of drugs there and you don't have to look for them they approach you agressively and there is no seedy place on the island. It doesn't matter where you are or where you stay they come after you. They are very offended at those who say no. So don't you tell me about aruba. Fuck aruba and their sick government that protects the rich who commit crimes and send innocent poor black to jail in their stead.
Posted by: hollylouree | Friday, June 24, 2005 at 01:29 AM
Holly...you really do know the South..and sounds like you understand it.
People who have not experienced the deep South assume that we are all rabid racist. They do not understand or appreciate how far we have come in race relations and the things we have seen. If white people in the South had not aided in the desegration efforts it would simply have never happened. I tell young black people..watch old film of the Mississippi March..look closely ..look at those old style pickup truck campers alongside the road..those were cook tents..and look at who is manning them..white women from churches all across the country..standing at the roadside feeding the marchers as they came past. These marchers were not going to be allowed to sit and eat in cafe's along the way..The women defied husbands to make that trip and in the 50's it was something to defy a husband.
They were right to do it..and few people know or remember what they did.
People my age are the ones who supported intergration here..we were toddlers when we were exposed to WHITE ONLY water fountains, black people had to go to back door of cafe's and couldnt' sit at the lunch counter at wool Worth's.
We did not think it fair..I dont' remember it as a racial injustice thing in my young mind..just that it wasn't fair. So when the sit ins at these places started in the 50's we were there silently supporting the college kids who travelled to the South to perform the sit in's.
I still see things that are not fair. And I saw a lot in the arrest of the two black guys as not fair. It reminded me of the South of the 40's.
There were things in Aruba that bothered me...pricked my conscience i guess is the best way I can express it. Made me uncomfortable.
Maybe it was simply that everybody in power had names that started with Van der somthing or other ..
Maybe Aruba will become a better place..not that its all bad..and parents will find out more about where they allowing their children to go alone.
Maybe it was that I questioned why a high school team of coaches would choose Aruba for the school senior trip year after year? one trip..ok..so they look around and say, opps, maybe not the best place to bring a bunch of 17 18 year olds..but year after year..they knew what the island was all about.
I am not saying Aruba is BAD..I just commenting that it maybe isn't the place to take a hundred kids without parents.
I talked to a friend last night who was saying..oh, I let my daughter go on a trip with four friends and a mom to Cancun when she was 17 ..I had no idea what ARuba was like.
I reminded her..it wasn't Aruba..it was the lack of guidance.
i had told her when this first happened..its the wind..the wind drives me nuts..its so steady and constant..that wind.
Look at the hair blowing in each interview...it is a constant wind like that..Its like being in a convertible all the time with top down..the wind.
The Aruba story has all the ingredients ,,...gossip...race...sex...social injustice..power..and the abuse of power..Mercedes and jalopies..children...scandal. sex again...violence..mystery..heartbreak..tragedy...so called Royalty
It like that old country western song..the one that has mama hit by the train...its got everything. Except maybe compassion.
The compassion is coming from you guys..in the manner of the blog.
Where else could we discuss this in such a way?
I feel as tho I know some of you young people who are expressing your concerns and frustration over this case. I am reassured that you young people are going to "get it" with life . I not afraid to hand over the world to you. You are much more aware then I was at your age.
The world was my oyster in 1950..today, the world might be your oyster but I am afraid at times someone already took the pearl out.
Posted by: Coralee | Friday, June 24, 2005 at 08:45 AM
Dutch scumbags, Paul and Joran Van der Slut, are going down big time!
Posted by: Jake Surfer | Friday, June 24, 2005 at 06:45 PM
Hollylouree
From all of your emails you are a very angry person who does not like white people. You turn a possible murder of a white girl by a white guy into some kind of racial thing. You are insane.
I was simply defending an Island. If people on Aruba to constantly ask you to buy drugs you must either look like a crack head or hang out in some very strange parts of the Island.
I feel very bad for the passengers on the airlines you work for.
Posted by: Holly | Friday, June 24, 2005 at 08:08 PM
I still at this moment think all of this could have been avoided.
Hearing Joran say to his mom "If you woulda been here I would not have been out so late," and for her to tell that to the media is somewhat I feel a bit rediculous. I would have to tell my kid at 17, and i tell my kids at 16 and 21 "ITS TIME TO USE YOUR OWN HEAD." I woulda told Joran to spare me of the manipulation. To me that in and of itself tells me hes a troubled young adult that is not certain of any house rules or rules of life in general. once again BLAME IT ON MOM.
If that were my child and he ever returned home.
there would be no mistaken the rules NONE AT ALL
Posted by: KATHY | Saturday, June 25, 2005 at 08:26 AM
Don't despair holly..I did not read racist in your post..I read someone who has experienced the South..its good and its warts.
We do have a tendency to protect our own..and it doesnt' matter whether its black or white..if you part of the community in South..you included.
Someone from away would not feel or understand the nuances of the southern culture.
I loved the "steel magolia" reference when describing Mrs. H..yes we talk with this mellow little drawl..but when it comes to the draw we can be touch as steel..hence the term.
I went to bed troubled over the developments over the past few hours..the more questions that are answered seems the more there are raised.
Going fishin' ...taking the weekend off and clearing my mind of all this horror.
Posted by: Coralee | Saturday, June 25, 2005 at 12:32 PM
Look..Joran was with her..she was not about to leave him...she trusted this handsome alluring guy...but little did she know about his problems...drinking..egocentric..ladies man..unsupervised...possibly drug oriented(suspect so)and beyond the law(father will redeem him)I have no doubt about it...I will never visit a Dutch country again...and possibly will rule out all the islands... this is so unjust and unfair...........
Posted by: peg smith | Sunday, June 26, 2005 at 08:01 PM
I'd just like to point out a few facts to put a
perspective on Joran van der Sloot's behaviour as far as
drinking beer and going to nighclubs etc.
In continental Europe (Aruba follows the laws of Holland
for the most part) people are treated like adults at an
earlier age than in the U.S.. In continental Europe, where
I grew up, a person is considered a 'young adult' at the
age of 16 by law. One is allowed to go to pubs and drink beer and
wine (not hard stuff) at the age of 16 (sixteen). In Aruba
the bars and hotels post an 18 year age limit on the walls
but this is intended for tourists which mainly come from
America. They had some bad experiences with American 16
year olds drinking until they pass out and then their
parents would show up and make a scene about serving
alcohol to 'little children'.
For us growing up in Europe it seemed quite natural to go
to a pub at the age of 16+ and have a couple of social beers
with friends. Noone would get out of hand and if you did
your friends would let you know how stupid you were.
So, as far as the Aruban Joran van der Sloot and his
friends going out for a couple of socials drinks isn't
absurd. He did graduate with honors and has physics and
calculus advanced studies completed where he got A's and
B's. It is really hard to believe that a 'normal' young
adult as this would all of a sudden turn into a murderer.
My understanding is that he liked the girls and had his
share of them (this is also not uncommon in Europe at
this age) - so the notion that he would need to use a
date rape drug on the girl doesn't sound right either.
I agree with Wm that I feel sorry for all of the families
involved and think that if anything did happen it was
probably an accident. My feeling is that if something
did happen Joran would have called an ambulance or the
police - just a personal feeling from what I've seen of
him on the news. Just because he likes to party and have
fun with girls isn't abnormal for a 17 year old European
and doesn't make him a bad person - his achievements in
school and from what his friends have said about him
says alot to me.
Posted by: Lars Nilsson | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 12:59 AM
I am not trying to turn the dissappearance of Natalee Holloway into a "race thing" but power relations involving race and class may be biasing the investigation of her case.I would like to remind alll of the history of racial tension existing on the island of Aruba. Racial segregation is still evident in Aruba.
Some areas of Aruba (SAN NICOLAS) are inhabited by blacks and recieve much less of the wealth and attention of the government than the white areas.
Isn't it at least a bit disturbing that a black security guard was the first person they tried to pin down as the culprit? And that they arrested and released this other black DJ dude "for lack of evidence"?
Besides, now they have a Dutchman Joran to pin down, and Dutch people (or Macamba's as they are derogatorily called on Aruba) are not whole-heartedly either by the Aruban elite. I am not defending Joram van der Sloot, but some traces of post-colonial resentment still exist, and may be biasing this investigation. Even though Dutchmen are white and will have a good economic position on the island generally, Arubans would rather see a Dutchman burn rather than one of them. Wonder why they would blast Joran's name all over the American news media, while this is against normal investigation procedures in Dutch law?
On a different note, it is unfair to speak of Joram and the brothers as criminals and to admonish others for defending criminals. Even though we took some poeple off the streets and dumped them into jail, it is still unknown who the culprits are. Aruban and American justice systems have the same principle of: INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY, but it seems that many US and Aruban people have a hard time understanding this.
Now people, lets get serious: party Pics on an internet Weblog do not qualify as satisfactory evidence of juvenile delinquency or brattiness, and neither do straight A's qualify for evidence of the impossibility of Joram being involved in Natalee's dissappearance
People just really want to see someone go down for this, they want someone to blame. Let us not let our desire for retribution cloud our eyes to the truth.
All the best to all involved in this dissappearance. Those who did wrong, they know they should pay.
Posted by: M | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 06:09 AM
I personally find FOX news to be more sensational than anything. I do like some shows on there, but for the most part they take a story and harp on it over and over and over. Now that the Laci Peterson thing is done, we have Natalee Holloway. I don't know what to think of Joran. I only know what I have seen on the news. He seems like a 17 y/o "party boy" that was allowed to run buck wild and do what he wanted. This alone does not make him a murderer in my eyes. The fact that he was one of the last to be seen with her makes him a suspect in my eyes.
To all these people that say "Oh bring him to America...justice would be served here" "In America he would have been locked up long ago..." and so on. That's crap. Maybe, and maybe not. All kinds of highly suspectible and high profile crimes/criminals have been let off here too. A Few off hand: Robert Blake, OJ Simpson, John and Patsy Ramsey...just to name a few. (No I'm not saying these people actaully did anything but many can say the "hid" behind their money) So we are not all about "vigilante justice" here either.
I wish our police could just go in there and take over the whole investigation, it seems like things might move faster. But the fact of the matter is we can't just go tromping in and take over because it's not our country! If this had been reversed...Natalee was from aruba and disappeared in america...do you think we would allow Aruban "Polis" to just come here and conduct and investigaion. NO!!!
Anyway I've been up all night and am tired so I appologize if I sound like a dipshit. I just hope for the sake of the Holloway family this investigaion can come to a resolution and their daughter is found.
Posted by: Jenny226 | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 07:05 AM
I am CONFUSED. Please help! Is the drinking age in Aruba 16 or 18. Theres gotta be some legal ramifications here, unless the law is bendable in aruba. As it is at times in AMERICA.
Posted by: KATHY | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 08:59 AM
To sum it up:
Joran knows something.
This is not a story about racism.
Some Americans are ignorant.
There will be no boycott.
Some Arubans are ignorant.
Joran was the last person to be seen with her.
Aruba is a beautiful island with nice people.
Natalee's friends were not friends.
Natalee's chaperones were not chaperones.
rtng lik dis mks u lk stoopd n mks it hrdr 2 gt ur pt acrs.
The USA has the same problems as Aruba.
Arrogance is the sign of a closed mind.
Posted by: tymmas | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 09:54 AM
premeditated murder? premeditated means you planned it out. there's no way anything was planned
Posted by: bullaman | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 12:06 PM
Still my heart cries for poor Mrs Holloway-Twitty that deserves an answer. People are corrupt everywhere. Not just Aruba but America as well.
Its poor Natalees mom, my heart bleeds for.
As far as Natalee is concerned: of course she thot Joran was a handsome prince, she knew no better!
Mr. Van der sloot makes me cry, cause you can see in his eyes the man just knows. I dont believe how many deals he makes.....I just hope he never in his life sleeps another nite....if he knows...and i would bet he does!
The money and influence will end someday, and then they will see who they are. Still another sad day for Aruba.
Posted by: KATHY | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 02:14 PM
We watch it, but the "mad dog" media is out of control and irresponsible for reporting sensationalizm. Geraldo needs some "muse" for his hair, Greta, I'm just not sure about you, but you are selling news. I always belived journalism was to report the facts. Today I see little that Greta or Geraldo have reported that one could hang their hat on. And all you folks that jump on the susposed "panels". Most of you are rediculis just looking for sensationalizm for a few minutes of "look at me." Fox News you are getting a little extreem; look at yourselves, then learn what factual reporting can do. Look at the foolish way Dan Rather ended his career.
Facts: Joran picked up a "bimbo" willingly.
Where were the chaperones?
Where were her friends?
Twitties want to be seen on television.
Geraldo wants to create suspision.
Greta wants to create suspision and doubt.
Respect the Aubran system for not letting the crazed media run all over them by leaking information that we do not need to know at this time nor do the Holloways. There may be a crime, there may not be a crime. Let them do their job. Then you all can go berzeck with your talk shows and sensationalizm.
Posted by: Ron | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 03:32 PM
FOX NEWS ROCKS!!!!!!!!!! THE FACTOR IS THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO THE NEWS INDUSTRY!!!!!!!! BILL OREILLY IS THE GODFATHER OF THE ANCHORMANS!!!! I DON'T CARE IF PEOPLE DISSAPPEAR EVERYWHERE, THIS GIRL'S CASE IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF THE GOVERNMENT PROTECTING THE MURDURERS. BOYCOTT THAT ISLAND NOW!!!!!! AND DON'T GIVE ME THAT ARUBA IS NICE.. I DON'T REALLY GIVE A CRAP. WE'VE GOT FLORIDA, SO YOU CAN SHOVE THAT ISLAND UP YOURS!
Posted by: jeff | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 09:00 PM
THAT RIGHT!!!!BOYCOTT THOSE BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: MARK | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 09:02 PM
BOYCOTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: mark | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 09:06 PM
I think joran is innocent. He was framed. Go ahead and throw another kid in jail you superficial liberal bastards.
Posted by: D | Tuesday, June 28, 2005 at 12:09 AM
Kathy -
The Law in Aruba follows Dutch law. The legal age to drink beer and wine is 16 and 18 for hard liquor. This is the same as in all of continental Europe.
The bars and hotels post a sign on the wall that they will only serve to 18 year olds but that is meant for the tourists which mainly come from the U.S.. They have had some bad experiences in the past with U.S. 16 year olds drinking themselves under the table.
So, the bars/hotels etc. will only serve 18+ year old tourists but will serve 16+ year old locals as the law allows. It is at the discretion of the bar/hotel.
Cheers.
Posted by: Lars Nilsson | Tuesday, June 28, 2005 at 05:13 AM
@jeff
innocent until proven guilty?
Posted by: Stefan | Tuesday, June 28, 2005 at 03:24 PM
I will formulate my personal opinion on Aruba by it's actions in this case....Personally, without hard evidence, I think Joran his father and the brothers are guilty of various crimes including murder, lying, hampering an investigation, and conspiricy. I also think that they will probably walk away because of the lack of foresnic evidence.
Posted by: jiminsandiego | Thursday, June 30, 2005 at 09:09 AM
How did she disappear? For starters she got in a vehicle with "3 STRANGERS!" She has to catch a flight the next day to go home and she decides to leave with 3 people "she does not know" instead of the people she attends class with everyday??? That's a no-brainer decision I don't care how much one's had to drink! She in all likelihood is dead because "She did not think!" I think its absolutely terrible what they or Van der Scum did to her....however, even if they took her home safely she still...."Put herself in position for something bad to happen" by leaving a bar with 3 strangers whom she knew nothing about! Some friends she had, huh? I hope those girls let this bother them the rest of their lives!! A girl leaving with 3 guys and of whom she knows nothing about to boot!! Go home with 3 strangers instead of the people you go to school with everyday....hey, makes sense to me! Women NEED TO THINK or it could be the last breath they take, unfortunately!! THINK! THINK! THINK!
Posted by: Jim | Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 05:45 AM
Jim
I do very much appreciate your note. And it makes perfect sense to me.
However, as I have a couple of hard headed teenagers of my own, I know, they think they are
the smartest people to hit the world! lolol Ya know, you can teach them and talk to them, yell at them, love them, pray with them. But in the end if its what there gonna do, THEY JUST GONNA DO IT.
Its just a sad, bad world......ARUBA NOT TO BLAME
USA NOT TO BLAME
This is youth, nievity, and power of people that is to blame here.
I am a firm believer that someday maybe not now,
the Holloways will get the answers.
If Vandersloots are to blame they will also get what they deserve.
As far as Joran, this will follow him forever,
Posted by: kathleen | Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 11:51 AM
I've looked into what Lars said about the drinking ages in Europe and Aruba and have found his statements to be correct. It is legal to buy and drink beer, wine, and other weaker types of alcohol in continental Europe and in Aruba at the age of 16 (SIXTEEN).
Young people in those places are treated more like adults at an ealier age than in America. When you evaluate a person's behaviour from Europe or Aruba, you have to keep in mind that a 17 year old would be acting and doing things a 22-24 year old American would be doing. It's not out of the ordinary that a 17 year old would go out to a pub or nightclub and have a couple of beers with friends.
One thing we in the states are used to is immediate information about the details of an investigation into a crimminal case. In Holland and Aruba this just isn''t the case. In fact, it's against the law for ANY information to be leaked to the public and can cause a case to be thrown out of court.
The case as it stands:
===================================================================================
1.) Joran is a 'average' to 'above average' Dutch 17 year old:
- He doesn't smoke.
- Does go to pubs and drink a few beers (BUT FOR
A 17 YEAR OLD THAT'S LEGAL IN ARUBA)
- Likes girls.
- Is a good student graduating with A's and B's
including advanced courses in Calculus and
Physics. Has an academic scholarship.
- No indication that he does drugs.
- His friends speak highly of him.
2.) Natalee seems to be an 'average' to 'above average' American 18 year old - On the trip:
- Is an honor student.
- She drinks to the point of intoxification.
- Reports of drug use.
- She dances provocatively (At Carlos and
Charlies).
- Has sexual contact with a minors (Joran).
- Her classmates say she's an angel.
3.) 130 students and 7 older adults go on an unofficial school graduation trip to the Dutch island of Aruba a few miles off the coast of Venezuela.
4.) On the last night of the trip one of the students, Natalee Twitty, goes missing.
5.) She was last seen outside Carlos and Charlies getting into the Kalpoe brothers' car with Joran van der Sloot and the bros.
6.) The two bros say they drove to the California lighthouse with Joran and Natalee in the back. Joran and Natalee start making out and the brother that owns the car starts getting pissed at them. The other brother tells him to just let them be. A story told by Joran says that she started acting goofy due to the drugs that she took at some point during the evening (Aired in an interview by FOXNEWS of some person who talked to Joran after that night).
7.) Story #1: They drive back to the hotel area and drop Natalee off in front of the hotel she was staying at. The Kalpoe bros. say she tripped and fell but got back up and stumbled towards the hotel - they drive off and drop Joran off at his home before going home themselves. Story #2: They drop Joran and Natalee off at the Mariott beach and drive home.
8.) Joran leaves Natalee at the beach because she asks him to.
9.) What else do the investigators have? NOONE outside of the investigative team knows!
10.) The absolute maximum sentence the 17 year old Joran van der Sloot can get is 10 YEARS IN PRISON if he is convicted for premeditated murder (or anything else for that matter!).
===================================================================================
The only thing one can say is that Joran made up a story about dropping Natalee off at the hotel in order not to be tagged as being the last person to be alone with Natalee on the beach.
Did he do this to cover up an accident or murder?
Posted by: Mark Prescott | Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 11:59 PM
This post is for Mark Prescott;
Were you there at the bar (Carlos and Charlies)that night?
It's obvious she was drinking, like most all of the others from her class.
DRUG USE?? Come on.... IF she used drugs it was not with her knowledge. The drug was put in her drink without her knowledge.
SEX with a minor???
If she did it was not consensual. (Are you bright enough to know what "consensual" means Mark?
It seems like you have all the "facts" ...NOT
I don't either, but like most of America I have been following this case very closely.
I pray for her and her family.
Two families are destroyed forever, but only one mother will never get to hold her child in her arms again.
My guess is YOU don't have a child... or maybe you yourself are still one.
If you are right about the prison time... 10 years is a very long time when you are 17... especially when some burley prisoner asks Joran,"Do you want to be the "husband" or the "wife"? You say the "husband"? OK suck your wifes D---!
Posted by: Angie | Sunday, July 03, 2005 at 01:52 PM