EquuSearch Trip Delayed

From CNN.com

Problems arranging a charter flight, as well as restrictions on bringing their three search dogs onto the island have delayed the arrival of the Texas search group EquuSearch until Friday.

However, Miller said he had a conversation with Aruba's prime minister, who has green-lighted the trip for Friday The 17-member team of former and current law enforcement officers will also employ side-scanning equipment that provides sonar pictures of what is underwater.

Not sure I get this bit at all regarding the Twitty/v d Sloot meeting Fox showed as far from a "chance meeting" -

"It was just a situation that presented itself when I was in his neighborhood and at his home, and I just acted upon it and, yes, we did have a conversation, and that's all I want to disclose about it at this time," Twitty said.

Twitty's lawyer is no characterizing information sharing as "good," one of the three boys has apparently pointed the finger at Steven G Croes and:

The attorney told CNN that police investigators have brought in behavioral and demeanor experts from the United States to sit in on interviews with the three suspects arrested initially, to help with the case.

Comments

[Mary]

Thank you Dan for the link and the update.

[Mary]

I find this a little strange and a bit disturbing considering they keep saying Natalee could be alive some place.

Someone had put the link below up for Joran on this same sight. I had been there before . I thought I would go there again and take a look again. When I clicked on the pic of his friend in his pic it brought me to this link.(below). When I had seen that pic before I thought this guy looked like he was from Columbia and I see now from his info that he is!. Could this be the missing link and the tie to Natalee being taken out of the country if she is really alive.
what so you think. ?? I am troubled about this. has this guy been questioned and accounted for his whereabouts that night. hmmmm. ?????
Check it out. You never know. Anything goes in this case. Thoughts anyone??
www.myspace.com/14894939

I agree with what Natalee's mom said. There are more people involved in all this and they need to be found and questioned. !!

[minnesota dad]

The unfortunate part of this case is that it has from day one had all of the tell tale signs of coverup.

Botched gathering of evidence.
"Rounding up the usual suspects" (taken from the great movie Casablanca) and making a big media circus out of their arrests to let the real folks getaway.
10 days without interviewing the last people seen with the victim.
Constant footdragging.

My posts from early June urged the Holloways to utilize the media as much as possible. It will be the only hope for their daughter. During this time, even the FBI told them to "tone down". This is also how cover-ups work. Have the abused be quiet and "let the system work". At the end of the day...the media leaves, and the system works for the perpetrators. Immense and consistent media pressure is the only way to get resolution.

This is no different than our system in the states. When a judge wants to make something "go away", they falsify facts and write orders to protect the perpetrators. A person "in the know" told me there are two cultures in our legal system - one is the "lilly white" we have the best system in the world....the other is the dark side where drug money and political influence govern. Most of us never see the dark side. I have.

Thus, this is why I have been adament on this case since early June that the Holloways need to be vocal that there is a cover-up going on to protect the "Aruba elite". Aruban authorities can say "no one is above the law", but that is just the "lilly white" lip service that sounds good. The "dark side" knows better.

Placing constant media pressure effects Aruba's tourism $$$'s. Who wants to go on a vacation, get kidnapped or murdered, and know that the government will cover-up or try to frame others to protect the "elite"? Keep the pressure up Mrs. Twitty....maybe even increase it!

To FOX --- Please, please do not leave the island until this is resolved. Soon Brittany will have her baby and all the media will leave Aruba to cover. Without media to force Aruba's hands....the case will be whitewashed.

md

[DABRONX]

Oh god, another FOX hound. Listen, u can try all u want to deter people from going to Aruba. But u have no clue of how many people like myself have been coming to this island for over 20 years. I think you'll find that thousands and thousands of people will continue to travel to this beautiful place because we know this island better than the arm chair quarterbacks and those like u who have never been there. So don't judge something u know nothing about. This government is no different than any other country who will handle things according to their own laws. And just because we are American,we have no right to tell them what to do. So if u want to speak about cover ups maybe u should look more into how our own government covered up going into Iraq as being justified. I hope to God they find natalee So all u Aruba bashers and bottom feeding media vultures will go away. While people like u are trashing Aruba I'll be on my way there tomorrow for 3 beautiful weeks, so I really don't care. I would much rather be where I'm going than u guys. I'll be doing my part to help if I can while u sit at your and type more BS. Hey Mike 20 more hours. See u on da beach! OINK

[john]

Last night a few of Natalee's friends were on TV. They were asking them questions but did not ask them all the right questions.

I want to know if Joran and Natalie had plans to meet at Carlos and Charlie's? When they were at Carlos and Charlie's were they hanging out together or were they in separate groups? If they were hanging out together why didn't Natalee's friends come get her before they were leaving? Was Natalie fighting with her friends?

[kathy]

Good for FOX and the news media. If the American media was not following this with such intensity this story would have fallen out of sight after the second week. Natalee's story could be anyone of us. As far as "dabronx", you must not have children or capable of putting yourself in another's shoes, no compassion. Irag has nothing to do with Natalee... go lay on the beach!

[minnesota dad]

DaBronx

Have fun in Aruba. Remember not to stay out too late at C&C's, do not accept a ride from a local to look at the lighthouse....ummm, get dropped off at your hotel....or, ummm...the Marriott....or ummm, just get left on a beach. Something bad may happen.

As far as the point of my post that you missed - cover-ups are cover-ups wherever you are. In Minnesota, New York, or Aruba. Some judges will make decisions based on $$$ or political influence. New York's system is notorious for corruption of this kind so you know what I am talking about. Heck...your probably an attorney who participates in the system there.

Aruba's system is no different. As in our systems, the only time that authorities are held accountable is when the media exposes and continues to expose until the whole thing unravels. This case is a dead case without the media pressure being put on the authorities and holding them accountable.

No go play with your "Iraq conspiracy" theories somewhere else....You lost the election, get over it. You can vote in Hillary in 2008.

md

[cancon]

and sometimes there is no cover up, because cops are human, gasp, and sometimes they just botch it, whether in Aruba or Los Angeles or Florida

[Media Freak.]

The media is not what is keeping the investigation going!! Even the family had to get a local attorney so they can be correctly informed and educated regarding local laws.

Dutch laws do not permit investigators to release information to Media or victim or family or public till the investigatoin is CLOSED or there is a COURTDATE!!

Investigation by local authorities and FBI and Dutch investigators has been going on since the beginning.

BY LAW they cannot be MORE open like we all would like them to be.

You know that releasing info before time, could result in dismissal of case in court? AND ALL SUSPECTS BE FREED????

Dutch Laws allow to protect citizens, even if they are suspects or charged.

[minnesota dad]

Media Freak,

you said, "You know that releasing info before time, could result in dismissal of case in court? AND ALL SUSPECTS BE FREED????"

You seem to miss the point. This case is already destined to not make it to court. I am not asking for information to be released.

Knowing how cover-ups work, I know that without persistent media pressure, six months from now the case will quietly disappear, the perps can hang out at C&C's and the casinos. The media will have long packed up to cover Brittany's baby or Tom Cruise's faux wedding.

When you continue to throw world eyeballs on resolution of the matter, whether Aruba or elsewhere, the truth ultimately comes out....and it comes out much faster.

This is not an unsolved missing persons case. We know who the perps are (no reason to lie about things if you are innocent). The case is solved. At minimum, we can start the kidnapping/gang rape charges without facing double jeopardy when the body appears.

Keep up the pressure FOX and the Holloway/Twittys.

md

[jonscot]

This is crazy !!!

I've said this before, and repeat it again...

Those kids at Mtn Brk need to come out and answer some basic questions that many have raised here and elsewhere.

I dont understand it why we have not heard from those teens. We have a young lady missing and her friends need to stop protecting their self images !!

We need to get our homework done before we point fingers abroad.

[jonscot]

Here are the questions?

Did natalee's friends get introduced to JVDS?
What did NH feel of JVDS?
Did NH make plans to spend night with JVDS?
How come her bags were all packed?
Did any of the kids do drugs?
Where did they get their drugs from?
Did JVDS or others offer any drugs?
Who scuffled with JVDS and why?

There are so many questions here....

[In the interest of fairness]

Jonscot has a point. Aren't we being two-faced in this matter? The Arubans tell us that they can't release information as it would compromise the case under Dutch laws. And we Americans, as a community, are outraged at the Aruban silence. The Holloways, on the other hand, have asked the teens to remain mum on the their activities during the trip as it could "hamper the investigation". What's the difference? Can't any and all information regarding this trip potentially have importance? No possible leads should be overlooked or kept swept under the rug by either side.

[jonscot]

Its natural for all parents to protect their kids and not put them in the bad light by answering any of these questions.

Well, why should my son or daughter confess that they did drugs and slept around with strangers, if its not necessary...

It is necessary to know if JVDS and others had preplanned this evening. That is crucial in this case. Then the "accident" is ruled out. Then it becomes a "planned" crime.

All you Mtn Brk parents, for the sake of NH, ask your kids some of these questions and let us know.

It could have been anybody else's daughter...so please.

[jonscot]

If NH had agreed to meet JVDS at C&C and had planned to go out with him then...

things begin to look different.

Why would JVDS bring the Kalpoes out on a date?
What plans did they have in 'hooking' an innocent tourist?

Cmon now, there's a whole different scenario out there, if we can get these Mtn Brk kids to talk.

[In the interest of fairness]

I might add that until we open up the investigation on our side, the Arubans might have some justification in feeling that we are
barging in on their investigation. What do the Mountain Brookers have to hide? According to the testimony of the Aruban workers, their behavior left much to be desired, reporting that the Alabama group was loud, raucous, conspicuous and sloppy drunk at the gambling tables before noon. We do need to be as open, fair and evenhanded in our investigation as we are demanding that they be so in theirs.

[Lurker]

Good luck, Jonscot! The Mtn Brook parents I've encountered on these message boards are in deep denial (MtnBrookMom comes to mind) and/or incredibly dysfunctional. Heck, they even INSIST those kids weren't drunk! ROFLMAO!!

You raise some good questions that need answers. Unfortunately we probably won't get them.

[jonscot]

Dan,

Thanks you for this forum which reaches a lot of people and hopefully this forum can get some answers. I know there are Mtn brk parents reading this right now.

We can contribute so much more to the investigation if we want to. We have 100 kids, potential witnesses for this case. Thats a huge pool of information.

Some of them have seen JVDS for a few days. They have seen his friends, his lifestyle, how much he spends, who hangs out with him, etc etc

We have more answers than we have given out...

[jonscot]

forgive my typos, i'm not proof reading them

[jonscot]

Lurker,

Thats very unfortunate...but true. People are selfish, its their interests that are first.

So if anything is going to tarnish the image of any of their kids, well then they are just going to ignore our pleas.

The truth is this...they are guilty for intentionally concealing information from potential witnesses and preventing useful evidence that pertains to this case...

[jonscot]

In other words, Mtn Brk kids and parents have blood on their hands...that they just cannot wash off !!

[TheTruth]

Mary,

We've already read that post on EVERY other thread you've posted it. No one really cares, hence why no one has responded to it. The fact that Joran has a Columbian friend (a country that is VERY nearby to Aruba) doesn't really mean a thing.

We read it the first time, stop spamming.

[jonscot]

Mtn Brk kids are not guilty of what they "did", rather they are guilty of what they "did not do" and still refuse to do. They do not want to "talk" and help the investigation.

Its a case of omission, not comission.

Don't try to make up and cover your guilt with fundraisers and stuff...dont try to pull wool over our faces. get your kids to talk.

We know that there are kids who run 'wild'. We dont care what they did. We only want information pertaining to this case.

[ann]

Perhaps the Mt.Brook kids and parents are talking to those that matter. I don't see that they owe bloggers anything.

[MarkyMark]

jonscot, what the hell are you talking about?
way to spin it 360 degrees!
the only people who have blood on their hands are those 3 boys in custody, nobody else!
quit twisting the truth!

[MarkyMark]

jonscot, what the hell are you talking about?
the only people who 'have blood on their hands' are those 3 boys.
they were the last ones seen with NH alive.
it doesnt matter who talked to who before.
way to blame the victims jonscot
are you a aruban on damage control or something?

[jonscot]

Ann,

No, they dont owe us anything. But has the Search team gone with some information from these kids?

If so good. But when parents try to hush hush their kids, then its a problem.

Please note, 'bloggers' can influence any case. Thats the power of blogging. Its the other end of the spectrum from 'yellow journalism'. We have the freedom to think, to ask questions and if possible get answers.

Nobody needs to report to any blogger. But blogs are powerful !!

[jonscot]

Mark,

are you a parent trying to protect your kid, at the expense of another's.

Read all my posts before you run off on a tangent.

Thanks

[tom]

MarkyMark,

I feel that Jonscot's questions are valid. Why is everyone sheltering and sticking up for these Alabama kids? It matters a lot who was hanging out and talking to other people leading up to Natalee's disappearance. Its a shame people can't voice there opinions without others cutting them down all the time.

[techy]

ugh!!! just had to comment. it is so infuriating hearing the stories keep changing and the aruban police are just 'still interrogating to no result or resolve. what is so hard about interrogating a guy to talk??? i really feel for natalee's family on this--- the run around -
i can't believe that with all the changes in the 3 suspects/detainees stories that the 'common sense' that these 3 boys knew something from the beginning didn't shine, no glare through.

it has been obvious from day one that these boys; esp. jvds
knows something. people don't make up different stories unless they are lying to cover something up and save their own hide.

what is the police protocol in aruba??? i just can't believe it has taken them THIS LONG to get a straight answer. also, the aruban government & police reps have stated that in the u.s. there are cases like this not solved. No this is not true. a case where the last person to see the 'missing' person is hounded and a case is built and they are brought to justice. also, if someone is found to be lying and has conflicting stories in a case the police/d a unrelentingly pursues the 'person of interest' or suspect. this is not a case of a person vanishing in thin air...with no one seeing her.
this case is so commonsensical. you have the who; but not yet the why.
i guess this is why common sense is so hard to find these days!!! i so feel for the family and i so feel for what we are all witnessing. if the media; especially fox didn't keep up on this i am sure this would have been swept under the aruban carpet... or the two black suspects would have taken the fall.
keep the news going this is the only hope for natalee and her family, and for hopefully more positive and updated changes in the aruban judicial sys.

peace out,
m

[Ann]

jonscot

I understand your point regarding the value of blogs, its just that I'm not so sure its fair to accuse the parents of hushing up their kids. How can you be so certain that is the case unless you know them? Maybe you do and if so I apologize for assuming wrongly.

[yoninadi]

DID NATALEE GO FOR A RIDE ON HER OWN WILL,OR WAS SHE FORCED INTO THE CAR.VANDER SLOOT IS A SUCCESSFUL TENNIS PLAYER.THAT MEANS HE HAS TOBE PHYSICALLY STRONG TO OVERPOWER HIS OPPONETS AND MENTALLY OUT SMART THEM.COULD HE HAVE PHYSICALLY OVER POWERED NATALEE AND OUT SMARTED HER?

[jonscot]

Ann,

We have heard so much about the Aruban kids and we are trying to pin them on a time line...right?

Do we have a timeline for the Mtn Brk kids...?? Why not? They were also with NH that night? They can give us more insight about this.

Did JVDS appear from nowhere? Was he already with them at C & C's? Did any kids notice him calling somebody before he got up to leave?

I'm not accusing anybody...but if somebody is preventing evidence dont you think they need to be held responsible??

[GC]

If it was a kidnapping the three are involved in some way or the other. However, if it was plain murder, it is anybody's game...it could be one of the kids or the chaperones themselves. I for one would not be too happy if my roommate had not shown up by 4AM. I would be kicking the chaperones out of bed and kicking the other kids out of bed. Very fishy here!

[berg]

RE: "Did JVDS appear from nowhere? Was he already with them at C & C's?"

According to the kids they interviewed on Fox last night: The group, including the victim, first encountered JVDS that very day. He was in the hotel casino (as were the kids). The victim chatted briefly with him in the hotel casino. Then the group went to CCs. JVDS showed up at CCs later but he was not invited by anyone in the group.

The kids they interviewed left CCs prior to the victim leaving so they could not comment on whether she left voluntarily.

[jonscot]

Thanks Berg,

Where are the kids who were with NH last? What drugs did they do, if any? Did JVDS approach them?

Looks like the kids who were with NH last have been kept hidden from media. Wonder why??

Whats the point of FOX interviewing some other kids? Somebody needs to get to the kids who were with NH last? Where are NH's best friends?

She wont go off with a stranger without confiding something with them...will she?

Berg, Ann, Tom and others, there's a lot of answers right here in the US, with the kids...

[Media Freak.]

In an interview on O'Reilly two of the kids that were on the island stated that NH and JVDS were dancing and that she went with him voluntarily.

I think I also heard weeks ago when a couple of girls on the trip stated in the media that when they left, NH passed them by and got her head out of the car and shouted that she's going to the hotel. I'm searching for those statements.

And Marky Mark, why sentencing the three boys if you even know what the investigation is about, what the authorities know and what really happened. I'm still on innocent till proven guilty.

And Aruban damage control, I don't think they will start on a BLOG site anyway.

[snoopdog]

Why are the MountainBrook fellow classmate doing their best impression of the Stepford Wives?
When interviewed, their comments look rehearsed and intentionally vague. Their comments are not consistant, and nothing has been disclosed to clarify the obvious questions that have emerged.
JVDS has been publically tried and convicted while the MB 126 just keep it zipped. There are likely scenarios where one or more fellow students could be invoved with the disappearance. We cannot judge whether their stories have "changed" and how they established alibis.
Did her roommates actually pack natalee's bags early in the morning before the flight?
I would focus on which students were on the Tatoo booze cruise first.
peace

[DABRONX]

MD, well actually i plan on hooking up witrh some of the local women. Who by the way are much more mature than some of our youth think they are. As far as cover ups i agree there are cover ups everywhere. But in this instance,not(my opinion) because Dutch law is very strict regardless o0f any crime. It's the media that's trying to make it seem there is a cover up, and that's the way it has always been. They couldn't survive unless they had some dirt to report whether it is true or not.
As far as getting over losing the election, i haven't lost anything but the people of America have lost something greater than u maybe cannot comprehend, the fact that 1700+ families have lost loved ones because of your choice. Let's see u try and get over that. But I'm sure u and others won't take any responsibility for putting W in charge. Maybe Greta Van Frustrated should go to each of the 1700 families and report something of substance. That's why Our beloved W won't allow media to report or film all those brave boys coming home in Flag draped caskets. Umm, u think there are afraid of what the American people will really think about your choice.
I plan on doing my part to show support for Natalee while i'm on the island. That is the issue not the dirt the media is trying to dig up. Leave the people of Aruba alone. They are hurting people who have done nothing wrong. So in conclusion U get over it,pal. Mike see u on the beach. Tell everyone margharita's will be waiting. We r adults and we do drink responsibly unlike the youth who have caused all this to transpire. And I do hope natalee's parent's find the peace they deserve. BON BINI,Aruba

[jonscot]

Who packed Natalee's bags??

Media, did anybody mention that?

[CC]

Lawsuits are not going to force release of info in an ongoing investigation in Aruba anymore than in the US. They can held held up to 108 days in Aruba. We cannot hold people that long in the US without charges. Those that say if only the boys would tell the truth, we would know what happened; overlook the fact that the boys don't have to talk at all. They have the right to remain silent; just as in the US. Those that say there is a lack of transparency in the Aruba investigation are misguided. There is no transparency in the US in investigations such as this. The Texas mounties can search all they desire, but it is doubtful that they will be given access to the police files. Those that say it is botched, or so and so needs to be interviewed, such and such needs to be searched, etc. are sure assuming and speculating an awful lot. Those that say there needs to be a prosecution overlook one simple fact; no one has yet proven (from the info released thus far) that a crime as even been committed. One can parse the boys' and parents' statements, behaviour, demeanor (or lack thereof) til the cows come home. It is all likely fruitless until one confesses, (which may become less likely with each passing day) or they find Natalie. If JVS took a lie detector, as some have speculated, I presume it was voluntary; since he can't be forced to do that.

[Justin T]

jon,

Natalee packed her bags the night before like the other girls did as well. Had to be up and out early in the morning and only left out what was needed.

[Media Freak.]

According to the kids, it was Natalee who packed her belongings, but no one saw her, because everybody slept in other's room. So no one keep track when or where she was.

In a statement in the same show, the girl talked about how popular NH was, so they know that she must have been in other girl's room.

They only notice her missing when she did not arrive at the Airport. This part was not said on the show though.

[Justin T]

MEDIA,

IT WAS NOT THE AIRPORT it was the hotel that morning... when she didn't show up they reported it immmediately.

[Unknown]

As I recall ... All of the Mountain Brook students that have spoken in interviews have repeatedly said that they were told not to discuss certain matters publicly ... by either the FBI or out of respect for Natalee's family or both.

As I recall ... Natalee's mother has also steadfastly refused to discuss certain aspects regarding the students and her daughter ... stating that such matters are of no concern to her. At various times she has said the only part of the investigation that is important to her is forward from Joran Van der Sloot, the Kalpoes, and Natalee leaving Carlos'N Charlie's. At other times she has said that she couldn't discuss such things because it would hamper the investigation. Still at other times she has had no comment, saying things like I won't go there or I don't want to go there. She has repeatedly said she has not talked to the students or has had very little contact with the students.

So, what ever that means is anybody's guess.

[Media Freak.]

Thanks Justin, like I said that part was not in the show where they interviewed the kids, but was said in one or two other newscast.

[Justin T]

Unknown,

that is not true she has said she has talked to Natalees roomates as well as other students. By Phone. What she did say is she was not going to place blame on any of them and wouldn't even go down that road.

[Unknown]

I stand by my remarks Justin ... and in actuality they do not conflict with what you are saying.

Many reporters have asked Natalee's mom about the students and received similar generic replies.

[Man Fraid]

jonscot,

You are absolutely right on the questions!!

This is wide open. Track down all scenarios.

[jonscot]

Is Natalee's mom trying to be a 'good patriotic American' who doesn't want to put other American kids and families into any kind of inconvenience by asking prying questions?? At the expense of her daughter's safety?? That's beyond understanding.

It almost sounds like, "well, once we know that JDVS took NH, who cares what the other kids know"

Who cares if the other kids noticed the Kalpoes or Steve around? or if any of the other kids went out with any other strangers? or if JVDS approached different girls before NH finally fell? or if there were similar attempts from offers?