Changing Tone

There seems to be a changing tone with the family of Natalee Holloway. The step-father confirmed on Fox tonight that he felt a resolution was imminent and that authorities also told him they anticipated bring ing in an additional eight or nine potential witnesses for questioning.

As an observer, it looks like it is at least possible that communications are improving between authorties and teh families, much of this seems to have happened recently, possibly partly due to the family retaining a lawyer. But it is unknown who from either side, including the FBI, is working to smooth things out, get everyone co-operating and looking forward to a resolution to the troubling mystery.

An incident purported to be from a questioning session with Joran, Satish and Deepak all present was interesting. It was reported that Joran was asked what happened after being dropped off at the beach with Natalee and he ultimately said he called Deepak to come and pick him up after an hour. Deepak interjected, "Why are you lying," and immediately Joran changed and said it was Satish who picked him up.

On the one hand, it's good to know things are moving forward, on the other it is frustrating to know that these three clowns continue to tell apparently untrue and, or confused, confusing and conflicting stories long after I would have cracked one up the side of the head with a rubber hose.

But then, that might not hold up in court ...

Comments

[bamamom]

That many more called in?
Drugs, drugs, drugs...Perhaps the Tatoo, docked for the night...makes a great place to divide up drugs to the punk dealers...for what ever reason they brought her along...maybe to impress her. Good southern girl with morals...did not approve. Maybe then she spouted what it is her "DADDY" does for a living...They think narc...My gut says..those boys would fold if they were covering up an accidental death. But if older, seedy Drug Dealers are involved...they are scared of the bigger picture.

[Mark]

Dan, its just ridiculous that they can't get the straight scoop out of a couple of clowns like this. Their stories change more than I change my boxers!..well, maybe not, but this is just getting ridiculous. I just can't believe that a couple of young men can control the whole situation.

[Jordan]

It is just me, or is that the most ridiculous report? Joran says he called Deepak to pick him up after an hour and when Deepak apparently calls him a liar, Joran switches his story and says that he called Satish instead. All 3 of these kids are in the same room while this is happening so why didn't Satish call him a liar too. Am I missing something? This case is getting more and more retarded everyday. Obviously all of these individuals are lying, but why are they allowed to be so overtly dishonest without immediate punishment. I mean is Satish that much of a spineless punk that he'll take the blame? Is Deepak that much of a loser that he'll allow Joran to point the finger at Satish, his brother, as well? I mean weren't satish and deepak together that night...so aren't they each others alibis? I've been following this story pretty closely since the beginning and if this report is correct the interrogators are the most incompetent individuals. This whole situation is an utter travesty and the Aruban police department is an extreme embarrassment.

[Lurker]

Bamamom,

I thought Nat's Dad was an insurance salesman. Is that not true? If not, what does her dad do for a living?

[bamamom]

Her real Dad, not step Dad...He was involved with special ops..government job...

[Lurker]

Um, I KNOW that it's her real dad! He is an INSURANCE SALESMAN, and even the company he works for was named. LOTS of people are FORMER Special Ops -- my physician friend is one. It doesn't mean SQUAT!!!

Her stepfather is a manager for Phoenix Metal, in case anyone is wondering.

[K.Jeanne]

So, Dan, what is your impression of the latest that Natalee's step-father feels a resolution is imminent? Does that mean confessions to murder...? They cannot charge murder in Aruba unless a body is found...correct? Just wondering what your gut feeling is about it?

[Mike]

Exactly Jordan,

This new report (along with many others) is utterly inane, nonsensical, bizarre, take your pick. Imagine this as a play in the theatre of the absurd!

[Sarah]

WEll the interview with Anita VS was interesting.. I honestly believe she thinks Joran is innocent.. He's Mama's sweet little boy.. Boy does he have her fooled! How can she explain his lies? How can she explain his gambling and unusual behavior? Even the other kids from Mountain Brook said he was wierd acting and hung out at the casino all day by himself..

[Sarah]

Wow..the Twitty's are really starting to open up about all their conversations with the Van der Sloot's that I've never heard before. NOw that the Van Der Sloots are talking to the media and trying to get sympathy, its time the Holloway's tell us exactly how Daddy VS treated them.

[JPinNC]

"...long after I would have cracked one up the side of the head with a rubber hose."

Awesome! We think so much alike it scary.

[bamamom]

Lurker,
Calm down...I was going on a post made earlier this week about Dad. Something to the effect that he had government connections...Regardless if he sells insurance now, and was government related in the past...I was making the speculation that it is possible...that a naive southern girl...with basically good values could find herself in a dangerous situation. It's kinda hard to "blend".

[Mel]

Watching the interview I found Joran's father to have a very stand offish and less than empathetic or caring attitude. His wife, just the opposite.

That being said, I do understand them advising their son not to say anything to anyone about the case. I would have done the same thing after the first few questions of when were you last with her, where did you see her, etc. My husband has been involved with federal law enforcement for 23 years and we have always advised us, our kids or anyone else to not say anything not to agree to any searches, etc if ever confronted by law enforcement.

This is NOT because we don't want them to tell the truth, but because the legal and media systems have a way of twisting the statements and facts to serve their own purposes. We would advise them to say nothing without an attorney present, regardless of guilt or innocence.

We have all read about or heard about people that are interviewed or confronted for hours and then erroneously confess JUST to get to go home, which then doesn't happen.

I do believe the boys know more than they are telling, but I hesitate to say at this point that they are guilty of murder. We haven't seen the proof of that.

Natalee's family, The three boys lives and that of their friends are now changed forever, regardless of the outcome.

[Jacque]

I watched Greta's interview with Anita (Joran's mother). Does not take a specialist to see that his mother is in Denial about her son. She only cried when asked how her son has ended up in the prison. There is no answer after she described him as the perfect son, honor student and devoted to her. She seems to be using the coping mechinism of "Denial" to hide the truth. It was too much when we were shown the christmas angel lit in her room with a prayer card including Natalee's picture. Hope the FBI Behavorial Specialist is present in an interview with her and Yoran's Dad.

[Sarah]

I wonder now if maybe even though Joran might have not been directly responsible for Natalee's disappearance, he is lying and changing his story to protect the person that is responsible, and Daddy knows he is protecting somebody and knows what really happened. Maybe these boys think if they tell the truth, they will end up missing like Natalee. I am sure this theory has been mentioned before. Also I didn't see anything in Jug's interview about 8 or 9 more suspects being brought in as witnesses. Maybe I missed it or something.

[gemebwai]

FYI, gambling by young kids on Aruba is usually their cheap way to get drinks. You buy 10$ of 5c coins and with that stay "gambling" for hours while drinks a freely served. I used to teach on a middle school on Aruba and had some of this kind of kids in class.

[loco]

I am atonished, Joran's mother is destroyed, Nathalee's mother is all smiles around the island and treating the locals so superficially that exactly remembers me of "Weekend at Charlie's".

Onr more thing to think. Joran is pissed off with Nathalee about something. The reason:
1) What do you want me to do !! hitting his breast
2) His mother quoted him as when she showed up I will kick her ass in front of her mother because all this we are through.

I do not know, this is a real mistery VDS behaviour as well as Beth. The more normal for me today was Jug. But yet the first night I believe his friend ruin the opportunity to talk with Joran and his father.

[michele]

Loco, Natalee's mom isn't being superficial.

She is simply being polite and trying to be strong.

Southern women try and talk with people as you see her doing.

She sounded apologetic to me, as if she was sorry for bothering these people yet again.

She isn't superficial.

[beachgirl]

I agree with Mel about advising my children not to talk or agree with just anything because things can always get twisted (by the lagal system & law enforcement to serve their own purposes), and then it would be too late.

To me, Joran's mother genuine. Father may seem less emphathetic BUT we have to remember that they are not speaking their first language. It is not easy to communicate exactly how you feel in another language. My relatives are German (living in Germany) and their physical mannerisms and verbal expressions are very different. And especially when they try to speak in English (and use slang---such as "kick her butt"), it can be easily misunderstood.

I don't know if "Jug" is the best representative of America either.

[JimmyJoeBillyBob]

Mel, I agree with what you said 100%, and the fact that dad told the son to stop talking does not imply guilt:

"That being said, I do understand them advising their son not to say anything to anyone about the case. I would have done the same thing after the first few questions of when were you last with her, where did you see her, etc. My husband has been involved with federal law enforcement for 23 years and we have always advised us, our kids or anyone else to not say anything not to agree to any searches, etc if ever confronted by law enforcement.

This is NOT because we don't want them to tell the truth, but because the legal and media systems have a way of twisting the statements and facts to serve their own purposes. We would advise them to say nothing without an attorney present, regardless of guilt or innocence."

Personally, I made the same decision for myself after I unsuccessfully tried to fight a traffic ticket once. I had a very good argument, but when I went to fight it in court, the cop took one of my comments to him from the day of the ticket completely out of context, and the judge found me guilty based on my "testimony". Forget that. Mum's the word next time, as I really do think I was driving just fine in that case and justice was not served. This was over 20 yrs ago, and it seems I am still ticked off about it!

jmho

[Sunny]

I found it interesting that Joran supposedly wanted to give information to help the Twittys find Natalee, but his Dad kept telling him not to say anything. IF Joran was completely innocent and had nothing to hide, why wouldn't the Dad at least let him talk, or even help them himself? Had his Dad already helped him come up with a story? ...just some thoughts

[K.Jeanne]

Michele, you are sooo right. Natalee's Mom is a gutsy, loving mother who is trying to find her daughter. She has made a commitment to be strong and leave no stone unturned in her search. Nothing matters personally for her but that she do everything she can. I am sure she puts on this face every day as she faces another day without her daughter, determined to be strong and see it to it's conclusion. Things cannot get much worse for her. Joran's mother still has her child in her sights and is trying to save him. She has no idea, yet, the grief or strength of Beth Holloway.

[beachgirl]

Loco,
OF COURSE Joran's mother is destroyed! Her son is in jail and could be accused of murder! How terrible.

You're right, Natalee's mother is a strong, brave woman. She IS amazing. But people react differently in these situations.

IF Joran is found guilty of murder, can you imagine how you would feel as a parent?

[ATLjoie]

I don't know if "Jug" is the best representative of America either.

Beachgirl, you took the words right out of my mouth.

[Man Fraid]

The Southern Rancheros showed up quizzing Joran. I would have told my kid to shut up and throw them off the property.

Those guys got followed to the beach with Natalee. There's more here than the 3 guys. These 3 kids can't get their story straight, much less plan on disposing a body.

Round-up the rest of the hench-men that were in C&C that night.

[JimmyJoeBillyBob]

OK, I agree with you too, beachgirl. I am as American as apple pie, but have been fortunate to know many very well people from both european and as asian cultures. The Dutch father reminds me very much of my German and also Norweigan acquaintances in that they are all quieter and more reserved than the "typical" American, if there is such a thing. Respectful mannerisms, imo.

I also thought it was very big of him to impromptu invite Greta and Beth H. into their home to discuss, knowing that his family is under incredible scrutiny, both legal as well as in the court of public opinion. I no longer think he is "in" on what Joran may have done, nor do I think he is obstructing justice. I do still think the cops have been bumbling, but agree that these are not master criminals and that the truth will inevitably come out - provided that we don't ever let go of this issue until it is 100% resolved!!!!

BTW, did folks pick up on the statement that the dad said about Joran sneaking out after dad picked him up to take him home at 11:00PM from McDonalds? Dad said that was against family rules, etc. Well, this is entirely plausable, esp. if you have ever been a rebellious teenager, as I am lucky enough to have survived a case of long ago. Strong willed kids can get into one heckuva mess, and I am dreading when my younger ones get older.

[ATLjoie]

JimmyJoe (love the name)- finally someone who sees reality as it is.

[Justin T]

Jimmyjoe,

The only problem or irony I see in the 11:00 curfew and its against the rules is that its ok to gamble and drink in the casinos. Kind an odd place to draw a line with your kid

[beebee]

in the real world these ductch suspect need to be in the company of sas,delta,kbg,etc so we can fuck them up and get the truth what rigts do these liers have.
nothing........and when they finish beating them like the NYP for just looking stuckup they can file for abuse!

[JimmyJoeBillyBob]

Man Fraid,

Oh sure, anything like that is possible. But I doubt it. About that night, questions I have are:

1) Which story is right - the one where thay ALL dropped her off at Holiday Inn, or the one where the Kalpoes dropped Joran and Natalee near Marriot 10 blocks away?

Since the Holiday Inn lobby cameras don't back it up and they seem to have jettisonned the first faulty coordinated alibi, then the 2nd one seems closer to being possible. If so, then how did Joran get home WITH Kalpoe so that they were both standing there at Joran's house leaning on Kalpoe's car when the Alabama folks pulled up to find them at the house the 2nd time?

3) What time did Joran call Kalpoe to pick him up to drive him back home, and where was the pick-up spot, compared to where Joran says he left Natalee?

4) If they drove him and her to make out and such at a lighthouse and dropped them off for some reason, then why did they not also give her a ride to HER hotel, Holiday Inn, ten blocks away, versus leaving her on the beach near Marriot for some anonymous low-lifes to finish-off? They knew damn well that she was staying at holiday Inn, so wtf?

Bottom line: They all did it. It was a bad scene to have so many involved. God rest her soul, imo. I hope they all fry or sit in jail for an eternity.

[nagpur]

Yes, I get also the feeling like JVDS was somehow pissed off about NH, I think she did such a thing to JVDS that it hurted his delicate ego, and that the situation in which NH now is, is fully her own fault...

[Mike]

"An additional eight or nine witnesses" will be brought in? It sounds like they were at a party. Perhaps an after-hour party. Where do these 8 or 9 witnesses come from? It wouldn't be unheard of to try to continue partying after the bars shut and to go somewhere where the party was still going on.

[beachgirl]

It is ENTIRELY plausible that Dad picked up Joran at 11:00 and he snuck out later. I remember when I was a teenager. I would have done that except that my family and I lived in a high rise in a big city. It just wasn't possible.

Teenagers can be very rebellious. I have one of my own(although she is mild, she can be difficult and stubborn). I have seen some wonderful parents who do everything right and their kids just don't turn out doing good things.

You CANNOT assume that because a child is rebellious and gets into trouble, that their parents don't care and are terrible parents.

As far as drinking alcohol at a young age. I was surprised as a teenager when I went to visit Germany. I was 16 and some of my relatives offered me the equivalent of a wine cooler. We were at a family get together and they all felt that it was a safe environment to drink in. My mother was NOT happy about that and took it away from me.

So in some countries people feel that it's ok for a minor to have a little alcohol in certain situations.

[JimmyJoeBillyBob]

Thanks, ATLjoie.

Well, I just try to inject some balance and sanity since these msg boards can hold all sorts of idiotic stuff as well as ugly intolerance. To really understand things is better than to shoot from the hip out of predjudice or uninformed opinion. No need for Arubans or Americans to start hating and hurting each other over the horrible deeds of a few guilty parties. Better to figure out the specifics and get on with life.

I agree with the folks that say to take a rubber hose to the lads. Put them on the rack, hook their privates up to a car battery, whatever. The keystone cops should have the info damn soon or we may all go crazy over here!!!

[tennessean]

Loco -- I'm a southern woman and I know hundreds of Beth Twittys! They are gentle, refined women with a spine of the hardest steel. That inner strength (and her faith) are what keep that woman going. I admire her incredible grace in what is the most terrifying situation I can imagine. I am the mother of 17- and 21-year-old daughters; my heart has been aching since I saw the first picture of Natalee three weeks ago. The thought that constantly runs through my mind is "there but for the grace of God go I". Terrible things can happen to any pretty, bright young (or even not so young) woman who lets her guard down for even a moment just because she's in the wrong place at the wrong time, or with the wrong person. I can assure you that this woman's heart is broken, and that the only thing keeping her going is her unyielding resolve to bring her daughter home.

As for Anita van der Sloot, I believe that her heart is broken as well, but it is because some part of her knows that her son is guilty. I do think she's in denial and trying desperately to convince herself that neither her son nor her husband have anything to hide.

[K.Jeanne]

nagpur, you said:

"she did such a thing to JVDS that it hurted his delicate ego, and that the situation in which NH now is, is fully her own fault..." !!!!!!!!!!!!

Surely you jest, nagpur? How can you believe anyone has the right to deny someone their life because their "delicate ego" has been hurt????

[jasmina]

Maybe then she spouted what it is her "DADDY" does for a living.

Bamamom- and what sort of idiotic name is Bam-a-mom (GROW UP). I am sorry, but, I have been reading these blogs for weeks now and I have never posted anything- even when other irresponsible statements are embellished. It kills me to listen to these immature comments...you should be absolutely ashamed of your ignorant tone. You and others have lost sight of the reality of this grueling situation. It is REAL. Get it? It is REAL LIFE AT ITS DARKEST. Maybe you are a teenager or you are still to young to have respect. Dan, are you not a grown man? Why would you permit posts like this? Insults they are, insults. Not helpful nor insightful. All of this musing is pathetic.

[Man Fraid]

JimmyJoe,

For them to 'fry in jail' you need a body and enough trace evidence. The Arubian LE don't appear to have either. Inconsistent story can only get you so much.

There has to be more capable players here that disposed of that body, miles off-shore. Unless they get a 'deal' of where that body is, these guys will WALK (months from now).

[beebee]

it simple we all do a house to house search the hell with rights

[JimmyJoeBillyBob]

tennessean,

I'm not from the south, but if there are hundreds of Beth Twitty's down there, they make me proud, and I mean it. That woman is something. At first, I questioned her decision to let her daughter even go on that trip. But now I think it was just an example of a low-odds disaster striking, despite the parents best guesses and hopes about what to say "yes" to. My kids ask me for stuff constantly, and it's a struggle to make these decisions daily. And the stakes go up as they get older and the requests more "problematic".

I just hope she finds peace no matter what the outcome. And I think she will, since she is so strong and faithful.

[Man Fraid]

Tennessean,

Would your heart ache if one of your daughters was accused of something, guilty or not?

What parent won't stand behind their child. What parent won't defend the character of their kid. Anita van der Sloot has just as much right to show compassion and love for her kid as Ms Holloway for her daughter.

At this point, who knows, she may be right about his innocence. This is wide open as to what really happened.

[SParker1]

I have been following this story because I have a 19 year daughter that graduated 2 years ago. She wanted to go on a trip with her girlfriends like Natalee. I almost let her go but I ended up taking her and a friend to San Diego. I can't imagine what her mother is going through. My prayers are with her and Natalee.
On a different note. My husband is an attorney. Let me tell you... our children have been told.......DONT SAY ANYTHING..... If they are ever questioned by police. The point is here, Joran Van Der Sloot is not going to talk until his father tells him to. Are plea deals allowed under Danish law?

[kath]

Jasmina - 'Bama'mom as in 'ALAbama'mom.

[tennessean]

JimmyJoeetc. -- thanks for the compliment about southern women. They don't call us steel magnolias for nothing! I can't claim that I'd be able to handle myself as graciously as Beth, though. I'm afraid I would be screaming and prostrate on the ground 24/7. I won't forget this woman; she's truly amazing. By the way, with a name like yours I can't believe you're not from the south -- ;-)

ManFraid -- please notice that I never said Anita van der Sloot doesn't have the right to be just as devastaed in her own way as Beth Twitty. As a mother I empathize completely with her. There is no hurt greater than when your children are hurt or in any kind of pain, emotional or otherwise. I feel tremendously sorry for Anita -- but my mom instinct still tells me that she is more fearful of finding out the truth than anything. My role model for families who do the right thing are the Hackings from Utah. Mark Hacking's brothers went to the police with the true story of what happened to his wife Lori rather than circling the wagons and trying to keep the truth from coming out at all costs. If I am ever in their position, God forbid, I hope I would have the courage to do the same... And if Paulus van der Sloot is in that position, or if Anita at some point finds herself there, I pray that they will do the right thing for Natalee's and Beth's (and all their families/friends/supporters) sake.

[kath]

I think the most profound statement I've heard came from Mark Fuhrman when he stated there is an element of criminality in the act of lying. At this point, after so many lies and uncorroborated versions of what happened after C&Cs, I am beginning to suspect that every last bit of Joran and Kalpoes stories are fiction. I think the theory of the boys taking Natalee to someone's home for some illicit activity makes more sense. It brings these so-called other/soon to be detained individuals into the scheme in a way that makes much more sense than a 'cleanup' on the beach. And Joran and Kalpoes leaving Natalee at this home could explain the statement made by one of the Kalpoes that 'she would probably turn up in a crack house in a few days' and also explain why Joran state he 'hoped to God she was alive'. Both are statements that seem to reveal uncertainty about her fate.

And I have to say, there does seem to be a lot of street-level drug peddling to tourists going on...and from the street level you work your way up to distributors and manufacturers, tough characters without a doubt. With loose drug laws, limited educational opportunities after high school and a cost of living driven up by tourism, it makes sense that some young locals will end up in this line of work. Perhaps Natalee inadvertently found herself in the company of these people. I agree with the notion she may have seen and heard things she shouldn't have.

[Jutebug]

Dave Holloway was interviewed tonight by Nancy Grace of CNN. He said he expects a resolution very quickly, with more questioning of more witnesses to come. She also talked to Marianne Croes with the prosecutor's office and she said there will be 8 or 9 more witnesses brought in shortly for questioning.

[JimmyJoeBillyBob]

Agree with you, tennessean. As much as I love my kids and have spent their whole lifespans trying to protect them from anything and everything, if I was ever in the horrible situation to know that one of them had done such a thing, it would be agonizing but I know I would not lie or cover-up for them. They would know what to expect from me too, because they know what I believe in and also what I expect from them. Choices are personal and so are the consequences, so make good ones that you can live with, young people!

I lived in New Mexico for a few years. Is that close enough? Maybe that with my name and I'd be an honorary south'ner. (grew up in Chicago though)...

[Man Fraid]

Tennessean,

Sure in the case of mark Hacking's that was admirable.

But, what if its like the Gary Condit situation, where he was hammered, only to find out, Chandra was the victim of a common criminal.

If the parents pressed Joran and he was determined in his denial. Then they'll have to believe him and hope the outcome proves it. If he's lying, then he's truly lying to himself.

Many of us have had to confront a teenager about something. At somepoint, they way the kid may defend casues you to realize just maybe the kid is telling the truth. Listen.

[tennessean]

Wow, JJBB, you took the words right out of my mouth! I couldn't get my thoughts to come out nearly so eloquently, but we're definitely on the same wavelength. Would you mind if I borrow this statement: "Choices are personal and so are the consequences, so make good ones that you can live with, young people!" This should be the mantra of all parents.

And just so everyone knows (reading back on my posts I'm afraid it could be inferred that they might be "problem children"), I'm so proud of my daughters! They're great kids, honor students (there's that label again), hard workers, everything I could have wanted in my children. That doesn't mean that I don't still worry about them, or that I don't know that there's a whole world of temptations and dangers out there. I just have to take it on faith that they will continue to make the right choices as they have up to this point. Natalee could be any of our daughters, a girl who was spreading her wings and likely making some choices that she felt safe enough in Aruba to do. No choice should have led to what has probably happened to her, though -- there is no excuse for taking advantage of any other human being!

[tennessean]

"But, what if its like the Gary Condit situation, where he was hammered, only to find out, Chandra was the victim of a common criminal." Did I really just read that, ManFraid???? How did I miss the Chandra Levy case being solved? Can you please provide me with the common criminal culprit's name? (Note: I still think Condit did it with the assistance of a hired helper/staffer!)
Plus, I think Paulus knows what happened, but Anita doesn't...

I forgot, JJBB: Chicago is my kind of town! I totally love that city. You can certainly be an honorary southerner after your kind comments above -- southern is an attitude more than anything else anyway. You can take a southerner out of the south, but you can't take the south out of them (Diane Sawyer is my favorite classic souther belle who hasn't lived here in 40+ years).