Perry Versus Palin

By
August 24, 2011

Simply an observation from watching the goings and comings on the Internet and how various voices and forces seem to be aligning themselves as relates to their support for Rick Perry or Sarah Palin. This isn't a cut and dried observation and it may change in time. Also, most groups seem to have room for supporters of either one and by observing it, I'm not making a declarative statement that I'm supporting one or the other. Ultimately, that may turn out to be a mostly unconscious decision. One then finds themselves where they are after taking time to evaluate and interact with people in both camps. 

For what it's worth, I'm getting a sense that, within the conservative movement, Perry may come to more represent the old line conservative movement, much of which is seriously compromised as a result of having been established in Washington for so long.

At the same time, I'm getting a sense that if the movement is to truly be re-energized and move forward from something it's been for decades – something already bound up in Washington – it may take a Sarah Palin to move forward along that path. If that does become the case, the two paths do lead to a different place.

Ultimately, I believe the older line path – Perry, ultimately may only lead to more of the same – a lot of good talk, but not a lot of change. It may take Sarah Palin, or a Sarah Palin,  or some number of them over time to truly re-vitalize the conservative movement in America. But I'm far from certain of it at this point, it's simply beginning to look that way.

Finally, for any Perry supporters already suggesting well, he's just always been of the Palin camp -which I have not and am not at present, try to bring a little more intelligence to the debate, or go debate someone else, or invoke someone else's name. You're boring me, already.

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Comments:
  1. standing4Liberty says:

    Godd and thoughtful analysis, Dan. I think you are on the money.

  2. Jim says:

    Question for you: Have you read Perry’s book “Fed Up”?
    If not, then I would respectfully suggest that you pick it up and spend some time reading it before you dismiss Perry as essentially “more of the same.” If you read the book and still think the same thing, then you and I will probably have to agree to disagree. I think that a successful Perry candidacy could lead to as much – if not more – fundamental reform of the federal government as a successful Palin candidacy would.
    That being said, Perry and Palin are long-time political allies. I firmly believe that Palin will not run and that both she and Giuliani will wind up endorsing Perry.
    More on my own thinking on the subject here:
    http://www.polimerican.com/sarah-palin-set-surprise/
    http://www.polimerican.com/palin-and-giuliani-sure-to-endorse-perry/

  3. KentL says:

    @Jim: Palin did endorse Orrin Hatch, so I suppose Palin endorsing Perry isn’t entirely unimaginable. I’d be surprised, though. The fact that she wrote a nice letter for him once doesn’t mean as much as you seem to think it means.
    As for his book, look at how quickly he’s distanced himself from things he wrote there. In the book he called for scrapping the tax code and replacing it with the “Fair Tax” … now, not so much. In the book he called for repealing the 16th amendment … now, not so much. He argued that Social Security is unconstitutional … now, he’s not willing to go out on that limb. In the book he said states should be able to opt out of Social Security … now, that’s not a *plan* it’s just something that we need to talk about, something that needs to be on the table. Etc. etc. etc. blah blah blah.
    If Palin is going to run she needs to copy the one smart thing Perry has done and give Red State some publicity when she announces. Maybe a big ad buy, or better yet, an exclusive interview via streaming video.

  4. WarEagle82 says:

    Anyone can write a book. By itself, it is meaningless. Perry’s acts in Texas over the last 10 years speak of a big-government, “compassionate conservative” all too like George W. Bush. To me, that is “more of the same.”

  5. Aka Trans Texas Corridor.

  6. Jim says:

    Kent -
    There’s a difference between arguing for an “ideal” world, as Perry was clearly doing in “Fed Up,” and in trying to win an election which will require the votes of independents and moderate Democrats to win. It doesn’t matter a whit if Perry says all the right things if he can’t win.
    What we’re looking for from a candidate is not what exact policy they run on, because the realities of politics are that they will rarely have to opportunity to get their exact policy preferences enacted. What we need to know from them is: what are their instincts? I think that “Fed Up” provides a lot of insight into what Perry’s instincts are. And I believe that they are very similar to Palin’s.
    I’m not going to claim that Perry is perfect, and even that he’s necessarily even ideal. However, the reality is that this election is going to come down to a choice between Romney or Perry no matter how hard some people wish that Palin will swoop into the race and win the nomination by acclaim. That’s not going to happen. And no one else who stands a reasonable shot at winning is likely to announce either. You’re going to have to ultimately choose between Perry and Romney.
    Perry seems to be the riskier choice for the general election simply because he is far more conservative than Romney, but I think ultimately the right one for Republicans.
    WarEagle -
    To back up that assertion, you’d have to point out things like Bush’s No Child Left Behind or Medicare Part D in Perry’s record. I haven’t seen any sweeping new social programs or initiatives from Perry. Business-friendly? Yes. Willing to use state tax dollars to attract businesses? Yes. But that’s a choice that Texas voters made about how they want their state run, and well within the 10th Amendment constraints.
    Where do you find his support for broad new federal programs that would put him into the Bush “compassionate conservative” league?

  7. Jim says:

    Nathan -
    1) That’s not “compassionate conservatism.” Compassionate conservatism refers to enacting social programs with conservative constraints, a la Medicare Part D – a new entitlement program utilizing the private sector rather than a government bureaucracy.
    2) Pesky Truth did a great blog post about all sorts of negatives about Perry which you can find here:
    http://peskytruth.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/rick-perrys-negatives/
    Maybe the answers he provides aren’t good enough for you, but I would argue that his record is far superior to Romney on pretty much every issue of importance to conservatives. And those are the choices you are going to have, like it or not.
    Of course, you could always stay home and ensure that Obama gets a second term instead because Obama’s supporters are going to go to the polls in 2012 one way or the other. Your choice.

  8. Jim I know It’s just one of the things that Triggers alarm bells.

  9. Pat D says:

    “Your boring”???? Try “You are” or the contraction “You’re”. Grammar rant over. I rather like the analysis at C4P (http://conservatives4palin.com/2011/08/accidental-good-fortune-or-strategic-genius-by-the-woman-tony-knowles-called-alley-cat-smart.html) that suggests Palin wanted Perry in the race. Is she that cunning? Alaskan’s call her “alley cat smart” and “the arctic fox”. I’ve been a fan of Palin from way before McCain picked her. In my view, it was the only good thing his campaign did, and she saved his sorry ass from a Carteresque defeat.
    Now, of the current crop of candidates, Perry stands out as someone with balls. We need someone with balls, or we’ll be mired in mediocrity forever. Nobody is going to say Romney has balls. Cain has balls but can’t break 10%. Bachmann has balls (you can see I use balls in a figurative sense) but is fading.
    Perry may have the balls but he also has baggage. He increased the indebtedness of his state. His campaign contributors got pay-offs. He’s soft on illegal immigration. That’s going to hurt him more in the primaries than the general.
    The Arctic Fox endorsed Perry in his battle with the Bushies in his gubernatorial campaign. She appeared with him in a campaign appearance. Score that as one against the GOP establishment. If you analyse her endorsements you’ll see they are a combination of conservative and strategic. Her endorsement of Nikki Haley in South Carolina is instructive. She helped a conservative woman move from back of the pack to win. Almost coincidentally, South Carolina is a strategic primary state.
    Palin is now in the catbird seat, waiting for the best moment in the Romney/Perry contest to enter the race. Better they batter each other than her. I like her chances, and the longer she waits, the better they get.

  10. Who Let the Donks Out says:

    Pesky Truth did a great blog post about all sorts of negatives about Perry …
    And managed to fill umpteen pages with a list of negatives so far off the mark that they didn’t mention Islam at all. You’d think Perry hadn’t instituted a state-wide program to teach Texas school kids about what a great and peaceful religion Islam really is, and that he isn’t a personal friend of an Imam who claims to be a direct descendent of Mohammed.

  11. Who Let the Donks Out says:

    “I think that “Fed Up” provides a lot of insight into what Perry’s instincts are. ”
    Heh. Apparently his instincts are things he runs away from when people ask questions.

  12. Jim says:

    Who Let the Donks Out -
    That’s just a ludicrous attack. Some background:
    http://blog.chron.com/believeitornot/2011/08/gov-rick-perrys-relationship-with-muslims-may-set-him-apart/
    And before you get started on Ismailis, read on Wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismailis
    Teaching Islamic history isn’t an evil thing, proselytizing is. If you’re one of those people who just think all Muslims are evil, then your bigotry is your own problem. And if you’re not, then why are you even mentioning this as a “negative”?

  13. Jim says:

    Who Let the Donks Out -
    I’m assuming you’re referring to this:
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/08/iowa-2012
    And if you actually watch the video, Perry attempted to answer his question and the guy just kept on talking. Perry asked him if he was going to let him answer, and the guy kept talking. If he had actually wanted one rather than a “YouTube moment” then he would have shut up after asking the question and let Perry answer it like he tried to.
    So no. The guy didn’t deserve an answer, no matter how self-serving his description of the event was. The video shows clearly that he just wouldn’t shut up. I don’t blame Perry for blowing him off in the middle of a crowded diner while a bunch of other people were trying to talk to Perry too. Next time you ask a question, let the guy answer. THEN you can whine about it if he doesn’t. But if you don’t give him a chance, then the fault is yours not his.

  14. Right Wingnut says:

    @Jim
    Perry is already backtracking on things he included in his book. Apparentlly, he was just kidding about social security being unconstitutional.
    (…)
    Rick Perry wrote in his book, “Fed Up!” that Social Security is unconstitutional. He hadn’t really retreated from it as of last week, when he confirmed to me that he’d consider replacing it with a set of state pensions.
    But his communications director seems to be in full retreat, in a comment to The Wall Street Journal’s
    Neil King:
    But since jumping into the 2012 GOP nomination race on Saturday, Perry has tempered his Social Security views. His communications director, Ray Sullivan, said Thursday that he had “never heard” the governor suggest the program was unconstitutional. Not only that, Sullivan said, but “Fed Up!” is not meant to reflect the governor’s current views on how to fix the program.
    Perry now officially favors the same thing as everyone else: strengthening the program.
    (…)
    http://www.rightspeak.net/2011/08/65-days.html

  15. serfer62 says:

    First…every new entry soars then plummets although The Donald’s was spectacular.
    Secound…Perry agreed to NOT run for POTUS to gain Gov Palins endorsement.
    Third…Palins gonna run and win first the nomination (great weeping in DC GOP, Bushies & Rovinsky) then the White House.
    PS I like W but the clan has really smirched that with Babs & the clown in florida.

  16. Who Let the Donks Out says:

    @Jim: No I don’t think all Muslims are evil. I’m just pointing out that for a list that claims to be trying to list the things Perry’s critics are saying, it’s rather amazing that they managed to get through 17 of them without mentioning Islam. Maybe they’ve never heard about Pamela Geller.
    And before you think that an article about the Ismailis even begins to address this issue, the curriculum he put into Texas public schools is not about Ismailis. It’s about all of Islam. Try explaining that to the Tea Partiers.
    Maybe a positive view of Islam will work out to be a good thing for Perry, as the chron.com article suggests. If that were true, though, you’d expect his supporters to be playing it up. Maybe Perry’s web site could post a link to the MHC curriculum materials?

  17. Joe says:

    We must all turn into PerryKrishnas. First it was Rove, now he is a PerryKrishna, then it was Erik Erikson, now he is a PerryKrishna, then it was Inholf, now he is a PerryKrishna. Go my friends, go to your nearest airport and recruit more PerryKrishnas.
    Palin 2012

  18. Jim says:

    serfer -
    You can, of course, back up your claim that “Perry agreed to NOT run for POTUS to gain Gov Palins endorsement,” right?
    What are you going to do when Palin announces that she’s not running?
    Who Let the Donks Out -
    There are bound to be a lot of people who criticize Perry from both sides of the aisle. Just because you’re all worked up because Pamela Geller said something doesn’t mean that: a) Pesky Truth was but intentionally chose not to address it, b) that the criticism is actually valid, or c) that it really matters.
    Answer the question: Do you honestly believe that Rick Perry is FOR Muslim terrorists? Is there any doubt in your mind that he would aggressively pursue any terrorist simply because they were Muslims? Did George W. Bush – who peppered every speech about terrorism with talking points about how we weren’t at war with Islam – fail to prosecute the War on Terror?
    If not, then WTF difference does it make? How is this even a valid discussion about his qualifications or record unless you are trying to allege that it would somehow affect his ability to be president.
    You’re obviously beating around the bush trying to insinuate something negative about Perry, so why don’t you actually man up and say it?

  19. JRD says:

    Yeah I read Fed Up and I’m fed up with Perry’s crony capitalism.

  20. Jim says:

    Joe -
    And when Palin announces that she’s not running, what are you going to do?
    She’s not a candidate. She’s not going to be a candidate. You have a choice between Romney, Perry and Obama.
    That’s reality.

  21. Jim says:

    JRD -
    That’s certainly your right.
    Please explain why you believe that Romney or Obama will be better choices.

  22. Who Let the Donks Out says:

    @Jim: Here’s the point you’re trying to miss. The list of 17 negatives is a hoot because the author claims to be trying to do a thorough survey of the criticisms made against Perry, and claims to have spent weeks reading thousands of articles on every critical blog he could find … and yet somehow he managed to miss one of the things that would give Perry the most trouble among Tea Partiers. But you’ll see this list cited over and over on redstate and similar places as “proof” that Perry has been vetted.
    Again, if you disagree and really think that other article is right about this pro-Islam curriculum being a plus for Perry, then publicize the MHC curriculum materials and let people see what Texas school children are being taught about Islam. Things like “The religion that the Prophet Muhammad preached provided his followers an ethical and moral vision for leading a life of righteousness.” Between things like that, supporting the DREAM act, saying that he’s fine with states allowing gay marriage, etc., maybe he can pull in some of the liberal vote!
    WTF difference does it make? Publicize the curriculum that Perry helped push through, with the help of his friend the Imam who is allegedly a direct descendant of Muhammed, and see WTF difference it makes.
    Listen carefully to this: what I’m trying to insinuate is that Perry, and his supporters, are trying create a false image for the candidate that covers over things that would hurt his chances in the primaries. That’s because, ultimately, as Riehl was pointing out above, Perry is nothing like Palin. Nothing at all. If he’s like any of the other candidates, it’s Romney.

  23. Jim says:

    WLTDO -
    I don’t have a link to that curriculum. But since you’re so hot and bothered by it, I’m assuming that you must. Feel free to publish the link any time.
    I don’t know what’s in it, but since you’re breathlessly repeating it over and over again like there’s something evil in there, then by all means enlighten the rest of us.
    What I DID find, in response to your posts, was this blog entry:
    http://www.countercontempt.com/archives/1982
    which does a pretty comprehensive job of shooting down Geller’s argument.
    Please feel free to peruse it and explain (backed up by actual sourcing, rather than innuendo) where the author got it wrong.

  24. Who Let the Donks Out says:

    “Please explain why you believe that Romney or Obama will be better choices.”
    At least that’s a more honest argument. Can we fit it on a bumper sticker? “Perry: not as bad as Romney” for the primaries, and “Perry: not as bad as Obama” for the general. Goosebumps!
    Perry jumped in pretty late to avoid the early debates, but there’s such a vacuum among the current candidates that I suspect there will be two or three big entries still to come. In other words, you’re whistling past the graveyard when you pretend that the only options are Romney and Perry. You’d love it if the only choices were two big phonies because that would let you make the lesser of two evils argument, as you do above. Just wait. Perry will implode like The Donald.

  25. Jim says:

    Just to follow up:
    Don’t forget to read the author’s PRIOR article on the subject:
    http://www.countercontempt.com/archives/1945
    Take special note, while you’re thoroughly reading it all, that the state of Israel seems to think pretty highly of Rick Perry – given that they awarded him the “Defender of Jerusalem” award.
    So please explain how you and Pamela Geller have much more knowledge about Perry’s super-secret Muslim ties than they do. Seems to me they might have done a little more background research than reading a couple of hysterical blog posts before they went and gave that award to some sort of secret-Muslim sympathizer. Or are your internet research skills better than the Mossad’s too?
    If you want to be a Palin supporter, then by all means, feel free to tilt at that windmill. Or should we play tit for tat and I can point out an hysterical blog post like:
    http://www.debbieschlussel.com/21566/thats-conservative-palinmessiah-endorses-jesse-jackson-palfan-of-islam-iran-amnesty-for-us-senate/
    That’s all the proof I need that she supports sharia and she’s just like Romney too, right?
    This is a ridiculous argument based on a ridiculous premise.
    If you don’t like Perry, then just say it. But making up stuff to justify your hate just makes you look ridiculous.

  26. Jim says:

    WLTDO -
    No. You’re the one engaging in wishful thinking. I’m being realistic. I’ve spent a lot of time analyzing the race and examining the FACTS surrounding them.
    You’re obviously hooked on Palin. Great. But you’ve obviously idealized her beyond any sense of rationality.
    Please explain exactly which “two or three big entries” you think are going to happen.
    Ryan has said definitely no.
    Christie has said definitely no.
    Daniels has said definitely no.
    Barbour has said definitely no.
    Giuliani couldn’t win a single primary back in 2008 when foreign policy was more relevant than the economy. He’s not going to get in.
    I’ve provided the links showing the myriad reasons why Palin isn’t going to run.
    So who exactly is it that you think is going to jump in who has the ability to change the race in any significant way?

  27. Jim says:

    WLTDO -
    Your last post tells me everything I need to know about how little actual analysis you’ve done of the race and just how deep your wishful thinking runs.
    Perry will implode? Really? This is the guy who has never lost in 10 straight elections. He beat Rove, the Bushes, and Kay Bailey Hutchison in 2010 on their home turfs. You think this guy plays bean bag politics? Obviously you know exactly squat about Texas Democrats if you think he’s had some kind of easy ride holding statewide elected office for the last two decades plus.
    He may or may not win the nomination, but for you to say something profoundly ignorant like “Perry will implode like The Donald.” shows how little you actually know about the subject.

  28. Who Let the Donks Out says:

    You couldn’t find a link? That’s in part because the posted curriculum was removed from the web site shortly after Geller criticized Perry’s role in getting it into the Texas school system. Isn’t that funny! Isn’t that strange!
    But if you or anyone else wants to find it all they need to do is go to google. This is one response to the article you cite: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/08/perrys-pandering.html
    People can read the curriculum details themselves (how bad could it be? It was developed at Harvard!), read the article you cite, read the response, and make up their own minds. Information is not Perry’s friend.

  29. Jim says:

    WLTDO -
    So your back-up to Pamela Geller’s accusations is linking to Pamela Geller’s post?
    Really?
    And that article is the one to which I already posted the complete refutation of her argument?
    So in other words…you’ve got nothing to back up your entire line of argument other than jumping up and down and repeating the same thing over and over again even in the face of arguments which completely rebut everything which was said.
    We’re done here. You’re not even being rational here.
    Feel free to continue the crazy without me.

  30. Who Let the Donks Out says:

    “He may or may not win the nomination, but for you to say something profoundly ignorant like “Perry will implode like The Donald.” shows how little you actually know about the subject.”
    Time will tell!

  31. Who Let the Donks Out says:

    “So your back-up to Pamela Geller’s accusations is linking to Pamela Geller’s post?”
    That link was to a response to the countercontempt piece you linked. It also explains how to find the cached version of the curriculum since the original has been deleted. So now people can read the article you linked, and a response to it, and the original source documents describing the curriculum Perry helped to get into Texas schools, and make up their own minds … after seeing both sides of the story AND the original documents this is all about.
    I don’t think anyone who reads those curriculum documents will have any doubts about why they were removed from the web site.

  32. unseen says:

    dan,
    As a strong supporter of Gov Palin’s I’ll be the first to say you have not been in “Palin’s camp” in the past You have written some negative pieces about GOv Palin like during her skipping the CPAC. That being said you have IMO always been fair in writing what you think not what you think others want you to say. So those that are saying you have always been or even are a Palin supporter now have not been paying attention. When you think Palin does well you write about it and also when you think she doesn’t. i enjoyed this post and hope what you are beginning to see continues. It is what I have seen for years and why I decided to become such a strong supporter Of Gov Palin’s.

  33. Bill589 says:

    We’ll see what happens when Palin gets in. She has plenty of ‘negatives’ but they are all based on lies. The more truth people know about Palin, the more she is liked. This is the opposite for most of her opponents. (Especially Obama.)
    In time we’ll know about Perry too. Sarah has been vetted and attacked for three years – Rick less than three weeks. If he can stand up to the media, maybe he has a chance. We already know Sarah can.

  34. sickofrinos says:

    If palin wins the presidency, will this be the lefts 9-11? I want her to run just to see the drive-by-medias
    heads explode. Whatever happens- Fresh Water and Seeds will be important. Along with AMMO.

  35. D. says:

    IMO – Perry is a Conservative In Name Only (CINO)
    Palin is a Conservative
    Therefore, I support Palin because I want the real deal; a Rolex, not a Romex.

  36. m says:

    I rather support Gov. Rick Perry of Texas for President. Perry is a real true conservative. Not Palin!

  37. Ragspierre says:

    Reading this nonsense…and, yes, that includes Dan’s nonsense…it really funny.
    See, I have watched Palin and Perry at the same event. Unless they are unusually skillful players of political pantomime, they genuinely like and support each other.
    Palin was certainly unabashed in her praise of Perry, and vise versa.

  38. fb274 says:

    Someone needs to do a bit of research on Rick Perry. I’ll pat your back for $$$$$$ donated to my pac/campaign. EXECUTIVE ORDER mandating giving Gardisil to girls in the 6th grade thru high school because of a lobbyist—no independent investigation of the drug. Selling Texas to foreign entities for Toll Roads. Believes in Eminent Domain—-GOVERNMENT has the right to take personal property when it wants, regardless of use. This was his thinking concerning the Trans-Texas Corridors –The hell with property owners rights. BIGGER spender per term than Geo. Bush. Perry is the same type RINO as currently in DC. The AP needs to send their ‘fact checkers’ to scour through his book. They did Palins! He is as ego driven as Obama. Research, research, research!

  39. Elmo says:

    Me, been as strong a defender of Ms. Sarah, as anyone (go ‘head, check threads here … feel free). Three years running (belleee dat).
    But I’ll not condone bullsh*t. Sorry. Ain’ nevvah goin happen. Sarah be brimming with it now … just another political animal. Nothing more. Nothing less.
    Any of the arsemonkeys gumming up the works now (Perry), or in future Palin (?). Can go f*ck themselves. Yes, should crappy/mediocre get the nomination again? They will have my vote. Of course. Beyond that?
    There ain’t no brass out there. Nothing dangling. Cept the pair Bachmann’s got. The only fookin pair (stand back). The rest, can’t even spell leadership [how's that bantustan construction thingee going there elmo? :-) ]. Y’all get lathered up over ‘pragmatic’ all you want. I’ll pass. Keep your triangulators too.
    And no, I didn’t read the thread [shoot me (hey, I haven't had breakfast yet)].

  40. Ragspierre says:

    Wow, fb…YOU are the one who needs to do some research. What a load of crap.
    Everybody “believes” in eminent domain, since it is, and has been, the law of the land since the nation became a nation, and is the ONLY way we got railroads, highways, and utilities. One thing NOBODY thinks about is how much land the ROW for all the stuff that was included in the TTC would gobble up when they are built piece-meal. Or how many Texans will be killed on our very dangerous and congested stretches of hiway, like I-35 between San Antonio and Austin.
    The partnership who offered to put their money in the TTC was made up of a Spanish company and a TEXAS company (Zachery). And, like I’ve pointed out here many times, the British were the single biggest investor in American railroads during their development. Oh nos….!!! The deal would have paid Texas a LOT of money over time.
    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/275294/perry-s-patronage-problem-daniel-foster?page=2
    Is a good piece rebutting the “Perry crony” crap. Note the watchdog comments especially.
    And, again, the people who are willing to say that Perry sold out for $6,000 on the Guardasil EO, and that he had no motive to prevent cancer in young women, just amaze me.

  41. Carmelo Junior says:

    Perry will be doing good in national polls but he will not win Iowa or New Hamphire. His accent will doom him in the north and his secessionist stances is a NO GO. He should inplode as soon as Palin gets in.

  42. Huey says:

    Rags: To be fair, what he actually said was: “GOVERNMENT has the right to take personal property when it wants, regardless of use.” I’m sure that you agree that the qualifier “regardless of use” is an important delimiter.
    Of course, at the same time, I don’t think that there’s any legitimate question that the Corridor would fall within the “public use” requirement of the 5th Amendment.
    Not sure what difference it makes as to who got the contracts (from a Constitutional perspective) if that’s the argument being made. (Kind of difficult to follow.)
    Long ago, I predicted that Palin will get in unless Perry does, in which case she would endorse and campaign for him.
    Dunno now. The next month will be interesting.

  43. Ragspierre says:

    Specifically, the Gallup survey shows that, among Republican voters without a college degree, Perry tops the field with 27%, followed by Romney with 15%, Ron Paul with 14% and Michele Bachmann with 11 percent. Among Republican voters with at least a four-year college degree, Perry has rocketed to the top with 33.4%, dwarfing Romney’s 21 percent, Paul’s 10 percent, and Bachmann’s 9 percent.
    Looking at the results by income tell the same story. Perry leads Romney by at least 10 percentage points among voters in all four income categories Gallup reported. Among Republicans earning between $2,000 and $5,000 monthly, Perry leads by 29% to 18%: among those earning $7,500 per month or more, Perry maintains a 31% to 22% advantage.
    http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2011/08/perry-threatens.php#more
    Dunno, as I could not get to the Gallup internal stuff, but I seriously doubt they polled just in places where people have “accents”. Note they say they polled Republicans and Republican-leaning independents.
    If voters are stupid enough to vote by “accents”, well…we’re doomed. Palin has a pronounced accent, as does Bachmann, as does Cain.
    Jeeesh…

  44. Ragspierre says:

    “GOVERNMENT has the right to take personal property when it wants, regardless of use.”
    Which I don’t think is a Perry position at all, though there have been some Kelo-like takings in Texas.
    Since then, there have been several attempts to kill that prospect.
    http://www.docstoc.com/docs/25505078/How-to-Fix-Texas-Kelo-Problem
    Our state constitution seems clear enough on this, but a strong, clear law would be a good idea.
    Perry called it an “emergency issue” in our most recent legislative session, if that tells you anything about his position.

  45. Ragspierre says:

    Kinky Friedman once ran against Rick Perry for the Texas governorship. So would the singer and writer vote for him for president? Hell, yes! The world’s most famous Jewish cowboy on why he wants to live in Rick Perry’s America.
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/24/kinky-friedman-rick-perry-s-got-my-vote.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28The+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29
    Hey, he has the Kinky block…
    Worth reading.

  46. Elmo says:

    Posted by: Jim | Wednesday, August 24, 2011 at 11:05 PM
    “Of course, you could always stay home and ensure that Obama gets a second term instead because Obama’s supporters are going to go to the polls in 2012 one way or the other. Your choice.”
    ————————————–
    Drive by snark/plink:
    Wow. Impressive.
    FOR THE LAST F*CKING TIME …
    He isn’t going to be reelected [and it will be the dem's staying home, IN RECORD NUMBERS (idiot)].
    It doesn’t make ANY difference who the candidate is. Zip. Zero. Nada. Stick to your principles people. Don’t budge. Are you men/women? Or are you nothing but a bunch of squishes? The devil be coming round with offers. Try not to be tempted.
    Vote your heart? Vote your mind? But do not throw your primary vote away on pragmatism, electability, or any other f*cking bullsh*t [said the registered dem (yeah, eight years in, I gotta fix that :-) ].

  47. Elmo says:

    Still in car, drivin’ by, snarkin’ …
    ————————————-
    You have a choice between Romney, Perry and Obama.
    That’s reality.
    Posted by: Jim | Wednesday, August 24, 2011 at 11:56 PM
    ———————————-
    Still laughing …..

  48. Raymond says:

    I will not write long sentences. This is just smart brief ones: THE 2012 GOP TICKET WILL EITHER BE PALIN/PERRY, OR PERRY/PALIN!!! Palin and Perry have both done deal already…and they are aligned best of friends!!!

  49. A Stephens says:

    For the life of me i don’t get it. I’m a Palin guy. I hope she runs, I’m figuring she will, and I plan to work my ass off for her when she does. But if she doesn’t, or if she loses the nomination bid to Perry, I will sit front row with a sh*t eating grin while RP absolutely destroys Erkel in the general.
    We can’t go wrong with either Palin or Perry. Supporters of each will point out deficiencies of the other. Okay, let’s just agree that there are no perfect candidates, move beyond the bickering, get ready to close ranks, and show this evil progressive cabal with their chosen boy king at the throne, just what America stands for and believes in. And it ain’t nothing that they’re peddling.

  50. Jim says:

    A. Stephens -
    I like the cut of your jib. That’s exactly the right attitude: support your candidate of choice, but remember that the TRUE opponent is Obama.
    I’m not a fan of Romney AT ALL. But if he’s the nominee, then I’ll work my arse off to get him elected. Hell, if a random name out of the phone book winds up with the nomination, I’ll do the same.
    Skirmishing between friends (and we need to remember that – at the end of the day – we are) is one thing, but there’s a helluva lot worse waiting for us on the other side of that wall.
    That’s why I have so little patience for the half-truths and innuendo attacks on friendly targets. If you have a LEGITIMATE beef which you can back up with actual, you know, FACTS, then let’s have that discussion. But, we also have to realize that NO candidate – not Perry, not Palin – is perfect. There will ALWAYS be things with which we disagree with them about. That’s what happens when you have an election: it’s ALWAYS a choice of the least bad option.
    Pretending that this election is any different in that respect from every other election ever held in this country is ridiculous. The difference between this election and others is that this time, our future as the undisputed leader of the free world – both economically and militarily – really IS on the line. Refusing to support the Republican candidate – whoever that turns out to be – IS a de facto vote for a second Obama term.
    I’m not a Republican Party apologist, and I believe that weak candidates should be primaried whenever possible. But that’s what this whole GOP nomination process is about: finding the most conservative candidate who is ACTUALLY RUNNING and who can ACTUALLY WIN a general election. Fight like hell for your favorite candidate, but remember that you should do it honestly, that we are all friends, and that the real fight is in November 2012.

  51. Huey says:

    A Stephens / Jim : Well said! (Waiting for Elmo explosion…)

  52. victoria_29 says:

    I just want a promise from all palin cult members & palin that she will abide by 3 strikes your out & will take her fake self back to anywhere she choose but shut the hell up. And no not all of it is lies, FACT Palin has a history of never finishing what she starts-example 1 took 6 colleges-6 of them mind you for a bachelor’s degree-she was not married, did not have kids or other obligations, she just couldn’t seem to git it done. First job wow lasted a few months, quit. Impressive. Parenting-yeah right won’t even go there. Lt Gov-LOST, pay off with position-quit again, elected Gov – quit again. Gee do we see a pattern. Yes, it is much harder to govern where you actually accountable than sit on twitter & facebook & post things others write for you. Then we have the VP debates & her wanting to expand federal funding of education (& their reach) & NCLB. Also, there is the issue of her support for TARP (& please she defended this again in the book she paid someone to write for her) & support for Cap & Trade-doubt me listen to the debate. Then we have her inability to think on the fly-I mean come on how hard is it to name something you read…oh that is right blame Couric (who I dislike) for Palin not being able to name anything-it was obviously a trick question. She has no legislative accomplishments, did nothing for Pro-Life when in office-well unless you count requiring women to pay for rape kits (& that is a fact look it up). She has no history of creating jobs. Only accomplishment was blackmailing a private company (wow that is conservative). Then there is the Bridge to No Where she ran on for Gov, but later flipped on, but what happened to the money????? did she return it like a Conservative would??? Nope nope nope spent it. Her family & their antics…don’t even go there. In 2 yrs (& this was PRIOR to McCain picking her so you can NOT blame the media) she had more ethic complaints & lawsuits filed against her than 48 other Governors in 4 year terms. Now that is telling….did she fight them..nope she quit.

  53. Huey says:

    victoria_29:
    Yawn.

  54. gary gulrud says:

    Thanks for the post Dan, and thank you to all for a spririted, informed discussion.
    I would like to see, in coming debates, offered by any candidate I would prefer for nomination:
    Repeal of Obamacare, tax and tort reform, return(not sale) of Federal lands to the States, elimination 90% of the employees and all function(especially delegated regulatory authority) beyond data mining of the Depts. of Education, Energy, the EPA and the FCC, reorganization of the SEC replacing 90% of its lawyers with accountants, repeal of the Homeland Security act, across-the-board layoffs of Federal employees, and a public commitment to reverse every EO authored during the current administration Jan. 20, 2013.
    I’d also like to see any such candidate sponsor, endorse, fund and recruit candidates for Senate who support my agenda.
    I don’t want to hear another word about entitlement reform until all the ‘services’ the SS lock box IOUs were wasted on are eliminated.
    If one finds these requirements for support unrealistic, Nuts.

  55. Elmo says:

    Zzzz Zzzz
    I feel pretty … oh so pretty/I spank it, therefore eyeam.
    Denn again … I see you gott’s teengs well in hand Hubert … http://tinyurl.com/34xnec
    Carry on

  56. The Moderate Way is the Right Way says:

    Rudy Giuliani is going to come in and whup the pants off both Palin and Perry. I hope so, at least. When the race is down to Obammy and Perry/Palin, Obammy will win. But a great moderate like Rudy will siphon off enough Democrat votes to win.
    And I know all of your idiotic “RINO”, and “moderates are liberals” rhetoric already, so stuff it. God, if only you could see yourselves
    GO RUDY!!!!!!!!!

  57. Susan Salisbury says:

    Okay, so here is my paranoid take on the situation– the establishment elites of both parties are terrified of a Palin candidacy. There are Republicans in Alaska wearing orange jump suits in federal prison up there because of ethics violations. The elites keep throwing us someone they think they can control– first Romney then Trump, then Bachman now Perry and all of them being the Not Palin candidate. Once she is in the race the dynamics will change greatly. There is no question that delay has lost her some support, but support in the Republican party is still very fluid.

  58. Ragspierre says:

    It looks like Bad Luck Barry MAY be about to get his own Katrina.
    All along the Eastern Seaboard.
    Will it be enough to please the Krazy Paul Krugman…???

  59. gary gulrud says:

    “Among Republican voters with at least a four-year college degree, Perry has rocketed to the top with 33.4%,..among those earning $7,500 per month or more, Perry maintains a 31% to 22% advantage.”
    I seem to recall some scoffing at the surmise that the Elites would desert Mitty for Good Hair presently as the Establishment play.
    “we are all friends,”
    We are not. Rove, Buchanan, Robertson, Frum, Cornyn, McConnell, Ziegler,…, are not my friends nor I theirs and no prospect exists for change.

  60. Ragspierre says:

    “But a great moderate…”
    A definitive oxymoronic statement.

  61. Elmo says:

    Me, I likes the Rudy. Bbbbut that WAS then.
    THIS … is now (and I’m more Con than Neo these days). Nice guys? Fine (just fine) for neighbors, and such (it’s thuh titanium peeps).
    http://anechoicroom.blogspot.com/2008/01/destruction-of-rudy-g.html

  62. gary gulrud says:

    Vicky “I just want a promise from all palin cult members & palin that [they] shut the hell up.”
    Will you promise not to strut your wares on my street?

  63. Xiaoding says:

    “You have a choice between Romney, Perry and Obama.”
    You forgot “stay home”. We will, if those are the choices. Don’t give a crap if the Republicans lose, they are traitors, same as the Dems. They can both go to hell, and die.

  64. Ragspierre says:

    dingy, The Face-palm Kid…
    He and his mousey will stay home.

  65. gary gulrud says:

    “Of course, you could always stay home and ensure that Obama gets a second term []. Your choice.”
    “that’s what this whole GOP nomination process is about: finding the most conservative candidate [] who can ACTUALLY WIN a general election.”
    You are aware that this is the same argument the GOP aparatchiks pull from their nether regions every election?
    You are aware that standard procedure(not from Mav or Mitty but they’re dog food on the hoof) for the candidate to stake out a conservative position inorder to win nomination and drift to the left B4 Nov.
    Please be advised a good number of us no longer listen to this horsesh*t.

  66. Dinah says:

    Vivky, since you seem to be such a historian when it comes to Palin, can you enlighten us mere mortals as to what ethics complaints were filed BEFORE she was tapped for the VP position by McCain? All of the ethics complaints (except for Troopergate, in which she was found not to have done anything wrong) came about AFTER she returned to Alaska.

  67. Ragspierre says:

    So would I support Rick Perry for president? Hell, yes! As the last nail that hasn’t been hammered down in this country, I agree with Rick that there are already too damn many laws, taxes, regulations, panels, committees, and bureaucrats. While Obama is busy putting the hyphen between “anal” and “retentive” Rick will be rolling up his sleeves and getting to work.
    and…
    These days, of course, I would support Charlie Sheen over Obama. Obama has done for the economy what pantyhose did for foreplay.
    –Kinky Friedman
    His whole piece is a hoot…!!!

  68. Blackwater says:

    Attention JIM,
    I bought Perry’s book, Fed Up. It’s good. Problem is, Perry didn’t mean a friggin’ word of it!
    His campaign is running away from the book as fast as they can.
    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/08/18/perry-is-less-fed-up-over-social-security/
    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/177945-perry-retreats-again-from-statements-made-in-book?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter#.TlQXsrJROQ4.twitter
    I’m a life long Texan and know just exactly what a corrupt crony capitalist he is. He will never be our nominee, or President, EVER.

  69. The Moderate Way is the Right Way says:

    Hahah! Rudy or any moderate will save conservatism!
    Just go ahead and elect a Perry or Palin (you won’t — come November 2012 there is no WAY the country will elect either of these cats, polls today be damned). Their government would make the US so out-of-sync with the the world economy that it would be catastrophic for the US, and we’d turn around and elect a liberal like Obama again.
    A moderate is this country’s only hope.
    You right wing idealist wackos remind me of communists with your pie-in-the-sky belief that a system that has never existed before will actually work!
    And I’m right.

  70. Tennwriter says:

    A potted plant of poison ivy with the letter ‘R’ magic markered to it in Sanskrit could beat Obama.
    Elmo is right that it is time to ‘vote for your conscience’.
    Forget electability.
    So, who is best…Palin, then Bachmann, then Rick Santorum, then Rick Perry….
    Giuliani, well, I’d vote for him like I might not for Romney, and Giuliani would be a good choice for an AG.
    Jim is wrong when he says its Perry, Romney, or Obama. This line of arguement needs to be abandoned post haste as many conservatives will find it insulting.

  71. Ricky says:

    “Elmo is right that it is time to ‘vote for your conscience’.”
    My conscience says Palin, Palin, Palin. It is well documented (for those who care to research her record)that she is someone who does what she says. She is a woman of her word.
    I would love me some Rudy for VP. Mark Davis made the case for him today, and confirmed everything I believe about Rudy.
    If I must, I think I can live with Perry, but I agree with Dan on Perry vs. Palin. For some reason I don’t like the idea of a Palin/Perry or Perry/Palin ticket…
    Now Dan had been very critical of Palin in the past, he will be again in the future. That is a very good thing. Vet ‘em all the same, there is too much at stake, no politician deserves to be given a pass.

  72. David R. Graham says:

    “Is there any doubt in your mind that he would aggressively pursue any terrorist simply because they were Muslims?”
    Yes. Muslim = totalitarian = terrorist. The totality of circumstances overwhelmingly supports this assessment and Perry doesn’t grasp that fact. He’s led around by the nose by those 5th Columnists called “Muslims.” He appears to believe their lies. “Islam” is the only “religion” that subsidizes lying as a theological principle.
    “Did George W. Bush – who peppered every speech about terrorism with talking points about how we weren’t at war with Islam – fail to prosecute the War on Terror?”
    Yes. He didn’t remove and replace Famiglia Saud with Heshemites, Famiglia Assad also with Hashemites and the dear boys at Qom with Baha’is. Saud, Assad and the dear boys at Qom are the next principal state sponsors of terrorism by proxy (e.g., AQ, Taliban, Famiglia Haqqani) after Iraq under Saddam Hussein, Russia and China.
    GWB’s and Rove’s decision not to nullify leftists’ lies about no WMDs in Iraq got BHO elected. Thank the RINOs for the crisis that has overtaken the United States. Lack of moral courage has bitter consequences.
    “Jim” is a moby.
    Dan’s point is valid and governing. On the economy, the Republican old-guard (Bush, Perry, Romney, McCain, etc.) is RINO, supports “the state should solve your problems” approach to elections and governance. See Powerline for exposition by the Republican old guard (also, for a view of lawyers protecting their rice bowls). On foreign policy, the Republican old guard, in conformity with Democrats, turns a blind eye, except in the case of Saddam Hussein, to the several state sponsors of terrorism (mostly by proxies) against the USA and Europe. To include state-sponsors of conquest of the USA by civilian border overrunning and drug trafficking.
    GWB harmed GWOT and the USA more than he helped it.
    “Jim” is a moby.

  73. Sandy says:

    I support Hatch too. He hasn’t been right on everything, but who is except Obama. He is solid on many conservative issues.

  74. gary gulrud says:

    I’m with Ricky and Graham. Perry is a hardscrabble Bush, less likely to be owned by TPTB and bound, to some degree, by his contrarian posturing but ‘Booosh III’ is going to be a headwind.
    I do look forward to his flogging Mitty bloody and senseless.
    When Palin gets in we’ll see some reversal of fortunes, not like the Perry move past Romney, but Perry/Palin/Bachmann/Cain will poll 75% between them.
    Rove will be incandescent.
    I am positively giddy we get a Conservative POTUS. If Huntsman goes third party he and Nor Laup will split the nutjob vote, maybe 4% total. Rand has no opening to receive the baton from Pops.
    Trumka has cut Urkel and the Dimmis loose, deliciously portended by a DC earthquake and East coast hurricane.
    Tomorrow Bureau of Economic Affairs is plumped to revise Q2 down from 1.3% to under 1%. Bennie loaned Europe another $500 Billion this week, the Greeks got no bids for their 2-year notes at 46% interest, and Five of Buffett’s Billions got Bank of America a dollar or two on their stock price.
    Keep your head on a swivel, an eye peeled for jumpers.

  75. Joy D. Brower says:

    Ouch!! Some of the remarks against Palin on this comment board cudda come right out of the DNC handbook!! And quoting Debbie Schlussel (who, of late, has become seriously unhinged – thus blowing whatever credibility and respect she once – briefly – had!) is quoting a very bad, bitchy source who has a hissy fit whenever she hears the name, “Sarah Palin!” Goodbye, Debbie, you’re pretty much toast… (but sure hope you like crow – ’cause you’ll have plenty of that come Nov. 2012!)
    As for a Rich & Sarah Show, they’ve been gubernatorial allies, of course, and she eagerly endorsed him over the Establishment RINO Hutchinson; but now that they’re just about to face off in the GOP primaries, all bets are off! And, IMO, she WILL announce – but not on Sept 3, but more likely later in the month as, she says, at a “stand-alone” event – NOT a pre-planned Tea Party. But expect a Wisconsin speech – times 10! – in Indianola on the 3rd!!
    BTW, those of us who have been watching SUPER closely as, admittedly, strong “Palinistas,” know that she’s really been running since 2008; but her own “campaign” mode/calendar/agenda/strategy was kicked off when she delivered her resignation speech in 2009. None of us, however, have a crystal ball, so we can only speculate from here on in. But one thing is certain: Our faith in her and her absolutely declaring as a candidate sometime next month!

  76. Joy D. Brower says:

    I’m not sure how many on this blog site are aware of one VERY important factor: Palin’s fan base, now being organized into Organize4Palin (O4P) statewide organizations in nearly 40 states – and counting – are starting to number in the 10s of thousands and, it’s predicted (by the Super Palinista, Peter Singleton in Iowa, himself), in the 100s of thousands by the time she formally announces. IOW, her base of ORGANIZED volunteers is already larger and more eager than those of any of the other candidates and, one might argue, than those of ALL the other wannabees put together!!
    And, when the announcement is made, the MONEY will start to flow/flood in from the BIG donors (can you say, Koch Brothers?) as well as a gazillion eager fans willing to give their relatively modest “all!”
    Of course, only time will tell…

  77. gary gulrud says:

    Back in the tenure of Slick Willie we saw a sea change in Truthiness from every quarter. The Government has always lied “in our best interests” but lying seemed to gain acceptance in all quarters to a degree I’d not noticed before.
    Since the 2010 election I’ve been especially disappointed in Rasmussen. He’s been pegging the Dimmi vote 5% high. And no polling outfit has done a thing to properly poll Independents, 60% of whom are to the right of Republicans.
    His recent Urkel beats Palin 50% to 33% poll was especially egregious. The Obots are demoralized and it will only get worse. He cannot break 43% against anyone, 57% of registered voters will not vote for Il Douche.
    The result means roughly half opposed to Urkel would stay home. Rasmussen cannot be that incompetent, its too obvious an error and cannot follow from oversampling.

  78. Jacksonian Libertarian says:

    Someone recently wrote that a candidate shouldn’t have to move to the base during the primary, and then move to the center during the general, but should already be the base, so that they are trusted when they move to the center in the general. Perry has not been indentified with the TEA Party the way Sarah Palin has been, she gave monetary support and she campaigned all over in 2010 helping the TEA Party to a historic victory (where was Perry then?). It is also true that she is the most heavily vetted candidate in history, if there was a skelton in the closet the lame stream media would have found it (they went through every email she had as governor and all they found was that she worked hard), I doubt we’ve seen Perry’s dirty laundry yet. I think Palin polls about where Reagan was polling at this time in the election cycle, and I feel confident that if nominated she would deliver a mandate enforcing landslide that would make Reagan proud.

  79. Sonny Dee says:

    I love this article Mr Dan Reihl.. as you have so succinctly gotten the Palin persona, and her political prowess, as a Politician of the People.
    This crusade war waged against Gov. Palin, is the crusade war waged against the very core and existence of America, as it was founded 235 years ago.. and is why we must not Fail, and why we must not fail Gov. Palin, period. as she is the embodiment of our very survival.!! 
    Gov. Palin is a Constitutional Conservative Ronald Reagan Republican.. and she is the undeniable heir to the Ronald Reagan mantle.. and why, not because she proclaimed it so, or I, or any Tea Party Patriot claimed her to be.. It’s because she has proven time and time again, with her unwaivering dedication, devotion, and adherence to the Values and Principles of Constitutional Conservatism, adherence to the laws the US Constitution, to the Founding Principles and Values, set by the Founding fathers, of limited Federal govt. powers.. ensuring Politicians, aka. elected officials, are held accountable to the people who elected them, their constituents., of putting the people first before politics.., of keeping Taxes low, and keeping the govt. out of the business of Private Capitalist Free Market Enterprise system, and so on.. It’s in her actions as evidenced by her record as the Governor of Alaska, before that, the Chairwoman of Alaska’s Oil and Gas Industry Commission & Mayor of the City of Wasilla, and so on.. This is her Ronald Reagan Political Policy Doctrine- Constitutional Conservative Leadership, and is why she embodies the spirit of Ronald Reagan, and all that he was.. Gov. Palin is now in her own right, as a Reagan Constitutional Conservative woman, and will be the first female and 45th U.S. President of the United States of America. And with a Constitutional Conservative Ronald Regan President Palin, at the helm of America for 2 Terms, we can be assured, that the Obama Liberal Socialist-Marxist fascist machinery, will be completely dismantled, and America will once against be restored to it’s original Foundation !!