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Thursday, June 30, 2005

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The direction of the case needs to turn alright, right toward the polic...starting with Van Straaten! Then towards those who are assisting him by remaining silent as to the truth on the "inside". All along they have said they are making "significant progress" and yet now they admitt they have nothing.

I understand completely where the cover up fear comes from in some American minds... They live in a country where prominents like OJ can almost get caught red handed and still walk free. Where Robert Blake can murder his wife, and walk free. Where MJ can sleep with kids ans still walk free... The cover up fear says alot more about American society than about Aruba's.

Dan
Well said! The only point in assassinating Natalee's character and her friends is in order to take the spotlight off of themselves.

To the people of Aruba
It was stated that American's were still coming to Aruba and "partying like nothing had happened". Something did happen and we know it. Many of your visitors have planned vacations well in advance and it is too lake to re-schedule. Look for your tourism to fall off as people plan vacations have have a choice to visit somewhere else or your little island with no crime (or rather where crime goes unreported, uninvestigated, and unsolved). Beth says she will not leave withour Natalee. I hope the the rest of America will not come to visit without Natalee!

The Little "BTK" killer needs to go by example.
Tell us what happened to the girl Joran. BTK senior did , why not you.? Come on Joran..Just tell the truth. !!!!

Dolors,

Those were not covered up. All was brought out in the open and brought to trial. All the world knows the truth.

But what truth or ability to even find it is here in the case of "I left her at the beach"?

Hi All
Have been reading this forum (and the scared monkeys) for weeks now, without ever posting, feeling like others had already said what I would say, better than I could. But at this point I feel the need to add my 2 cents.

1)Dan, thankyou for your very well put "editorial" message to Aruba.

2)For all of you who resent and dislike America and Americans, and I will admit that you have had plenty of reason over the years, just understand one thing. One of our children have dissapeared in your country, a country which protrays itself as a warm friendly safe place for "getting away" from everyday life, and cutting loose a little. Now you may resent the power and determination that America possesses, but just understand this:

We do have the power, and we do have the determination, and by God, it is our duty that we use that to our fullest capability to get to the bottom of this, whether it suits you or not. Maybe, one day, if you are victimized in some strange place you will finally understand the terrible beauty of Natalee having the most powerful country in the world at her back.

This is an awesome statement Dan - "a rock and sand island we really could manage to do fine without, should a significant portion of our population so choose."
I think your entire statement is absolutely on target. You don't place blame. You want answers. You do your best to help to find those answers.
I, for one believe that you see both sides to every story and you have been more than fair covering both of those sides.
I thank you for allowing me to read what you write.

Something did happen and we know it. Many of your visitors have planned vacations well in advance and it is too lake to re-schedule
**They do have insurance in case they will cancel don't they? and if they don't that is not smart.

And because those were not covered up, it makes the US a perfect society, and Aruba's is one of incompetent covering up police officers where no one should vacation anymore?

Neo Colonial hypocrisme. That's what is going on!

Let the Arubans do their work and hopefully solve this case, and accept for 1 moment that the guilty might not be in jail right now. That something else happened to Natalee, and that THAT is why the boys in jail are not talking. Go ahead, threaten with boycotts, or don't visit Aruba. I would rather eat CACTUS than admit to the lie YOU are making. That Aruba is covering up this case.

Good morning bloggers:

FYI there is a new series of Shango posts starting at 1:49 AM today on Scared Monkeys...very distrubing...however the posts are very much in line with other comments on this blog yesterday regarding the much larger crime lord issues on Aruba beyond what the local government can deal with.

I believe the US State Department must issue a travel advisory for Aruba very soon i.e. the government there is no longer able to protect travelers from serious harm.

Dolores you are so correct in your statement. I am an American and I am very tired of seeing the justice system abused in our country. It has become a system where the criminal has more rights than the victim but two wrongs do not make a right! You cannot justify wrong doing by wrong doing. Corruption, money, power are just as much a part of American society but it does not go unchallenged in America, there in lies a big difference. The Arubians themselves need to take courage in standing up to corruption. Now they have the opportunity with the MSM overseeing the upcoming elections there.

but mary i am kinda tryin to understand ur conviction that joran still hasn't told all there was to be told.

u guys are sooooooooo typical, we have no evidence, not even circumstancial, but we are CONVINCED that "he did it" Did what?

Mary i think u should pray for a while, that might help ur condition

With a husband who is from Curacao married to an American that's me. He is totally appalled at how this case has been mishandled since the beginning. First off Joran's father did coach his son into what not to say as well as his friends. Because according to my husband the interrogation process is massive and violent at times, unless he received preferential treatment because he is the judge's son. It disgusts me to think that Natalie is out there somewhere and these 3 criminals are not saying where her parents can find her. The entire Netherlands should be ashamed of themselves for not coming over to the island and taking charge. As far as the Dutch's perception of Americans they hate us, we are spolied in there eyes. Not mention that they are obnoxious and rude. Aruba should not see another american dollar from any of us.

So much for the Happy Island with zero crime. I lived in Curacao and that is so not true. Crimes are not publized that's why it appears there's no crime.

Boycott give them the clear message. Find Natalie now ask The Netherlands to help. Obviously the Prime Minister has his head up his ass and so does Van Straten.

Two wrongs don't make a right, true. I am just asking people to be fair when they judge Aruba. ANd completely disregard that for years many many many people were safe and had fun in Aruba. 800000 people did not harm Natalee. This is a very sorry situation, and Arubans care deeply. For it's a human being who is much loved and we are sorry..very very sorry. But don't bash us.. crimes and injustice happens all over the world.

Dolores,

I believe only some are involved - many are not. But many are affected.

I wish an American boycott was the answer but I feel sure it isn't.People will still visit the island in great numbers and Natalee will be forgotten.They aren't suffering now and the investigation is wide open.Even Greta has said the hotels are filled and they have had to vacate rooms and find others because of the tourist.Remember the Tsunami? Tourist were there laying on the beach two days later and some even complained about the horrible service.No champagne in their rooms?It's the way of the world nowadays.No compassion or concern.It breaks my heart for Natalee's family.They will be left to live their lives not knowing anything about their daughter.They will be tortured with thoughts of all the possible scenario's that could have happened.She isn't even mine but I gotta tell ya.My mind has run to some pretty foul places when pondering the what if's....I can only imagine where their minds go....It is almost to the stage now of expecting the networks to go home and Natalee forever gone.I have lost hope that she will ever be found or justice will be served...:(

Harp -- you still don't get it. First of all, this is not about the police starting to look in another direction because they are stumped, this is about the Aruban press starting to smear Natalee, her family, and her friends as a diversionary tactic. The police have every good reason to focus on Joran Van der Sloot because he has told a series of lies, starting with the first moment that the police questioned him, long before he was arrested. Why would an innocent person need to tell so many lies? Clearly he (and possibly the Kalpoes) know what happened to Natalee, and there is no indication that the police are turning in another direction -- the prosecutor is requesting to keep Joran and the Kalpoes for 60 more days, so obviously she thinks they are guilty of something, and obviously they are still the focus of the police investigation. So the police are still very much focused on Joran; it is the Aruban press that is starting to look in another direction.

Vvsciii50 wrote:One of our children have dissapeared in your country, a country which protrays itself as a warm friendly safe place for "getting away" from everyday life, and cutting loose a little".
**I do understand that it is difficul for the family and friends of Natalee. But for the rest of you it is just the simpathy for one of yours lost, a simpathy that the media has created and it feeding every day.

Maybe, one day, if you are victimized in some strange place you will finally understand the terrible beauty of Natalee having the most powerful country in the world at her back.
**This has already happened, I have a family lost in a foreign country...but you are right we do not/did not have a powerfull country and media behind it to put pressure. But the pain is the same. By the way we never knew what happened to her.

I have watched everything regarding this case,and I beleive that Joran was involved in what happened to Natalee & his father helped him cover it up. After all the father's reputation is also at stake and no one knows what his son told him regarding that night yet no parent should protect their child when a crime has been commited.No American should consider stepping foot on this island until the truth comes out on what happened to Natalee.

ARUBA !!!! Botched the damn case from the beginning. Proof from the Justice man in charge. "QUOTE" I cannot lock that boy up...his father is my best friend. !
No taking of clothes worn that night. No searchng of his room. No searching of computers. No searching of the car they were in.
Ha...and they were doing their job. ??? A nice job of cover up.!!! All potential evidence lost.
They wasted no damn time locking up the two security jobs and searching and taking their stuff in to look at. Why, well they were not the Justice mans best friend. Now go ponder that one.
Wanted to follow them. Did it for a reason. Yeah right. !!! Sure ...tell that to a fool.

I agree with Caribbean that PVS's mentioning of a body is very incriminating. It indicates that he knew there was a body to be concerned about.

He should be hauled in again and further questioned on the basis of that suspicious statement.

If the Aruban police truly want to investigate the victim, what's stoping them? NH's parents and stepparents are right there in Aruba.

Have the Aruban police even asked to question NH's friends in the US? Of course not. They have no interest in doing so. A smear campaign is much more effective.

Delores the majority of Americans are sensible enough to know that the average Arubian is not guilty of this crime. It is obviously those in government who have the power. It is a shame that the majority of those in power are not Arubian. It is a shame that the Netherlands are not more involved and concerned for the sake of all Arubians. IT is very obvious to America that the suspects in custody are not Arubians either! The corruption is not with the island people it is with the politicians as usual.

To izzy: I do know that Joran is still the head suspect, I'm only saying they are looking into other possibily. (note I do not try to defend Joran, I think if he is guilty he will have to pay. But we will to consider he is not and only afraid to speak, but than is my question why?)

My opinion again remains the same. We have this tendecy to criticize a whole Island that has the lowest crime rate when we have the higuest crime rate and the craziest murderers in USA => Timothy Mc Veigh, Charles Manson . In USA, every week there are people missing and we discover them chopped in bags ... The most sordids murders are commited in USA. Lets not criticize other countries. Plus we have a corrupt government that lies to us , where are the Nuclear Weapons?

Lets Focus on the real Affair which is Natalee Holloway ...

Janice:

You are right on! There are I am sure a lot of very nice people in Aruba...many have posted on this blog and others. However, they must wake up all realize their government has lost it ability to provide safety to them or travelers.

EV,

is't ur statement

"As far as the Dutch's perception of Americans they hate us, we are spolied in there eyes. Not mention that they are obnoxious and rude. Aruba should not see another american dollar from any of us."

a tad bit paradoxical? Didn't u say ur hubby is from Curacao? why the blanket STEREOTYPE. The nerve of some people.

Frank, FYI NH friends and chaperones all left on the flight as it was scheduled dor them to leave. The questioning of her friends is taken care of by US police. In fact, I found it very strange that everybody just took the plane and left. But, they are not to be blamed! Neither is Natalee. I do believe though that investigating Natalee's manner and behavior could lead up to some more interesting tracks for the police. She is a victim though, and never to be blaimed. And the Aruban press asking questions about her thet shouldn't be? Write it off under : all the false statements that have been made by America's media about Aruba. Write it off under CNN's breaking news weeks ago about one of the boys commiting to a murder and having us all hooked to the tv screen for hours.

We should judge eachother fairly. Without threats, and not with the knives on the table.

Dan did not blame the people he was just saying a more thorough job should be done as this could affect the countries good reputation. The people have been wonderful and and helpful. But now it is up to the police and government officials to do more.

Harp, so sorry for you pain thru this ...again. Are you related to Amy Bradley?

@DeeDee

Keep in mind that the Dutch government is not to blame either.

Aruba enjoys a seperate status, where they are able to deal with most political issues themself.

In fact they want Dutch interferance be held to a minimum and they only knock on our door when there is a serious problem (in other words, when they need more money).

I was very surprised they decided to call in the help of Dutch minister of Justice, Piet Hein Donner.

Mary wrote: No taking of clothes worn that night. No searchng of his room. No searching of computers. No searching of the car they were in.
**If you want to put comment on the case PLEASE follow the case close, because this had happened. See fox.com and the interview with the mother of the 2 brother and the mother of Joran.

In fact they want Dutch interferance be held to a minimum and they only knock on our door when there is a serious problem (in other words, when they need more money).

**This is not true. We depent more on the american tourist, franchise and hotel then of Holland. And the little ontwikkelings hulp we receive it a loan that have to be paid back with interest. And it to be ended in 2007 or 2008 if I'm not mistaken.

harp -- thanks for the clarification. Again, this is about the ARUBAN MEDIA, not the police, who certainly should continue to follow whatever leads they have. Why does the Aruban media feel the need to start raising questions about Natalee's character, her family, and her friends at this stage of the game when the police have three suspects in custody who were the last people seen with Natalee and who have been telling a series of lies? Why trot out rumors (so far unsubstantiated) that Natalee's parents had a $2 million life insurance policy on her? What does that accomplish? With all that her parents are going through now, does anybody really think they had her killed or kidnapped so that they could collect on some insurance policy?

Fox news just did an interview with a spokesperson from Aruba. They said they had all the phone records,computer records and some of the phone records were actual conversations. I guess they mean text messages. Who knows. Interview with the mystery man from last night on Greta's show coming up.
Also it was said that most everyone feels as if the father knows more than he is telling.
But..I think we all knew that.

Dolores one of the chaperons did stay behind until the family arrived at midnight on the same day. One of the men chaperons did say behind and started notifying the police, etc..during that time frame.

In the nataleeholloway.net its mentionned that Natalee has been chatting with Joran over a year on the internet? If that is true why didn't they confiscate Natalee's computer to look for information?

Im sure there are also evidence that can be found in her home in Alabama.

@Harp

Ok, thx for clarifying. I was not aware of that!

ravage she officially talked to joran that night only. he hung around their group for a couple days stalking- which is not a crime. or should i say slittering into a group for prey

Nothing was done on the 2 boys and Joran until 10 days later. 10 days to wash down the car, wash the clothes are trash them, clean the computer up.
All solid evidence was lost. Thats too bad.!!!

Dan,

I'd say turn about is fair play? Aren't the laws of Karma in action here? You scream UNFAIR when it comes to questions about precious angelic innocent Natalee but have posted here and allowed to be posted here many things that have slammed the Van der Sloot family and the island of Aruba. I've read death wishes, boycotts, you name it, all aimed at Aruba, the police, and the Van der Sloots.

Might I remind you that in the United States the boys would not be in prison? They'd be set free after 48 hours.

There is no evidence that a crime has been committed, there is no crime scene, there is NOTHING but a missing teenage girl who may or may not be missing of her own accord.

I find it fitting that the media is now bored with trashing Aruba and the Van der Sloots, cheered on by yourself and your members here; they have turned their steely eyes on the only rocks that have not been overturned.

I say turn about is fair play. They slaughtered the van der sloots without compunction and you (you as the collective you) cheered, they trashed the island and people of Aruba, and you cheered. Now it's Natalee's turn. If there is nothing to find, and if she is indeed an angelic, innocent then there will be nothing to print. I doubt that is the case, and in time we will see how much like Joran and the rest of the world's teens she really was.

Your biased warning to the media to leave Natalee "alone" is misplaced. The runaway bride incident should have taught you that. All the media insisted she was dead. They searched for her body. Her fiance was hours away from being arrested for her murder. She is not the only one. After reporting with such great care and concern on her death, the media turned on her when she dared to prove them wrong and showed up: alive.

The island is being searched not to pacify Natalee's mother who knew her better than anyone could and does not appear to believe her daughter is dead. The island is being searched to prove to the media that her body is not to be found. Could it be, if they do not find her body, that Natalee is not dead? How far will this charade be carried?

Shame on you Dan for your "warning" article after what I've seen here and in the other media (including your minions calling for the arrest of Ms. VDS..and some whacko misfit posting as Professor begging other women Joran has raped to come forward...) you all deserve what you get. What you do comes back to you x3.

Your claims of fairness and non bias are illusory. You do tread daintily but your meaning and bias are clear. (Being non biased would have been posting both sides.) Your tawdry mention of Joran having a poster of Paris Hilton in his room was disgusting. What type of women adorned YOUR walls when you were a teen??? Farah Fawcett?

Have at it Aruba, we deserve it.

PT
>>Regardless of what happened the night the VDS son and the Holloway daughter left together, due to their attraction of some kind, I feel the VDS and the Holloway's both very devoted parents. I am sad for all of them having the worst kind of nightmares parents could possible have.<<

The point is that only one of them was ever seen again. Asking for just why that is cannot be deemed unreasonable for a living, breathing much-loved daughter is involved. You have no proof that she intended anything other than to return to the HI as she had just stated to her friends and this so-called attraction is just that, your opinion and not based on any facts. She could have just as well thought she was getting into a taxi or the short ride would end at the front door of the Holiday Inn just as Joren lied and said it did.

At the least, he is guilty of lying, accusing the innocent and obfuscating the investigation into her whereabouts. That is not the behavior of an "innocent" party and I find it incredible that you and others seem to think her family and friends are not entitled to even know what happened to her.

Note that the Chief Law Enforcement Officer stated publically that he did not know how he could arrest his best friend's son, is reportedly Joren's Godfather and is said to be retiring and returning to Holland in a couple of weeks. I think the people of Aruba should be directing their ire at those who refused to investigate this and thus damaged their reputation, not at the victim.

Adding insult to injury is not going to go over well with many Americans who would have otherwise been understanding. We don't play the Blame the Victim game well and I find it very informative and revealing to see the contempt for all Americans many Arubans are exhibiting instead of reactions of sympathy one would normally expect. It is good to know how we would be treated in a similar situation and that instead of an investigation would be given a cover-up and our reputation and that of our family and friends smeared by the Arubans. This is not what I expected, I expected more and better from them. I have been very disappointed in their anti-American attitude and the fact they are so eager to try to ruin the reputation of the victim to protect their own.

New question!

Why did Natalee's classmates pack her things?

Is this something they aggreed on?

Because bij packing her belongings, they might have destroye valuable evidence.

Harp -- about the police taking the clothes Joran was wearing the night Natalee disappeared, searching his room, taking his computer, and confiscating/searching the car...yes, perhaps the police have done this, but they waited over a week to do it, giving the suspects plenty of time to hide evidence, clean up, and lock into a mutual cover story. The fact that they waited so long practically dooms the investigation unless Natalee is found.

Arubans,

I don't trust you.

Most Americans are too nice to say that - so I've said it.

DeeDee wrote: Harp, so sorry for you pain thru this ...again. Are you related to Amy Bradley?

**Thanks. No, I was talking about a Arubian women, who was working for a airway, who was missing a few years back, family of my.

POSTED!!!!! **If you want to put comment on the case , DO IT. I DID. HARP????

ARUBA !!!! Botched the damn case from the beginning. Proof from the Justice man in charge. "QUOTE" I cannot lock that boy up...his father is my best friend. !
No taking of clothes worn that night. No searchng of his room. No searching of computers. No searching of the car they were in.
Ha...and they were doing their job. ??? A nice job of cover up.!!! All potential evidence lost.
They wasted no damn time locking up the two security jobs and searching and taking their stuff in to look at. Why, well they were not the Justice mans best friend. Now go ponder that one.
Wanted to follow them. Did it for a reason. Yeah right. !!! Sure ...tell that to a fool.

Flying Dutchman -- not an established fact that Natalee's roommates packed her belongings. I have also heard that she was worried about getting to the airport on time and had packed up her belongings before going out for the night. Seems to me that her mother confirmed this when she showed Greta Van Susteren Natalie's packed bags and belongings.

Deedee, I was just answering to a post where somebody stated that the Aruban officials where not interested in asking NH's friends questions. So yes, the 2 of the group stayed behind and where askes questions. Since they are not to blame, the Aruban police is not to blame that they did not interogate them. They are back at home, suffering and hoping. And I think that goes for alot of us, affected by this terrible situation.

While I can say, yes mistakes have been made by police and local authorities, I don't believe those mistakes come from the will to cover up. Let's be fair, if Aruba wanted to cover up, why did they open their doors to media all over the world? They do need a working permit, you know. They could have not been permitted to broadcast from Aruba. The FBI was allowed to help from day 1.

The strange course in investigation in Aruba comes from disbelieve. Not one girl has gone missing like this before. And everybody hoped at first I think that she would show up, Scared because she had missed her flight, and so forth. But the Aruban autorities were looking for her from day one, given all their support to Natalee's family, let all media in. The only thing they have not done is given us inside information about the ongoing investigation. And that is normal under dutch law. Only to receive the thanks from the world, that our country is a corrupt stone in sand.

BOYCOTT ARUBA..............

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