A Change In Mood

Something happened this evening in Aruba to significantly change the tone of the family of Natalee Holloway. Whatever it was is not generally known, but thought to come from a private meeting with Aruban authorities about which the family isn't commenting, other than to say they are feeling better as regards the progress of the investigation.

Additional information on Paul(us) v d Sloot suggests if there is anyone legal mind on the island who might outwit the prosecution in this case, it could be him. Some colleagues have suggested that he is known to have poured over case law many have rarely if ever even read and is considered somewhat of an authority on not only the law, but the subtle loopholes and manipulations which can help an individual get around it.

This would fit very well into his past history on two levels. In Holland he is known for having tied the government's hands for nearly twenty years while preventing the building of a highway which would have cut into his family's estate. Ultimately, the highway took an entirely different route.

Added to that are other reports that as a lawyer he did not go directly into government service, but instead worked on behalf of those needing asisstance with conflicts with the government.

As regards an earlier comment of mine about a possible pattern for Joran v d Sloot, posted here - I probably did throw it out  a bit too casually. The point required additional information which I was a little too busy to address at the time.

Joran was well known to many casino and hotel staff in Aruba - as was his taste in American women. In many ways it is safe to say the young man admired many things American and he did want very much to travel here to secure his college education. That's also consistent with the email I received from an individual purported to be Joran on the night before his arrest.

Reports state that his english was unusually good, probably a result of study to make it so. And he was not shy about employing it, very often in approaching American women visiting the island. Some staff in a local hotel have even expressed surprise at how seemingly fearless he seemed, never hesitating to approach an attractive young American woman he encountered, and most usually they were young and blonde.

It certainly doesn't make anyone guilty of anything. But it also does establish a pattern witnessed by many for Joran, who some others have described as a sexual predator, to aproach a young woman who looked very much like Natalee Holloway. As relayed to me by an indivdual from the island, she was absolutely the type of young woman Joran would seek out and approach.

At the same time there seems to be no basis for his having been enrolled in some type of anger management program through his school, or otherwise. I've yet to talk to one individual who can even establish that a formalized program of that type exists on Aruba. While he was known to have seen a therapist, whatever the cause, it remains confidential and mostly unknown.

Just as with a great many factors in this case, or so it would seem.

Comments

[elaine]

IHOP

apology accepted!! LOL!!

don't spread any more rumors and dan don't gossip

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kristin-in-SC]

Island Hopper, please accept my apologies. I have backread some of your postings and I am sorry if I thought you may be trying to interfere...there has been so much of that on other blogs that one has to be suspcious at times.

I agree that JVDS wanted to protray himself as a "playa" or a "gangsta", to look cool and so on. Despite the fact that PVDS had JVDS's profiles pulled from the website, there are still plenty of other pictures of JVDS floating around on other peoples profiles.

[elaine]

shoot ihop

que' es?

[Island Hopper]

accepted

[Island Hopper]

si elaine

[elaine]

kristin,

you are cool : )

there are a lot of trolls here and it is hard to keep up with.

ihop is awesome!! you will like what he has to say he is a wealth of info!! : )

[Island Hopper]

Have you seen fla firl at all tonight?

[elaine]

tu' hace nueve idea?

DIGME'!!

[Florida Girl]

No.......

[elaine]

FG!!!!!!

where you been!!!

[Florida Girl]

hahahaha... i'm lurking.

this is my last week of class so it's crunch time. i've been reading but didn't want to get caught up in posting because i knew i wouldn't be able to quit. it took me most of the afternoon to catch up.

[Island Hopper]

I have been lurking for U

[JustMe]

Elaine, I hope that someone can crack it.

I forgot to add in my post that other than the one report I never heard another word spoken about the dogs getting hits at the VDS home.

Also, I separated cadaver dogs from search dogs. I don't know what police dogs are trained to do other than bite people. Maybe cadaver dogs and search dogs can be one and the same. I don't know.

[Island Hopper]

I was good tonight. I was quiet for a long time. :)

[Florida Girl]

hey mates!!

i've been enjoying you two tonight...give em hell!

[Cmoney]

Kristin, I'm interested in what you questioned, earlier. Who did Natalee stay with if she wasn't in her own room, and did Aruba LE question any of her roomies or others on that trip, extensively, once they left Aruban soil? I think that the points you raised are legit.

[Island Hopper]

justme they are different

[Florida Girl]

hop - i'm touched...you were lurking for me! lol

you be good.... tell me it isn't so.

elaine - thanks for taking it easy on that Gator.. :-)

[Island Hopper]

IMO, Natalee went back to her room that night/AM

[JustMe]

Cmoney, the kids said that they were all sleeping in each others' rooms and that is why Natalee's roomie was not alarmed when she did not come in that night.

As for questioning the other students I would bet the family farm that the FBI has interviewed each of them extensively.

[elaine]

justme

a high school pal of mine works w/ the dogs in broward county, they have different skills. a few others are pretty high up there on the same force. good god we are getting old!! : )

they can search for drugs too. those dogs must be pretty happy : ). but of course there ARE no drugs in south florida now are there?? LOL!!

what they do is take items of clothing from the missing person/people and go on scent. obviously if someone is dead, it is a different scent, depending on how long they are dead (and not to be crued but we all know dogs can find bones as well---no i am not a troll---sorry if that is offensive)

[Island Hopper]

wait till Greta posts transcripts tomorrow she slipped tonight. I have to look at my posts tonight on here I posted rith when I heard it so I can find the time.

[calista]

just wondering.........first - why did natalees friends leave her at a bar that night and not even check on her or ask if she was coming with them or try to get her to go - I saw them on Greta's show and they both said they would never have let her get into that car had they seen her - yet they left her without a thought - also I keep hearign thigns about Joran Vandersloot having a website...anyone know what it is or what the web address is?

[Florida Girl]

hop - i watched greta...how did she slip?

do tell.......

[elaine]

FLORIDA GAL

he was poincing on Dan and IHOP. so i was not happy with him

BUT HE USED THE CANES NAME IN VEIN!! check out his email addy!!

IHOP:

did you see where our superhero was posting from today? see the thread about joran and the plate glass window

[Florida Girl]

that interview with SC... man Greta was like an attack dog. lol she wasn't gonna let him go until he answered her. she said "just answer this one question and i'll let you go"...hahaha

like her little tiny a** is gonna stop him.....

[Brenda]

Erudite Blonde...

Ok, you got me, I just have no clue how you got your interpretation of my post....I never said a thing even slightly resembling "coded messages"...what I did do is take Greta's timeline of what the VDS family and the boys now claim (for now at least) as what happened that night and when/why.

Obviously - I feel the story as told by them is total BS, but certain things did happen at certain times and can be verified - such as times that calls were made or kids showed up at school. Using these verifiable times, and using logic, I attempted to create a "realistic" version of what very well may have happened tonight.

Please dye your hair brown...the blonde is sticking to your brain....

SO, again .....here is my version of the time line.

*************************************Todays show Greta on the record, really tightens the time line for that faithful monday..here is what I got...

1.30am-2.30am Lie #1 Cruising at California Lighthouse,

Lie #2 Fisherman’s Hut/ Arashi Beach?.

1.30-1.45am
Half truth 1.
Deepak and Satish drops off Joran near the Marriot Inn after visiting Cali Lighthouse

2.40am
Joran calls Deepak via Cellphone? Maybe asking for lift or help.

3.30am
Joran reaches home at Montana #19, Text Msg Deepak?

4.00am
PVDS picks up his Son? Geraldo reported this but not sure if it was bs or not...according to AVDS Paulus was fast asleep.

6.00am 7.00am
Joran in school, confirmed by Ms Renfrom or arubatoday.com
*****************************************************

end of Greta's timeline - now here is my interpretation -

****************************************************
Sometime between closing of CnC's and 1:45am - SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED

1.30-1.45am Question - could this be the reported "around 2am" trip over in direction of Montanje (Joran's) with Deepak and Satish in car? Could a slumped over natalee and a panicked joran be still in back seat? Natalee's body - dead or semi alive - stored in Joran's room

****sometime shortly after dropping off joran and natalee's body and the VDS household Deepak scrubs car down really good before going home - reports are on this site of him being seen around this time doing just this ******

2.40am Question - could it not be Joran calling Deepak to say he "told dad something bad happened tonight" and showed papa sloot condition natalee in - could be dead or semi alive at this point.

3.30am Question - could this not be Joran calling Deepak to say - "come by tomorrow" - dad wants to talk to us all - Dad said "he will figure out what to do"

4.00am - could be total BS considering source is Geraldo

6.00am 7.00am Papa Sloot makes sure hungover son gets on bus to school to establish a next day alibi for son - ex: a son who made it to school surely couldn't be out all night burying a body.....

6:00-ish the phone call from south end of island - Joran calls buddies to remind them to be at his house as they need to meet with papa sloot - made most likely while Joran en route to school

evening.....after school....

papa and 2 or 3 amigos meet around pool and come up with a plan...perhaps Satish not there....

Plan of papa's told to boys. Boys rehearse stories, alibi's.

sometime after dark.....

Deepak and Joran execute papa sloots plan to dispose of Natalee's body, Id, clothes and whatever else evidence there is...

in the meantime.....Beth and Alabama group arrive on island, make it over to the VDS household....Papa runs interference with story of son "out gambling"......Deepak and Joran make it back to VDS household by time Alabama group gets back.

Kids now smart asses because they feel papa Sloots plan "perfect" as body, driver's license, and any other evidence now permanently disposed of....

Papa has panic attack and tell kids to NOT TALK.
*************************************************
red herrings: the beach, the hilton, the fishermans hut, the marriott, the lighthouse - all BS - ignore these in totality.

problem: kids messed up - have dead or dying natalee to deal with
answer: joran brought on the mess, jorans' daddy a big wig, let joran's daddy figure it out.
- thus reason for the 3 amigos to end up around 2 am at the VDS household. where they were before doesnt matter, all that matters is something bad happened at this point in time.

*************************************************

nobody at this time - night that something bad happened is worried about Natalee's parents showing up, thus can dispose of body later - no great "rush"

problem: natalee's parents show up next night
solution: plan already being carefully executed. papa VDS is not going to let anything to his "perfect" son that would mess up his plans for his son's career

problem: body must never be found.
solution: incinerate body - is the absolutely best way to rid oneself of a body.... hasn't anyone ever seen how small remains of a body are after being cremated - sure a few fragments (size of a pebble) remain, but finding them over approx 76 square miles would be darn near impossible to do.

***************************************************

Anyone have a problem with this version and why it don't work?????

[Island Hopper]

10:04 She said so Beth Natalee was last here in the room or something close to that. VERY CLOSE!

[Mel]

I was pleased to read Dan's earlier note that something had occurred to give Nat's family the feel that things are moving, albeit slowly.

It is easy for us to sit here in some anonymity and place blame, bash others and even take pock shots at entire countries. However, when doing those things we/you are losing site of the real reason we are here, which is Natalee.

Humans tend to have a natural curiosity about things we do not understand and cannot control. We want to be in the know. This case is no different.

We can all imagine ourselves being in the position of Natalee's family and searching diligently to find out what happened to our loved one. Many of us would not handle it as gallantly as Beth has.

Of course, what we see of Beth is what she chooses to show us. I have no doubt that in the privacy of her family, when the night is quiet and her mind has nothing to focus on, that the pain is unbearable.

It is during those hours that when in her position, you tend to think the impossible and dreaded thoughts, that you have lost your loved one forever.

Rather than nit-picking each other's theories or heritage, spending hours playing "who done it" (at least I know I have spent hours doing this ), perhaps if we offered a prayer to whomever your Power or God may be we might see resolution faster. The power of prayer, whether you be a religious person or not, can change lives and bring about miracles.

On the other side of the coin, the suspect's families are all affected by this as well. This means their extended family and friends are affected, people like you and I that had nothing to do with this. This saga will likely end with one intentional victim and numerous unintentional ones. I feel for those victims as well.

I think it's time for Natalee and her family to have a miracle. I'll be saying my prayer for them again tonight. I hope you all will join in your own way and in your own time.

Natalee and her family need us united, not divided.

Thanks for reading this, I know it is a bit long.

Melanie

[Moscow girl]

"6.00am 7.00am
Joran in school, confirmed by Ms Renfrom or arubatoday.com"

..... and the rest of it goes like this: he came to the class room to take a rather demanding examination, and "aced it"....

If I was 17 and just killed someone, 2-3 hours ago, it would be darn hard for me to "concentrate on a school subject" and get an A!

Oh, and now we know that any 17 year old boy who likes a blond blue-eyed pretty girl must be a prospective criminal with a unique taste..... ;-)

I wish people would stop waisting time on this cowrdly jerk and his two kiss-butts, and consider other venues to pursue.... Joran already got his punishment for being a cowrdly jerk - no decent woman on this planet will even look in his direction, and those who might, deserve him! But I still say these 3 were not the ones to actually hurt the girl...

They all seem like young cowards, and cowards would not be so calm and go on so easily as nothing happened if they committed something "major".. For one thing, if Joran "hurt her", he would NOT BE SITTING IN A CASINO the following day, playing cards.... He'd be eventually somehow back at the "sceen of the crime" checking if he left any traces....

I don't think "he did it" not because I have a good opinion of him, but because I have a bad opinion of him, but what I see that is "bad" is not about "murder".

[Cmoney]

JustMe, I know what the kids have said about crashing in each others rooms -- I just wanted to know where Natalee was if not in her own room. Who did she spend the nights with?

I know that the FBI was said to have talked to the group, but I'm more interested in Aruban LE and how they followed up with those kids. Aruba is in charge of this investigation -- the FBI was limited at first as to what role they had in Aruba's investigation.

[Getagrip]

To all of those who are objecting to Dan's reports, I say: He is painting a picture. Do not take any one posting individually - read them all and draw your own conclusions.

From the beginning (I started posting here, I strayed to Scared Monkeys, but I'm back sporadically) I have stated that it was a cover-up. Every fact, rumour and innuendo has pointed to that. Of course, I give bigger weight to the facts - but you have to understand, that in such a small island, rumours fly, and most of those have at least some basis in truth.

I appreciate the picture Dan is painting for us. Draw your own conclusions. Unless you understand the island culture, and the almost innate surrealism of it, you cannot begin to understand that the truth is right there in front of our eyes - but we can't see the forest for the trees.

[LaGrandmere]

In many novels the last person to see the victim is accused. The plot usually reveals another person guitly.

Could everyone be wrong about this boy, Joran?
Think about it.

He reportedly went to school the next morning and did well on his exam. Even if he is innocent How On Earth Did He Do That after such a night before. Perhaps he leaves girls on the beach alone often.

None of Natalee's friends were alarmed about her being with him at the time. She, dear girl, was reported to want him to dance with her when he was doing something else. Goodness, they are both honor students. They probably had a lot to talk about and evidently physical attraction.

The police, finally, took the boy's family's computers and cars. Where is the evidence being evaluted? Why no reports from the too accuicutory media?

Is it possible that the aggressive behavior of the Twitty's friend's at the first meeting started this whole awful situation?

The tragic Mrs. Twitty stated that the von de Sloots had no community support. His family received many floral tributes after M.von de Sloot was released. It was reported that people were bringing food to the family also. This signifies community support to me.

You can develop the rest of this thought.

[Florida Girl]

hop = what do you think that means?

elaine - i saw you taking up for hop and dan... good job!

[Island Hopper]

cmoney why dont you email the Aruban authorities and ask them?

[JustMe]

Brenda: Are you serious or just having fun?

Do you have any idea how long it takes to remate a human body in a state of the art facility?

Do you have any idea of the stench a cremation produces?

Do you have any idea of the fat and grease that are by-products of a cremation?

Do you know that after a body is cremated in a state of the art facility the skeleton remains and must be crushed?

I think is is more plausible that Natalee was kidnapped by aliens.

[Island Hopper]

The fight between the cousins and Joran was over natalie getting in the car. they did get her out

[Mel]

Excellent points LaGrandmere.

I don't know if they are guilty or not. They do act very suspicious but are also young and stupid (the boys that is). Young, stupid and liars do not always make murderers. Sometimes it simply makes them young, stupid and immature liars.

[Florida Girl]

moscow -

it has never been proven that JVDS was back in the casinos the next night gambling. that is just what his father told the Twitty's when they showed up at the house that next night. in fact, the Twitty's said on Greta's show that they reviewed the video from the casino that PVDS told them Joran was at, and he wasn't in the video. could be he was at another casino, but he wasn't at the one his father told them he was at.

[Cmoney]

Island Hopper -- I'm just curious about the investigation. Thought I'd try to discuss this case here. If I thought that the polis would answer an "email" from me -- I'd send one.

[Island Hopper]

But Natalee was already drugged. they took her to the room to seleep it off. She was nearly out when the friends went back to the pool.

[Florida Girl]

hop = ok..... fight, got that.

"they did ger her out" ???? not following you.

[CancunGirl]

Brenda:
Very good insights. I believe that the timeline where the Kalpoe brothers leave Joran on the beach with Natalee, then leave them there and "something bad happens".. When "whatever bad thing happened", Joran called Deepak first to pick him up, then said no, I've gotten a ride. That means to me he called his Dad, the judge wannabe with "connections". It was his dad that picked him up with or without Natalee but probably WITH and took her to their home in Noord. Do you remember when Beth and Greta showed up unexpectedly at the VDS's home and she said "I know my daughter has been here"?. It was a feeling she got and said it before entering to have that 90 minute talk at which time Paulus "verified" to Beth by his lack of memory of the events of that night, the HE KNOWS SOMETHING. Paulus could not remember if Joran had gone to school that day? How he got out of the house to go to C&C's after he had Paulus pick him up at McDonalds, etc, etc.. These are all questions that Beth posed on Nancy Grace's show last night? Also, Beth and the family "know more" than they can tell us. Today, in the sad interview at the HI room where Natalee stayed, Beth said "I know Natalee is here in Aruba". How and why she says that? I don't know... but it seems that she doesn't believe any other possible theory of her being off the island and somewhere in Venezuela o Colombia or even Curacao.
This is so frustrating.. I really do hurt for this family but definitely the judge KNOWS more and that is why he was picked up and charged with "conspiracy or accessory to a crime" earlier and I believe his "connections" is what got him out.
Anyway, these are my two cents.. Thanks for your insights.
CancunGirl

[Florida Girl]

hop = fact or rumor?

[Island Hopper]

Cmoney do you need an answer? Is it not enough if they just act on it?

[Mel]

CancunGirl...
I am very afraid you are right...

[Island Hopper]

theory, sorry

[Cmoney]

Island Hopper, no, I don't *need* an answer. But, having answers allows me to reach my own conclusions -- and I do like that. Who doesn't?

[JustMe]

Cmoney, I don't know where she slept the other nights. I have to believe that the police are aware of where she was each minute leading up to the time she left Carlos'n Charlie's. I know where you are leading and I ain't going there.

I assume Aruban authorities have not questioned the other children on the trip, but that the FBI has (thank God it was them and not the Arubans). I have nothing to base that on other than common sense. The FBI does not have legal power or authority in Aruba and the Arubans do not have legal power or authority in the USA.

[Getagrip]

2nd and last comment of the night:

Firstly, EruditeBlond, let me say that I appreciate your insights. Regarding the phonecalls, it does not jibe that a cell phone call was made at 2:35-2:40 am from Joran to Deepak for a lift and then a txt message 40 minutes later to say 'I'm home'. It does not take very long from one end of the island to the other. Wouldn't Deepak have been on his way already? If not already at the 'pickup' location? I agree that guys their age, do not call or txt to say 'I made it home ok', even in the islands (although it is more common for girls in the islands to do this, than in North America).

Secondly, regarding Joran's acing the exam...don't forget that his mother is a teacher in the school - another conflict of interest may be at play here.

All in all, look for the conflicts of interest - father's relationship with LE, purportedly police commissioner, district attorney, et al. Mother schoolteacher at Joran's school. Dutch nationals covering for each other.

Get info about all these relationships, Dan. You will discover many conflicts of interest, and therein may lie the key to breaking this case.