Details Of The Initial Investigation Into The Disappearance Of Natalee Holloway

This is the entire post from the beginning. I thank the people who have contributed in one manner or another to this report who shall remain unnamed at their request.

The trip from Mountain Brook, Alabama to Aruba was not an official "school" trip, but an organized celebration for a group of mostly carefree and deservedly celebratory seniors from Mountain Brook High School, as well as some attendees from other surrounding schools. The last a fact that has gone mostly unreported.

While adults were involved in the organization of the trip, waivers were signed by students, and or parents, as appropriate. While adult chaperones traveled along for general oversight, it was reasonably clear and well established that, excepting for a clear and known emergency, the bold, bright faces of MBHS were, in some ways, almost striking out on their own for their very first time in an island paradise considered at least as safe as the streets of many American towns.  They were celebrating years of hard work and sacrifice paid to earn their way into, in many cases, some of the better colleges of America.

Mountain Brook is home to a class of people some would describe as too well-off and perhaps a bit over-privileged; while still others will tell you it is the heart of an America that works hard for its money, establishes and runs banks and various businesses and fuels the great engine of commerce which funds the American dream.

Sun-tanned and not-rested, much as any bright new life might find itself glowing after a mostly uneventful but fully enjoyable trip, seniors were expected to be in the lobby of the Holiday Inn by 10:30 on Monday morning to assemble for the journey home. One young blond face of a reportedly mostly shy girl named Natalee Holloway never did join the gathering there.

Assuming she had simply stayed the night in another room with other friends, Natalee's roommates gathered up her belongings - luggage, purse, cell phone, and passport, bringing them down to the now crowding lobby in preparation for their flight home.  As the bus began to load, adults began to ask questions of the seniors as to why the missing Natalee might not be there. Her friends stated that she had left Carlos and Charlies with a local boy.
 
It was decided that the students and 6 of the 7 chaperones for the trip would go on to the airport so as to not miss their flight back home. Many of the chaperonees were veterans of the trip as it had become almost a ritual having been undertaken without incident for the past five, or so years. The remaining chaperonee, who was not my source for this story, kept her belongings, including cell phone, in case she turned up at the hotel.

Had she made a youthful misjudgment, maybe over-slept somewhere? Or, was she perhaps simply too embarrassed for having made a choice many might characterize as unusual for the girl? It's impossible to under-speculate as to what thoughts likely passed through the mind of a presumably worried chaperonee sitting alone in a hotel lobby waiting for the return of an increasingly missed young girl.

Local police were first notified of the situation at approximately 11:30 AM, one hour after the seniors scheduled departure from the hotel lobby.  A member of the beach patrol was dispatched to take a report and collect a copy of her passport for identification purposes.

Hotel staff interacted with the chaperonee, answering questions and putting forth possible explanations prior to the travel agent for the trip being contacted at approximately 2PM. That is believed to be close to the time of the departing flight, though the exact time of the flight is unconfirmed. The travel agent then contacted Natalee's family.

The parents and several high profile Birmingham business men left Birmingham around 4:30 CST on a private jet owned by one of the men, G. Ruffner Page, Jr., President of McWane Inc. - one of Alabama's s largest private companies.  The private plane is owned by the company.  Natalee's parents placed several calls regarding the troubling developments prior to their departure for Aruba. At approximately 5:00 CST a member of the US DEA contacted the remaining chaperonee.  The DEA representative was on Aruba on another matter and the two individuals agreed to meet that evening back at the Holiday Inn.

By now the seniors, save one notable exception were back in Atlanta and several received incoming calls from Aruba from Natalee's cell phone. Unfortunately, what some thought was the re-appearance of their missing friend turned out to be more questions about her disappearance from the chaperonee back in Aruba. Attempting to provide as much helpful information as possible the chaperonee was informed that the boy with whom Natalee left Carlos and Charlies was somewhat known to them for having had played poker with several of their male classmates during the course of the trip. They identified the local boy only as Joran.

The chaperonee later turned up at the casino asking questions about a boy named Joran.  A poker room manager consulted existing lists and reports suggest that it was then that the boy in question was first identified as having a last initial of "V." A casino employee suggested asking questions of other hotel employees and taxi drivers, at least one of whom first identified the boy as being Joran Van der Sloot, son of Anita and Paulus Van der Sloot and an honor roll student at the International School who has been known to frequent the casinos, sometimes in the company of his Father.

I've reported earlier below on what I have been told of Paulus Van der Sloot. If a discovered old profile from the International School is actually that of Anita Van der Sloot, as some suggest, it describes one Anita Van der Sloot - Hugen, a teacher at the school.

The found profile of one Anita Van der Sloot - Hugen lists her credentials and experience along with a favorite quotation of "Life is creation, creation is art" and a life mission "to become a spiritual leader," and also stating "My mission as an educator in this life is to touch students’ hearts and to lead them on the path of discovery and self-expression."

Some have suggested that if this is actually the profile of Ms. Van der Sloot, it contrasts starkly with the known but now disappeared web profile of Joran Van der Sloot. Joran's web profile was known to contain several pictures predominantly involving drinking and gambling in what appear to be clubs or casinos on Aruba. Additionally, some have characterized his taste in music as "mysogynist," though his taste in music seems to differ little from what many of America's youth listen to today.  Joran Van der Sloot is currently being held by Aruban authorities as the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway continues.

The previously mentioned DEA representative arrived at the hotel at approximately 8 PM and conversed with the chaperonee which resulted in the local police receiving a call from the chaperonee at approximately 9PM for an update on the Natalee Holloway situation. It has been reported to me that at that time no official report had been filed  and suggested that the member of the Aruban beach patrol failed to submit any information on the case. The DEA representative provided the chaperonee with contact information and left.

The parents of Natalee Holloway were reported to have arrived at the hotel at approximately 10 PM. Several of the Alabama businessmen and the chaperonee proceeded to Carlos and Charlies to see if they might gather additional information. Joran Van der Sloot appears to be a well known figure at the casino and an employee directed the group to a taxi driver said to be very knowledgeable as to comings and goings on the island. It was now approximately midnight.

The taxi driver provided more detailed information about Joran and the group decided to approach the police with the information they had gathered.  After discussing the information with the local police, the group, accompanied by two officers headed to the Van der Sloot home. The officers honked the horn repeatedly every few minutes in front of the house prior to the emergence of Joran's Father at approximately 12:30 am. 

Joran was not home and his father told the group that he could be found playing poker at one of the casinos in the Palm Beach area of Aruba.  The group, including the father, headed off to locate the boy.  Upon arriving at the casino, the police, security guards, along with Natalee's parents are said to have "swarmed" onto the floor and at least one report states the police had their weapons drawn.

The young Van der Sloot was not located in the casino. Soon thereafter, Joran Van der Sloot placed a call to his Father's cell phone and informed him that he was at home.

The entire group, including the police, headed back to the Van der Sloot home.  They arrived to find Joran Van der Sloot and Satish Kalpoe, the younger of two brothers recently detained in the matter, leaning casually against what has been reported to be the grey car now impounded in the investigation.

The police set about questioning the two boys. They are said to have claimed at that time that the now missing Natalee Holloway did indeed leave Carlos And Charlies with them and the entire group went to the lighthouse area together prior to dropping Natalee back at her hotel. The boys also made additional claims consistent with other earlier reports

With Natalee's Mother said to have remained in the car, possibly out of the emotion involved in meeting two of the now three boys alleged to have been the last to see her daughter alive, others in the group including the Stepfather were present as the questioning continued for approximately an hour.

Certain aspects of the discussion, some said to have involved Joran Van der Sloot's Father, led to the discussion becoming heated and police officers requested that the group disperse. More than one individual among the group of Americans present at the Joran home that night report a belief that the boys were lying and did indeed do something to harm Natalee Holloway.

Also mostly unreported as of this writing is the great toll this is taking upon many students and adults in Mountain Brook linked in some manner to this quite possibly tragic event. Reports suggest that some, including adults beyond Natalee's immediate family are struggling in ways we can only imagine as observers and need our patience and understanding, perhaps more than our judgments at this time.

In terms of additional minor reports, coversations with a source in Aruba today confirmed a seeming lack in the way of any formal statement from Deepak Kalpoe's attorney, said to be Romero Oomer. We agree that we find this in stark contrast to other attorneys in the case, most all of whom have made some, if not many statements to the press. It is being pointed out only as an observation and is meant to suggest nothing more.

Lastly, sources also confirm that FBI offcials from Birmingham have questioned several, if not all of the students on the trip.

As I stated in my initial introduction to this post - it was never intended to address anything like what might be described as leading to its resolution. However, as there seems to be many clouded and or conflicting statements as to the nature of the trip and developments in the early part of the investigation - it seemed worthy to try and clear up what speculation as could be at this time.

Of great disappointment to me personally is some of the racist, angry statements and accusations being hurled back and forth between two lands struggling with a common dilemma. Individuals within Aruba have done nothing but express extreme concern to me for the best possible resolution of this case. In my opinion, a small island which has functioned as a haven, if not a paradise for many vacationing Americans over the years should not take the full brunt of the confusion, anger and hostility brought about by a confounding situation that could and has occured on more than one occasion in America herself.

It is not out of character as mostly a conservative member of the blogging community for me to say that this is a time for all even remotely involved in this ordeal to view it as a common human pain, and not a state versus state struggle.

I am convinced from my reporting that while there are clearly some issues to be taken exception to as regards this investigation, unfortunately, I believe that most of what we are experiencing in the way of frustration over this case has more to do with what we might only expect from a small island struggling with a large problem - compounded by a significant communications gap mostly fostered by a language barrier and not political or economic intrigue.

Frankly, I did not start out thinking that way - conversations and communications with many over time have changed my mind. I would hope that most, if not all my readers would agree that our best thoughts, feelings and prayers should be supportive of and with Natalee, her family and community just now - and it serves no good purpose to turn our frustrations into unfounded accusations and anger directed at what, by and large, are all just innocent victims of a terrible ordeal.

May God help likely the most innocent and victimized of all - Natalee Holloway.

This post is also available at Blogger News Network.

Comments

[Joran in Jail]

PS. an edit button would be welcome in this forum.

[samantha]

She may have gone to C&C's without a purse. When I was that age I never carried a purse to a bar - cash and ID only. Either way, I am sure the investigators have questioned her girlfriends on that one.

[puggywuggy]

Why are you self-righteous people BLAMING the VICTIM and her family and friends? Why are you believing even part of the stories told by boys who have been exposed as liars? Those three boys were the ones who said Natalee was drunk. Of course they'll say something negative about her to try to cover their tracks. Why in the world would anyone fault her, even if she had been drinking alcohol. SO WHAT? Does that mean she deserved to have "something bad" happen to her?

I found this on another blog, and it appears to be from a family friend of Natalee's. IMO, it is significant:

Posted on: 10:48 am, today on http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g1-o610-k170488-i9659-Off_topic_chatter.html

OH! I need to go back & read the last 3 pages, but I was trying to read all I missed last night & saw a post I MUST respond to.
NATALEE WAS NOT THE GIRL WHO WAS SICK IN THE BATHROOM AT C&C's! My daughter had already told me she was puzzled by that story 'cause she neither saw nor heard anything of the kind regarding Natalee. We were at the vigil yesterday and they were discussing that... It turned out to be other girls on the trip. Somebody had mentioned that at church and these girls went, "Oh no! That was US!" It was definitely not Natalee. You can understand the error. Have you noticed from the photos that 80% of the girls look just alike?
My daughter spoke with Natalee right after C&C's closed. My daughter & her friends came across Nat & Joran as all were exiting the club, and all were walking more or less together toward another group of classmates. Natalee was walking unassisted (not falling down drunk), spoke ok (though not answering in long sentences), and was not touching Joran. My daughter only noticed that Joran was tall, dark-haired, American-looking; he did not speak and she couldn't read his facial expressions. Nat turned down my daughter's invitation to go with her little group. (Ironically, they were about to circle the inside of another club to make sure no others were left behind.) Nat assured them that she was fine, and said she was going to go back to the hotel "with THEM," pointing to the MBHS group just a few yards ahead. The Kalpoes were nowhere in sight; neither was the car.
Next Alana heard was that Natalee got into a car that many in the group had thought was a taxi. (Those look like regular cars.) It may be that the Kalpoes pulled up on the street before Natalee reached the next group; Joran may have deliberately stalled her. The group may not have even realized she was behind them, approaching. But while we hear that she got in the car willingly, we know from her comments that it was not her pre-planned intention. Because of this, I do not believe she knew she would be going anywhere but a fairly short distance down to the hotel. Her plans changed in the blink of an eye, and she was gone.
Re: swimsuits. Many of the girls wore their suits under their street clothes almost everywhere. I think it's a nonissue, though, because I think it's clear she did not plan to go sightseeing, carousing, OR swimming. These brats are setting up more diversionary scenarios. This one in particular frightens me because it makes me think she cannot be alive, and her body may never be found. These past few days have been a horror.

[mo]

CNN is reporting that they are now searching an area around the Marriott Hotel. That is where one of the brothers reportedly said he dropped Joran and Natalee after they left the lighthouse area.

[puggywuggy]

Sorry, I should have broken up the quoted part into paragraphs to make it easier to read. That was my very first blog or chat room attempt ever. I just can't keep quiet about this case anymore. I am tired of seeing people fault Natalee, her parents, her friends, the chaperones, etc. I want to emphasize this portion of the quote:

"My daughter spoke with Natalee right after C&C's closed. My daughter & her friends came across Nat & Joran as all were exiting the club, and all were walking more or less together toward another group of classmates.

Natalee was walking unassisted (not falling down drunk), spoke ok (though not answering in long sentences), and was not touching Joran. My daughter only noticed that Joran was tall, dark-haired, American-looking; he did not speak and she couldn't read his facial expressions.

Nat turned down my daughter's invitation to go with her little group. (Ironically, they were about to circle the inside of another club to make sure no others were left behind.) Nat assured them that she was fine, and said she was going to go back to the hotel "with THEM," pointing to the MBHS group just a few yards ahead.

The Kalpoes were nowhere in sight; neither was the car. Next Alana heard was that Natalee got into a car that many in the group had thought was a taxi. (Those look like regular cars.) It may be that the Kalpoes pulled up on the street before Natalee reached the next group; Joran may have deliberately stalled her.

The group may not have even realized she was behind them, approaching. But while we hear that she got in the car willingly, we know from her comments that it was not her pre-planned intention.

Because of this, I do not believe she knew she would be going anywhere but a fairly short distance down to the hotel. Her plans changed in the blink of an eye, and she was gone."

[Joran in Jail]

In short what i'd like to say to all parents in the USA, is the following. I think loads off your kids are doing the things you prohibit, because you have prohibited it. If i walk out of my appartment now here in Holland, I can buy a pound of weed on the corner of my street. Legally. Do you think I care? No, that's why i don't feel the need to buy it.

The Americain guy I talked to when I was in the USA, told me I must be living in paradise, being able to buy weed everywhere legally. Why do you think he said this to me? Because buying weed has been made a crime in your stupid legal system.

There is however, a reason for these things:
- You can't see a bare breast or ass on American TV.
Thats why the porn industry in America is a multi-million business.
- You go into jail for smoking weed in the US. That's why the street (and white men in the top of crime) profits are so huge.
- You can't drink alcohol before age 21 in the US.
That's why so many young people buy alcohol when they get the chance.

You see?
In Holland there's porn on TV around 9 PM.
Do you think somebody cares?? No, nobody does, because it's legal.

The laws in the US are there not for humanity or because of the protection of your youth. No, you have been fooled by your own country. Those laws are there to earn MORE money on you. It's that simple.

Nuff said.

[puggywuggy]

Authorities have found something at the Marriott location in Aruba - on all news.

[Jay]

are they saying what they found?

[Joran in Jail]

@puggywuggy

be more specific, what news?

its not on CNN Europe nor on CNN.com or Foxnews.com

[MominTN]

Before you assume that a Caribbean island is safe, you might should take a look at some .gov or CIA sites about drug trafficking and money laundering. I would be quite surprised if Aruba wanted alot of FBI all over the island. Two brothers from there named Mansur were extradited and faced charges in the US for drug trafficking and illegal laundering money with Phillip Morris cigarettes. After many years they got some kind of plea bargain, returned to Aruba and now operate Glossco Trading Freezone. In a new book, The "Party of God", it states that in the court case it was said that most of the money from these illegal enterprises went to Hezbollah.
Aruba is described by many, including the US government, to be a major port for illegal drugs, most of which go to Europe, but also to the US. Several trials are going on now in the US for people in the drug trafficking/money laundering business. One business is in Curacao which is quite close to Aruba. Another court case where many people were extradited and arrested are those courrier "mules" who smuggle drugs on cruise ships. This may be why drugs are so readily available in Aruba and the other islands. In Venezuela, use and possession of drugs is legal, but I'm not sure about Aruba's laws on drugs. Prostitution is legal in Aruba. Unfortunately, the tourism industry is more concerned about getting business than warning people about the political and social problems of the islands. It also appears that the people of Aruba are more concerned with appearance than the facts. Why else would they not do a thorough search of the last people Natalee was with until 11 days later? Perhaps they either do not want her body to be autopsied or they cannot get her back from whomever took her.

[Man Fraid]

Joran in Jail

You are trying to make the point that drinking Alcohol is just a NORMAL think and just introduce kids as early as possible. Is there some inherent VALUE in Alcohol that am missing?

I spent 5 years living in Spain. I don't recall on any occasion where I was in the home of ANY Spanish family where the teenagers drank alcohol. Some had a small glass of wine with a meal. Consumed with food, therefore, no big effect. None of the young ladies drank. None. The young ladies were very conscious of being proper. Not slurring, leaning on guys, flirting.

Do not try to pass off the liberalism of your homeland as NORMAL. Alcohol consumed in such quantity where you are not in total control is a PROBLEM for ANY society. If it deprives the person of their full senses, then its no good for you. Especially in situation where you can be taken advantge of.

You value booze, we want gentler/kinder things.

If you Dutch are so in control with Alcohol, why was this young man so keen to take advantage of her in that state. He could have being a gentleman and take her home. Safely.

He damn well knew what he could get away with. Therefore, my point is, parents and friends have to protect each other, becasue there are WOLVES waiting.

[Jose]

Agree with the comments on parents or moral lessons. We all have been 18 , we all have seen the good guys and the bad guys, we all knew the wrong and right places. These girls and boys did not come from a glass ball and landed in Aruba.

The points here are:
1) The Island's police seems to be not effective doing their job.
2) Being 1) due to corruption ? or are they naive at murder / kidnaping investigationt ?
3) Are there gangs in the island taking advantage of the tourist?
4) Are ther drugs dealing involved

The girl's fate is just the tip of the iceberg. Understand me; extremely unfortunate and unfair; but could be any girl even a woman in her thirties. The other point as also mentioned , boys and girls usually hang out togheter , these kids were either spread from many schools and barely know each other or snob and selfish "sons of the dad" that only cared in themselves, the free sex and the gear thay can get.

[puggywuggy]

Go to the following blog (scaredmonkeys.com). It is a more reliable blog with many Aruban locals and friends of Natalee posting. Some are following developments on cable news networks and the local Aruban radion staions:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=25&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=720&sid=d95e9ef10c81d087e11c8ca2efd193f2

[tnteen]

joran in jail -
no offense but America is ten time the size of Holland. I really don't think you can compare the successes/failures of a country your size to a country the size of the US. Not to mention the amount of people, diversity, etc. It doesn't make a lot of sense logically that because something is illegal, everyone is abuses it but if it was legal then it would no longer be abused. I'm not meaning to offend you or anyone in your country but I think there are lots of reasons why things are different here. Many things that work here in terms of laws would not work there because our cultures are both unique.

[Joran in Jail]

@ Man Fraid

you have a point mate. But remember that Holland is very liberal and i think that's a good thing.
Hope they find Natalee alive soon and get that Joran punk in Jail.

[Joran in Jail]

@ tnteen

respect mate.
but Holland can be put 8 times in Florida alone. ;)

Still i do think that if ou compare the US to Europe, Europe is more liberal and more open-minded. But thats personal tho.

[smore]

Something is going on in area of small lagoon however I can not get translated radio broadcast. Does anyone have a good live feed site?

[AUA]

Well, seems to be they are way ahead into the investigation. The seem to be around the area of the hotel mariot, which is a few blocks away from holiday inn. But nothing confirmed just they are saying that in 24 hours more will be known, Seems to be that the case almost solved, know just to know what exactly happen. Just got to wait and see......

[EED]

I'm sooooo tired of listening to all of these self ritcheous and apparently perfect people talk about how "stupid" she was and how "terrible" her parents were for letting her go, last time I checked, 18 was and still is the age in which we become legal adults - you people are ridiculous. Let's not forget that she was/is 18 years old, think back to when you were 18, did you make the most levelheaded decisions, of course not, does this mean you should pay with your life? I think you people are missing what's important here - there is not one of us that can sit and say we've never made a foolish decision or a stupid mistake, however, most of us were lucky and learned the easy way - unfortunately for this girl, she did not.

It's easy to sit back and judge - but every one of you need to take a hard look at yourselves before you do that. When you do that, I'm sure you can think of a million things you've done at a young age that you would have done differently had you known then what you know now.

This is pathetic. I am convinced some of you don't even know what the word 'compassion' means - that is a really sad way to go through life.

[puggywuggy]

I agree, EED.
Please see my previous email. I quoted one of Natalee's friends' mothers. Natalee apparently was NOT drunk and was intending to leave the bar and return to the hotel with her group. It seems very likely that Joren somehow got her (forced? coerced?) in the Kalpoe car.

People should stop blaming her, her friends, her family, chaperones. She may not have even been drinking alcohol, and even if she did, that doesn't warrant what has happened to her.

[tnteen]

I have a question: Who believes this second story that the Kalpoe brothers are now saying - that they dropped off Joran and Natalee and then went home. If this is really true then why in the hell would they tell police that they ALL took Natalee back. To protect their friend? Sounds sketchy if you ask me. But at least things are progressing thank goodness for her friends and family's sakes.

[Joran in Jail]

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Nearly three dozen police officers launched a search Tuesday along a beach near the Marriott Hotel for Natalee Holloway after a former security guard alleged that one of three youths seen with the missing teenager had lied to police.
Antonius "Mickey" John said he was detained in a cell adjacent to one of the young men, 21-year-old Deepak Kalpoe, and that the two spent time talking.

John, 30, said Kalpoe told him that he and his 18-year-old brother, Satish, and their 17-year-old Dutch friend never went back to the Holiday Inn the morning of May 30, the day Holloway disappeared on this Dutch Caribbean island during a student trip.

Kalpoe said they instead dropped the Dutch youth and Holloway off near the Marriott, located just north of the Holiday Inn, on the same beach.

Police cordoned off a three-block area near the Marriott, and government spokesman Ruben Trapenberg confirmed it was yet another search for the 18-year-old from Mountain Brook, Ala., High School.

"Investigators may be following up leads from what was said this morning," he said, referring to John's comments. "They probably need to check all those things out."

No one has been charged, and lawyers for the three men still in custody and the two freed men all say their clients are innocent.

Holloway vanished early May 30, hours before she was expected at the airport to return home after a five-day vacation with 124 classmates and seven chaperones celebrating graduation from Mountain Brook, Ala., High School. Her U.S. passport and packed bags were found in her room.

Hundreds of islanders and tourists have volunteered in daily searches for Holloway, whose plight has shocked residents in one of the safest destinations in the region. One murder and six rapes were recorded last year on the island of 97,000 people. This year there have been two murders and three rapes.

[EED]

I'm just sick of hearing how stupid she was, etc....let's focus on the scumbags who did this???? Notice people are quick to jump all over the victim but not a word about the creeps that did this. So what if she was drinking, I went to Cancun for Senior Week 9 years ago with no chaperones - just classmates and I was drunk everyday (along with the thousands of other highschool seniors that were there with me)....does that make me a bad person??? Should I die because I took a drink under the age of 21??? Give me a break, who hasn't! And let me guess, I would imagine that also makes my parents terrible people because they let me go - senior week has been a tradition for more years than any of us could even remember - and I'm sure most parents are well aware that their children are going to be consuming their fair share of adult beverages while there - ya know what, in today's day and age, if having the occasional beer is all your kids are doing then you should consider yourself lucky.

NEWSFLASH, you can't lock them in a padded cell forever - you shoot the arrow and you hope it goes straight. Yes a tradgedy occured, and yes the best decisions were not made - but that does not put anybody at fault except for the animals who did this.

[Joran in Jail]

A dutch theory is that the 18 year old breezer slut had an overdose and that the guys panicked and decided to throw her body into the sea. Could well be.

[EED]

Well from what I "hear" the Dutch don't know how to differentiate between consensual and forced intimacy - so I can see how that theory would be popular there.

Grow up....you wanna start this petty kid stuff and put down Americans - we can go right back at you 10 fold doll.

[Joran in Jail]

@ EED

you just managed to generalize 16 million dutch people in one sentence. Nice one.

[Joran in Jail]

And, by the way, I really love America.
It's the most powerful country in the world. But it's not perfect. That's all.

[Man Fraid]

"So what if she was drinking"

EED, then no one should be sorry Natalee. Because, those are the odds. If folks don't want to feel the pain of the sensless loss, then you have to mitigate a part of the contributing behaviour.

Otherwise, just expect that you will loose a kid every so often, and just roll with it.

[Joran in Jail]

porr little brother of Joran.

Valentijn really looks like him tho.

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=Oz2jyPmF_KBiNv8U

[EED]

I'm pretty positive most people got my point there.

That being that you are going to try to trash this poor girls reputation - which is a low blow - what I said was in jest, in response to your idiotic comment.....merely pointing out your attempt to turn this into some kind of childish turf war.

That being said - if anybody took what I said out of context, I didn't mean to offend.

[Joran in Jail]

@ EED

i respect you opinion.

and those words weren't mine, they were from Geenstijl.nl, a VERY liberal website which is known for rude but often funny comment. thought u like to know. I am all about love *hug*

[tnteen]

I don't think she overdosed unless she was drugged. If you have been following this story and know anything about southern, affluent communities and young honors students you might be able to understand a little better. From pictures of Joran and descriptions of him from others it seems that he probably got his way with girls sexually pretty often. He prob wasnt too happy meeting a cute blond who may have been a tease or flirted with him. Listen and look at her friends. They look pretty clean cut to me. I mean of course they drink and have fun but it doesnt really look like they are huge partyers. And being a southern american, I can probably judge better than someone in a different position. this poor girl was just trying to have fun on her senior trip and this bully prob sweet talked her, forced himself on her, and didnt like her reaction. If she did overdose it wasnt from alcohol and was probably from something that those sketchballs put in her drink. Id be willing to bet Joran raped her, got aggressive, hurt her, and then prob panicked. It is so sick to me. And to think that he could have gotten off for this. I am really glad that her parents and the US media have been so persistent. I don't know if the response from Aruba would have been quite the same and now that they see that this could seriously effect their economy I'm sure they want to get it resolved. I don't think any of these boys thought this would become such a huge ordeal. And I don't think it will let up either - I mean remember the Laci Peterson ordeal and how long it held media interest. I hope those boys are punished!

[EED]

Man Fraid - point taken.

However, maybe you might want to look at things in another light - what about the parents who raised a child who is "allegedly" (and I say that because although in my opinion these boys look guilty as sin - I was raised in the US, where people are innocent until proven guilty) capable of doing something so heinous? What kind of people are they - because perhaps I've missed it somewhere, but I didn't see you make one mention of them.....that may be because you choose to focus on the parents whose child chose to have a few drinks rather than parents whose child chose to possibly (if in fact that is what happened) rape or murder somebody....

In my opinion, when you have children that are in their teen years - you choose your battles....having a few drinks on a senior week trip is not one worth having to me.

[Man Fraid]

Am critizing teenage drinking and the potential consequences.

Folks who are trying to make it seem ok -- I did it and nothing happened to me, are full of it.

Rationalizing ones bad behaviour as normal is not benefitial.

[EED]

Seriously - what rock did you live under????

If I had to guess, I would say you more than likely didn't have to many friends growing up. Kids will be kids, like it or not they are going to drink - are you honestly telling me that you didn't take a drink until the day you turned 21????? Because if so, I wouldn't believe you if Jesus Christ himself came down from the cross and told me so.

[Joran in Jail]

More
Update:

police confirm the following have been found at the search scene: Women’s underwear

Condoms

Pieces of duct tape

Micky John declared yesterday that the two brothers confessed to him.

After leaving Arashi /Lighthouse, they left Natalee with Joran at Fisher's mans hut a beach close to the Hyatt. They went to swim at that beach.

That was the last time they saw Natalee. They went home and went to the internet to chat. After one hour, they received a message from Joran that stated: "I have something to tell you"

This was statement of Micky John, detainee, that helped to secure his freedom yesterday.

[Joran in Jail]

Investigators in Aruba began searching Tuesday in an area near the island's hotel district following a new tip in the mystery surrounding Natalee Holloway (search).

A boy who found a pair of women's underpants, used condoms and condom wrappers near a small pond in the Palm Beach area north of the Alabama teenager's hotel phoned his find in to police.

Authorities said the area was a popular hangout among teens and that the items were nothing unusual, but a dearth of clues to Holloway's whereabouts was prompting police to follow every lead.

[Joran in Jail]

UPDATE 24: Tuesday night during the broadcast of the most popular entertainment news program in The Netherlands, RTL-Boulevard, crime reporter John van den Heuvel announced that he talked to police commissioner Jan van der Straten, who is heading the investigation. The commissioner told van den Heuvel that they expect the case of Natalee Holloway to be solved within the next 24 hours. The Aruban media is very upset right now, because van der Straten did not convey this information to them directly but instead he informed van den Heuvel first who went on to inform the Dutch viewers. The local Aruban media was informed of this development through the media in The Netherlands.

[LOL]

"Teenagers have NO BUSINESS drinking booze to fit-in, be lively. It puts them at RISK, EVERYTIME. My son is in HS and he gets to drink Coke, Juice, Water etc.. Beer and Wine (although in the house) are off limits."

LOL!!! You mean you THINK your son only drinks coke, juice and water. LOL! Get real!

[Island Hopper]

So what about the daddy that teaches his son he is above the law?

[Man Fraid]

EED,

I can only critique what I can see and observe living here in the U.S. The drinking behaviour I can observe.

As I said earlier, there are WOLVES (Joran and company) that will prey on situations. Too me, the problem of Joran is one of kids with parents that let them just do what they want. The kid is their pride and joy, telling him NO is just not in the cards. So, they grow up with a false sense of reality. They don't want their kid to be mad at them. There are many little Joran's being produced.

His parents are being WIMPS. Put the squeeze on him to tell what the F he did with her. Don't hide behind Lawyers. Put themselves in Ms Twitty position. Get her Natalee, either way. Come clean. But, they are WIMPs, thinking about themselves first. Not the pain of a grieved mother. As a person in the Law, he owes her that much, right now.

Solution -- send all potentials parents to Good Parenting training. Many people don't have the examples (traditional grandparents)to rely on. There's no one in the structure that tells that kid NO -- HELL NO.

[EED]

I hope this guy does not have children - if so, he is in for a rude awakening.....I just want to doublecheck - are you aware of what year we're in here pal??????

Naive parents are far more dangerous than parents that accept the fact that kids will be kids. You can't shelter your children from the world - like I said, you shoot the arrow and hope it goes straight - but don't be foolish, your children are just that, children - making mistakes and learning from them - that is part of growing up.

[Man Fraid]

LOL,

No, I know so.

I didn't drink as a Kid because of fear of my father. Not becasue I was a Saint. There were just certain thinks that was a NO GO line. Period!!! I knew the rules, and had lots of fun with friends. Alcohol was never part of the mix.

[EED]

I see what you're saying - however, I disagree, I think you are chastising parents - which by the way, I'd be willing to bet that this would stand for about 75% of parents - because their children have the occasional beer. I'm not condoning it, I'm just saying it's not the worst thing your child could be doing - there is a HUGE difference there.

In a perfect world everybody's children would be model citizens who didn't dare dreammmmm of doing anything they weren't supposed to - but these experinces make us who we are.

Yes, I drank when I was in highschool - and I had a damn good time doing it - I wouldn't change ANYTHING about my highschool years....

And for the record, I turned out just fine, I'm a successful college graduate with a realistic perception of the world - I owe that all to those horrible parents I had that occasionally looked the other way when I had a few beers in highschool......IMAGINE THAT...

Get a grip - and when you decide to venture back down to reality let me know.

[Man fraid]

EED,

I didn't critize your achievements -- ALL I said is that teenagers and booze are a bad combination.

Am living in a sound reality. Natalee's situation is "one too many". Wolves will victimize young women if they get the opportunity. He had it with this young american princess and he took her away!!

Parents -- educate you teenagers to the dangers. She was Smart and look what happened.

[EED]

I'm sorry, did you sit down and have a heart-to-heart with the girls mother in which she divulged to you that she never warned her child of the dangers life has to offer????

I take great offense to your strong statements regarding parents who "let" their children drink. I don't think any parents sends their child out on a Friday night and says "ya know what hon, why don't you go get shit-faced tonight and see if ya can't get yourself in a compromising position".....but underage drinking is a reality in today's world.

[EED]

Goodnight everybody - my work day is done and I'm off to the gym....

[Steph]

Well said EED. I agree with you 100% on this issue.

Man fraid,
'Am living in a sound reality. Natalee's situation is "one too many".'
Allright. So she shouldn't have been drinking, because that put her in a vulnerable situation.

Now let me ask you. Tomorrow I have the option of going to University. No college, so no need. If I choose to work over there, I will need to cycle, take the train, take the subway and after that also an 8 minute walk. By doing so, I put myself in a vulnerable situation: I may get involved in a traffic accident.

But then again, when I stay home, there is always the possibility of an airplane crashing right into my house.

What I'm trying to say is: every action has it's consequences and possible dangers. Most actions are not REALLY necessary. Should that stop us from doing these things?

[Man Fraid]

Hey, my point was on booze, which I think folks have the ability to control.

Don't think ariplane crashing into your house qualify.

No sweat folks, don't want to beat this into the ground