4:30 PM Update On Aruba Search

As regards reports of Natalee Holloway having previously "run away" - one to return to another caribbean island - perhaps Jamaica? ... she has never been to that island, or on the speculated trip. The only report of her ever trying to run away I could confirm was when she was three years old and attempted to unlock the screen door of her home from the inside.

The search is on going with no significant developments. Something "interesting" was spotted below the water in one of the quarries but a subsequent dive turned up nothing of significance. Apparently something dumped took on the appearance of a body in the fetal position, leading to the further investigation.

While the grid search is proceeding at sea and on land, some spots of interest will not be searched until tomorrow. These include locations, quarries and additional sites deemed to be most accessible to someone in the known locations attempting to dispose of a body in a somewhat hurried manner.

It appears a large garbage dump with difficult geography, as much as a sixty foot drop in some places, has been searched to some degree but not as yet completely. The cadaver dogs being used in the search are reported to be able to tell the difference between decomposing refuse and a decaying body.

Additional reports suggest the search team does not plan to leave until they either find what they are looking for, or conclude that it cannot be accomplished given the technology and resources. There are sites available to contribute funds to the EquuSearch efforts.

Comments

[thedude]

first

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

Wow! This is from Dan's update at the top. Talk about dedication.

"Additional reports suggest the search team does not plan to leave until they either find what they are looking for, or conclude that it cannot be accomplished given the technology and resources. There are sites available to contribute funds to the EquuSearch efforts."

Here's a post I made on another blog after I donated. If anyone is unsure of how or what to do, it includes the link and my comments about how easy the process is.

Here's the website - and you can do it online or by phone...how easy is that!

http://www.texasequusearch.org/

That was easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Network for Good Giving; they keep 3%, not bad, and you can designate who money goes to; I said "Natalie Holloway Search"
They email you a copy of receipt; it's tax deductible.
Don't forget your email address when signing in for the first time.
$10 minimum

Every little bit helps, and how can anyone not be compelled by the determination conveyed in their saying they won't leave until they find her or determine she cannot be found there.
With a lump in my throat, I'm headed back to the donation site for a third time, and I'm sure many of you are too.
Take care, All
Paula

[sara]

thanks for the info paula...

[resorttownmom]

I live in an East Coast resort town. In the summer, this place is a hopping party town. I really don't find Joran past behavior too much different than our local teenagers. Times have changed and often parents are way too permissive. Teenagers make mistakes and do stupid things. My best friend went away once leaving her elderly mother in charge. I drove by the house and there were cars all along the block. They had turned her house into that night's party house. I called her on her cell and said "They are having a big party (with alcohol) at your house and holding your elderly mother hostage. What do you want me to do? She said call the cops so they don't know it was you that ratted and I will be right home." All of her kids got in trouble. This is not uncommon. I have grown kids now that survived teenage. The comments on this board are really far out as to what may have happened. Mothers of teenagers will tell you there are many possible scenarios. One might be that Natalie went with Joran because he was tall and athletic. Many girls have steady boyfriends by senior year and Natalee was not currently with anyone because she would have spent her last night with her boyfriend. Maybe Natallee (in her mind) wanted to prove to a boy in her class (like an ex-boyfriend or other boy) that she was attractive and boy's liked her even if he was not paying any attention to her. So she rides around in the car with the three guys, maybe sees the lighthouse and then she and Joran get dropped at the Marriott. They walk and talk and Joran gets fresh because he had a "hook up in mind" and Natalee just wanted to talk. Natalee gets furious and storms off toward the Holiday Inn. Joran is embarrassed and rejected and lets her go. He calls for a ride to go home and that's the last he saw of her. It's much more likely that Natalee was kidnapped on that way back to the Holiday Inn than Joran did something to harm her. This investigation has wasted valuable time by not starting immediately on the kidnapping theory. Every boat, freighter, ferry, plane-- any possible method of transporting Natalee off that island should have been the first priority. This investigation has been totally worthless in my opinion. A kidnapper's trail goes cold fast. As a mother, I am totally distraught and feel terrible for both families.

[sara]

resort woman:

you can't discount joran since he was with her. being that he had been in therapy for anger management, who knows what could have happened. however, i do think the kidnapping theory should have been looked into in the very begining. i find it odd that the poster for NH said "missing" at first, and now says "kidnapped", but there has been no comment on that by anyone.

[Hopeful]

Sara, It said in PEOPLE magazine that NH's mom changed it because it sounded more urgent.

[spike]

resorttown, wonder why they said they dropped her off at HI the first time? Why not tell the truth at first then your theory would be believable.

[cat]

has anyone else heard that someone reported that evidence has been found that Natalee had communicated via the internet with people in Aruba before she went on the trip down there?

[Websleuthing]

I'm glad the "runaway" rumors have now been dispelled.

I've seen it on aruba.com that people say she ran away 2x before, which would be hard for me to believe since her family seems wealthy and she did pretty well in school, and wasn't hurting for money from parental units.

I'm glad ES is on the case and is diving into the water and gridding. Donating to them is a great.

[gemebwai]

Well, kidnapped seems far fetched but remains an option, I stick with the Scientology Church alternative, they are here, they are out to get rich young people... And they hate the US (Check out why the Freewinds never enters US territory)

[sara]

hopeful:
thank you. i didn't see that in people mag.

cat:
i heard the same thing a few weeks ago, but not since then.

[fokje]

resorttownmom,
I was thinking more or less the same, how things proceed these past days I'm starting to believe the authorities on Aruba have no clue at all. I never heard so many people are suspects for the worst crime, viz premeditate murder, while there is not even a body found. I never saw something compared to this in holland. However I can be mistaken of course.

[elaine]

hey sara

how ya doing!!

[sara]

hey elaine!

i'm just fine. still praying that this will all come to an end this weekend... but i fear that will not be the case.

how are you today?

[Websleuthing]

I was just thinking: What time is it in Aruba currently.

I'm in PST, I was thinking, because it's in S. America they'd be on West Coast time, but I'm wrong. They are 3 hours ahead of PST, so I think they're on EST time.

Ultimately it means that there's less daylight hours to look in the ocean for her, than if they were on PST today. However, there's always tomorrow as well. I'm sure ES will try and find her to the best of their abilities.

[gemebwai]

Currently 5:41pm, sunrise at 6:15, sunset at 7:15pm

[sara]

websleuthing:

you're right about the time. still some daylight left tho...

[beebee]

the aruba poolice act like key stone cops....in the movie In the Heat of the Night Det. Virgil Tibbs would have solved this already alas all the frustraition we are all going through! Hoping for the best!

[Mel]

with the sonar equipment they have, it is likely they may be able to still do some searching at night by boat. Of course, that depends on the reefs, their knowlege of them, etc.

[resorttownmom]

From my experience as a mother and a teacher(with an education and psychology degree), I just find it unlikely that any of the three boys harmed her. Unless Joran ever showed any inappropriate aggression toward women, his anger management issues can be part of rather common young male problems. Young boys start punching on each other in the fourth grade. It drives teachers crazy. It's part of the forces of nature that cause young bucks to start fighting in the spring. Joran maybe did some stupid things. Sadly, it is possible that the initial lies and the stupid things have steered the investigation to the totally wrong conclusion. And, therefore, wasted valuable time that was needed to find Natalee. The three boys did a very bad thing when they lied to investigators.

[fokje]

LOL beebee, where is Sherlock when we need him? :)

[gemebwai]

Beebee, if Aruban police is keystone cops what does that make the FBI? Liers for saying they are doing an adecuate job or are they keystone cops as well?

[Phantom]

gemebwai,

That's quite a story as to why the Freewinds never enter US waters.

[Just Thinking]

Resorttownmom: I likewise have two Master's Degrees and am a mom of teenager. I am leaning toward your thinking also... but how could Natalee have just vanished? I was surprised at Greta's trip to the beach when she pointed at the Holiday Inn. IF Nat started talking back, that appeared to be a long distance where something could have happened to her.
By the way, I am from Alabama and am certainly not taking up for the boys.

[Just Thinking]

typo: walking back... not talking back. Sorry

[sara]

pvds is going to go free...

[sara]

why does mr. vds get immediate release and the dj has to wait until tomorrow to get released?

[tanya]

justice will prevail. I have to honestly believe mr pvd will pay for this one way or the other

[gemebwai]

PVDS should never have been detained in the first place (according to ruling!) SC's detention was legal and was approved until tomorrow, although is likely to be release later tonight.

[gemebwai]

By dutch law, a 1st degree family member can not be a sworn witness in a legal case. PVDS could therefore lie to police w/o consequences. He has now waved the right to defend his son on that grounds... Very unusual!

[sara]

gemebwai:

can you explain that a little more to me please about why pvds was released right away.

[gemebwai]

As far as I know he has not been released yet, I understood the judge will rule on that at 8PM. He is likely to be released at that time. The reason is a tecnicality (according to a friend of mine at the DA office that is here on a visit), namely, he will have to sign a statement and could not do so before because of the 1st degree family rule (which would have made his statement inadmissible in court).

[sara]

thank you.

geraldo just said that mrs. vds said her hubby was already released.

although i think geraldo is not the most reliable source either...

[stacy]

it dont make sense how steve croes boss said he knew one of the kalpoe brothers from the internet cafe, which made it sound like someone he barely knew yet he went and lied for them and risked getting in trouble. sounds like they knew each other pretty well...

[gemebwai]

He might have signed the statement and be released right after that, that's for the police to decide. Don't have the radio on here so news lags (no regual news broadcasts on TV today (by Aruban channels).

[Stumped]

FOX and CNN have anounced the release of PVDS

[gemebwai]

Stacey, friendship on Aruba goes a long way, specialy against authorities.

[Spike]

MSM, aka Yahoo, has already posted that VDS Sr. is out of the clink...

[tanya]

re: croes's release Well lets say he seen joran with natalie what was he dong there? why call joran next morning unless for blackmail. have we checked his bank account?

[jules]

I heard that 3 other classmates of Natalee have died ....I don't know when but I am assuming over the last year or so. That is terrible.

HAs anyone else heard that???

[Spike]

I sure hope they've bugged the VDS cars when they had them, and put the proper monitoring on Mr./Mrs. VDS. One can only wonder the scope and depth of questions PVDS & Wife will be having shortly. Could prove interesting...

[aware]

YEs,,, 2 suicides..1 death via accident(car?)

[gemebwai]

Andra: this sense of happiness is in your mind. Although I must say (and I see more and more posts in that direction) that it's get more likely that the VDSs might not be involved. Besides, since an independant judge rules that the detention of PVDS was not justified, makes it more likely PVDS is not guilty (other then raising his child the wrong way). Suppose thats it, how would it feel being having your son detained for a crime like kidnapping and murder, having just failed an exam and making a furture carreer very dim and on top of that being detained for something you have no part in? I'm not saying he's innocent, I just don't know and would like to leave all options open. On the tourism issue, I don't think it will make that much of a difference, maybe some, but in the end it will pick up because it remains one of the better places to be (on vacation).

[Spike]

Mom & Just Thinking... are you kidding me?

Sociopaths and buddy serial killers and rapists learn early on how to fool others. With due respect to your education and experience, this kid and his buds still have got a ton of explaining to do.

As for how could they hurt her? you clearly haven't gone through teen years with testosterone blazing. Most of us control ourselves, a few learn how easy it is to rape and get away with.

[EruditeBlonde]

I offer (humbly) the following observations from Croes' forthcoming release and recently disclosed details:

1. The admittedly fabricated Holiday Inn Drop-off Alibi: Query whether giving a false statement to police is a crime in Aruba as it is here. If so, the Kalpoes, Joran VdS and Croes are all guilty of this in light of the Holiday Inn story which was recanted. Given the fact that Croes' link to the other suspects is his gratuitous confirmation of the bogus story to police, it makes me wonder whether all of them, including Croes, might not be subject to prosecution for this at a later date, regardless of Croes' release tomorrow and regardless if any one of them is ultimately exonerated in Natalee's disappearance.

2. Joran's 2:40 AM text message To Kalpoe (that he had arrived at home): Why does everyone rely on this for the "timeline"? Is it not equally as plausible that the content of the text message itself was a lie and the entire text message itself a ploy perpetrated by Joran for no reason other than to establish an alibi that he (Joran) was home when in fact he wasn't... i.e., was off doing something else in furtherance of whatever happened to Natalee. Indeed that text message could very well have been suggested by his father in order to create a contremporaneous technology-based record that he knew police would later use to reconstruct the evening's events.

The entire mesaage is bizarre. Why would a young male text message another young male friend to say, in essence, "hey, I made it home OK" as if Kalpoe was lying awake worrying about him? That seems totally implausible for this group of man-boys. Besides, the admonition, "Let me know you made it home OK" is something a responsible adult would do.... hardly the picture painted of these 3 comrades. Indeed, when juxtaposed with Joran's story that he left Natalee on the beach, his "responsible" don't-worry-about-me text message behavior in no squares with the notion of leaving a young girl inebriated alone on a beach in the middle of the night when she has a plane to catch early in the morning. To do so would have been a patently irresponsible act, even if he did as he claims and even if she were alive/OK when he left her there.

3. Potential civil liability of Joran's parents: Parents here are potentially vicariously liable for the torts committed by their children, and negligent supervision is a viable theory. These parents knew their child engaged in underage drinking and underage gambling and did nothing to stop him; in fact, he was given free reign by having his own "apartment" and his father accompanied him to the casino. Query whether Aruba civil law recognizes this civil liability theory.

4. Potential dram shop laibility of the bar who served alcohol to Joran: Had he done anything to Natalee while under the influence of alcohol, the bars who served him as a minor (Carlos 'n' Charlie's and/or the casino) might also retain civil liability if Aruba civil law recognizes these theories.

Dan: Many thanks to you for all your hard work from a former US Dept of Justice Trial Attorney.

[loco]

ANDRA

GO FUCK YOURSELF BRUTO/A REDNECK

[Erudite Blonde]

P.S. In my post, when I used the term "inebriated" to refer to Natalee's state when Joran said he left her on the beach, it was, of course, relying arguendo on Joran's account, not the facts, or even my own suspicion (which is that she was drugged). Whether she was sober or not or drugged as many have suggested (and as Dan's earlier post suggests that some believe to be Joran's MO, as told to a third party) remains to be discovered.

[K.Jeanne]

As to the thoughts that "the boys" probably didn't have anything to do with Natalee's disappearence: What about the reports that Joran has bragged about using the date rape drug in the past? How do we dispel those images in connection with NH being missing? How do we justify the fact they have lied about the sequence of events if nothing to hide? The arrogrance to BH when she tried to ask him about her daughter? His unacceptable life style of gambling and drinking...does this fit a picture of a normal boy, coupled with his anger management? I think the anger was something more than just simple sibling rivalry. I raised two kids, and they fought a lot, but it was never anything to seek anger management for.

Kidnapping would be a welcome thought just now. I know her family must be so weary. I send prayers for them.

[Stumped]

Erudite Blonde - Excellent observation on the text messaging blurb. Only under direction of daddy VDS to point it out as an arrival time, besides JVDS may have been too upset at the time (Given the bad thing that happened to Natalee) to even place a call and talk or leave a voice message to his friend and let him know he was home. His phone records would be interesting to note if he placed all calls all the time, or interspersed it with frequent text messages. That would tell a lot.

[Dutchy]

Andra could you please stop talking out of your arse? You "blogging" my view....