Aruba Breaking

4:00 PM Update: It is being supposed that the elder v d Sloot has nothing to hide, hence the earlier waiver. Potentially, if investigators believe he has given them whatever truth he knows, he could be released tonight, barring enough evidence to hold him as a suspect in the case. That does not mean that he will necessarily incriminate Joran in some way by stating what he knows.

3:45 Update: Geraldo's amazing report: Steve Croes voluntarily went to the police and said he saw the boys drop Natalee off at the Holiday Inn - a story from which the boys later backed away. Subsequently, Croes was detained because he apparently showed himself to be willing to lie in support of his friends in this matter. Interesting look at the Dutch justice system: no sign of a recent haircut for Geraldo.

3:37 PM Update: The judge will render his decision as to whether or not Paulus v d Sloot will remain in custory at 8PM tonight. Interesting timing of events, in my opinion. It is at least possible that the elder v d Sloot could offer some information in the next few hours under waiver cited in 3:33 PM update that would secure his release. Otherwise, it is unclear as to why the judge wouldn't simply issue the Paulus v d Sloot ruling now, as he has done in all other suspect hearings today. Geraldo is said to be coming up with some "amazing" discovery ... maybe he finally located a good barber on the island. He's been looking a little ragged. : ) Developing, as they say.

3:33 PM Update: Fox is reporting that Paulus v d Sloot has waived his right to not testify against his son. The ramifications and reasoning for this are not yet known. Developing.

2:30 PM Update: Fox interview with lawyer for one of Kalpoe brothers, attorney seems to be pointing finger at Joran, suggests his changing story that first Deepak and then Satish picked him up at beach is troubing, at best. Kalpoe brothers said to be aware of Joran's changing story line. Lawyer also states he sees no advancement in the procecution's theory or story line and evidence relating to the case since last hearing. Also, only remaining suspect with no known word of hearing result is Paulus v d Sloot - Croes to be freed at 1 PM tomorrow, all others appear to be being held over until next hearing.

2:12 PM Update: From reader / comment -- Court hearings are not normally held on weekends and justice department does not work on weekends. If a hearing should take place on saturday or sunday (when the 24 hours or 8 days terms expires) they move this to the next working day. However because of the importance of the case, they did the courthearing on a weekend, but no official paperwork can be done till the next working day, in this case monday.

1:26 PM Update: As of now, of four cases heard, only Croes to be released. Earlier report stated Joran and Deepak remain in custody. All that was known of Croes connection was an email from Deepak night of disappearance. Croes was not a friend of Joran v d Sloot.

The hurdle for the prosecutor to hold a suspect gets higher over time, the requirements for keeping Croes in custody were higher as a result of his time of incarceration. It's unclear if prosecutors have enough to keep Paulus v d Sloot if he had the same requirements. The shorter term of his detention makes it easier to hold him. The Fox report did not clearly claim the older v d Sloot is being held, but it appears likely.

1:14 PM Update: Fox reporting that Steven Croes, party boat DJ to be released tomorrow, according to his lawyer.

12:50 Update: Fox reporting Joran and Deepak detention extended. Geraldo claimed to have fragmentary reports some of those detained may be released - then he seemed confused suggesting his report meant 'released" from the court house to be returned to jail. As posted yesterday, I've heard unconfirmed rumblings from sources on the island that one, or possibly two of those detained will be released today.

Fox News is reporting that the hearing in Aruba is now over. Hopefully a statement as to the outcome will be coming soon. I'll update this post as appropriate.

12:05 PM-Update: Clarification - only the hearing for Joran v d Sloot is over, additional hearings for the others being held are still to come.

Comments

[willo]

I wonder if PVDS was detained not only to pressure JVDS, but to encourage the Kalpoes to talk about PVDS role. They may have feared him when he was on the outside as "a judge," but now that he's in jail, too, they may see that his power isn't so great and may feel more comfortable talking.

[willo]

Now Fox says PVDS has waived his right not to testify against his son. Can that be correct? That would be amazing!

[Stumped]

Wow, too bad the Aruban Polis didn't take them into custody the first night they were questioned. Their bodies probably had her DNA all over them, under nails...on clothing, shoes. Might have even had some scratches on them somewhere. What a shame it wasn't checked out at the time. With 10 whole days to clean-up, we may never know the answers to many of these things. God Bless Natalee and her poor family, what a tragedy to have to go through.

[tideroller]

Question for you all. OK, so Croes is being released. Not enough evidence. But, none-the-less he did lie to the polis, did he not? I mean, supposedly he was taken in because he had confirmed their fake alibi about dropping Natalee off at the HI. Is perjury not a crime in Aruba?

[ExGman]

Sassy Im glad someone is willing to at least consider the possibility. A drug OD is a distinct possibility, but what has happened to her? The timeline just doesnt leave much room for a secure disposal of her remains.

[tideroller]

BTW, could it be that he has waived his right, so that he can continue lying for his son?

[DeeDee]

Willo: I am inclinded to believe as you, with the elder VDS in jail, the brothers may feel more at ease to rat out Joran. Or.....other theory, if all are involved in a kidnapping the elder VDS may be in protective custody. I did notice that the day they took him in, his windows were boarded up before leaving his home as if he knew he were going in, also his wife is gone, and the Holloways made a huge offer of $150000 for Natalies "Safe" return. All the same day dad went to jail. If there is human trafficing involved then the beheading on the island of no crime last week adn the missing person would probably sooner or later be linked to this cover up suddenly unraveling.

[DeeDee]

Also, if human trafficing is involved they would all be so afraid to speak. Can you imagine the danger their families would be in. We are talking hugh implications and drug lords who make the HOffa case in America look like a picnic.

[ExGman]

What to make of the waiver by P V-S??
My take is that means that P V-S's testimony will not contradict J V-S's most recent statment, nor will it contradict the brothers latest version. This means that the four of them will stick to the story that J VS was alone with NH from about 130 till 2 at the beach then walked home, arriving at 240. J V-S will stand firm that he left NH at the beach and thats the last he saw of her. The fact that the DJ is being released also underscores this....the authorities at this point cannot prove a body was disposed of, nor can they prove GBT was given to NH, hence no reason to hold Croes.
I look for other individuals to be brought in in the next 48 hours. I have a strong feeling that the authorities know that NH came in contact with other people after 2 am that morning.........

[willo]

I hope the theory that PVDS is waiving his right simply to support his son's statements is not correct. I was hoping PVDS had come to his senses and was going to be honest! What a tangled web.

[DennisAOK]

Good points, tideroller. Would Steve's loyalty to Deepak be so strong that he would commit perjury for him and two others whom he does not know?

[Awryit]

ExGman: as per delivery or by random chance ccident

[Awryit]

*accident

[Midge]

Well if Croes did lie why isn't that enough to keep him in jail? although I hear they don't have obstruction laws like we do here. But still why would he lie?

[Stumped]

Check this out- Seems that JVDS is trying to pin the whole thing on the Kalpoe Brothers. Reads in part:

Satish now claims that he and brother dropped Holloway and van der Sloot off together at the Marriott hotel, then went home, his lawyer, David Kock, said.

Today, Kock said the brothers were becoming increasingly angry with van der Sloot and accusing him of changing his story to put the blame for Holloway's disappearance on them.

Kock would not elaborate.

Van der Sloot's lawyer, Antonio Carlo, said, "My client maintains his innocence."

The fifth person in custody is van der Sloot's father, Paul, 52.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/3241649

[willo]

Yes, Midge, why would Steve voluntarily go to police and tell a lie to cover his friend? Makes me wonder what JVDS has to hold over Steve.

[brian]

deedee what you're saying is something ive been saying all along. anything is possible at this point. if croes is being released that means the likely theory of natalee being in the ocean is pretty much thrown out. he was the only one who had access to a boat and even him using it in this scenario was questionable to begin with. if she were buried, certainly their would be some sort of trail somewhere to her whereabouts. if she left at 1 am, died between 2-3 am and you now have to conceal a body by buring her where do you do that? how many differences of opinions might you have on the best location to do so? where do you get the shovels? how long does it take to dig a hole and bury her? how long does it take to clean up? what do you do with the clothing were wearing (certainly you'd be dirty), does this all fit into a time frame for joran to make it to school next day? how can NO ONE see you driving around on an island assuming you'd want to conceal her body from the furthest location of where you would have claimed to have been last? theres no such thing as a perfect crime and to suggest that these individuals pulled it off is just as much of a stretch as it is to suggest she's in a sex trade somewhere. i dont think VDS's or the kalpoes are major players in anything (including sex/drug rings) but ive suggested that they were possibly in trouble with some people much badder on the island and/or surrounding countries. and do i think they'd pawn off an innocent girl to save thier own asses? absolutely. ironically, as time goes by with no body, it increases the argument both for and against why shes alive. time will tell.

[Midge]

Yeah, I still think J is guilty of something. Why lie otherwise?

[marty]

I noticed that Natalee has a nickname of "Hoots" used by her close girlfriends. Does anyone know what that is all about???

[tideroller]

Well, I think I'm with Canadian Girl. If you lie, it's to cover something up. Deepak has changed his story so many times now, that I thinks he's implicated more than just giving the initial ride. I think they are still lying about the drop-off point, too. AT this point I think it was Joran, in the apartment, with ectasy.

[DeeDee]

This would not be the first case of trafficing off Aruba. The Aruba local paper had an article the first week of this mystery about a young local girl being sold by her brother into a ring and she was being sent to Venezuala. The paper that Julie Renfro writes for. I agree with you Brian that these kids could not pull off the perfect crime without help. Did they check the small boat for DNA, I never heard it was seized? Nevertheless, the longer we go without evidence the more likely she could have been kidnapped right off the beach. A boat could have been at the lighthouse waiting for them. Yes, since Joran has so much fun gambling his debts could have lured him into something of more profit. Also, remember Amy Bradley. Yesterday another woman is missing off another cruise ship. The Elation after a visit to Belize. This link it the Houston article. She may have gone overboard, they are not sure. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3241194 I hope the press will take the opportunity to expose the seedier side while they are given this excuse for research. Prostitution and slavery still exist in the Carribean and event the state dept has issue with it on thier website but it is not posted as a warning to tourist.

[kay]

In the People Magazine article the oddest sentence I read was the description of the room that Natalee stayed in...
it was on the first floor with doors leading out to the sand... this is the most dangerous place for girls to stay while
on vacation because it is the most likely to be easily broken into ...

[Daisy]

I heard on At Large last night, Geraldo interview the Prime Minister of Justice. Geraldo asked him when he last saw Sloot. He said not long ago when Sloot came to his office to discuss his rejection of a judgeship and if there was any openings in the Justice Department for him.

Fox News keeps reporting Sloot is in line for a judgeship. This comment has gone over everyone's head including Geraldo's. I wonder why Sloot was rejected and if this has anything to do with Sloot Jr.

[gemebwai]

PvdS failed his exam in Holland, therefore will never be accepted for a judge position (as he planned earlier). Logically he's looking to find another job in the justice dep. as he was on a job preparing him to be a judge.

[willo]

Daisy, some info on the PVDS in the article Dan mentioned earlier today....you can read it here:
http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/11/2005

But it also makes you wonder if officials were aware that PVDS was breaking the law...or enabling his son to break the law...with underage gambling and drinking.

[ExGman]

Boat waiting at the lighthouse?? No way. That end of the island has a very rugged coastline. No beach area around the lighthouse. Nearest beach is Arashi Beach, which is known for its outstanding windsurfing.

[KarlosFandango]

Daisy, this was touched on a few days in one of the ealiers forums. PVDS failed an exam required for the Judges position. Having failed, there was no chance for him to assume the position. If I remember correctly he found out about his failure the week before NH went missing.

[gemebwai]

About the "obstruction of justice" thing for Steve, legally he would only be in trouble if this was by a sworn statement (in court) which he never did. True enough Aruba youths tend to stand up for their friends, not always a good choice though.

[DeeDee]

Thanks ExGman, so the first lie the boys told was the lighthouse. I stand corrected, they delivered at the Arashi beach if the pick up theory is correct. Speculation of course but since the clues ended at the beach, I tend to think her presence on the island ended there also.

[brian]

deedee, interesting i had not heard about those stories. just goes to show you anything is possible. i still say a kidnapping scenario is as likely as any, but i dont think that those in custody would be the ones who would have orchestrated the plot. this is PURELY speculation but has anyone considered the idea that their could be a much more political motivation behind natalee's disappearance? theres lots of questions floating around now about PVDS judgeship. is it possibile that someone didnt like the fact that they knew someone whose dad was about to become a judge in aruba. what kind of line does PVDS draw on drug trades? think their could be some blackmailing going on? threats? i definetly dont think those in custody are innocent, im just not sure i think their exactly the masterminds of any kidnapping scenario. simply the ones who carried out.

id also like to add that everyone seems to think PVDS is some master of law and crime, like he plotted a coverup so perfectly. PVDS may know the law and the LOGISTICS of a coverup, but how many times has he carried one out? and to get it so perfectly on his first try? there is no way, unless this wasn't his first time.

also, this story about the woman whom the police once thought was natalee holloway and brought her parents, this leads me to conclude to one thing. if the police thought this was natalee holloway, then they are MOST CERTAINLY exploring all possibilities in this case and a kidnapping scenario is absolutely on the table. if they she knew she was dead, this wouldn't even have become an issue. i said it before and ill say it again, theres something much larger brewing in this case and if wrong and ill admit it, but not until im proven otherwise.

[DeeDee]

Brian, I agree and I think Greta will be on to this. She has that sixth sense that many reporter don't have. I expect to hear some of what you and I suspect to come out in her reports soon. Just speculation at this point but highly probable.

[harry]

Dolphin -

I think it's plausible that Natalee willingly left with the 3 locals because of :
a. the fight at CNC's between JVDS and Reynolds
b. intoxication by alcohol & possibly drugged (X-tacy)

Since Croes has been let go, I agree that the amateur boat theory is dead. However, this does not rule out a kidnapping by BIG TIME THUGS. Arashi beach could have been the rendevous point for the transfer.

Otherwise, I hope they are also using those cadaver dogs in the Sloots backyard!!!! Check to see if they have any barrels in the bushes !! Or freshly dug areas.

[harry]

the BIG TIME THUGS theory would also explain why everyone is tight lipped about the truth.

There might be DEATH on their minds if they spill the beans. Can we say COLUMBIAN NECKTIE ?

Remember the headless body found in the cemetary like last week !

[sara]

did they do a search of the vds house/yard when they took the 2 vehicles from them?

[fokje]

Is it known what mrs. van der sloot was doing in holland? Why did she go there and when?

[brian]

harry, interesting you mention that. i suggested one of the reasons interrogations were at such a deadlock were because people were afraid to talk due to the implications outside of being in jail in previous forums and people laughed it off. wheres jorans mom now that her son and husband are in jail? how can investigators not crack a 17, 18, and 21 yr old? why is PVDS now agreeing to talk about his son if he figured in any way that it would incriminate his son directly? especially if he was the mastermind of a coverup. why is the media so afraid to cover a story of kidnapping, especially when its a sensationalized story? because their being asked not to? everyone seems so sure this isnt possible yet no one knows anything about this investigation and whats really going.

[willo]

fokje, I think it was reported that Mrs. VDS was in Holland for a family celebration of some kind.

[Donny]

@Fokje

She was in Holland because of a family celebration. See foxnews.com video-section (right above) than scroll left to "on the record" to "A mothers pain". More video's about this case available.

[phunk]

ExGman - Arashi is not the windsurfing beach. The water is very calm at arashi which is in view of the lighthouse and no problem for boats to anchor.
Boats anchor to snorkel there all the time.

[harry]

I originally was not for the kidnapping/sex trade theory, but I am much more convinced now that this is what happened.

Even more reasoning, if they let PVDS go, this would dispell the theories (Pretty much anyway) that he was some sort of "master-mind cleanup" accomplice.

Which would also dispell the theories that JVDS murdered her, or had a body. What would he do with the body in such a short timeframe with no help ? Aside from a quickly dug grave or tossed off the rocks, there is no explaination without experienced help. They most surely would find a sloppy hidden body.

So now as the developments unfold in the court, I think many of the theories that have blossomed will die out.

I am seriously thinking pros were involved and she was kidnapped.

[Moscow Girl]

I think Joran and the Brothers originally "lied" not because they were covering up something "horrid", but because of all the "grand scale hoopla" starte by the girl's parents at 3 am the next day, and avalnche of media and hysteria.....

It is apparent to me that the girl's parents barged into their house at 3 am and addressed them in the most acussatory form: "What did you do to my daugher!!!!!????", or something like that.... Bad move, parents! What happened to your own "American principle" - innocent till proven guilty?

It would have been much more effective for the "Southern Bell" the mother is, is to ASK for cooperation, not accuse!

So, if the boys did share drinks, drugs, if one had a spout with the girl about sex, or had consensual sex...... Then the boys automatically thought "oh! my! god! these people will get us for something!" And their first reaction was "we dropped her off at HI".

When later the accusations changed to possible drugging/rape/murder...... the stakes became different, and when their story was proven a lie, they started telling a more realistic sequence of events.....

But what I do see, even if the story changes, is that ALL of them, even now when set-up against each other, they ALL keep insisting that they "left her someplace, but she was alive".

These boys don't look like rocket scientists.... it's unlikely they could have pulled off a perfect crime in such a short time, in the middle of the night, in a state of panick.

Without for one second trying to minimize the fear and hell the girl's parents are going through internally, I noticed that the girl's step-father's bullish attitude could have put a fear of god into boys, who might have thought at the time "he's after us even if we just got her drunk or stoned".......

Look at her father's behavior on TV! He came wanting "blood", and from day 1 it was: Joran is bad! his father is bad! Everyone (but him) is arrogant!

I think, from what I see on TV, Joran's father is acting like a civilized calm polite person, yes - reserved, but very civilized and well mannared.

Everyone's mothers (but Natalee's) are showing genuine feelings, crying, sobbing, being emotional, expressing HONEST FEELINGS any mother would in such situation.

Natalee's step-father is acting like "the voice of world law and order", a typical Red Neck (even if he is wealthy), who came to the island with the "ultimate knoledge of what's right and how it should be done", and if its not done his way, then it's wrong and everyone is bad.

Natalee's mother (I am sure she is in hell and hurting) is acting like a "hostess at a party", being "superficially nice", the typical "hi-how-are-you, fine-thank-you", "how was your day? oh just great!" behavior..... Not one single emotion on her face or in her body language...... I don't know if it is her personality, or is it cultural..... But there is no SENCERITY in her behavior... She is in hell emotionally! What's with acting like she is on "Oprah"...?

And then her husband again.... Spitting venom at everyone.... accusing other parents of all "evils", while his body language and conduct is of a bully foodball player!

What if the boys did not hurt their daughter? What if the mother came acting like mothers in the rest of the world would (crying, pleading), and the step father would have not attacked them... maybe the boys would not lie.... What if they thought "the girl will be found soon, but one of us will be accused of giving drugs and having sex with angelic suburbina girl"... So they lied.... but not because they are hiding murder.

[brian]

harry,

even if natalee's body was buried theres a few things you have to consider which could entirely discount that theory. put yourself in his shoes, you have a girl whom has just died in your hands. how many thoughts are racing through your head? how clearly are you thinking? how easy it to make a mistake? if one or both of the kalpoes or PVDS helped bury her, how many possible disagreements could you have on WHERE the best place to bury her is. if i knew i was going to be implicated in a crime, id know id want my two cents to be put in. where do you get the shovels? how long does it take to get where you plan to bury her? how long does it take to dig a hole, place her in it, fill the hole? how long does it take to get home or the next meeting place? how long does it take to make sure your alibis are entirely in line. even the simplest story would be difficult to make sure everyone understands and the more people you implicate, the tougher that is (and natalees parents have claimed more arrests...why implicate so many people?) what do you do with the clothing you were wearing (you would be dirty). forensic evidence is extremely difficult to cover up but even they'd know the obvious things to clean up either on the beach, car, themselves, etc. how long does that take? does this all fit into a timeline of 4 hours for joran to make it to school the very next day? (assuming she either OD/was murdered between 2-3?) it just doesnt add up, if u ask me.

[DeeDee]

"Columbian Necktie" .... Harry, you do have a flare for words. I think you are on key.

[jim]

Water is very shallow(2 to 3 feet)for some distance at the beach near the Marriot--ask any windsurfer. There is also even shallower "near" dry reef just past the sailing area. Anyone could pull a floating body through the area to deeper water. Offshore wind and current would do the rest. Boat and associated theories may not be necessary.
If Joran tried to establish an alibi that first evening/morning, he obviously knew she would be missing. End of search for at least one of the responsible. All others may only be players after the fact. Joran is likely the only one who will ever know what really happened. Hope his story gets close to the truth soon. If Kalpoes walk, we are out of players.

[sara]

moscow girl:

i'm not trying to sound mean to you, but I think we shouldn't judge NH's parents emotion, lack there of, or over reactions to any of this. only God knows what they are felling, and how they react shouldn't have any baring on the situation. they need their daughter back, and that is what counts.

please don't take that the wrong way.

[dori]

This "Columbian Necktie was discussed at an earlier date in another blog, and many agreed that this incident may have something to do with Natalee's disappearance.

What I am wondering is this:

Does PVDS think his wife may now be in danger, hence the boarded up windows. I wonder if someone may want to do this to her just to make sure they keep quiet?

Just a thought...

[Daisy]

Thanks Willo and KarlosFandango. I appreciate the info. I've been thinking. PvdS was in the Holiday Inn gambling with his son the night Natalee went missing. He left early and went home. He then picked his son up a McDonald's around 11pm. I think PvdS dropped his son off close to Carlos and Charlie, and they planned together for the son to pick up a girl to bring home to party with Daddy. After all, the wife was out of town. The other two men met the son at the bar for the party. They took Natalee to the Van Der Sloot home. At some point, Natalee realized she was in trouble. She tried to leave, but was stopped, raped and killed by all four of them. I think they took her to a wooded area, dug a deep hole, and put her in it. They know her body will not be found. I hope those cadaver dogs are as good as they say. I don't think she is in the water. The tides are all wrong for that.

[DeeDee]

I think Natalies mom is operating in total denial. It will allow one to operate as if things are normal because you are telling your brain they will be. Once she is faced with the reality that she may never see her daughter again then she will have weeks of this denial to deal with. The longer this goes on the "sicker" this mom is going to be when all is taken out from under her. I imagine she will have great difficulty leaving Aruba without Natalie and will never be the same. Her last interview with Heraldo she appeared haggard and weary. She has lost weight. I worry that when she collapses it will be devistation as she has maintained her posture by believing that she WAS going to bring Natalie home. Just my opinion.

[fokje]

I agree with you sara, you can't judge Natalee's parents behavior, though personally I disgust the behavior of Fox who's willingly accepting and following the personal needs of the mother, which is completely insolent if you ask me. However I could act the same if I was Natalee's mother, a tv-station shouldn't get along with that.

[sara]

deedee:

good point. she looks a lot different to me than when she arrived. i think she needs to act the way she is just to function and hold it together.