EquuSearch Trip Delayed

From CNN.com

Problems arranging a charter flight, as well as restrictions on bringing their three search dogs onto the island have delayed the arrival of the Texas search group EquuSearch until Friday.

However, Miller said he had a conversation with Aruba's prime minister, who has green-lighted the trip for Friday The 17-member team of former and current law enforcement officers will also employ side-scanning equipment that provides sonar pictures of what is underwater.

Not sure I get this bit at all regarding the Twitty/v d Sloot meeting Fox showed as far from a "chance meeting" -

"It was just a situation that presented itself when I was in his neighborhood and at his home, and I just acted upon it and, yes, we did have a conversation, and that's all I want to disclose about it at this time," Twitty said.

Twitty's lawyer is no characterizing information sharing as "good," one of the three boys has apparently pointed the finger at Steven G Croes and:

The attorney told CNN that police investigators have brought in behavioral and demeanor experts from the United States to sit in on interviews with the three suspects arrested initially, to help with the case.

Comments

[Justin T]

Jon, Unknown,

How the hell do you think she "Beth" found out about these three and tracked them down in the first place. IT was by talking to her roomates and the others on the trip. Then the FBI questioned them and I would say that it is a fair assumption that all paths lead in the same direction. It is well known and documented she left with them from the bar and she never returned to the H/I. Do you think for one moment if one of these kids didn't all of a sudden recall something that would help they wouldn't jump on the phone and call her immediately. What your really asking is they get in front of the bill o'reilly's of the world and get drilled to make good news.

[Unknown]

I think that Natalee's mom just wants Natalee back (and she wants her NOW). I think Natalee's mom is prepared for what ever that means ... dead or alive. I think that she needs this closure so badly, that even the punishment of the individuals responsible for this crime is secondary for her. A mother's love for Natalee is the number one priority that drives her.

[beachgirl]

JONSCOT,

I completely agree with what you are saying! I have seen the few interviews with the kids from Mountain Brook and, from the start, something just did not click.

The first interview where they both kept saying that they, including Natalee, were all "drinking responsibly". What does that mean? Drinking responsibly, to a teenager, might mean something totally different to an adult. I felt that they were very concerned about their image.

I think that EVERY SINGLE PERSON on that trip should be interviewed by the FBI. (maybe it's been done? but I haven't heard?) I think it makes sense that each person tells everything about the trip. There might be some information that could help the investigation even if they think that it's not useful.

The Mountain Brook group needs to TELL ALL OF THE TRUTH. Maybe it would add to the investigation, maybe not. BUT at the very least it would educate parents and others, to what type of things actually DO go on down in Aruba. This would be an opportunity to hear first hand from kids who were there.

I still want to know-----

Were any of the kids from Mountain Brook 17 years old?! Has that question been asked? If they were, were they able to get into the clubs like Joran did? Then we would know if Joran was just an exception. We would know if it was really hard to get into those clubs and Joran just had a good fake ID or if HE was just treated differently....

There are a lot of questions that are unanswered and why WOULDN'T you ask the kids that were there?!

It doesn't matter whether they were stone drunk, high, sleeping around, etc., anymore....Their good friend is missing, possibly KILLED (we hope not). The HONORABLE and appropriate thing to do is tell the truth. For their friend Natalee.

[Unknown]

And Justin, I asked no such question and inferred no such action.

I made an open ended observation and you are assuming a conclusion on my part.

[jules]

I agree I think she wants them to talk to her and just wants this to end. It is terrible.

Is the team from Texas there or will it be later this week....after 3 weeks can her scent still be detected??

also beth seems to beleive more arrests are to come....just how many people could be involved and I wonder why she thinks this??

[jonscot]

Justin,

Do you know if there are other 'preying' men like JDVS & gang in Aruba?

Do you know if they are trying to hook American girls just for sex or something more?

Do you know that??

If they are filthy bastards out there trying to get young fools like JDVS to hook innocent girls, dont you want to know??

I do. I want to know if there are traffickers there. I want to know if this is just an 'accident' case or if this is the tip of an iceberg? And I feel that the kids who stayed there can answer some questions.

right??? The kids know more !!

[beachgirl]

Yes! The kids know more.

[In the interest of fairness]

I read on some posts that when they noticed she wasn't back that her roommates packed her bags for her as they had been told to have them packed that night. I cannot confirm or deny, just know that that was reported. The Holloway's reluctance to release any information whatsoever could be construed by foreigners as another example of"arrogant American bully tactics" which is how they often perceive us. We gripe about the lack of information emmanating from the island, but, on the other hand, we refuse to supply any information.

[Media Freak.]

Beach Girl,

In the same show last weekend, the girl that went to the trip said, that there were 17 and 18 years old in clubs. When asked if they were drinking, she said that they were all drinking responsibly and then added that of course the ones under age did not drink alcohol.

This was the show in which O'Reilly called B*S* when the kids told him that it was not the FBI that told them to keep quiet buy was Natalee's father family.

[beachgirl]

Justin-

Kids at 17 or 18 are still "pliable", if that's the right word. This situation must be terrifying to them (with their friend missing) and if the parents said " there's no need to mention that because it would make Natalee look bad", the kids WOULD omit certain things.

I have a daughter that age. The Mountain Brook kids are doing the best they can, I'm sure. BUT I don't think that everything has been told.

They are very cautious not to say the wrong thing.

[jonscot]

Beachgirl, Unknown, others who see the point

If this is an "accidental death", we have in custody, one or few criminals, and grilling them should eventually convict them.

But if this is something more, and there are many others involved, then this looks very very suspicious?? Because then money is involved and then you probably know the rest of the story. Then we have in custody scapegoats.

You probably know what I'm implying...I cant believe that we can't get more info from the kids right here in America!

I mean this is not like grilling suspects in Iraq.. is it? This is unbelievable to me !!

[KAREN]

Jonscot,
From the onset of this case the FBI has interviewed the students from MBHS. They have been asked not to speak due to the nature of this case and the Dutch laws. Any breach could cause the entire case to be thrown out.

[berg]

I THINK THIS IS SPOT-ON [BELOW]

Early post from visitaruba.com:

My daughter ACTUALLY WITNESSED Natalee right outside the entrance to Carlos & Charlie's at around 1:00 a.m. Monday morning. (The paper says she left at 1:30.) My daughter was leaving the bar with two friends, and they were right behind another group. She called to Natalee and asked if she wanted to walk with them (I forget now if my daughter was headed to the hotel or the bar across the street; I think the latter). Natalee cheerfully said no, she would catch up to the group right ahead and walk with them (implying she would be along in a few moments). My daughter had no idea she would not see Natalee again.

This part my daughter didn't see, but was told by her friends: That Natalie passed them on the road a short while later, and that she was a passenger in a taxi with another person. She clearly did not know she was in danger; she leaned out the window and shouted something like "Aruba!!! WOOHOO!" Still having a wonderful time.

I have read and heard other versions since then -- that she was actually seen getting in a car with three men; that she was alone with the guy in his car; that it was a grey car; that it has been impounded by the police. I don't know which is the accurate account. The kids she passed assumed she was headed back to the hotel complex. No one thought there was any danger; obviously Natalee did not think so either.

[Media Freak.]

Karen, they were asked not to talk by NH's father family, not the F.B.I., according to two of the kids that were in the group.
They were interviewed and maybe still being interviewed. AL FBI agents were supposed to get to the island this week.

[berg]

OTHER EXCERPTS [visitaruba.com]

This girl was last seen waving to her friends from a taxi en route to the hotel (the others were walking). They had all exited the bar more or less in a group.
-----------
The girl dissapeared from Carlos & Charlies Monday Night. She left with what she thought was a tourist from Holland. He ended up being a local drug dealer.
-----------
The complicating factor is that the police found the guy she left with, he is apparently a career criminal, and he refused to cooperate during interrogation. It sounds really, really bad.
-----------
Also the fact that they rescued those two sisters last month...
-----------

[Mountainman]

Everyone seems to be imagining more of a conspiracy of silence than exists. Simple truth is FBI has talked to the kids and chaperones. The is no indication that any of the kids or chaperones did anything but cooperate to the fullest. Multiple kids put Natalee with JVDS as the last time she was seen and stories apparently are consistent on that point. The schools (the very heart and soul of Mountain Brook) and people connected with the schools don't want publicity directed to the fact that the chaperones were school employees (coaches and spouses) and the trip though not "school sponsored" was allowed to become "school related". Holloway is a school employee, and she is certain all the evidence points to Aruba, not to other people on the trip. If she felt otherwise, she wouldn't be camped out in Aruba! You need to see and understand what it means to be a "Mountain Brook mom". She would be camped out here lawyered up to the nines! The screaming may start in earnest later if this all comes to a bad end or if it is not resolved at all. This trip was a bad idea from the word go. That didn't mean it had to result in someone disappearing, but it highlights the idiocy of the whole affair. I think Beth Holloway believes the secret to her daughter's fate lies in Aruba. The screaming will start in Mountain Brook after Aruba plays out to the ultimate bad ending.

[Justin T]

beachgirl,

perhaps to the press they would omit things and I think anyone with half a brain would do that. to her mother or the FBI in life and death situation I doubt it.

[beachgirl]

Media Freak,
Thank you for answering my question. So there were 17 year olds in the group that got into the club. I thought I heard the Aruban gov't spokesperson say that you have to be 18 to get into those clubs. I wonder if they let them in and they have armbands or something to show they are not supposed to drink?
OR
Are they not supposed to go in and they just let them anyway? Meaning they don't have any monitoring and once inside, are free to consume as much alcohol.

If that's the case, Joran wasn't an exception and All teens could get in and get as much alcohol as they wished.

[Sarah]

I think the other kids on the trip are not only protecting Natalee's reputation but their own as well.. Do they want their parents and their parents friends and the whole world for that matter to know they were out partying and too drunk to notice anything awry? Kids are kids.. they had just graduated, it was the last night in the Island of Paradise.. it was back to the real world and jobs the next day. I can't blame them for having fun but its time to be an adult.. they were drinking like adults.. act like one. Let's focus on finding Natalee and not what people are going to think of you if you tell the truth..

[Media Freak.]

Berg, did you see the date and time of those statement?

In the beginning the girls stated they thought it was a cab, but was Kalpoe's car.

They thought that NH did not know the guy, but they met each other days before. And he was not a local drug dealer.

JVDS was not a career criminal.

These were the facts that came after all the rumors that were created days after NH dissapeared.

[Justin T]

Jon,

you are obviously not satisfied that the FBI and her mother have talked to the kids on the trip. I think if that either of those parties were not satisfied with what they had gotten they would go back to them again. What it seems to me is that you want them to go on the press and blab it all so we can disect here in blogs and the news media can go nuts and screw up their stories. Your assumptions that you continue with about the kids are not well founded. They have been talked to by the people who really need to know at this point.

[Media Freak.]

I have been to C&C before and depending on your appearance they ask for IDs. By law they can let 16 years old and up enter, however they have an agreement with hotel and bars associations to keep it at 18.

When I entered I got a wrist band that proofed I paid at the entrance, what I drank was up to me.

Yep, anyone who gets in can drink as much as they want to. Unlike in the states, a bartender is not responsible for your decisions and cannot stop you from purchasing alcohol.

[beachgirl]

JustinT,

Every time I see any of those interviews with those kids, it just doesn't seem right to me. I HOPE that each and every question is being answered (to the FBI or Natalee's mom).

We all don't want those in Aruba to be covering up information. And I think those kids could help us understand things a lot better.

[berg]

RE: "Berg, did you see the date and time of those statement?"

You can read the whole thread at the visitaruba.com BB. The initial post is titled "Help" along with a question on how to contact the Aruban police.

This part was early on:

...she was a passenger in a taxi with another person...she leaned out the window and shouted something like "Aruba!!! WOOHOO!" Still having a wonderful time...

The later posts about a "drug dealer" are apparently some of the rumors that got generated after it hit the media. Unless, of course, brattySloot was previously arrested dealing drugs but daddySloot got him off.

[Justin T]

Sarah,

Ok lets see they admit she was drunk! They admit they were drunk! They admit they had one night hook ups. ok whats changed? Is that so someone can pin blame onto the kids? It wouldn't change a damn thing for them to come out and say that to anyone. The fact is drunk or not she left with this group under what circumstances she left with them is up for debate. She is missing and those three guys know what happened. She may VERY WELL of thought she was getting into a cab. Why is it that people seem so damn intent on going after her like she did something wrong or she is a slut or shes run away from home before etc etc...

[Sarah]

In general, kids that go clubbing who are not 18 have fake id's and the bouncers usually let them in. However, you can't buy alcohol unless you have a id saying you are 21 in my state. Let me emphasize.. as long as you have ID.. There are alot of underage kids who have fake id's.. it would have been quite easy for under age kids to be at C & C's.

[angela]

jonscot,

You are absolutely right. Why they keep stressing on one side of the medal.
Dont forget there are two sides to every question.
I was just guessing what would be the story if "something bad" was done by one or some of the Alabama students.

Another thing, the (Aruban) girls in Aruba were line up to get Joran, he is very famous among the girls. Personally I do not think Joran would harm a girl. On the contrary he is pampering the girls. He has enough friends and he do care about his friends. Poor NH, I am just hoping you are alive so that the innocent of Joran can be proven.

[Justin T]

Beachgirl,

There is the point you are missing and Jon as well. you guys seem to think they owe it to US to make US understand better. NO they do not. Only Natalee's mother and the FBI. No doubt there is reason they have been asked not to get into specifics. People should just chill and deal with it for now. I am sure the FBI has a handle on that part of it.

[beachgirl]

So, if it isn't against the law I guess 16 & up are probably in the clubs on any given night in Aruba.

And since other Mountain Brook kids have been there in the years previous, of course it looks bad. Naturally, they don't want the focus to be on the chaperones and the school.

[In the interest of fairness]

After reading a post above where it states that the "chaperones" were all coaches of MBHS and their spouses and that Ms Twitty is an employee of MB Schools, something hit me. I have been wondering for so long what connections the family has to get the FBI, the media, etc. all in on this. (I was kidnapped in a third world foreign country near the Carribean. The US Embassy said there was nothing they could do that they could not interfere with the internal governings of a foreign country.) So someone has to be backing them, someone with a LOT of connections. Now, it becomes perfectly clear why Beth has to keep Mountain Brook Schools and school employees out of this. Her influential backers are obviously connected to the schools. If she allows them to be dragged into this, she will lose their support. End of mystery as to why the silence. However, are we any better than the Aruban officials who also tried to keep things hush-hush to protect their "friends." I say both sides need to come clean.

[Justin T]

in the interst of fairness.

Thats a bit of a stretch to say the least!

[Mountainman]

In the interest of fairness, I'd like to point out that nearly everyone in Mountain Brook has connections.

[KAREN]

Mountainman...
Simply...Thank you. So many think they know so very much.

[Justin T]

Beachgirl,

Shouldn't the focus be on finding Natalee? also I don't think that 16 is correct. I believe it is 18. That is what an attorney on with Greta said. He also said that they sometimes look the other way. depending on how you look.

[beachgirl]

JustinT--

It DOES make a difference whether Natalee was completely drunk or not. If she was totally drunk, then there is much more of a chance that Natalee went with Joran AGAINST her will.

If she WASN'T drunk, then Natalee felt comfortable enough and got in the car of her own free will.

There is a big difference. I am not judging her character at all. Whether she drank that night, and the nights before. Did she get very drunk the nights before, or was it just this last night? All of that would matter. To me as a mom.
I would want to know that.
That WOULD give me (and those investigating) a better understanding of how and under what conditions my daughter got in the car that last night.

[Media Freak.]

Like I said, the legal age for drinking is 16.

Hotels and Bars Assoc. have an agreement on 18 because of tourism. Hard liquor is 18.

Confirmed.

[Mountainman]

Fact?

arubatravelguide.com says

What is the legal drinking/gambling age?
The legal age for both drinking and gambling is 18 years. It is not, however, widely enforced. You will not usually be "carded".

[jonscot]

To those of you who have questioned my posts that US kids come clean:

First of all, we are not starved for news stories, so lets get that out of the way...alright?

There is no doubt that the kids have information that we do not know. Does the FBI have that information? Doesn't look like they know too much either? Why would you go with Search parties to do more thorough 'wild goose' searches if you had any kind of solid information? Which means the kids have not said enough. They're not going to volunteer anything.

Since they dont have to, they wont want to, cause its back to protecting my kids, my family, my image...right?

Right now, there may be kids in Mtn Brk hoping and praying that they are not asked for any information...or questioned.

[In the interest of fairness]

Mountainman - You just confirmed my point, due to her connections and support depending on her good standing with the Mountain Brook community, Beth cannot allow anything negative about anyone in the community, nor anything that occurred on the trip to come out.

[Justin T]

Media,

ok just picking up what the attorney said,

Beachgirl,

I understand that point I guess my issue is people keep going over things that are well known. It was reported by several not one person that she was not falling down drunk. She was in good condition. She was asked if she was ok.

[Mountainman]

Jonscot:

They've been questioned--some multiple times to check consistency. Nothing points anywhere but to her leaving bar w/locals, then disappearing. It's hard for me to believe any locals, even well connected ones, could "disappear" someone so completely. The Brookies were on a trip, and not a particularly well organized one at that. To think they could pull off something like this with no trace and not leave tracks is beyond belief. Something would have surfaced by now. The FBI has checked out this end.

[Justin T]

Jon,

dude you are relentless! I just don't see it from your point of view or see ANY logic in it. but thats cool

[Mountainman]

Fairness:

Believe me when I say NOTHING is a higher priority with this Mom than finding this daughter--no matter where mistakes or bad judgement may lie as to the trip, etc. You're kidding yourself or deranged if you think otherwise, and you sound perfectly sane and reasonable to me!

[jonscot]

Mountainman,

Who said they kids did something?

I'm saying they know more about the 'suspect(s)' in Aruba and they need to stop protecting their image and tell us more of whats going on there.

Nobody is going to approach you, if you went to C & C's. But the kids, they have been approached, they have seen more than any of can ever see even if we went there and retraced their footsteps.

Sorry Justin, but it is better not to leave any stone unturned when you are on case like this.

[Unknown]

Justin ... I don't think that "most" people have any agenda of going after Natalee in a derogatory way ... except maybe a few trolls.

The US justice system is transparent. Information is normally widely available. In this case it is not (at least some aspects of it). Yet, Americans are blasting Aruba for its justice system which is opaque and information is not normally available.

It could be argued that we are just aligning our system with Aruba's system to comply with the local investigation and laws.

But if that is the case, then the US government is doing exactly what most Americans are complaining about in regard to Aruba. It would make the American public appear to be two-faced. Perhaps that is why the angry comments were generated by Aruban government officials.

Aruba officials did blast the US for not being forthcoming about information from the family and students. This is evidenced by the outrageous suggestion that the Aruban government official made about lie detector tests for Natalee's family and the students.

Does that indicate that the US has not shared all of its information with Aruba?

So again ... what does that all mean? I don't know. Maybe it doesn't mean anything. Maybe it is literally, exactly what Natalee's family and the students say it is.

Or maybe the FBI needed to force a narrower investigation in Aruba, since Aruba does not have the assets to go multiple directions at one time. Maybe the reason is to keep Aruba on the right track, or most solid leads ... so as not to waste any time and assets on unproductive tangents that are less likely to generate any results. The purpose of FBI profiling is to narrow the field.

Eventually ... Time will tell.

[Media Freak]

Unknown,

Do you know who that Aruban government official is?

Hope you were not listening to that TOP95 webstation. They're considered tabloid type of newcast.

[Justin T]

Unknown,

Well said!

[Ann]

Are there any special reports on tv tonight?

[Justin T]

Jon,

I don't disagree about not leaving a stone unturned you just don't seem to be happy with Natalee's mom talking to the kids and the FBI. You want the kids to go on TV and tell everything they know. The times they have been on TV has got to be very intimidating for them. It sounds to me they were told to just answer the questions and stick to the facts. I am sure they know more than they are saying. At least to the media and I am saying it quite possibly is the way it NEEDS to be. Not some big cover up as you seem to be implying

[jonscot]

Justin,

They are 'unkowingly' covering up for suspects by protecting themselves and watching their words.

They are helping themelves and helping the criminals and the case drags on....

Who said anything about them coming on TV? But when NH;s mom voices out that "we dont need to go there" or pry the kids too much, then it points to that fact that by covering up for Mtn Brk, they are actually "unknowingly" covering up for the criminals.

Am I clear here??