Croes Update

From Aruba - It's been suggested that recently arrested Steven Gregory Croes was in Carlos and Charlies the night of Natalee Holloway's disappearance, and some think he joined the group in the car later that night.

As yet, I have no confirmation of that report.

The AP is saying that the ruling as to whether or not Paul Van der Sloot can see his son has been made, but not yet disclosed. I was told by a reader that he would not be allowed to visit, however, another reader informs me that Fox is reporting he will be able to visit with Joran. Likely we'll have to see if other media outlets confirm the Fox report, or refute it.

I've had my head down looking into some interesting things from different readers and took the initial reader report as a simple report, as I did know that court was over and figured the ruling on visitation was simply released.

Additionally, from first link above -

the court barred van der Sloot's lawyer, Antonio Carlo, from visiting the teen, effectively removing him from the case, said Attorney General spokeswoman Mariaine Croes.

The court granted prosecutors' request to remove Carlo because he had visited one of two former security guards who had been detained and released in the case, authorities said.

Croes said the Dutch teenager has a team of lawyers, so Carlo's removal will not leave van der Sloot without representation. The spokeswoman is not related to Steve Croes.

Comments

[Getagrip]

Natalee's parents seem to be well off and well connected. I believe if they thought there may be a chance that she's being held hostage, the rewards would have been way higher. Despite what they have been saying to the media (which I found totally understandable), they know deep down that something horrible has happened.

[Getagrip]

Thanks for clarifying, P. I was raised in the Caribbean (now live in Canada) and what you're saying [unfortunately] rings very true for me.

[Can't Let it Go]

P,

How easy would it be for a boy like Joran, or one of his friends, or the 27 year old boat disk jocky to get ahold of someone in the sex trade who would be interested in a purchase?

[harmony]

thanks for the post loco.

[Getagrip]

P, I'd be interested to hear your views on the 'sex trade' scenario. I've been vehemently saying that the chances of this are slim to none, but many people keep bringing it up. Your thoughts?

[Getagrip]

Not a trinnie - raised in the Spanish speaking Caribbean - that's all I'm sayin' LOL

[Can't Let it Go]

Getagrip,

If it were me I would be raising that money. I wouldn't care how likely it was that she was still alive, I'd gamble on the 1 in 1 million chance that she was. No way I wouldn't do everything in my power to make sure she didn't stay in a hell hole like Amy Bradley did.

[Dan]

If I've read correctly on other sites this evening, it seems that Van der Sloot's initial attorney hase been removed from any further representation. This was a motion filed by the Prosecutor in response to the motion filed by Van Der Sloot's father. Granted, he has a team of attorney's to represent him, but it is still a blow to have Carlo removed. Again, this can all be smoke and mirrors.

I think a lot of what has been written here tonight bils down to one word: Corruption.

We shouldn't be dissuaded by this, however.

[Getagrip]

Can't Let it go...but it's not you, and you don't know how much information Natalee's family has that have led them not to raise the reward. For all we know, they have a lot more info than they let on, and they certainly don't want big bucks to be rewarded to someone who has the same info as they do. I think there's a lot of negotiating and diplomacy going on behind the scene.

Then again, I totally know where you're coming from. I'd draw in every resource available to me if it were my kid, but then again, there are so many things we don't know.

[Getagrip]

OMG, P is psychic! ROFL!

[Can't Let it Go]

All-

I have had this terrible feeling when this all began that a brothel could be her prison.

Anybody else think that a bigger reward would help?

[Florida Girl]

Dan -

I heard the same report tonight on either Nancy Grace or Greta show. The spokeswoman for the prosecutor (I can't remember her first name, but last is Crose, no relation), reported that the judge had ruled on the prosecution request to have the attorney barred from contact with Joran. She then stated the reason was that the prosecution felt that any further contact with Joran and his attorney would compromise the case. The judge ruled in favor and the attorney was barred. Then she said she was aware that he already had two other attorneys.

[Getagrip]

As far as I understood from Mariaina Croes (on Greta's show tonight), although Carlo was barred for a week from seeing Joran (due to the fact that he spoke to one of the security guards?), he had not been dismissed, but the family had retained 2 other attorneys for Joran.

P eres chamo?

[Can't Let it Go]

Getagrip,

Somehow she's become everyone's daughter in a sense hasn't she.

I just keep praying that she is not being hurt, for her to stay strong if she is alive.

[Can't Let it Go]

P,
So by that logic, Beth Holloway probably saved the black guards lives by declaring them innocent. -- she saved them from being scape-goated.

[Getagrip]

"she saved them from being scape-goated."

Oh, definitely! I've been saying that all along! I guess P just has a better way of conveying that :)

[Getagrip]

"In the islands it is more of a rich versus poor scenario vs. a black versus white."
I've been saying that too (perhaps not vehemently enough)! It's classism rather than racism.

Anyhow, it feels good to be validated by someone who knows what I'm talking about.

Now...about that sleep thing....zzzzzzz. G'night everyone :)

[Can't Let it Go]

P,
But even more than that they might be dead. Maybe Beth was even made aware of that fact and spoke out as a direct result.

[socalgumshoe]

IMO, most if not all of the accomplices are in Aruban custody at this point. It is now just a matter of who did what. They will obviously have to build a case without a body at this point; thats one hell of a tough task. These suspects are not international drug/sex trafficers. They are an uncontrollable pack of spoiled and privelidged youths running wild in a carribean gamblers paradise. My guess is the "video tape gang bang" story has some veracity. Maybe it wasn't taped, but it probably did happen. Perhaps it happened recently and they boasted about it. I think these guys had an encore performance in mind early that morning and then..."something bad happened". It is now just a matter of sorting out who did what. A side note to those feeling anxious about the due process of Aruban law. We see everyday in America what justice money, power and influence can buy you. Once again, IMO, our justice system is far from perfect. We have to give the Aruban government the time to let this case take its logical discourse. I think patience is prudence in this matter.

sgs

[Can't Let it Go]

P

I think she's still alive. It's still about finding her.

[Can't Let it Go]

How sad would it be if we gave up and she was still alive waiting for us to rescue her? It would truly be better to be dead.

[Can't Let it Go]

It's been nice talking to you guys. The perspective of someone who has been in a similar culture is enlightening. I hope you keep blogging on this site. But for now... good night all!

[ASB]

An article on the history of organized crime in Aruba -- but it may be dated, it is 5 years old:

The Rothschilds of the Mafia on Aruba
Transnational Organized Crime Vol. 3, No. 2, Summer 1997

http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm

This article traces the history of organized crime in Aruba and proposes that the local government is corrupt:"Aruba's reputation as a 'Mafia island' became public in March 1993 when it was described by the Italian daily "Corriere della Sera" as 'the first state to be bought by the bosses Cosa Nostra'."

[Mary]

ASB........I HOPE EVERYONE GOES TO YOUR LINK AND READS.......VERY INTERESTING......DOESN'T TAKE MUCH TO FIGURE IT ALL OUT. see below all....

Posted by: ASB | June 18, 2005 05:28 AM
An article on the history of organized crime in Aruba -- but it may be dated, it is 5 years old:

The Rothschilds of the Mafia on Aruba
Transnational Organized Crime Vol. 3, No. 2, Summer 1997

http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm

This article traces the history of organized crime in Aruba and proposes that the local government is corrupt:"Aruba's reputation as a 'Mafia island' became public in March 1993 when it was described by the Italian daily "Corriere della Sera" as 'the first state to be bought by the bosses Cosa Nostra'."

[Mary]

Ok..Here's the deal. Steve is in on it now. He is older and wiser. He may or may have not been the one that killed Natalee whether it was an accident or what but he probably was the one that got rid of the body if she is dead .Otherwise he sold her off to a sex/slave trade. Either way the boys never went to the lighthouse that nite. They met Steve where the party boat was docked after they left the club with Natalee. Afterall it did not go out that Sunday night. It was docked. The boys took Natalee to the party boat to have their way with her. She was probably drugged but not enough that she could not fight back and when she did and threatened to turn them in to police then they were not gonna allow that to happen so the 3 left it up to Steve to take care of the situtation. You people keep talking about him takign that big boat out to dump her if that is what he did but there were many smaller boats there and he probably had one there. So if she got dumped in the ocean and the boat dock area is on the shark infested side they they will never find her. maybe some of her clothes may wash up later one. who knows. If they (he) did not kill her then someone took her off the island and she is elsewhere, alive but not so well probably.
I think there is a lot more going on that just Natalee with this too. I think its something big. Probably a lot of drugs and sex slave traffic as well.
The mystery continues.
Columbo where are you?????

[Kelli]

Wow! I have been reading this thread trying to catch up.I don't believe in the sex trade theory anymore.I feel like Natalee is dead.All of these boys participated in her demise as well.If it weren't so,I feel pretty sure they would have confessed and lead the authorities to her.However,since this isn't the case,they stay silent as they have been instructed to do.Without a body,proving something would be very difficult and they all know it.I'm sure that Jorans parents have gotten communication to their son somehow telling him,"Keep your mouth shut".That would be enough for Joran to remain hopeful and do as he was told.They wouldn't really have to say anymore to him as that alone would signal to him that Daddy is paying attention.
After watching Greta's show last night and seeing the terrain from the helicopter's view,it's easy to see how a body may never be found.I saw plenty of dry barren land in which she could have been buried.I've said all along that three men could dig a really deep hole within minutes in the case she wasn't thrown in the water.When that boat captain said that a body would be miles away within a matter of hours,my heart sank.It was like a sledge hammer hitting me in the head hearing those words. I wonder if we will ever know what the truth is.The only thing I know is I will never forget Natalee Holloway and everytime I hear the word Aruba,I'll think of her.When her mother stated that Natalee is no longer just her daughter and that she has become America's daughter,she is right.I love that girl and will continue praying for the truth to come out so that if we must say goodbye to Natalee,we could do it properly...

[Don Subosco]

What a load of crap here. If i read all your comments it's obvious to me that you have no idea what Aruba is about. But for all you Americans, is there no crime in your country ? Taking all accusations here in consideration Aruba is (also statistically) one of the most safest places in the world. Masses of American tourist visit Aruba each year, with much pleasure. Are you so shortsighted that one incident should change that, while every day your sons and daughters in Iraq die for a few drums of oil ? I hope and pray that Natalee is still alive, but i also hope and pray that you all stop your conspiracy theories and start to accept the reality that even in paradise not all is perfect.

[Bubba]

Paradise my butt. And what does any of this have to do with Iraq and 9-11? Peddle your politics elsewhere.

[Beth]

Good morning from Birmingham, AL. I am new to this site, fortunately for me that I found it. I am very interested in hearing what other people's opinions are. I have a question....what do you guys think will happen to the career of Van der Sloots father after this? Do you think it will hinder his success of becoming a judge? Also, kudos from me to Beth Holloway Twitty for showing such grace, I believe I would be like a wild animal and ready to attack at this time. LETS BRING OUR GIRL HOME!

[Don Subosco]

Bubba (what's in a name). Did i mention 9-11 ? I just can't understand why on one hand you with all your speculations try to destroy a peacfull society because of one missing person, while on the other hand you sacrifice one life after another for a utopic goal. Has nothing to do with politics.

[mark]

Wow you guys can start making a movie with all the crap written here...
i've been to Aruba and i'll tell you it doesn't get better than that.. we Europeans are upholled by the REDNECk news spread by FOX.... We all pray for nathalee and the sons of guns will confess....
but why blackmail ARUBa?yeah there are very few murders there and you expect a damn CSI ARUBA?
they are trying....So for all the honkey tonks spreading false rumors..get the facts right!!and sell the trailers!!yeeeha

[Don Subosco]

OK Mark ! Finally some truth here !

[New Creature]

Hi Don- I understand your frustration.

Many times, unfortunately, we evaluate situations based upon our own experience and cultural influences. If it seems to you unfair that americans are coming up with all these bizzare theories, you are right. And who are we to throw stones since our society has all this crime? These "bizzare" things are plausable to us BECAUSE of the things we've seen.

Just this last season we had an 11 year old girl abducted from her home as her family slept. It was later discovered she had been held captive right next door before she was buried alive in a trash bag 200 feet from her home.

The more evil you are surrounded by, the more you are willing to believe is out there.

Maybe as Americans, we've just seen too much. Not that it doesn't go on everywhere, but we have free press. We see more.

Sorry this offends you. It offends all of us.

[UGM]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Current Missing Children in Alabama

Is america saver than Aruba? You tell me!!
If you are a saint, you may throw the first ROCK!

Name
Race
M/F
Height
Weight
Age
Last Seen

Abigail Louise Angel
White
Female
2' 00"
29
5 Year(s)
7/29/2001

Amanda Bailey
White
Female
5' 06"
145
17 Year(s)
1/20/2005

Amber Janae Branham
White
Female
5' 10"
165
16 Year(s)
7/7/2004

Tara Lexie Colson
White
Female
5' 08"
170
16 Year(s)
3/3/2005

Bobbie Jo Glaze
White
Female
5' 09"
145
17 Year(s)
10/6/2004

Venus Grier
White
Female
5' 08"
240
17 Year(s)
3/9/2005

Rachel Lynn Harris
White
Female
5' 07"
130
14 Year(s)
5/28/2005

Julian Tiberius Hernandez
White
Male
3' 00"
43
8 Year(s)
8/28/2002

Jessica Jean Linderman
White
Female
5' 02"
146
15 Year(s)
4/7/2005

Vernita Mcghee
Black
Female
5' 04"
110
13 Year(s)
6/6/2005

Kasie Lynn Mcguire
White
Female
4' 4"
60
8 Year(s)
11/22/2002

Sarah K Razavi
Asian
Female
5' 01"
93
15 Year(s)
6/11/2005

Nicole Marie Rockwell
White
Female
5' 03"
145
16 Year(s)
2/18/2005

Heaven Lashae Ross
White
Female
4' 06"
100
13 Year(s)
8/19/2003

Cameron Justin Smith
White
Male
3' 07"
30
4 Year(s)
10/30/2001

Joshua Allen Smith
White
Male
5' 06"
145
17 Year(s)
6/11/2005

Darlene Nicole Tolbert
White
Female
3' 00"
35
13 Year(s)
8/18/1997

Fred Wright
Black
Male
5' 07"
130
20 Year(s)
12/6/1998

Mary Jordan Wright
White
Female
5' 02"
110
15 Year(s)
5/10/2005

[New Creature]

UGM- By posting that list. You just threw the preverbial rock.

[Kelli]

Big difference in the size of Alabama then the size of a 20 mile island don't you think?That post is worthless.I'm not giving Aruba a dime,ever!

[Don Subosco]

Oh dear Kelli. So actually it's foreign aid you do. Aruba is the 3rd world and you give them your money instead of buying a paradise holiday on the peaceful Island ? You are two centuries late dear.

[Kelli]

You're right Don.My heart is with starving nations,not tourist attractions....

[UGM]

what i`m trying to say is(if you want to give aruba a dime or not, that`s your problem) even in USA they can not solve the missing person problems. Ad now you have allready judge a island who are trying to do everything to solve this problem

[huntsvegas]

Alabama has roughly 4million people UGM. Aruba has 72k. Alas, your post-statistically speaking-is meanignless.

[Bubba]

The American frustration with Aruba is that the major is suspect will possibly get off because of what we see is the political influence of the father. There is also frustration with the people who allowed such a ''school trip'' to be sanctioned - however so indirectly. Don started the thread moving toward blame the US - UGM decided to go with an ''everyone does it'' attack. Maybe it's time to move the thread back to the topic at hand - reporting facts and rumors on the case as people hear about them. And stop calling this third-world location paradise. To me, it's a sweat hole - and somewhere like the Swiss Alps a far better (and safer) place to be (ex-Jamaican parents, btw).

[ATLJoie]

Waking up this am I can't seem to find any updates on NH. Anyone hear any news overnight?

[Kelli]

Don,
Sorry I don't agree that everyone in Aruba is doing all they can to solve this case.Letting the three suspects walk around the island for 10 days free as eagles after pegging the two guards as guilty makes you wonder alittle bit don't you think? Hmmmm....As I read somewhere,if the FBI hadn't of shown up,it is plausable that the two security guys would still be locked up and framed to protect Yoran and his gang.After-all,his Daddy is in a place of position.That's the way many of us see this.A botched investigation from the very beginning as reported.To be honest,I never considered taking a trip to Aruba and for sure I won't now.I'll take Hilton Head,S.C any old day over any island anywhere in the world.......

[Kelli]

Bubba,
Swiss Alps sounds fantastic to me too...:)

[Jan Brennan]

I am so tired of everyone bashing the Arubans with allowing these 3 suspects to walk around for a week - does no one realize that in the U. S. it is highly unlikely that these 3 would have had anything more than intense questioning done and then they would have been let go - In absence of a body or a crime scene - how do you think our justice would have held them? When did Scott Peterson get arrested - when there was a body - what about Chandra Levi - noone ever got arrested - did Gary Condit - no. If there is no body or crime scene how do you think the U. S. would hold these 3 - and at the very least they would be out on bail - and the 17 year old would certainly be seeing his father! Quit picking on Aruba - maybe they are not the best at doing their job but their system of justice certainly allows for more errors by the way they can keep people in jail for 100 some days with not that much evidence!!!!

[UGM]

Now i understand the frustration of the most of americans, Kelli.
Right now i live in Paris and when you read news like this(missing persons)than i ask myself what`s up? in every country there are missing persons.
Swiis Alps is very beautiful in winter

[Kelli]

Jan Brennan,
If you are so tired of hearing it,why then are you surfing the internet for information?No one is bashing the Arubans here,only their shoddy so-called police work...Have at it and spend your money in Aruba.Just don't get excited because some of us won't....

[anita]

What a load of crap here. If i read all your comments it's obvious to me that you have no idea what Aruba is about. But for all you Americans, is there no crime in your country ? Taking all accusations here in consideration Aruba is (also statistically) one of the most safest places in the world. Masses of American tourist visit Aruba each year, with much pleasure. Are you so shortsighted that one incident should change that, while every day your sons and daughters in Iraq die for a few drums of oil ? I hope and pray that Natalee is still alive, but i also hope and pray that you all stop your conspiracy theories and start to accept the reality that even in paradise not all is perfect.

Posted by: Don Subosco | June 18, 2005 08:04 AM

Good Point Don Subosco...I agree with u

Getagrip,

But what if it was an afterthought- a way to get rid of a girl who was going to rat on them? What if someone said, "hey, I know some one who can help you out with this little problem?".

Even if it were not sex traffickers, if she is being held hostage, anything. The pond is too small to make $55k attractive.

I would contribute if there were a credible fund established.

Posted by: Can't Let it Go | June 18, 2005 03:20 AM

Another good point!

[Jan]

I am very interested in this story so that is why I am reading all the posts - but will someone that knows the U.S. law please respond - would these 3 be in jail right now if this had happened in the United States?

[Kelli]

So tell us please...What does Aruba have that we don't have right here in America?