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Monday, June 20, 2005

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Does anyone know how Dutch Law compares to American Law when it comes to circumstancial evidence? I ask this because I am growing increasingly concerned that none of these three (or now four) suspects are going to crack, and if not, how long can they hold them, how effectively can they build a case?

I am truly starting to feel (as tough as this is to say) that they may hold to their stories, never find a body, never figure out what exactly happened, and be forced to release all of the suspects and let them walk. That would be the worst case scenario... they all walk, and we never find out what happened to poor Natallee.

A few weeks ago I was 99% sure that the suspects stories would fall apart and the truth would be revealed, but I am losing confidence in that. What is the possibility of what I mentioned happening, how does circumstancial evidence in Dutch Law work? Thoughts?

F.Face, you are blatently wrong.

Joran was a good looking, affluent, young man who had his way with girls, knew the island inside and out and (likely) had connections everywhere he went. It would be very easy to see why a 18yr old girl celebrating her graduation, off parting and drinking on a Carribean island for the first time in her life might befriend, or wander off, with him on her last night there. Have you ever been 18 before? Sure, there is a possibility that she was lured or tricked into going with them, but the MUCH more realistic/likely scenario is that they were simply 'hooking up'. It was her last night there after all...

Get your head out of the sand, bud.

rubbish, she's acknowledged as being shy, she certianly didn't go out of her way to "befriend" this loser, rather he targetted her since she is blond and blue eyed which correlates with his past girlfriend, who dumped him, read the archives, and hung around fawning over her. In order to do what he did. This does not as the imbecile dutch reporter has so carefully crafted and worded to make it come across as it was her doing, "holloway befriened her son".

this is a distinct and subtle "non"-mistake of language. A careful plant toreate FUD

The original Ducth article:
----------
De rechter, wiens 17-jarige zoon vastzit op verdenking van moord op een Amerikaans meisje is zaterdag en zondag naar het politiebureau
in het centrum van Oranjestad, Aruba, gesommeerd om te getuigen. De politie heeft rechter Paulus van der S. op beide dagen urenlang gehoord
over wat hij weet van wat er in de nacht van zondag op maandag precies drie weken geleden is gebeurd met de 18-jarige Natalee Holloway uit Alabama. Holloway was in de week daarvoor bevriend geraakt met zijn zoon Joran van
der S. Holloway, die met 124 andere jongeren voor een vijfdaagse trip naar Aruba waren gegaan om te vieren dat ze waren geslaagd voor hun eindexamen, is als laatste gezien met Joran van der S. en twee van zijn beste vrienden, de broers Satish en Deepak K. Het drietal zit in voorlopige hechtenis sinds donderdag 9 juni, anderhalve week na de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse. Televisieploegen, fotografen en verslaggevers zagen zaterdagavond rond tien uur een lange man met een zwartomrande bril en dezelfde borstelige wenkbrauwen als Joran van der S. het politiebureau verlaten. Het was rechter-in-opleiding Paulus van der S. Zodra de cameraman van nieuwszender CNN zijn cameralicht aanknipte, trok Van der S. een sprint naar een zilveren Mercedes verderop in de straat.,,Meneer, meneer, waarom rent u?'', riep een man in het Engels die zojuist een bar aan de overkant van de straat verliet. ,,Bent u gearresteerd?'' Van der S. gaf geen antwoord maar liep in plaats daarvan zo hard als hij kon naar de auto. Een halve minuut later stoof de Mercedes, die hij gebruikt sinds de politie de twee familie-auto's in beslag heeft genomen, de hoek om. Hoewel Paulus van der S. volgens familieadvocaat Anthony Carlo geen
verdachte is op dit moment, heeft het Hof van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba hem vanwege de vermissingszaak op non-actief gesteld. Dat vertelde zijn vrouw Anita vrijdagavond bij hun woning in de wijk Montanje. Anita van der S. was die avond behoorlijk overstuur. Ze hield twee blauwe handdoeken stevig tussen haar armen en boezem geklemd. De handdoeken waren bedoeld voor Joran, die net te horen had gekregen dat hij en zijn vrienden Satish en Deepak acht dagen langer in de cel moeten blijven. ,,Mijn zoon zou
deze week naar de Verenigde Staten gaan om te studeren'', vertelde de moeder. Tranen rolden over haar wangen. Paulus van der S. vergezelde zijn vrouw naar het politiebureau van het
verderop gelegen dorpje Noord waar Joran vast zit. Hij mocht echter niet mee naar binnen om de handdoeken aan hun zoon te geven. De rechter-commissaris die met de zaak is belast, had namelijk diezelfde avond een daags eerder
genomen besluit teruggedraaid dat Van der S. zijn minderjarige zoon mag bezoeken. Van der S. senior heeft zijn zoon niet mogen zien sinds de
aanhouding anderhalve week geleden. In tegenstelling tot de anderen behoort de vierde verdachte, Steve C., een 26-jarige dj op de partyboot Tattoo, niet tot de hechte vriendengroep van Joran van der S. en de gebroeders K. Volgens zijn baas Marcus Wiggins heeft C., Deepak K. leren kennen in een internetcafé. Hij zegt dat C. vrijdag is aangehouden nadat hij de avond daarvoor rijwillig een getuigenverklaring had afgelegd. C. wordt - net als de andere drie - verdacht van moord, doodslag of opzettelijke vrijheidsberoving met de dood tot gevolg. Zijn familie, die C. niet mag bezoeken, begrijpt er niets van. ,,Steve zou nooit iemand vermoorden'', zegt ex-vrouw en moeder van de 3-jarige Steve junior, Jeanet
Gei. ,,Hij zou al in tranen uitbarsten als hij op een hagedis zou trappen.'' Wat er precies aan de hand is, weten zelfs zijn twee advocaten niet.,,Wij hebben tot nu toe geen documenten gezien'', zei een van hen, Berry Weijers,
zaterdag. ,,We weten alleen wat onze cliënt ons gisteren heeft verteld.'' Wat dat was, wilde hij niet zeggen. Hoofdofficier van justitie Karin Janssen beslist vandaag of C. acht dagen langer achter de tralies moet blijven.
-----
You may translate it as you wish, but....

bevriend geraakt (/raken) = to become friends
Mercedes = Mercedes

;-)

Your first post implies that rather than befriending him, she wanted nothing to do with this kid, and he tricked and lured her into his grasps. That is downright ignorance!

Sure she has been painted as shy by the media, heck, the media has painted her to be absolutely perfect in every way (<-- something to take with a grain of salt, as we know no human being is perfect). That doesn't mean that she wasn't interested in hooking up with someone, in this case, Joran. I would bet 80-90% of those that went on the trip hooked up with someone. This is WHAT YOU DO when you go away on a senior trip to a Carribean island where you are legally allowed to drink and party the night away! What planet do you live on??

That is what Maaike Ruepert reported.

We have not received confirmation if the car is a Mercedes, but does it really matter?

If you interpret the sentence: -- Holloway was in de week daarvoor bevriend geraakt met zijn zoon Joran van der S.-- It just states (from the Holloway perspective), that they befriended each ohter in the week prior to her disappearance.

----

Dan keep up the good work !

Can anyone confirm that Joran tried to committ suicide? I can't find anything that substantiates the information posted earlier. I certianly couldn't find anything on CBS' website on it.

Any real info on this topic would be appreciated.

Don't worry about that guy, his views are simple because he is a narrowminded racist.

Fuckface, your moniker suits you.

All those who live in Aruba with their eyes open know the horrors in the shadows. Arubans choose to look the other way as in times past it protected their very lives….but this crime has placed the little dutch island in a very bright light…the purest form of light know as the Lord. She is in his care and will be delivered safely into his kingdom or her mothers arms, but Aruba will never recover, noone will accept she died of a OverDose and dumped into Boca Mahos, that story, told for so many years, is finally finished. She has been abducted and sold as too many of Gods lambs have been over the years. The DEA has well mapped out human trade routes and now all the world is exposed to the evil.

My God this is awful! A young girl, just tasting life, is done in by some preditor in the Island of her dreams! The sad part is she had not enough experience to develop the sense that warns us "this is not right." She was way in over her head to begin with. It is sickening to think of what she went through. But most of all, a life that could have achieved, contributed to the good of all, has now been denied. To whom ever contributed to this dastardly deed, I say: may *they* rot in hell!

Aruba is a shit hole, plain and simple. it is a banana republic, plain and simple. it is like the KKK that owned the deep south in the USA many years ago. It is a little piece of land owned by drug lords. But that is about to change. Who will be the weakest link? The Aruban Government's keystone cop coverup attempt of course. The US will shut down its cheaply built hotels over the next couple of years citing decreased revenues. concurrently, you will see an increased focus of intel on the netherlands and the aruban govt and banks. They will all go down.

Natalee Holloway WAS NOT SHY!! She was studious and focused, but also VERY FRIENDLY!! Outgoing and gregarious. Just because someone is a good student DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE SHY!!!

These discussions make no mention of Amy Lynn Bradley? Wasn't she also missing from this area? This could be a pattern of abductions of young ladies in this area. If this is the case, tourists need to be warned of the dangers.

jdh

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