Updated: 11:20 The angry mail is already pouring in for my making this post. Most of it is fully misinformed as to this site. When I give opinion, I say so. Do I think that Van der Sloot is likely a rich and privileged bully who liked to drink, drug, gamble and chase women? Yes. Do I think he is involved in Natalee's death? Absolutely.
My critique of Fox News has nothing to do with my opinion of Van der Sloot. It has to do with how a responsible News organization presents the news. Ideally it is based upon facts. Fox presented none tonight as regards the suspect. I am not defending Van der Sloot. I am taking exception to the choices made by Fox News.-- Dan
Fair and balanced seemed to be absent tonight from a Fox News profile of Joran Van der Sloot, one suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.
In a casual profile based upon little more than idle chatter and pure speculation, tonight Fox News presented what can only be described as a damning profile of suspect Joran Van der Sloot.
Fox reported that one mother of a child attending the International School with Van der Sloot told them Van der Sloot is alleged to have thrown someone through a plate glass window in Aruba sometime within the past year. They also stated there was no police record to support that allegation.
Van der Sloot was also characterized as a bully and presented as someone who might take advantage of his size and his Father's government position. Also suggested was that he had an "anger management" problem. However, no psychological records or formal reports were offered to support those statements.
Additionally they reported that there were images, now gone from his website of his fraternizing with "his tourist" gals. From my own review of the site prior to its termination, I recall pictures of Joran and friends, many female, but few I would characterize as looking like tourists from America.
They also pointed to his apparent indulgence in underage drinking, gambling and driving. As I recall, those aspects of his character were more than well-documented on his website. It seemed unusual to come across a picture where Van der Sloot and friends didn't have a drink in their hands, or were pictured outside of a club or casino.
The report led off by saying that depending on who you spoke with, Van der Sloot was either a good kid and an honor student - or a troubled teen with problems. However, they didn't report anything material to point to the former characterization. I have viewed and saved some files indicating his securing a position on the Honor Roll at the International School, as well as being commended for other educational and extra-curricular activities.
Updated: 11:10
A reader email from HarryTHO:
The Geraldo segment on Fox News this evening (Sunday 12 June 2005) brought in a few criminology experts who essentially went about degrading the reputation of the Aruban police as "irresponsible" and "inexperienced."
One expert went so far as to condemn the police in Aruba for letting the three kids go in order to allow them time to "lawyer-up, clean up their act and get their story straight." All four of the experts were credible, and I am sure they were convincing to the American public who watch the telecast.
Yes, that's true. I was disappointed in the earlier coverage, not because I support Van der Sloot, but because News should be News and not gossip. I'd rather they did their homework if they want to nail Van der Sloot - supported by facts, I'm fine with whatever the conclusion.
As regards the police issue, yes, it was damning, though they gave reasons why the Aruban authorities are not as experienced as we might like with this kind of crime. I thought that's what the FBI was there for, but I'm unaware of what, if any co-operative arrangement is being followed.
It would be good to know if the FBI is also being frustrated by the legal issues involved in overseas police work, or if they are satisfied with the progress of the investigation. It might be good for them to at least speak out a bit. I doub't they will. And that may not be a good sign, either.
This post is also available at Blogger News Network.
You have to remember that Fox never lets facts get in the way of a story.
Posted by: EvenSteven | Thursday, June 16, 2005 at 11:59 PM
When I first heard about this story two things came to mind: 1. WHAT WAS THIS GIRL THINKING leaving with 3 guys she does not know? 2. Why weren't her friends looking out for her knowing they were leaving the next morning? What kind of friends were these? I found it strange she's hanging out with this local guy she does not know and spending so much time with him. Weird! You're on a graduation trip with your friends whom you know and trust and you leave a bar with 3 strangers you barely know? Give me a break! In this sick day and age you play it safe and leave with people you "KNOW" and "TRUST". These friends let her leave with 3 guys....what would they think is on these guys minds?? Monopoly?
I believe foul play like many others and Van der Scum and his buddies should pay the ultimate price if and I believe they are guilty. However, Natalee is probably dead because she "DID NOT THINK" (some straight A students can have the dumbest street smarts) and evidently didn't have close enough friends to make sure she went home with whom she should have gone home with. Those same "so called" friends will have the rest of their lives to think about it.
Posted by: Jim | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 05:50 AM
Jim, I totally agree with you!!!!
Even though no one has the right to enter our house, we have locks on our doors, because unfortunately the world is not as save as we would like it to be. The same goes for personal safety.
I hope this case will be solved in the coming days, so Natalee´s family will at least have some clarity and the guilty party/parties can be brought to justice.
Posted by: Naiya | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 09:14 AM
Aruba isn’t that big of an Island and the police have been looking for Natalee for 17 days now. Regardless of the lack of expertise in murder cases by Aruban police—- certainly IF Natalee was killed, wouldn’t she be found by now?? IF Van der Sloot did kill her, it was under the cover of darkness and panic probably ensued after the fact. How could he have hidden her body this well? It makes no sense to me. What about Amy Bradley? Her body hasn’t turned up yet either. Anybody believe there is a connection? Somebody with more experience with Aruba and that part of the world, tell me something about young, attractive girls (from any country) being kidnapped. Something. Anything. I’m telling you…. if she’s dead and on that Island, she would have been found by now. Just my two cents.
Posted by: Cincinnati | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 03:26 PM
I am wondering if the reason for the initials only being given out for the 4th suspect in Natalee's disappearance because he may be the Aruban Minister of Justice (Edward Croes) son?
After releasing the name, I realized that they share the same last name???
Has anyone heard about any connection?
Posted by: charlotte | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 03:38 PM
Is the 4th suspect related to the Aruban Minister of Justice? They have the same last name.....CROES!!!
If this is true, we'll see how justice prevails when the guy in charge is now put into an awkward situation.
Posted by: charlotte | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 03:44 PM
Is the 4th suspect related to the Aruban Minister of Justice? They have the same last name.....CROES!!!
If this is true, we'll see how justice prevails when the guy in charge is now put into an awkward situation.
Posted by: charlotte | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 03:59 PM
I have read all the postings and I find it amusing. Ravage talks about "a Pimp very powerful in the Caribbeans" and for all my years in the Caribbean reports of sex trade always refer to persons outside the caribbean being responsible.
A note to Charlotte...just because someone has the same last name, it does not mean they are related. Is Michael Jackson related to Jesse Jackson?
I agree however with the fact that after all this time, and Aruba is a small territory by comparison, there is the great possibility that Natalee is no longer alive. Van der Sloot does appear to be involved in some way, but because this case is not being presented in the press for pre-judgment, it opens itself up for speculation and that is what is occuring here. Allow the Aruban officials to do what they need to do to get to the bottom of the case. However, they should not be blamed if the case remains unsolved. Remember Jon Benet Ramsey?
Posted by: Jaybeth | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 05:17 PM
I can't believe how this case is getting sophisticated and implicating other suspects. I think this case will not only resolve the disappearance of Nathalee but also many other unsolved mysteries like disappearance , drugs cartels , traffics in Aruba. This will also shake things up in the Corruption of the Aruban Island. These kids don't want to talk and they are lucky they are in the custody of the Aruban "Dutch System" otherwise they'd be spitting blood to talk. They think their playing smart by keeping their mouth shout. I can't believe that today kids play so smart and give themselves too much importance.
Also it doesnt mean the dutch kid is A student that he is not involved because we all know the Greatest murderers were also A student and very wise people ... I feel so sad and I wish I could be in Aruba and help this Family out in so many ways. I hope like millions of People in the World she returns safe and in good health.
May the Lord do whatever he feels is the right thing . Lord if you read my prayer punish me for judging perhaps innocent people but please return safely Natalee to her Family. Amen
Posted by: Ravage | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 05:24 PM
Why the hell are people ranting on about fox news channel reporting. Lemme tell you something, if you are INNOCENT and have nothing to hide, you COOPERATE with law enforcement. These cats are obviously lying and hiding something, even the lawyer of the suspects indirectly acknowleged that one of the suspect had changed from his original story. The mother of Natalee is distraught and says she isn't getting any answers fom the laws, this is just bad... she has to hear things/rumors on the news... Sadly the daughter is most likely dead... nobody would just dissapear on Aruba without a trace unless foul play was involved... Since the 'polis' isn't giving any info why can't news station investigate the background of the suspects and report accordingly? And why does Van der Sloot take down his website... Hmmm maybe to hide clues of the type of person he is, yeah i'm pretty sure FNC has some agenda against Van der Sloot, right ..this is B.S.
Posted by: Ace_TX | Saturday, June 18, 2005 at 08:58 AM
What’s going on down in Aruba, how come your judges let their underage children drink and gamble and even do drugs then when they get in trouble cry to the world they are minors. This sucks, your cover up of the fact’s suck. You raid the homes of black folks but worry about being “cowboys” when it comes to your judges kids. This Van De Shit kid is not any better than the blacks you already walked all over. Aruba is going down over this just because you country can’t select good people to enforce your laws and then cover up their crimes.
How did dad know to take down Van De Slimes gang rape web site right before he got arrested? Isn’t that obstruction of justice (oh but justice for your elite is what this is all about). How come Van De Slut knew blaming this on blacks on Aruba would be a good thing to do. Why are the only leaks on the case trying to make Van De Smut look like an angle and trash Natalee? A lot of us are never going to Aruba. Angry Americans
Posted by: dawn murry | Saturday, June 18, 2005 at 10:35 AM
Again dumb americans doign comments with no sense...CROES for your information is a very common last name in Aruba...meaning that a lot of people have the last name Croes and probably without knowing each other..again if you don't know don't judge....there is a big chance that the 4th suspect is not related to Rudy Croes...please at least try to do smart arguments...
Posted by: The one that knows | Saturday, June 18, 2005 at 02:28 PM
ok, now nobody needs to be attacking aruba as a country or the "dumb americans"... this is about a family finding there daughter
main problem i have now is that the aruban officials have been sending fbi agents (who are only there to assist) back home and severely limiting the ones that are still there... if this is about pride they need to stop and let the u.s. agencies get more involved especially since there is an american involved
the longer they take to solve the case and every day that goes by without any answers about natalee for the family...the more aruba looks bad, and then if these 'suspects' end up being released after the holding period ends and still no answers and no natalee...ALL HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE!
Posted by: Ace_TX | Saturday, June 18, 2005 at 03:44 PM
all u ppl hav no clue wat ur talkin bout. joran is a good person and mayb he did fool around wth natalee but he wouldnt hurt her. i knw him and he would never put his entire future in jeopardy. n i remember seeing one comment dat asked where r jorans parents in this picture? da answer is his parents havent been allowed 2 see him. n yes he is an under aged drinker but still...he wouldnt do anything 2 hurt natalee. ppl need 2 bac off n notice wat joran is goin through...u ppl dont knw him, hav never met him in person, talked 2 him, been friends wth him or anything else. so basically u ppl r juss looking 4 gossip.
Posted by: babygurl | Saturday, June 18, 2005 at 03:46 PM
Usually in America this type of investigation would have been already pretty much advanced and near a conclusion. So it is obvious that there is a mystery. You guys think that myself a soon to be father that has many things to do in my life like to spend time in front of a computer? Well I do it to get latest developments on Natalee's disappearance because I care for this girl that I don't even know and it touches me to see how the Family is suffering clueless of where the daughter is. They just want their daughter back . Natalee is now part of my everyday life until there is a conclusion to this mystery and I can assure her Family that my thoughts are with them and I hope she returns safely . May God have Mercy on Natalee and brings her back to her Family.
A friend in Canada.
Posted by: ravage | Saturday, June 18, 2005 at 04:22 PM
"all u ppl hav no clue wat ur talkin bout. joran is a good person and mayb he did fool around wth natalee but he wouldnt hurt her. i knw him and he would never put his entire future in jeopardy"
well, your a good friend... however friends and family of a guy named Scott Peterson said the exact same things about him an many other criminals that once would never do anything like that
babygurl, do you believe they are holding him unfairly? when even the judge who gave the order interrogated van der sloot himself and felt he is not being forthcoming
Posted by: Ace_TX | Saturday, June 18, 2005 at 05:16 PM
This story still makes me so sick. AND it is correct why did not they look out for each other?the people on the trip. You can be a 18 year old and have been (protected) we all want our kids safe.
I still say this:
Lock up Vandersults parents.......these are the people responsable for this mess......he is UNDERAGE and shoulda been at home with his parents at that LATE HOUR for god sakes folks
hes a JUNVENILLE!!!
Posted by: kathy | Saturday, June 18, 2005 at 08:07 PM
I really wonder if the Aruban police know how to interrogate someone. I find it very hard to believe that there couldnt have been any more progress towards finding Natalee. Everyday I tune into the news during the day and for the last week, nothing new. A new face with a name today but not much else. Does anyone else feel like the rabbit being teased by a carrot on a string? I pray for her family to remain strong.
Posted by: Amy | Saturday, June 18, 2005 at 08:38 PM
Finally!i support and agree with babygurl...she is just right!i also know joran and he likes to obviouly date girls...i mean he is a guy!stupid americans!but he would not murder a person...no!not that!...and i can promise all of you he did'nt do it!...it seems like is too easy 4 all of u to watch the fox news and judge from your really far culture that joran is a murder!!!i so against all the comments against joran, since you guys don't even have evidience to proove that he did it!...STOP GOSSIPING!!PEOPLE DO STH BETTER!...cuz u r not even know about what this whole deal is about!...i mean you don't even know who joran it is...oh...sorry you guys know he looks...apperentely enough to judge....
babygurl...is right and u Ace TX...come to aruba and learn about us marico!
Posted by: dushi_dushi | Saturday, June 18, 2005 at 10:03 PM
All I can say is being a mother myself, I thank the good Lord it is not one of my kids. People can say what they want but no one knows until they have been there.
Posted by: patsy privette | Saturday, June 18, 2005 at 10:21 PM
Hello,
Having noticed this irony... Okay, if my information is correct, Van der Sloot and N. Holloway are about the same age or at least both graduated from high school recently. It is highly talked on Fox that Van der Sloot drinks... ? although the chaperones felt there group old enough to go own their own drinking and partying in a foreign country while this boy was at least in his typical environment. Let's face it, many high school students drink. High school students were drinking and having sex when N. Holloway's mother was that age. I know because I am that age. Despite the horror of this situation I can't help but say as an American, I am ashamed of Fox's attempt to destory Van der Sloot's reputation in a way that is more like Enquirer reporting. Here you have a group of kids flown to another country to party and drink and then condemn this boy as being a wild child bad kid.. I have looked at the pictures that were on Van der Sloot's website and find nothing that is surprising compared to what would be found with the average American teen. So the drinking age is lower in Aruba but the driving age is higher than America. Knowing that it is difficult to prevent teens from drinking, maybe preventing them from driving until later is a good idea. My point, maybe there are circumstances about their system that work better and circumstances about our system that works better. I actually see how not making all the information public at this point has an advantage, especially if N. Holloway is by some chance alive. Also, due to other people who are detained and questioned. For example, if the last one brought in, Crues, was able to hear what the brother's were saying on the news then does that make him more informed about how to answer his questions? The most I can determine about Van der Sloot from my observation is that he is a typical teen from a good home. What happened from there is unknown at this time. Until we know I think it is very unfair to bash this young person in the way that is being done on American news at this time. I feel he lied with the other boys about dropping her off at the Holiday Inn. What happened that night we don't know. What he was doing before that, from what I can find, is being used to establish a profile that might be completely false. Until then it is, in my opinion, sorry for grown men and women reporters to try to keep a story going during times when there is no new factual news by speculating and trashing a teenager. I think if some of the reporters knew what their teenagers do at that age, drinking , party, and so forth they might have to eat their words. Having noticed that I can't find anything to suggest Van der Sloot a bad teen, I am concerned how much more reporting by Fox news that I have heard regarding other topics might have also been one sided irresponsible reporting. Another point, if the chaperones became aware on the trip that people were trying to sell drugs that should have been a wake up call that drugs could be a problem. It is highly likely that some of the students on the trip from alabama are drug users. Let's face it, American teens are using drugs and drinking. Something obviously happened the night N. Holloway and Van der Sloot and the brother's left which could be an isolated incident and not that Van der Sloot was a freako waiting to happen. In fact, I will go so far as to say in some ways, observing his web sites, he appears a more immature teen than many I have seen here in the states. So, he plays poker and drinks.?????? In Alabama you can believe many are using drugs, drinking, having sex and all the same. Why the boys lied? Only time will tell the tale. Maybe poor decisions were made due to age when something took place. We don't know. It is very disturbing the inaccuracies that have been reported by Fox, not to mention taking what is fairly typical teenage behavior and turning it into a weirdo story, meaning the picture with the belt around the guys neck was obviously kidding around and not a weirdo picture.I think, as a people, we need to start taking more notice of what is being reported and how and not taking what we are told as the gospel. The reason, television is known to be a brain washing tool, such as the weapons of mass destruction reason for war which turned into freeing people when there weren't any weapons. We have to listen but remember television is used for a brain wash tool in some cases and for ratings and hype too. The N. Holloway story is something we all hope is resolved and interested in finding the facts. The trying to make a profile out of not much is going a little far. Anyone else noticing this?
PHT
Posted by: Patricia | Saturday, June 18, 2005 at 10:31 PM
well first i would like to respond to pht im sure if you had a 18 year old daughter missing in Aruba you would not of typed what you did some should think before talking or typing as for Natalee's family i also believe she is still alive and she will be home soon Natalee is in prayer's i will leave off with this thought & question ? Van-der sloot liked to GAMBLE did he sell Natalee into prostitution to pay off a GAMBLING debt ????
Posted by: mary | Saturday, June 18, 2005 at 11:41 PM
Aruba cant be this stupid. What is so important about this punk Van Der Sloot that they are willing to risk their entire economy on covering this up? They just dont want us to know about their seedy culture and this case is exposing it. If Natalee is dead at least she didnt die in vain. Her disappearance will probably save so many lives in the future. babygurl and the one who knows: Natalees mom says Joran acted condesending and powerful towards her, next time you speak with him congratulate him for being powerful enough to stop tourism and desroy your entire Island!
Posted by: Leah | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 12:11 AM
As a concerded American, I feel sympathy for the family of Natalee and pray that she is found soon, however, Van der Sloot seems to be a typical teen. Being a mere 21 myself, I can understand the party scene. News clips have reported of a number of "party pictures" that were found at the home of Van der Sloot. To be completely honest, I do not know of any young adult with pictures of him or her self studying or praying at church for that matter. As for myself, I am a typical college student with a higher that average GPA and posess numberous photos of myself with friends, guys and girls, with drinks in hand and partying at local clubs. The simple fact that pictures of Van der Sloot were found of him partying does not lead to any suspision of murder in my mind. If that were the case, a large percentage of young adults could be percieved as bad, and perhaps dangerous, American citizens.
Jen
Posted by: Jen | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 01:08 AM
Jen: thats great hes a typical teen and drinks, unfortunately he was the last guy seen with her and he and his friends lied about dropping her off now Van Der Shit says he got dropped off at his house and they say they dropped him off with her. Duh hello! And who are these brothers anyway? We know all about Van Der Slut and his family, Who are these guys and have they searched their house?
Posted by: leah | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 01:22 AM
I am in no way defending the young boy. With all the lies and current eveidence, it is possible that he or the brothers are responsible. However, I was just concerned after watchinng a Fox News report about the photos and found them to be no stable ground for blame. I am just a "curbside politic", as one might say, trying to voice an idea.
Jen
Posted by: Jen | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 01:30 AM
Sorry, one more post...I also wonder why the brother's houses have not been searched as Van der Sloot's was...there is no certainty to the case and every angle should be investigated...
Jen
Posted by: Jen | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 01:33 AM
I am reading of persons who know or show some knowledge of Joran. Talk to the police.
Coming from Holland after living there for many years I know this country will not relish as the Netherlands such bad publicity of what is the national heritage. A colony exists to be an example of its 'parentage'.
If those that purport to know Joran can say that taking a girl who so far without any more evidence from anyone else in visual sighting is the last one to see Natalee alive is as pure as the driven snow go ahead, no one will employ you in US. Now the person herself is a biological person. Not Holloway as dissociation, but Natallee. That is the debate and the guilt is in which of the three who were seen by many witnesses killed,detained or had some hand in her continued sustained absense.
I disagree of 'normal' as not all 17 year old students have this 'lifestyle', and I know as inside the student community in international students. The reality is that if your son is the last person to see Natallee alive by witnesses who saw her get into this very 'respectable' persons care with two equally 'respectable' other persons and no one else see this young girl again, the finger of guilt falls on where have they put her and WHY? That is reason to be concerned for what if my son he did, and want answers.
So if you are Joran's mates, friends, tell me who had her next, or the police and do the Netherlands a favour and Aruban confidence. The last person to see Natallee is so far the three who were seen with her. Remember the Bulger killers, they did not have parents to speak up for them, and they were 10 years old when they in tandem committed atrocities as the 'last persons to see Jamie alive'. Remember Heaulme, a no hoper, in the Netherlands, he got caught after playing with the police. Abgrall nailed him as the 'last person to see ....alive'. It comes down to who is the last recorded person that is not contaminated that saw that missing person 'alive'.
I come back to the posts of his so called friends. If you think covering for him and alluding to what is different in Aruba, think again. Prison is a place for criminals of whatever social standing the parent has. If a parent hides from his or herself the possibility and knowledge that their or that son was the last person to see Natalee alive and got into close personal contact with that person never seen again in a car then it is decent, honest, respectable to show concern for what that sibling might have done, is it not???????. This applies to the friends IM' each other at the moment on the island.Please get off the message boards and help the Aruban polis in finding Natallee. No decent person would protect their family in these circumstances. There will be no end till she is found, or what happened to her. People will petition and block the trade of Aruba.I note the Tattoo is up for sale, who do you think is going to buy it now. Who is going to employ Arubans OFF the island with this smere. The whole thing is three men of 17 upwards from good families versed in good upbringing did take a girl intoxicated into their care and car and she is not seen again 'alive'. In the case of Ian Huntley, he was convicted as the last person to see Holly and Jessica alive, it took time that is all.
I do not believe that Natalee is at sea because of the Scott Peterson case and her being found, or her torso and child being found later. She is on the island in a room where you who know the three would take her in the car, for she is not in the car. She is not in any of the three in custody's homes. Behavioural profiling says she has to be in someone elses place that has been used before for what they had planned. It is common cognition to want to be covert in whatever that transpired. I repeat.
THE LAST PERSON FACTUALLY TO SEE NATALLEE ALIVE AS VALIDATED BY WITNESSES AT CARLOS'N CHARLIES WAS THE JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, AND THE TWO BROTHERS.
Posted by: Silent witness | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:13 AM
First things First. I will apologize for my anticipated lengthy rant. Read it ALL and THEN comment. If you don't read it all, don't bother to comment!
Why knock Fox News? They are omly doing the very same thing as all of the other news sources. They sometimes leave a lot to be desired concerning details and documentation, but so do all of the others. They have sometimes provided a side to a story that few others have presented. While I do not agree with all that is presented by them, I have to say they do provide two or even three sides to a story. I have not watched CNN (Crappy News Network) in years. AND the ALMIGHTY Dan Rather would Rather use fraudulent supporting documentation than report the TRUE facts. They are ALL guilty of being nothing more than news networks. It is not NEWS. It is ENTERTAINMENT! That is what it has become and continues to be. I remember a few years ago all of the news services were stuck for months on Chandra Levy's disapearance and all of the Shark Attacks in a year when there were fewer Shark Attacks than normal. Then, When some major news happened, they were ALL back in business.
Fox has so many "characters" on staff and all one needs to do is wait until someone presents the story the way one prefers it to be. Have you REALLY watched Fox News? Have you seen O'Reilly and Geraldo argue about that freak, Michael Jackson? They present differing views and not just the view of the extreme liberal leftists like George Soros. If you don't like Fox News, then just simply CHANGE THE CHANNEL and feed your leftist preferences if you so desire! It's like being angry and upset with a two year old child for ACTING like a two year old child! Get over it!
I can knock EVERY News Service out there for one thing or another. The issue here is not the news network, but a missing US Citizen that has dissapeared under suspicious circumstances while on foreign soil.
Now that my position on Fox News has been clarified somewhat, There are many alternatives to Cable News Sources. The simple fact that all of you yahoos are reading this is proof positive that something is lacking in many public news sources AND that there are alternatives. If these News Networks were so great, we would not all be looking for information and coverage elsewhere, now would we!
Now back to the real issue at hand. I think that the three guys, Joran and the two brothers were out to take advantage of the girl. Something went wrong and now there is an investigation to find out just what that is. I believe also that all three boys are slime. Now for the other side. I also think that Natalee was extremely stupid to have gone off with, not one, but THREE boys in THEIR car in THEIR country, WITHOUT someone going along to make sure nothing "Bad Happened" to her. She used poor judgement and that is basically the fault that any young female in the US or the rest this world could have shown. She was too trusting and somewhat naive. At that age, almost all boys are con artists trying to get what they want from anyone that HAS something they want. Whether that be money, booze, drugs, or sexual favors. They are apparently "Priviledged" a--holes that have more money to burn to get them into hot water. They are out of control since nobody has set limits to the extent of their poor behavior. Like the Dillon and Freebold kids in the Columbine killings. If your kid is in the garage sawing the barrel off of a shotgun that you didn't know he had, you should know about it AND be watching for things that are out of the ordinary. If he spent a few hundred dollars on something like weapons, you should know and ask where the money went to. Quite frankly, where does all the money for casinos and booze come from? Have the boys parents provided the means for their delinquencies? The boys are spoiled and possibly rich kids that are out of control. I don't know about the brothers, but Joran's parents appear to be prominent individuals with well paying positions. Probably way too busy to notice that their son is out of control. It happens here in the states and elsewhere in this world. The sad part is that the boys probably know what happened to Natalee and are not saying anything useful, that we know of. They were the last one's to see her and have given conflicting stories. It sounds suspicious to me and evidently to the Aruban "Polis" as well.
Now about the "Other" kids and "Chaperones" that were in Aruba with Natalee. Since Natalee is over 18 and considered an adult, it really is not anyone else's responsibility to control her actions and set limits to what she does and where she goes. If she hadn't learned proper behavior and how to keep out of trouble on her own by now, it might be too late for her. HOWEVER, I know that when I was her age, my friends and I looked out for each other to some extent. We would watch out and try to keep each other safe. Unfortunately, not all of my friends were so inclined, but many were. All it would have taken for Natalee, was for one true friend to challenge her judgement in going off alone with three vitual strangers in a strange land.
I have seen many small groups of male "Friends" hanging out in the USA and in other countries, frequenting clubs and other establishments where vulnerable young women could be found. Many of these young women are naive enough to believe that nothing bad can happen to them. They might hook up with the wrong kind of person and become a statistic. Kids that age are way too trusting and think someone they just met is a "Friend" rather than a new acquaintance and would do them no harm. They just have no sense of what the reality is. Predators know their prey and take advantage of whatever weaknesses they can.
Now for the Aruban Authorities and their Justice system. It is different than what we are accustomed to in the USA. It obviously works for them, since their Island is not overrun with crime and bandits. However, they are not accustomed to dealing with the nature of this suspected crime and it's investigation. They do very few like these and have little experience in that regard. Now look at what they HAVE done. They have been offered assistance from the FBI. They have asked for assistance from the Dutch authorities. Their justice system is Dutch and the Dutch would be more familiar with their judicial system and proceedures, unlike the FBI. It took days for them to assemble a team and for them to arrive in Aruba. Aruba is a sovereign nation with their own laws and proceedures and that must be respected. Now with reference to the investigation proper, it sometimes takes weeks, months, or years to solve a crime and prosecute the (ir)responsible parties. It does in the USA and what would make that any different in any other democracy? (Except maybe in KALIFOURNIA where trials can last longer than a stick of big red or a sex fiend pumped up on an overdose of viagra)If the process started off slowly, it appears that they are investigating and doing what it is that "Polis" investigators do. The authorities in the USA are too used to the News Services and sometimes give out too much information. I would rather have a complete and thorough explanation AFTER the investigation is complete. Anything else could compromise their efforts. If gross mistakes were made, it should also be evident when they have finished. We are all just way too impatient to wait for that to happen. We are accustomed to the "Instant Gratification" system that prevails in this country and are not willing to be patient enough to wait for results, if there are any to be had.
Now for some more BAD news. I am an avid scuba diver. I have almost 40 years experience, first certified in the late sixties when it was considered something that only insane people do. I have been to Aruba and to Curacao and am somewhat familiar with the layout of the Islands, the customs, the nightlife, the people, the surrounding waters, the winds, and the currents. If she were to have fallen or been put out into the water in the right area, she could be drifting away from the Island at an alarmingly rapid pace. That could be on the surface or under. It would make only a little difference. If she were killed and her body disposed of in that manner, she may never be found. I would sincerely hope that she is alive, but since this amount of time has passed. it is not likely that she is.
We all just need to wait until there are disclosures by the authorities and something more substantial for them to report. I feel for ALL of the families in this fiasco. Both Natalee's and those of the Aruban A--holes. I have little regard for the boys if they are involved, but there are many people related to them that are affected by this, but especially affected are Natalee's parents. My heart goes out to them all.
If you got this far, thank you for giving my rants and opinions the benefit of the doubt and your time. You may not agree with all that I have said, but you can blame that all on the evil Fox News Channel. They must have poisined my mind with all of their predjudiced reporting, or by some other subliminal means. I will take full responsibility for any other of my deficiencies that are out of their control.
Posted by: fox fan? | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:04 AM
you must ask this question there are 100s of missing case of from the states each year,
and they don't get this much help.
the drive for this is money for aruban if
they don't find the person fast the the ship\planes will start to slow down and the
big biz will take it in the short. they lie about there crime just like all the place that are big in the tourism trade I do hope they find here . sad
Posted by: kelly | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:37 AM
why did someone reference me in there post?
if you read any of my comments i am not attacking or convicting anyone, just pointing out things based on stuff that came out the missing girl mothers mouth and the judge who interrogated the suspects himself
enough with the 'stupid american' and the 'fox news' comments, they have nothing to do with finding the missing girl
at this point that girls family only hope of her being alive is the scenerio in which someone has taken her off the island on a boat to do bad things
i don't recall anyone making 'stupid american' comments when them 2 black guys were picked up w/o evidence based on only what the other 3 guys said... until someone else is implicated by evidence, then joran and the kalpoe bros. are gonna assume the responsibility for the missing girl especially since nobody can place her being seen with anybody else
Posted by: Ace_TX | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 07:48 AM
thnxs dushi dushi 4 agreeing w/ me...obviously ur from aruba.so am i.um..im not sure wat ur real name is soo im gnna ask u if u go 2 school w/ joran?? i cant believe these ppl..ther lookin 4 gossip..they dont even knw joran..i mean ye joran likes 2 fool @ but i mean c'mon! he's 17 n a guy! joran would not murder sum1..its rly pissing me off dat ppl who hav never even met joran r judging him..u guyz dont knw him n hav NO rite..
Posted by: babygurl | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:29 PM
first "SILENT WITNESS", ok u are telling us that we should talk to the polis...have U as a macamba talked to the polis yet in order to ask us to do it...?otherwise SHUT UP!..Do u think i care about getting a job in the states?AMERICA is not the only country in the world..so that u know!...
Jen...dushi finally!i think u are the only american that is doign partial and smart comments about joran..since u don't know him u are judging him!wayv to go jen!
Babygurl!...dushi u are the only one that knows how things work down here!!!*the only realistic person*...good 4 u!
Posted by: dushi dushi | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 07:28 PM
its FINALLY good to see maw and pop getttin involved......I wondered when they would step up to the responsability......baby why dont u go to the police in jorans behalf if hes so TERRIFFIC?
I am sure they would take the GOOD ABOUT THIS UDERAGE CHILD into consideration as well....u could help him!
Posted by: KATHY | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 07:46 PM
OOO and also id like to say NOT ALL TEENAGERS DRINK OR DO DRUGS.
and imagine this guys:
THEY STILL HAVE A GOOD TIME.....AND ARE RESONSABLE TOO.
so when u speak of good kids......know of what u speak!
WHAT U DO IS WHO U ARE!
Posted by: KATHY | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 07:48 PM
I am glad that Caro made the point about younger a drinking age in Belgium. In the US the drinking age is higher but that does not stop teens from drinking. In Aruba, as I said in an earlier post, the driving age appears higher than in the US. I think there is something to be learned from that, thinking many teens in the US start driving and drinking about the same time. It is hard to know what teens are doing when they leave in cars, although parents are responsible. So, my point is laws vary and cultures a little different but there could be good in observing the differences to discover what is good about what is different..
It appears to me, from reading what people who know Joran Van der Sloot write, that he is considered a nice person by the people who know him best. My concern is the information being splashed on television attacking his character are people who don't really know him at all and don't appear to have any evidence to back up the attempt to establish a pre night out with Natalee profile. I am only trying to be open minded, knowing I live in Natalee's family area and relate completely to the nightmare her family is obviously experiencing. I have a daughter and I can only imagine the family must wish they could personally shake it out of the three boys. Joran might be a nice boy, as those who know him say and Natalee must have thought too. What happened? I don't know. I think the blame for the lack of information should be placed on those responsible to investigate once it was determined the boys didn't drop Natalee off at the hotel. I have read conflicting information about whether an outside security camera was working at the Holiday Inn so how long it took to determine she wasn't dropped off so I don't know?? If I could offer any advice to Natalee's mother it would be to trust her instincts and not be led by other people. I have found , trial and error, that as a parent you follow your heart and do what you think and ignore the rest. Regardless of what you do as a parent people will say something. For example, if Natalee's mother had not let her go to Aruba many would have called her over protective.
I heard on Fox, during The Big Story, a reporter, Diario?, who said he was following a car. Was he aware he was on the air? I mean if that was true then wouldn't that put Natalee in danger knowing someone could call a cell phone and say they heard that on the news. I am trying to point out that the dutch might have a good idea during an investigation not to release so much information. At the same time was there was possibly a failure initially by not detaining the three boys earlier, which reporting helped correct. Reporting can help and hinder. I think staying with the facts encourages confidence in the long run.
In the US there are many missing people. There are families who say the police are not doing enough. There could and probably should be a channel devoted to that problem alone. The Holloway family is very fortunate to have the type of coverage that is being given to this particular case. At the same time, we could find cover ups, people who should have been brought in, etc. right here at home. The fact is we live in a dangerous world and tend to forget or ignore that from time to time. In the US we have problems too all the way from violent crime, child molesters, to white collar problems such as finding an honest dentist. I spoke to a nice gentleman who reminded me that family should look out for each other because life here on earth is dangerous. It is not only dangerous when you travel but people will come into your home and steal your children, your car, give you surgeries you don't really need, and the list goes on. It can be difficult to know who to trust for friends or dates outside of your family circle, not meaning always in a physical dangerous kind of way but smallers ways too.
Considering the Holloway family found Van der Sloot's home on their own that might be the type of investigative work they should continue to do. I read a book that any person can do what a private investigator does. The book explained to call people and ask questions, etc. While many might not give information maybe someone will. The new murder in Aruba, knowing it is very rare, maybe someone should call people and ask questions about that. While it might be totally unrelated, if by some chance there is a connection? I don't believe in depending on the police all the way knowing how many cases in our country are unsolved. Also, we see that many who appear guilty, such as OJ, go free. It is important to look out for yourself, do your own investigation, trust your instincts, protect your own child. By that I mean even at this point I wouldn't rely on other people fully to protect my child. Natalee still needs protection in one way or the other.
Whether we are from Belgium, Holland, the US, or Aruba doesn't matter. We are all connected by human feeling and so forth. Good people can come together and overcome obstacles. It is unfortunate that Joran's parents and Natalee's parents were unable to talk and work together to find answers, thinking they are both nice families. It appears a circumstance, that is still unknown, brought bad feelings between people who otherwise might have liked each other.
I believe Joran sounds like a nice boy from a good home and something happened that we won't fully understand until the facts are presented.
It might help to have offered a reward for people to just give information so that the only requirement is the info is determined to be true and aids in the investigation.
PHT
Posted by: pht | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 08:35 PM
I heard something about the Van Der Sloot dad being involved with a porn producer they are questioning. Does anyone know the story behind that? I wonder if that has something to do with the gang rape video that Urine Van Der Sloots being accused of making. A guy as good looking as Van Der Sloot could easily lure toursit girls into some sick sex ring
Posted by: leah | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 09:50 PM
Has anyone considered that Natalee may not be dead? I have not read all the responses, but a likely scenario could be that she was sold into prostitution. We already know that the boys were into drinking, gambling, etc. There is a likelihood that they came in contact with someone who sells women on the black market. I think Natalee is alive. I can't believe that on an island this size that no body has been recovered if she is truly dead. Also, I don't believe these boys smart or skilled enough to hide a body so that it has remained hidden for this long. She is alive.
Posted by: angie | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 10:30 PM
Putting a body in the ocean to be washed away forever takes no skill or smarts.
I personally hope everyone involved it safe, but the above is more likely than a prostitution ring.
Posted by: Scott | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 10:34 PM
These people in Aruba, are some pretty evil people. They are corrupt and liars. It seem to me that the whole system of a civilized society does not exist there. The gov. and legal system, as well as the people, can not be trusted at all. Its certainly not a democracy. The gov. sounds like facist. Our FBI should do their own independent investigation, apart from Aruba. You're not going to get any honest answers from these people. They are just stonewalling, and care nothing for the life of a human being. They strike me as a bunch of zombies. Do not trust them.
Posted by: Jeannette | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 11:47 PM
Yo this case is gettin out of hand all u peeps that are against joran dont even know anythin about him. Yes you have seen his face and whatever, but you dont know how he is on the inside so really you should shut up because you people also go out and get drunk at underage so you people seriously dont know anythin. Ive known him for a long time i was on the same softball, basketbball, and soccer team as him so before you judge peeps know them. Tur cos bo ta bisando ta falso. Babygurl and dushi dushi know what im talkin about so really you guys should go back to kindergarten and remember that never judge a person by his looks. Joran is cool and would stand up for any gurl.
Posted by: DJ kaps | Monday, June 20, 2005 at 01:53 PM
DJkaps - That is cool if you are Joran's friend and you are sticking up for him - no one on here knows anything for sure - most of us do not know him - and should not be making judgements about him! I have sons his age and I know how crazy young people can be - and I know how quick to judge some people are - let's wait and see - I hope only the best for your friend and his family!
Posted by: Jan | Monday, June 20, 2005 at 01:58 PM
Well jan thanks. I live on aruba and all you people out there believe aruba is bad right?? Well no its not only this case has brought u to think aruba sucks, but none of u have lived or visited aruba so really i dont know why u tryin to say joran is guilty when u onnly knew about him after this case. PPL should really understand that what u see on tv is not always the truth
Posted by: Djkaps | Monday, June 20, 2005 at 02:12 PM
hey sum ppl mite think dat da ppl dat knw joran r juss talkin 4 da sake of standing up 4 him..but it isnt true..sum ppl dont knw how it works down here in aruba..da ppl here r prolly different then u ppl up in da states but u guyz shouldnt say shit like "joran murdered natalee"...ppl down in aruba knw how it is so thaz y we arnt judging joran not cuz we knw him. n da ppl dat r being partial...ur doin da smart thing..
Posted by: babygurl | Monday, June 20, 2005 at 02:17 PM
Way too many people in the states are making totally wrong assumptions about Aruba - no place is perfect, and certainly no one from the U. S. should trash Aruba because of one girl going missing!! I think the problem that is driving everyone crazy - is people in the States think they are entitled to every single tiny piece of information on EVERYTHING - all the time - wow Aruba has such a great approach they don't tell anything at all! That is a super idea! And people will have to make their own decisions about travelling to other countries - you have to understand when you do things are different and you cannot expect all to go the way you are used to. I think it is great that some of you wonderful people from Aruba come on here and defend your country and your people. We all need to sit back and wait until the truth truly comes out in this case - it all might be completely different than it looks!
Posted by: Jan | Monday, June 20, 2005 at 02:41 PM
hey jan thnxs 4 understanding the perspective of ppl in aruba
Posted by: babygurl | Monday, June 20, 2005 at 02:48 PM
There's no doubt Aruba's reputation is
tarnished and tourism will be damaged for
quite a while. People will get over the
Holloway case, but it's gonna take time.
Van Der Sloot's daddy running from FOX
reporters didn't exactly look too smart.
Does anyone else believe Old Man Van tends
to look alot like Dan Akroid or is just me?
Posted by: J.C. | Monday, June 20, 2005 at 06:58 PM
Paul Van der sloot running from reporters - that means nothing - the MEDIA can be insane - why would anyone want to talk to the media - it is not even part of the Arubian culture to even understand this U. S. desire to know every single little thing - it is just not fair to judge anyone of anything until we know more.
Posted by: Jan | Monday, June 20, 2005 at 07:10 PM
Bring these punks to the justice in the United States where all of them can receive lethal injection.
Posted by: Jake Surfer | Monday, June 20, 2005 at 10:42 PM
what a shame. a young'n who will eventually get away with what he could have done. he got away with underage drinking, underage gambling...come on, this kid, most likely, ca get away with murder, rape assault, whateverthe heck he did. he got the hook-up from his dad. the authorities in aruba, obviuosly, they cannot be trusted...and yeah, summer vacation in cabo san lucas it is.
Posted by: riptide crash | Tuesday, June 21, 2005 at 09:00 AM