This post is informed speculation based upon what I know from published reports supplemented with some leg work. For new blog readers, a blog is not a newspaper and one is as free to ruminate as they are to report only facts in another post. The ultimate value of a large connected blogging community is that one blog or individual may pick up a thread of thought from another, improve or refine it, and see where it leads from there, if anywhere.
That said, reader CG sent me a troubling image a day or two ago that stuck in my mind - suggesting perhaps something was being missed. That may be so as regards public discussion. Keep in mind that the Dutch system of Justice does not allow for evidence, or even threads of investigation to be shared with the public.
Americans, including me, feel frustrated by a Dutch legal system less transparent than ours by design - but that does not mean it isn't working. Under Dutch law, were they to be sharing information with the public in the manner to which Americans are accustomed, the case could easily be thrown out at trial; such public sharing of information is considered a serious violation of a defendant's rights within the Dutch system.
It could be disturbing if you are a reader who prefers to not read anything unpleasant as regards what might have happened to Natalee Holloway. I am warning you to not read on if that's the case.
These first images are from a report, widely circulated, of items turned up in a search of the Colony area on June 6. One of the images has been turned
upside down to make the label on the bottle more visible; though individuals by and large already know what it is the bottle may likely contain - Lysol.
Also found at that location was a piece of foam reported to have indentations one could interpret to be the impressions of human teeth and the item in the picture on left - a security guard shirt with the initials VGB. Note that the AP reported this as a tee-shirt. Also of note is that the search was scaled back the very next day.
We know that the Allegro Hotel employed a security firm to patrol their renovation site and that the two security guards arrested and now released were terminated because the contract ended right before the Natalee Holloway disappearance.
I talked to someone in Aruba about the security service shirt last night and was informed that it seemed to be "simply thrown away." Certainly there have been other items which we haven't been told about found during this search. That would make sense in light of a potential criminal prosecution in the near future. The report appeared in on line publication Aruba Today and June archives are not yet available. A jpg image of the full report is here.
.By joining factors above with confusing reports on the nature of Joran Van der Sloot during what seems an unending investigation, you might be able to paint several different pictures of events that night. I am suggesting only one possibility and not offering what I feel for certain will be the final explanation. It is simply too early to tell.
Suppose parts of the boys stories are true. Along with a bit of drinking, Natalee either takes a drug like ecstasy, or it's slipped into her drink. There was a case in Atlantic City some years back where a local bartender went on for years slipping drugs to girls in their drinks, only to take advantage of them later. Most of those cases went unreported. It would be interesting to know if other female tourists visiting Aruba have experienced this, assuming it has been reported.
Natalee could have found herself at the lighthouse, or elsewhere, with one, or three boys with alcohol and a drug in her system leading to some type of overdose. Lose of body control, tremors or near convulsions are all symptoms associated with many drug and alcohol induced overdoses.
In one theoretical stream of events the boy or boys panic, call someone for assistance and advice. This assumes that they thought it was fine to drug a tourist to take advantage of them, but never intended to kill anyone. Or that Natalee found herself in this condition having voluntarily taken anything consumed
My interest in the two Croes pictures was this - the small picture is taken from an earlier link to a book review by a not very articulate steve croes - the book was for EMT training. Who would you call if a woman went under from an accidental or illegal drug over dose? However, it seems to be another steve croes altogether and that fact can be incorporated into this speculative report.
Imagine a boy, or boys making a call and being told to put something in the girls mouth to prevent her from biting or swallowing her tongue. That's not unreasonable advice someone might give another, or a step an individual chooses to take on his own given common thinking. One tragic result that has occurred from this in the past is that the unprofessional can actually place something, a bit of foam, for example, in the mouth which results in the person drowning on their own vomit - should it occur - or simply suffocating.
My mind goes to the possibility of vomiting as a result of fluids found in the car that were not blood and have now fallen into the black hole of information represented by the Dutch justice system - which I am not judging here, by the way. So, what starts out as either playful partying, or the crime of drugging to take advantage turns into, in effect, a murder.
If the boys washed their hands of this at this time - say by driving back toward town and making an arrangement with another party to dispose of the body - it could explain why they are not "breaking." They might actually not have been in the loop as far as a potential concealing of the body goes. It would be a sequence of events difficult to follow through the establishment of evidence, or interrogation.
Remember when there was a confession and Natalee was said to be dead? The authorities might have known what happened up to here, but as they could not complete the second part of the puzzle, what happened to Natalee, there would be good reason for them not wanting that, or anything disclosed. Keep in mind, if that were the case, any defendant might walk at trial, hurting Aruba's image even more.
By design, we don't know what type of investigation has been going on behind the scenes; what some evidence might mean; or what other suspects the boys may have mentioned and how the investigation was going forward. Enter the alibi.
The AP's T-shirt wasn't a T-shirt but a seemingly casually discarded security guard shirt left near some other curious evidence already mentioned. And we're to believe that this means nothing? The boys told police they saw the girl approached by two security guards. A security guard shirt just happened to be left at a curious and later discovered scene. Later, two basically unsophisticated men were arrested and we were on our way to resolution of a terrible crime. But something went wrong.
The security company's contract had expired with the Allegro Hotel just one day before the night of Natalee's disappearance. The guards, who someone might have reasonably assumed would be present near the Holiday Inn that night were not: they had solid alibis.
In the green room at Fox last night I was discussing the known facts and some conjectures with NYPD Detective Gil Alba. He agreed that it would take some intelligence and sophistication to map this all out. I agree. So far everyone eventually held in this case was first questioned as a witness. Last night the elder Van der Sloot was brought in and spent four hours with authorities being questioned as a possible witness. What that might mean, I don't know.
Unfortunately, one also needs to account for the body, assuming there is or was one. As for disposal of a body - there is a terrible possibility. Googling around I found the site of a tourist who put up and captioned some pictures from a trip to Aruba.
At the northernmost tip is the California lighthouse (seen later from boat). Then we started down the rougher, eastern (Atlantic) side. They told us they feed the sharks on this side daily, to keep them away from the tourist side. I don't know if that's true, but the ocean was so rough you wouldn't have wanted to swim here anyway. The whole east half of the island looks a lot like this.
On Fox TV last night they were discussing the islands waters with a boat captain and apparently the other side of the island is well known to have sharks. This doesn't appear an item that Aruba is too anxious to promote.
He dismissed rumors that police may investigate coastal waters on the north side of the island known to have sharks. "Sure, we have shark places on the northern side, but they have nothing to do with the investigation," he said.
I asked a reader from Aruba about the matter, already knowing that the island once contained a slaughterhouse I believe is closed:
One other comment...all Arubans know that Boca Mahos is where the sharks have always been fed...for over 60 years the edible waste has been dumped there at specific times to let the sharks dispose of butcher shop offal, etc.
Anyone who had deliberately tried to dispose of a body would have backed up to the edge of Boca Mahos and thrown it there...and the FBI divers were not about to go diving in Boca Mahos to look for bones in the turbulent seas.
...just toss the body into the waters of Boca Mahos and that would be the end of it. All of my friends had the same response: Boca Mahos.
As for this post - it's just one theory.
Florida Girl - Yes Natalee has siblings. A half brother - 20 years old and a brother - 16 years old.
Posted by: Crystal | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:41 PM
Check out this link: http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/natalee_hollowa_17.html
Wierd, I don't think it's Dan's because I cannot find in his posts.
I was surfing the web for this site and found this. It's obviously untrue. Could someone be posing as Dan's website? Any techies out there that know?
Posted by: Freakerita | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:41 PM
If she does end up alive, just imagine the story she will tell. She would be on every talk show there is. I hope it actually ends up that way, for the sake of her not being murdered. But it's hard to imagine she is still alive. It drives you crazy thinking about what could of happened. I need to stop reading these blogs....
Posted by: DN | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:42 PM
I followed the link to the scared monkeys report with the interview by natalee's classmate. Something she said was interesting and caught my attention. She mentioned that the reason they all went to Carlos and Charlies in the first place was because they were told by their tour bus driver that it was a great place for tourists to go. Why is the bus driver plugging carlos and charlie's so much, and has anyone checked out this bus driver person? The other thing I wanted to mention is the fact that if you go to this site http://elektron.et.tudelft.nl/%7Eryan/ check out some of the photos. One of the posters yesterday said that sometimes "gang signs" made by young people are really not gang signs but some other form of communicating. By and large most of the photos look fairly typical, partying etc. The one thing which is evident in almost all of them is the hand gestures. There are only guys who do the hand gestures in the pictures. I don't know if this means anything or not.
Posted by: sassy | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:45 PM
Freakerita, that was posted Saturday, June 11, 2005 when reports where coming out that she was dead and they were leading them to her body over a week ago....
Posted by: DN | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:46 PM
If she were dead, I honestly believe that her body would have been found by now. There are too many involved, including the community and tourists.
I also think someone would have now spoken up by now if she were dead. Instead others are being questioned that are supposedly connected to the case. But then again, we have heard that the police were being taken to the location of her body.
If she is not alive then her body is not in Aruba...someplace else.
My opinion and thoughts.
Posted by: Allison | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:47 PM
DN,
Thanks, I missed the date.
Posted by: freakerita | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:47 PM
Sassy, it is not a gang sign it is a sex signal.
Posted by: Island Hopper | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:47 PM
I agree, this whole thing smells of a cover up due to the status of the kids involved. If the media wouldn't have gotten involved I don't think the three young men would have EVER been held. If this goes unsolved and we find that the Dutch blocked the more competent FBI from taking charge, I feel that the US should boycot this island from tourism.
It is pure incompetence to let the three kids who were last seen with her, drover her away from the club, and supposively out all night with her go without intensive questioning immediately to see if there are holes in the story. They should have immediately been separated and looked for holes in the stories. With the amount of time they had anyone can corroborate and be much harder to get the truth from, not to mention give them time to cover up evidence and disspose of the body.
It also bothers me that 24 hours after her disapperance Natalee's mother confronts JVDS and he is "arrogant" and "condesending" towards her. Is it me or would a innocent person have sympathy and concern instead of returning from a night of gambling according to his father... kinda reminds me of OJ looking for the real killers on his tour of all the golf courses of the US.
This whole thing makes me sick and Aruba should feel the weight of the world on their shoulders because the EYES of the world are watching this case closely.
Geraldo was quoted as hearing that early on in the case when JVDS was the prime suspect the DA said "how can I do this to my best friend's son"
This just makes me sick.... I hope the FBI is finding out what really happened because we need a 3rd party that has no bias in this case.
Posted by: Kevin | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:47 PM
To All: I established a new post above this one as a general discussion forum if you wish to use it. It may open faster as it has no real post and I can keep it at the top of the page.
However, you're free to continue to discuss in any of the available threads if you choose. Just keep those chats polite and "non-private" cuz I can see you. : )
Posted by: Dan Riehl | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:49 PM
Yes, but they claimed to have dropped her off at 2: 00 am. What did they do for 4.5 hours before the call at 6:30 am to the paramedic. 4.5 hours on a dark beach where the shirt and lysol bottle were found. Did they "clean up" within that period, dump the bottle there and then call the paramedic. Did they drive around or hang around elsewhere for 4.5 hours and when she didn't wake up then call the paramedic at 6:30 am. Got instructions to then clean up and dump the lysol bottle. Dawn has long broken at that time.
4.5 hours is a very long time, more so in the morning, even more so if you have a comotose body on your hands. If the Indians dropped him and her off at that beach at that hour, what in the world was he doing for 4.5 hours until that call.
That call was about something else, not about how to revive her.
Posted by: Marigot Bay | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:52 PM
I agree. If something bad did happen (all of this is bad, I think you know what I mean) then they obviously went to the experts for help. Why would they leave a Lysol bottle so visible. I think they would have for sure left no evidence....
Posted by: Allison | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:57 PM
My deepest thoughts tell me the elder van der Sloot is involved more than we imagine. Even if Jaron is in the habit of picking up girls at the casino & taking them to the 'lover's lane' beach, this time it probably resulted in either an overdose of something (accidental) or Jaron lost his temper when Natalee resisted his advances. The worst happened. Jaron ran home to Noord to awaken his father - for help. Together they took something large to put Natalee's body in at the beach (it's still dark out); then Jaron calls on Steve to ask to use the boat (to fish perhaps)? But he & his dad use it to take a weighted trunk out to sea, to protect their own skins. Awful..
Posted by: Barbara | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 02:59 PM
Are you guys sure that the Steve Croes that has the EMT book on his website is the same Steve Croes that is arrested? Because there IS an EMT Steve Croes with the same name, but not with the same birthday and does not look at all like the picture.
The EMT Steve Croes is a volunteer at Red Cross and is being teased mercilessly, but he is not the the guy that they arrested.
Posted by: arubagirl | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:00 PM
Sharks generally don't eat human beings. They'll certainly eat chum which consists of pieces of meat and blood. Which makes sense from the abortoir's usage.
If she's dead and they threw her to the sharks, doubtful they'd eat her. If she's dead and they cut her up and threw her to the sharks, dead people don't bleedm, doubtful they'd eat her.
If she's dead and floating in the water, sharks simply don't just pounce and eat anything floating or even sinking like that.
If they threw her in alive and she's flailing around, that's another story.
But don't think the sharks feature in this at all.
Posted by: Marigot Bay | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:02 PM
I have an 18 yr old daughter and after reading all the different explanations for the hand signals, etc.. I asked her about it, having seen pics of her and her friends doing the very same thing. She said that in GA (not sure if everywhere) it means "deuces" in otherwords, "whats up". She also said that many sleepovers she has attended, people find it amusing to place beer bottles or liquor bottles by a sleeping (not necessarily a passed out person) and take pics of it. Remember we are dealing with teenagers, they find most stuff amusing. I have seen many websites, xangas, blogs, etc of many HS kids and they do and say the same stuff. In America and it seems everywhere the "gangsta" thing is just a fad. All teenage boys call themselves pimps and playas. Probably taken from the type of music they listen to today and MTV... I work at a HS and its racially diverse, but it doesnt seem to matter whether you are black, white, yellow or green... its a universal thing for teens. I am not defending JVDS, just saying the sites, pics, etc.. all looked like a very "normal teenage boy" to me.
Posted by: ATLjoie | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:03 PM
ATL -
I also have two daughters (20&12)....and your absolutely correct about the hand signals. I'm in FLorida, and I too asked my daughter (the 12 year old), because I have seen kids at her school doing that, and she said it is more of a "what's up" type of gesture. Not related at all to "gangsta" or anything like that, even though when I see them do it, they do have that head thing going and bounce in the body... lol
I'm moving the Main Discussion Board that Dan has set up.
Posted by: Florida Girl | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:11 PM
Freakerita
Look at the date, I believe this was when someone released the info that she was dead and someone had confessed. Both were retracted later.
Posted by: Canadian Girl | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:12 PM
Video coming on FOX of VDS parents leaving from back door of polis after questioning moments ago. Reported by Julie Banderas
Posted by: AkekoaHoAlethia | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:12 PM
For those interested:
Dan has set up a main discussion blog for Natalee, if you care to move to it. It is hard to keep bounding back and forth between discussions, so at the request of others, he has made this available....
FYI
Posted by: Florida Girl | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:13 PM
I never heard that the detained security guards denied that they wore black shirts.
The original story the boys told was that the security guard they saw as they left NH had on black shirt / uniform. The discrepancy in the color of uniform was between the uniform color of the security guard they said they saw and the uniform worn by the Security staff of Holiday Inn.
Posted by: chelsblu | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:17 PM
I wouldn't try to connect the EMT book to an instruction to put foam in the girl's mouth to keep her from biting her tongue. In EMT classes you are instructed to NEVER do that.
Posted by: Me | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:17 PM
Hey guys! Newbie here. been lurking for a couple of days, VERY interesting stuff. Thought I would give my 2 cents. Patrick- Yes, fingerprints would be evident,ie: natural oils in skin can survive harsh enviroments, unless of course they were wiped. Incidently that type of lysol contains Bleach which will destroy any trace of biological evidence including DNA.
Posted by: lebtechnokla | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:25 PM
I'm in Mountain Brook and from the people who have recently returned from Aruba is that Van der Sloot's dad was seen at a McDonald's at 3 a.m. the night Natalee disappeared.
I don't think this has been reported in the mainstream media so hopefully this will help those of of you who are following this closely. This is my first post here and I'm posting something I think all of you might find significant.
Natalee goes missing at about 1 to 1:30 a.m. and the Van der Sloot's dad is seen at a McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. There to me it is very suspicious.......
Posted by: samthebam | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:35 PM
McDonald's closes here at 1am. FYI
Posted by: arubagirl | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:45 PM
Marigot Bay: I was waiting for someone to clarify this. Yes indeed sharks get primarily attracted by blood.
The can smell it even if they are quite a distance away. People are speculating without even bothering to do some elementary research.
The fact that there is no body opens possibilities of all sort of scenarios. It might be that the case will have a very surprising end.
Concerning who is guilty of wrongdoing, this is wide open. It could be all of them including some seniors, like Joran's father. I am sure they have more evidence. There were hearings before a judge to prolong the detainment. This cannot be based solely on the fact that the their statements were contradictory.
Posted by: Ari | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:47 PM
Maybe when the three were let go the first time, the authorities watched their every move --so, maybe if they tried to clean up someone saw what they were doing and that is part of the evidence.
About the Lysol--if it's even connected to this case, I'd assume it was used to mask a bad odor or to sanitize something--wouldn't you think so?
Posted by: junie | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 03:51 PM
Your theory about the events that night is very similar to my own -- but you do, of course, have more first-hand details. I think it's the most likely explanation -- and FAR more likely than her being 'sold' for some kind of gambling debt. People who traffic in human beings do not want the kind of trouble that 'purchasing' a wealthy American teen would inevitably cause. They prefer to trade in young women from South America or the Third World. No pesky families to look for them.
And I vowed to quit watching Fox News this week after they TWICE put that repulsive Dee Fine on their show. That disgusting woman is using this tragedy purely to boost rating for her goofy radio show. She should be ashamed of herself.
Posted by: BhamRes | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:00 PM
It looks like a perfect place to dispose of a body.. :(
Posted by: Kelli | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:02 PM
I've spoken to a resident of Aruba who states that they have not fed sharks from the slaughterhouse for many years. It is now prohibited to deliberately feed sharks anywhere in Aruba because the government is worried that the sharks will eventually make their way to the western tourist beaches. This resident has been quoted by Dan at this blog on other matters, so he or she is obviously considered a fairly reliable source.
Posted by: Kath | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:11 PM
Arubagirl, thanks for the info. I'm just repeating what I've heard in the hopes that the people here will find it helpful. Since McDonald's closes at 1 am, myabe he was at another fast food joint at 3 a.m. and maybe he was at McDonald's even though it was closed. I don't know. But this info was given to me by a family member and FWIW, the fact that father was out that late is why he is not being allowed to see his son in prison. His behavior that night is considered to be very suspicious.
Posted by: samthebam | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:15 PM
sam -
What is FWIW?
Posted by: Florida Girl | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:17 PM
Florida Girl, it means "for what it's worth".
Posted by: samthebam | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:20 PM
thanks....i thought is was initials for some resource you got this info from... lol
sorry, i wasn't even thinking net lingo!
Posted by: Florida Girl | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:24 PM
I have been following this story since the day I first read about it on diario.com and within a day or two after that I discovered the two blogs that have mainly covered this most unfortunate ‘event’. I have not posted any comments and do not intend to. In am being troubled about the role that Joran’s father is playing in all of this and a piece of information that I have that has not been displayed so far (maybe I have not searched well enough, though I have been following closely). I was under the impression that it was common knowledge, but so far it has not come up on any of the sites. With the investigation now focussing more on Paul v/d Sloot, this information may be relevant.
I do not intend to point any fingers or acuse anyone, nevertheless for the sake of what is going on I will provide this information: Paul v/der Sloot failed a substancial part of his exams in the judge-in-training program (RAIO-opleiding in Dutch) . He was actually kicked out of the program the beginning of this year and cannot return, hence not become a full fledged judge. Considering his position and his career in the Dutch/Aruban justice system so far, this should have had a great impact on him. Although I truly hope that Paul is not involved and that Natalee will show up alive, it must be said that he was already in a ‘difficult’ position before his son being involved in this situation.
I hope someone picks up on this. I apologize for the anonimity.
Posted by: anonymous_OM | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:32 PM
anonymousOM, I've heard the exact same thing.
Posted by: arubagirl | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:40 PM
I really can't beleive that police continue searching places where the suspects say they went with her. I she were there in the lightohouse or beach near marriot, none of the supsects would have mentioned these places. I figure that since they have already been caught lying, then the girls body is logically somewhere they haven't mentioned, possible another beach, near Carlos and Charlies or the desert area at the east side of the island. Like in Las Vegas...deseerts are highly used to dispose of bodies, bury them and such. And the police have not even searched these parts. They need to search the entire island left and right on land then move to the sea, caves and other parts, they're so stupid!!!!!!!
Posted by: maria | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:42 PM
There is only one rest. in that area that is open at that time. That's El Patio, and it's not really a fast food (like Wendy's or Burger King etc.), more like a diner.
Posted by: arubagirl | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:42 PM
What was the reasons for his failure in the judge-in-training program? Interesting point Does he hold any position in the judiciary at this time?
Posted by: moey | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:43 PM
Arubagirl, I am happy you picked up on this since you have been very active (with a small 'pauze' in between) on the blogs. Although I do not know the exact reason for him not staying in the program, most likely his failure is that he did not pass some of the very demanding exams that are part of the RAIO. He still works for the Gov't and assists the current judges in common preparatory work.
I will leave my comments upto here. Thanks for picking up.
Posted by: anonimousOM | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:53 PM
The gang sign referred to as "Dueces" has its roots in American pop culture.
"Deuces" comes from the novel "Crips" and subsequent movie that was made called "South Central" dealing with Black gang violence ... (1992) starring Glenn Plummer.
Deuces was the name of the gang in the film and also the the name of the gang's hand signal ... a distinctive split finger gesture that implies "two".
As a result ... Every wannabee gang-banger in the world adopts "Deuces" as a generic gesture to imply a gangsta attitude. (The movie is very popular in the Netherlands.)
A generic gesture is "safer" to use. In the United States, people have been killed for flashing a gang sign belonging to a gang they are not members of ... or killed for flashing a real gang sign in a rival's territory.
"Dueces" is also referenced in the video game "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" and spoofed in regard to "wannabees" in the movie "Don't Be a Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood".
Bobby: Listen up man, I'm O.G. Bobby Johnson.
Young Boy: You're killer Bobby Johnson?
Posted by: Unknown | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:55 PM
Arubagirl, it sounds like you doubt me. While the "where" of my post may be wrong, I am very confident that the dad was out at 3 a.m. and that the authorities are extremely suspicious.
Hint: the person who told me this has the last name of Twitty.
Posted by: samthebam | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 05:08 PM
samthebam: I read somewhere that the dad was out playing poker. Do you hear that he was in fact doing something else?
Any more news about hte body in the cemetary?
Posted by: moey | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 05:21 PM
I am sorry but Joran's father being out at 3a.m. well - I don't know it appears that Aruba seems to have a 24/7 lifestyle and Paul Van der sloot was said to often be in the clubs drinking and partying , gambling - so this might just be normal behavior for him - also it was said he was at McDonalds and most people say they close at 1a.m.
Posted by: Jan | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 05:22 PM
samthebam: McD's doesn't need to be open to use a pay phone or dumpster.
Posted by: maggie | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 05:27 PM
Well don't you think if something incriminating were put in any dumpsters on that island that something would have turned up?? Who uses payphones anymore - don't they use cell phones in Aruba?
Posted by: Jan | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 05:29 PM
Moey, Jan, the point I'm trying to get across is this: he was seen somewhere - I heard McDonalds - at 3 a.m. , the authorities are so suspicious that they won't allow him to see Joran in jail.
Posted by: samthebam | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 05:29 PM
The trash is dumped off the south end of the island. People who don't want cell phone calls on their records use pay phones.
Posted by: summer | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 05:40 PM
I know of some McDonald's that are closed all night, but the drive through is open.....perhaps?
Posted by: dori | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 05:45 PM
Just because he was seen at a McDonalds, doesn't mean he was inside. He could have been seen outside in the parking lot. Some have payphones outside...perhaps he was using a phone? Just a thought.
Posted by: Kath | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 05:49 PM