Fair And Balanced - Updated

Update: This post is updating at bottom - please keep looking. - Dan

I am working on a longer, and likely to be a controversial post. Hopefully up with an hour, though I am waiting to see if one email is returned.

Meantime, a point of clarity regarding this post.

From today's mailbag:

Dan: I live in the Mountain Brook suburb of Birmingham and know some of the parents whose children were on the Aruba trip. Yellow ribbons are everywhere around here. The Holloway case is tragic, and I appreciate your diligent work on this matter.

I thank the reader for their kind thoughts and also wish to clarify that I never intended for that previous post to suggest some, if any direct linkage to the friends and family of Natalee Holloway.

From someone who has strong feelings in the matter, certainly. But it wasn't intended to purport to shed light on any one group or town - or that I have feelings as to from where it came. I thought it showed the unfortunate nature of someone, anyone so trapped into one picture of a thing, that they cannot afford to entertain a conflicting view. Far from dedication to and belief in something, the kind of thinking represented in that earlier post is defined by cowardice and insecurity - the very opposite of what it would propose to convey.

I'm off to finish my work in between phone calls and errands, so why not give this guy a look, they had a baby not long ago. And if you want to see some quality information on medicine, science and a varirty of topics, including links to information on this case, go to Hyscience. And if you are burnt out on Drudge and desire a similar type service that also hosts and indexes blogs - go to Dilby's News Monitor.

I'll keep updates coming to this post as need be:

Thanks to reader Tanya - ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Three suspects being held in Aruba jails will be transferred to prison today, following a judge's ruling that they could be held for another eight days in the case of an Alabama teen who disappeared from the Dutch-occupied island three weeks ago, FOX News has learned.

That should be Joran, Satish and Deepak.

On a side note, from another reader - Sloot is pronounced as with a long O - think "Slote" and Joran is pronounced (YORan) - thanks Suzanne - (would love to get an email back on that last item I mentioned.)

Another Update: A reader who clais to know and sounds reasonable states that a group of students from Mountain Brook did go on a cruis on the Tattoo while in Aruba - no information to indicate Natalee went along. Marcus Wiggins, Croes former employer who vouched for him runs three boats - links embedded in boat images here.

The Political Teen has some relevant video of a boat and a prison here.

Comments

[Civilian]

the guy has been relased or not?
can anyone confirm that

many of the guys on the site with the pic alltogether these are old picsss...i recognize them from my old school 'PSC' in CURACAO.

look at this www.masemultimedia.com/sameguy.jpg

i think the guy is just bigger now

[Angie]

Yeah, I think that is the same guy Civilian.

[anita]

Post by Dan:

A reader who clais to know and sounds reasonable states that a group of students from Mountain Brook did go on a cruis on the Tattoo while in Aruba - no information to indicate Natalee went along.

Ok here we go again:
Let the FBI question the other group students of Alabama (they were together with NH during the whole trip). They know much more than we all do!
Some of them must have more pic or video's. What are they waiting for.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Can anyone tell me the meaning in Dutch of the word "Sloot"?

Does "van der" mean "of the"?

Is there a website that can translate Dutch?

Thanks

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Father VDS denied access to son again, according to FOX news on now.

[anita]

sloot means ditch

p.e. over een sloot springen : jump / leap over a ditch

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Anita,

Thanks,
Does the wrod"joran" have a meaning?

[anita]

Joran is derived from Johan I think (like
Yankees is derived from Jan and Kees (Holland Names, before the melting pot, there were a lot of men with the name Jan and Kees in America).

(Joran is just a lovely name)

[sadgirl]

Does any one here think that man number two in the bradley case, looks a little like the first picture of Croes that surfaced? Maybe him or his uncle.

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/kidnap/bradley.htm

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Judge, "Bob Witt," hearing evidence and making rulings in this case, was just on FOXnews commenting on keeping evidence secret.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

"Steve Croes still in custody being interrogated right now" - says FOXnews, Julie Banderas on now.

[harley]

...plus ça change, plus c'est le même chose.

There is absolutely nothing in this site but wild speculation and intrigue for those who like to like to play amateur detective.

Take a look back and you will find that there has not been one fact mentioned here prior to being heard on TV. As proof, you'll find that most "facts" that are "reported" here turn out to be as false and misleading as they were when they were grabbed from TV. There have been no scoops.

The bottom line is that we still know very, very little about what's going on in Aruba. Have fun here, but don't get so carried away that you turn fiction into fact.

It is clearly enjoyable for some to be opining on this tragedy without knowing anything, really, about the case but a reality check from time to time is healthy.

All of us do share one thing...deep sadness for this child and her family.

[claire]

AkekoaHoAlethia babelfish will translate dutch!

[Mary]

Just my feelings.
Ok..Here's the deal. Steve is in on it now. He is older and wiser. He may or may have not been the one that killed Natalee whether it was an accident or what but he probably was the one that got rid of the body, if she is dead ..Otherwise he sold her off to a sex/slave trade. Either way the boys never went to the lighthouse that nite. They met Steve where the party boat was docked after they left the club with Natalee. Afterall it did not go out that Sunday night. It was docked. The boys took Natalee to the party boat to have their way with her. She was probably drugged but not enough that she could not fight back and when she did and threatened to turn them in to police then they were not gonna allow that to happen so the 3 left it up to Steve to take care of the situtation. You people keep talking about him takign that big boat out to dump her if that is what he did but there were many smaller boats there and he probably had one there. So if she got dumped in the ocean and the boat dock area is on the shark infested side they they will never find her. Maybe some of her clothes may wash up later on, who knows and where. If they (he) did not kill her then someone took her off the island and she is elsewhere, alive but not so well probably.
I think there is a lot more going on that just Natalee with this too. I think its something big. Probably a lot of drugs and sex slave traffic as well.
The mystery continues.
Columbo where are you?????

After hearing the reports today I really do not think Natallee's body will ever be found.
The goverment is corrupt and this is one big coverup. ~Arubagate~

My prayers go out to the family and friends of Natalee. This is very very sad.

[Mary]

ASB........I HOPE EVERYONE GOES TO YOUR LINK AND READS.......VERY INTERESTING......DOESN'T TAKE MUCH TO FIGURE IT ALL OUT. see below all....

Posted by: ASB | June 18, 2005 05:28 AM
An article on the history of organized crime in Aruba -- but it may be dated, it is 5 years old:

The Rothschilds of the Mafia on Aruba
Transnational Organized Crime Vol. 3, No. 2, Summer 1997

http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm

This article traces the history of organized crime in Aruba and proposes that the local government is corrupt:"Aruba's reputation as a 'Mafia island' became public in March 1993 when it was described by the Italian daily "Corriere della Sera" as 'the first state to be bought by the bosses Cosa Nostra'."

[c]

has mary converted to lower case? cool I'll read it

[lawbster]

if you search the Cuntrera-Caruana link, you'll notice many of them have either been disposed of or jailed since that article was written. by my reckoning it's 8 years old....we're in 2005 now, Mary.

[WiseOne]

Mary,

Thank you for that trenchant, perspicacious, and well-reasoned analysis.

Are you twelve, or thirteen?

Please keep your stupid comments and ideas off the net where people want to find out the latest news.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Claire,

babelfish is a pay-for-use site

I'm looking for a free site that will translate Dutch to English.
--------

Can anyone else provide a link?

[claire]

but i used it for free! -ah woops-sorry it's altavista babelfish-let me look for the site

[claire]

here it is
babelfish.altavista.com/

[anita]

AkekoaHoAlethia,

try:

www.vertalen.nu
(it is free from the Netherlands)

[claire]

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

[Mary]

WISEONE...more like wiseass....I live in a free country and i can say and speculate whatever i want and not you are anyone else can stop me. Does that make you mad???
Get a life.!!!
Oh, i know.....Actually a ufo took her away to another planet. lol

[harmony]

man i hope this website doesn't become as crazy like scared monkey's website, and have people attacking other people, and coming up with freaky speculations. wait....hasn't that already happened???

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Anita, Claire

Do you speak Dutch?

This is just an interesting coincidence? or an omminus omen??
The site: www.vertalen.nu

Nederlands --> Engels translation of "sloot"
Dutch: gracht, greppel, groef, groeve, kuil, sloot
in English is: ditch, hole, pit

-------------
Is this the hiding place?

---------------------------------------------
I'm just making an interesting observation because I'm fascinated by languages and word meanings. However, I realize this name goes back to historical times and would have no relavence to today. Even if Natalee was found in such a place. It's too general of a reference. Yet it is not "ocean"! I'm not trying to feed speculators. But I've seen them bite at almost anything!!

[anita]

In my religion:

it is the opposite:

p.e.If your name means poor, then u are rich (and vice versa).

Mmmm i would say not the ditch, hole, pit must be the hiding place but the opposite.

[Florida Girl]

Just reported on Fox news, one suspect has been transferred to prison. Depak Kalpoe has been taken to the KIA.

[CT]

Fox-news wrote: '... the Dutch-occupied island..'

whahaha!

[Mary]

I think as this dies down somewhat that all the info on this site alone that a book could be written.
The Mystery Disappearence of Natalle Holloway on the Island of Aruba. (or whatever name someone comes up with)
All proceeds should go to a memorial for Natalee in her hometown to be erected. The rest to the parents to help pay for their expences and the other to a fund set up to help find others missing that have never been found as well.
I do not think she will be found and i do not think the truth will ever be known. There is a lot more to this than we will ever know.
This is very sad but true.
I feel so sad for the mother of this young lady.
:O(

[Gentian]

Wise one -
Re: Mary, Mary

Dude. THANK YOU.

Many from The Level of Mary destroyed what was good about scaredmonkeys.com this week.

More's the pity.

[CT]

"Depak Kalpoe has been taken to the KIA."

What is the KIA?

[Mary]

Be sure to tune in tonight and watch the big weeknend report at 9:00.
DAN THE MAN
creator of this site will be a guest on fox news channel. !!
GOD BLESS NATALEE & HER FAMILY!!

[Mary]

TO GENTAIN.......Does it make you mad as well that we live in a free country. Get a life and take a hike. jerk!! You could care less about this girl and what may have happened to her.!!!!!

[Diane]

@CT
the KIA is Aruba's prison

[Paulo]

My learned colleagues: I am inspired and quite delighted to read what appears to be some very well chosen words, moreover, people who are seasoned with integrity, dignity, and knowledge. Mary, love your posts. Whether they are true or not they are nonetheless yours and you are certainly entitled. Do you have any support that Natalee did not make it to the lighthouse that night? I was really intrigued by your thoughts.

I do, more than anything, want my hope to remain. However, just as harley put it so well, "...a reality check from time to time is healthy..." I want Natalee to be safe. Albeit, on a cruise liner headed to Europe, high up in the Andes, or on her way to Australia I really would like knowing she's safe. People do a variety of things for whatever reasons. I just saw where the "Runaway Bride" inked a $500,000 deal with movie rights to her debachery. I would not suggest for a moment that Ms. Holloway would ever do such a thing but my reality check today is in the hope that she is still alive.

I do agree with most of you here inasmuch as something bigger than this entire story is going on behind the scenes. What you ask? Heck, if I knew I'd be the one selling movie rights. Suffice it to say that I don't know; but, this much I do know: If there is nothing to hide then a story never changes. Don't misunderstand me here; I am not referring to the normal people of Aruba. I am talking about folks in law enforcement, government, or other unethical means espoused by so many.

Hey WiseOne: Be wise. Show wisdom and knowledge. If you don't like what you read, then don't read it. After all, she did preface her post with "My Feelings."

Gentian: Be wise. Unbeknownst to you, it is your style that creates anamosity. So please stop or please go back to Scared Monkey's site.

And of course, ANITA: I have an undaunting pleasure of language and how it evolves from year to year. I have been investigating the word or phrase: Yanki, Yankee, Yanqui, and the like for years. My lasted research espouses that it may be a word or phrase from the native, indigenous peoples of North America. Your assessment is really quite interesting and far more plausible. Please feel free to email me with any more knowledge you want to impart with. Thank you.

And finally this: We are all here for one reason. It is for this very reason that we compel, challenge, and do what we can to help. For the love of anything in our lives, before we post let's just try and bear one minute of what Mrs. Holloway-Twitty is going through. I fear she's gonna pop! We should pray for her and her daughter.

As for me...I need to get more detail on the "underground" in Aruba. These kids are fall people. In fact, they probably have only "heard" what goes on in this underground. I would also entertain getting as much clear information as possible from the students that were in Aruba with Natalee. I have read some accounts; moreover, I read an eyewitness story of a person who wanted Natalee to ride back to the hotel with them. The story goes on to say that Natalee had every reason to believe that she was getting into a taxi. Any further information would be wonderfully received.

Again, let's all watch our manners, k?

[Mary]

TURN FOX ON RIGHT NOW. 9:00 PM FOX "NEWS" CHANNEL
DAN IS GOING TO BE ON TV.

[Mary]

THANK YOU "PAULO"
I appreciate your post. You are a very kind person and all you siad was well spoken.

Turn on Fox news now.

"WHAT I SAID IS BEING SAID ON TV RIGHT NOW IN AN INTERVIEW WITH ANOTHER MAN."

Hope she is alive and will be found. GOD bless Natalee and her family!!

Lets bring Natalee home alive.

[meriwether]

Gee...isn't funny how when they stop looking at those three guys and they start looking all around those three hotels, under their noses, at others besides joran and the two brothers they come up with more leads...I've been saying it all along and the leads, current updates seem to be going this route now...

[SBD]

Natalee could have drowned. There was a missing person case on the island of Bonaire and everbody was suspecting foul play. They recently found his body and it turned out to be some diving accident. Everybody relax; let's wait and see what happens.

[Mary]

TURN FOX ON RIGHT NOW. 9:00 PM FOX "NEWS" CHANNEL
DAN IS GOING TO BE ON TV.

[meriwether]

and gee...it feel so good to be back and boy oh boy some up tight fellas seem to be jotting...jot away

[Sarah]

SBD, This is far from a diving accident...

[ANJ]

TO ALEKO: HERE IS TH FREE TRANSLATION SITE........http://babelfish.altavista.com/

[ANJ]

SBD:
.IF SHE DROWNED, THEN WHY ARE THEY MAKING AND CHANGING STORIES?....ITS obvious thats not the case!...Joran was arrogant towards her---words that Nats mother said tonite in her interview..
so do u think person with A SINGLE OUNCE OF DECENCY would act that way towards the victims mother/.. it was as if.. hahah..you cant do squat to me......
thats basically what he is saying by his actions..
and I wonder how the Aruba honor system in school equals to the american version...DOUBT its even in the same league!...but that doesnt even matter..anyone has thoughts on the reporter or editor from diario newspaper, Mr TEAL?..he mentioned that the newspaper has its own team investigating tips that lead to Columbia or venezuela...and feels Nat may be there......interesting..

[John]

Heard you tell Jamie Colby you had the photos from Joran's (former) Web site.

Where can we find these?

Thanks.

[anita]

Hey Paulo,

Thanks.

My email: anitalaloe@Yahoo.com

Hope i can help u with something.

[Karen Hall]

Hi, I hope I didnt post this already! I love this page, its become my only source of outside news! I am a flight nurse and dont have time to read the New Paper or watch TV to often, this page is a very good source of alot of current news. Thanks for the hard work, you have alot of new readers at University Hospital in Louisville Kentucky. Karen Hall

[mic]

I've heard of 4 different languages spoken on Aruba, english, spanish, dutch and the other begins with a p? what is that language?

[John]

MIC:

IF IT BEGINS WITH A "P," PROBABLY PORTUGUESE.

JOHN