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Tuesday, June 14, 2005

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Err... The booze can be controlled, yes. But when one takes the decision to drink, one places himself in a somewhat more vulnerable situation.

Choosing to travel instead of staying home is also a choice, and thus can be controlled. But when one takes the decision to travel, one places himself in a somewhat more vulnerable situation.

That was my point. The airplane should be taken as a joke, of course :P

Now you may say 'drinking is never necessary'. True, but one could also decide to minimize the time spent on the street. And the chance of being robed is greater in public places. So maybe one should decide to stay home as often as possible. Where does it stop?

For me, (moderate) alcohol consumption has benefits. I like it. I think the dangers involved are small, and I think they should not be a reason to stay away from alcohol.

I don't thinks any of those things causes you to loose control of your faculties like booze, drugs etc..

You need to move around -- for travel, work, and you derive value in that. Even though an accident may happen.

Booze and drugs are in another realm. They can loosen you up where you are at risk. No sense in creating additional risk areas for harm. Leave that to the everyday dangers.

To buy-off on your and EED's point then I have to somehow agree that booze has an inherent value to the individual, and because folks are going to drink wake up and deal with it.

I see no redeeming value in booze (I do socially drink). Booze and teenagers are a bad combination. If you drink on your Deck, then you walk inside and puke. In a bar, u may have to give it up +.

I am a social drinker too. Nevertheless, I did drink too much on several occasions in the past. And even now it happens to me every now and then. I am 20 now and started drinking when I was 16.

When I was 16 I was into trying all that was availale. It started with beer, but rapidly I also tried liquor (which is not legal until the age of 18 around here, but like in Aruba, everybody does it). I learned my lessons. Indeed I once pucked in the toilet of a bar :+.

Though I have been really ill on a few rare occasions, I never lost it completely. Now, when I drink too much, all that happens is that I have to puke.

I agree with you that teenagers and excessive use of alcohol may not be the best combination, but the same goes for alcohol and adults. We just have a different opinion on the age at which one should decide for himself wheter to take alcohol. I agree with the Dutch law that 16 is a fine age - you believe that 21 is more appropriate. That's a matter of opinion we will probably not resolve.

I think I'll call it a day. 1:24 AM over here.

the point is she chose to drink, made a dumb decision... maybe lost her life because of it- let this be a lesson to young girls out there to be careful.

to the woman who keeps insisting that natalee didn't drink that night, and to the people who think she must have been drugged because she was too smart to get shit-faced, well, i hate to break it to you, but that's a naive way to think.

i myself just finished college and my best friend is from Alabama. we're both honor students- and let me tell you, we get drunk. yes, that's right folks, smart college students who are on the dean's list (honor students) DO get wasted and party. yes, we've been drunk, but we'd never leave the other alone.. when we go to bars, we don't even leave each other alone when we have to go to the washroom- that's what friends do, drunk or not.

so please, don't tell me you actually think that an 18 yr old girl who was celebrating graduation on a tropical island wouldn't get drunk and go out with a good-looking boy who charmed her.. because honestly guys, this is what kids do, both honor students and failing students.

most likely, she was tipsy, last night on the island, hot boy flirting with her, maybe buying her drinks, why not go "hang out" with him? that's probably what she was thinking.. i highly doubt they had to FORCE her to leave with them, because again, sometimes girls make stupid decisions. this by no means gives any guy the right to take advantage, but again, i bet she did it on her own free will.

i agree that allowing your kid to go off to an island alone where it's legal to get shit-faced is pretty irresponsible. 21 is the legal age to drink in the USA, so you HAVE to know that your kid will get drunk there since it's legal when you're 18.. but, the problem is this, 18 yr olds don't know their limits. most college students learn what they can and can't handle during their time in college, most of which is underage drinking.. underage drinking is inevitable, but if i were a parent, i wouldn't PAY thousands of dollars to let my kid get shit-faced..

in any case, she was 18, she made her choices, and now sadly, she didn't get to learn from her mistakes.

the point is though, if you think she was forced to drink (or even do drugs, who knows), you're mistaken.. no pretty/popular/rich 18 yr old is gonna pass up getting hammered on their last night in aruba, especially since they wont be legally allowed to purchase it for another 3 years!

USA Gal,

Well Said!!!

Thank you, Man Fraid!

I think all the three boys were involved in her disappearance. If the Kalpoes were innocent, they would have confessed already what had happened to NH and tried to get out of the jail as soon as possible. On the other hand, it is not rare to suggest that the local authorities are trying to protect the Aruban image, so if there is no body found, then there will be no case at all, and NH case shall remain a mystery. Aruba will be the same "nice safe place again", visited by many Yankees etc, with the bucks coming inside. The panty and condoms they found could also be placed there by somebody to mislead the investigation. Or it could be stuff that has been left back by a couple who went over there and had sex (because the place is known as "lovers lane") Another possibility is that JVDS and the Kalpoes sold her to Columbian/Venezuelan pimps and received money for their deed. They loved to gamble, maybe they were in debt (they borrowed money from the gangsters/pimps to play poker) and they decided to kidnap and sell her to those folks for the sake of money, because daddy won't give those spoiled brats more money. It also could be possible that the guard just lied that the boy confessed to him, so that he could be released quickly (because that was the case also). Only one thing is very clear, and that is that this trio knows exactly what has happened to Nathalee. If they were living in Suriname, the case would have been solved already in 24 hours, because we have a Special Force in the Police Department known as the Arrestatie Team (Arresting Team or just A-Team) They stand above the law and have far-reaching competency given by the Attorney General. In this case they would arrest the boys at a very, very rude manner, and on the way to the Police Department, they would beat those boys very bad up in their dark Van, so bad, that they would confess everything before they would arrive in front of a Assistant Officer of Justice!~. Anyway, it is a very interesting case...

Mamjo.com man from Suriname

The 3 pukes are guilty as sin!
1. Why haven't they been given a lie detector test?
2. Why would the puke bros. be driving homies car?
Homie said the puke bros. dropped him off and
left with the girl. (in homies car?)

Now the puke bros. say they dropped homie
and the girl off by the hotel and left.
(in homies car?)

Good luck with the mayberry police in charge.
The whole thing STINKS!

lockanload

lockanload,

That car story further complicates this whole situation even furthur. Any attempt at comin up with a conspiracy theory ends up gettin screwed by that car story.

The lie DT idea has been suggested but has been reported to be disallowed in the dutch justice system.'

I jsut hope that this girl shows up alive somewhere. a greater part of me feels she's no longer on aruba, but i wait n pray - cannot do any more than that.

Still we ALL need to bear in mind that in every justice system, savinthe US, everyone is "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY"

I think one of the Mountainbrook male students killed her. One of the guys was jealous because Natalee hooked up with this guy.

I would like to know if the police checked every inch of every room in the hotel were she was dropped off,was every person interview'd that stayed there? Could it be someone in that hotel seen her struggling to find her room and took her inside? what if the story the boys are telling is true?? could someone in thet hotel taken her off the island? The detective work I belive needs help? lets extend the investigation please! I feel very sorry for the victim in cases like this. Im mad as h_ell.

Here's the problem. People in southern states, smaller towns, and just about anywhere outside the real cities of America don't realize how bad it is out there. Heck, there's even people inside cities who don't realize it because they're naive and stupidly do things. An ex-coworker of mine lived in one of the most dangerous zip codes here in SF, and is white (and it is a black ghetto) and was telling her grandchild "don't ever be afraid", and leaves her car doors unlocked and her house back door unlocked. She lives in an area that has tons of drug dealers, and gangs mind you. She is liberal to the max.

Me? I live here in SF, and it's a bloody war zone. I wouldn't do what Natalee did here in any city in America or anywhere, but I know better. People, it is BAD, the world is BAD BAD BAD. Anyone who follows true crime (like I do) knows it is GRUESOME out there.

I'm not saying there aren't nice people out in the world, there are, but, the problem is people like Natalee, and the people in Mountain Brook might not understand the depths of depravity out there. Living in a city and walking by the dregs of society with people who are homeless and run around naked, homeless people and depreaved people who have sex in public areas, needles out of their arms, passed out naked and drunk, filthy next to you on a bus. One learns to IGNORE all the dregs around you when you live in a city. Or the SMELLS of filth and poo you smell as well.

City dwellers know it's horrendous out there.

What my point is, is that, the rest of America, where it hasn't been falling apart (like in the cities), don't know, and would and do innocently send their kids off to these places, even cities in America, where the sharks are not in the water, but on the land.

Joran in jail: I know you're not really Joran (thankfully) and thank you for updating us on what is going on, on Dutch tv and the updates.

lockanload
the guy is 17 doesn't even have a car or license ,you have to be 18 to drive.
The guy was playing poker with the others of MB that week not with the Columbian mob.
Leave the investigation to the authorities there are more than 50 thousand unsolved in the u.s. since Natalee disappeared.

These kids had no business being in a place like Aruba with its lax rules concerning drinking.

For the adults who say it is safe, yes it is safe for adults who know to how stick together, stay with their husbands, boyfriends, etc. We who are out of our teens know this!! but kids do not. And the people in MBHS who planned these trips ought to know better.

Don't blame the kids who did not practice the "buddy system". That is bad enough and they are already blaming themselves. And don't blame the dumb "chaperones" who were not watching out for these kids but probably having a vacation too. They are not qualified to be chaperones of 100+ kids who are like bulls in a china closet.

Kids who are sheltered and given such total love are not prepared for the harsh reality that there are BAD people ready to do all kinds of harm to them. If NH had been 25 she would not have succumbed to this. But she was barely 18 and she wasn't looking for the bad in people.

If you want to blame the ultimate person it is the perpetrator, but the people at the HS also need be blamed for planning a this trip in the first place. Trips like this that adults enjoy are not appropriate for children right out of HS!!!
I hope that these trips are a thing of the PAST.

yes, why is everyone so sure she never came back to the room? Did you know she could slip in unobserved by the sliding glass door and go out again and leave everyone in the room sleeping?
Is it possible that she came back and decided to duck out for one more swim or look at the ocean. Especially if she was drunk and not thinking clearly, got caught up in a rip tide and she is now food for the fishes.
Is this even a remote possibility???

I think jorans dad has something to do with this

amazinggal

I have to agree with you!
There are sliding glass doors on the ground floor level in Natalee's room and some of the other MB kids rooms who may also have had rooms on the ground floor.
Greta did an interview with Beth in the very same room that Natalee and her friends stayed in and you could clearly see the sliding glass door leading outside towards the beach a short distance away!

Greta ask Beth if it was possible that Natalee came back to the hotel through the sliding glass doors in her room and could have left again or if someone could have jumped out at Natalee from behind the large bush that was beside the sliding glass door outside of Natalee's room and Beth said something to the effect that it was not relevant or pertinent to the case and Greta had a look of total disbelief on her face at Beth's response!

I am not sure,but I think I remember seeing or hearing that there were also not any video security cameras that covered the side of the hotel where the sliding glass doors to the rooms are at! If I remember correctly,the security cameras covered the front entrance of the hotel,lobby,casino and another important area or two!

A male classmate of Natalee's stated in his interview that he saw Natalee at the hotel AFTER she returned from being with Joran!
I have no reason to doubt his statement!

Since Natalee was seen back at the hotel by the male classmate she either returned to her room or she went to another room on the ground floor to some of her other friends or other MB classmates rooms after being at the beach with Joran!

Some of Natalee's friends or classmates stated in their interviews that there were private parties going on in alot of the rooms after they left Carlos and Charlies.

The big question is...since Natalee did return to the hotel after being on the beach with Joran,then what happened to Natalee AFTER she returned to the hotel?

It is highly possible that Natalee attended one or more of the private parties in her classmates ground level rooms and she accidentally died as a direct result of acute alcohol poisoning or a possible drug overdose or a alcohol/drug reaction!

It is also highly possible if Natalee accidentally died of an alcohol or drug overdose, several of her classmates simply paniced and hid her body some where to hide what happened to her especially if they furnished her the drugs. The mystery is where could they have hid her body and how did they transpot her body to wherever it was they buried the body at?

This is a wild guess and pure speculation but it is very practical,very logical and very possible that after Natalee accidentally died from a alcohol/drug overdose her classmates paniced and called Joran cause he/Deepak or Steve Croes was their drug connection and told him that Natalee died and they needed his help and he/Deepak or Steve Croes drove back to the hotel and they along with several MB kids carried/slipped Natalee's body out through the sliding glass doors unobereved in the darkness and they drove to another location on the island that is very familar to Joran/Deepak or Steve Croes but where the MB students have no real ideal where the location on the island is/was at and they buried Natalee! If Steve Croes is involved,he had access to a boat and they could have buried Natalee miles out at sea in very deep water!
Under these circumstances if Joran/Deekpak or Steve Croes was the drug connection they would be very very willing to help dispose of Natalee's body to prevent/hide the discovery of their involvement of dealing drugs to the MB kids from Alabama!

Joran told his Dad and all those involved had a meeting and discussed what had taken place and since Joran's dad is an attorney he advised them "with no body there is no case" and above all to keep their mouth shut if they did not want to spend the next 50 years in a crowbar hotel compliments of the Arubian and Dutch Law Enforcement!

The very thought of a young person( any one else for that matter) spending 25-50 years in jail is far more then enough incentive to make them remain totally silent until the statue of limitations runs out before they tell the tell of what happened to Natalee and what they did with her body. On the other hand, they may not ever tell the tell!

The only other plausible explanations is Natalee went back to the hotel and then left again and went to the concert and hooked up with someone there and she was abducted,raped and murdered and disposed of many miles out at sea!

I realize this one may be a long shot but it is also very possible...Maybe Natalee got tired of her Mountain Brook life for some reason and obtained a new social security card number and another US passport under an assumed name and simply ran away and left her old life and started a new life in another country with a wealthy male foreigh exchange student she met on the internet who picked her up at the concert in his large modern boat and they sailed off to destinations unknown!
I like this ideal a whole better than her dying of a drug overdose or being abducted and murdered or being sold into the sex slave industry.
Sadly, we may not ever find out what happened to Natalee!

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