Two Obama Comments May Cost Him Health Care Debate

By
February 25, 2010

As Republicans frame the debate over health care as a matter of choice, do people want the government to decide their health care choices, or would they rather be free to make those choices themselves, Barrack Obama seemed to become testy twice during the early debate.

Any perceived arrogance around Obama's remarks below could serve to reinforce the notion that a government with too much power is often unpleasant and more self-serving, than what the Democrats would want people to believe. In fact, as usual, they used much of their time to tell tales of woe, invoking some number of unknown citizens early on.

Obama's behavior stood in stark contrast to the narrative they were attempting to weave. In the end, it may well be that Obama's own arrogance helps to do in his desire to force through major health care reform the people don't seem to want as it is.

Via Twitter:

Obama to McCain at Health Care Summit: "We're not campaigning here. The election is over."

Video via RCP:

Obama At Health Care Summit: "I Don't Count My Time Because I'm The President"

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Comments:
  1. cranky-d says:

    I’m not sure if you know this or not, but Obama is the president. Just trying to make sure we’re all up to speed.

  2. Jim B says:

    Am I alone in being annoyed at the never-ending recitation of anecdotes? Do people have insurance problems? Are there problems in the system? Yeah. We get it. You’re not impressing me with your side stories, and you’re not moving the debate either way.
    If you have a point to make. Make it. If you don’t, just shut up. If I wanted story time, I could have picked up a book instead.

  3. mark l. says:

    http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=obama+campaign+mode&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&fp=baa94940edcea411
    *Is Obama In Permanent Campaign Mode? – Political Hotsheet – CBS News
    Apr 30, 2009
    *Obama in campaign mode on stimulus – Carol E. Lee – POLITICO.com
    Feb 9, 2009
    *Barack Obama in Campaign Mode – Video Library – The New York Times
    Feb 10, 2009
    I imagine that the 800 lb gorilla for obama is that his party is in perpetual campaign mode. Still trying to reconcile his stated belief that the ‘gop offers no ideas’, with his appearance at this summit. apparently obama believes his own ‘healthcare campaign’ talking points.

  4. mark l. says:

    i can appreciate the desire of obama to avoid being tied to a campaign mode…
    “I will not raise taxes on people making less than 250k”.

  5. Meadow says:

    Since BO called this ‘summit’, he needs to shut up and LISTEN! He ignores the GOP speakers and kowtows to the dems.
    His comment to McCain smacks of stupidity and elitism, since he (BO) has not stopped campaigning.
    CliftonB over at Another Black Conservative has posted an interesting thought: http://anotherblackconservative.blogspot.com/2010/02/obamacare-30.html

  6. Lala says:

    http://www.spectator.org puts it this way
    After Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell noted that Democrats’ opening statements had lasted twice as long as Republicans, President Obama responded that his time shouldn’t count in the calculation. “There was an imbalance in the opening statements, because I’m the President,” Obama declared. “And I didn’t count my time in terms of dividing it evenly.”

  7. Anon says:

    Anecdotes is all the Democrats have, they’ve been relying on sob stories to get their bad policies enacted for 50 years, why should they stop now?
    They don’t have any hard data that supports any of their contentions, so they go for emotion, liberals always do, its the emotion that keeps them going.
    But don’t underestimate how much the media wants to help Obama, they will paint this as a win for him no matter what kind of arrogant crap he pulls.

  8. swift boater says:

    You know, for every story that the Dems bring in castigating “Big Insurance”, the Republicans can bring in ten tales to destroy gov’t run healthcare, whether it be Medicare or the VA.
    Make no mistake about it, I am sure the overwhelming majority of those employed by both are hard working professionals who every day go to work hoping to make a positive difference in people’s lives. But the gov’t is not the best place to make healthcare decisions and policies. I am sure Dr’s with decades worth of education on health related issues can do that infinitely better than a public policy major with political connections to thank for his job.

  9. Calypso Jones says:

    Obama Anecdote: His self employed momma’s unreliable health insurance. I can tell you from having experience in the health insurance industry PROBABLY the reason Mrs. Soetero’s health insurance was UNreliable was because she was INCONSISTENT in paying her premiums. THEN, when all of a suddent, she finds she needs the health coverage she’s arguing with the health insurance company cause she wants them to cover her ANYWAY. See it all the time.

  10. mark l. says:

    “They don’t have any hard data that supports any of their contentions, so they go for emotion,”
    the ray smith/harkin/buffalo center story was either vetted heavily to be true, or this guy is just another dem plant.
    i’d imagine that if his bills are true, he’d be below the poverty line: hello s-chip. but then he speaks of insurance for “4″…
    4 what?
    the two adults part is easy, and I kinda think that if the other two were disabled adults or children, the point would have been made explicitly.
    (the guy is 57 years old, with minors?)

  11. Mike2Cents says:

    Admittedly, I’m on the side of reform here…but I’m aware how Obama can make some bad moves, come off badly, and sometimes not help the cause.
    I have not been looking forward to this ‘summit’ for those reasons.
    That didn’t happen today. Whatever the ‘results’ of this meeting are, Obama did an excellent job in calling out the Repubs talking points and stunts (Cantor with his big pile of paper..oh, no..a big pile of paper…it must be baaaad).
    This was the the pendulum swinging back a little. I think Obama knew it would help his case if he could drag these guys and their arguments into a setting where it wasn’t just a podium at a tea party event.
    Repubs were right to see all this as a set-up.

  12. mark l. says:

    sorry mike-
    there were two competing stories…
    the summit, and the polls of the healthcare plan.
    “This was the the pendulum swinging back a little.”
    the numbers from fox and cnn are stark, the president would have to double his support for the bill to be popular. The only thing that comes close the thought of passing the bill on reconciliation, would have been going to war with iraq, using reconciliation.
    pendulum?
    think of it as more like a rock.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus

  13. Mike2Cents says:

    Mark,
    Really…a Wiki link for Sisyphus?. You think that little of me?
    Yes, it is an uphill battle. And the polls are more reflective of the way questions are phrased than anything else.
    How would folks answer ‘Are you happy with skyrocketing premiums for less care in the face of breathtaking profits for the insurance companies?’
    How would you answer that one, Mark?
    My guess is with another question. Or perhaps refer to another myth…
    My point is basically that the game is back on.
    The repubs are being forced to say something besides ‘no’.
    You really think Obama is playing for 100% here?
    Of course not.

  14. Obots are dumber than a box of rocks says:

    That didn’t happen today. Whatever the ‘results’ of this meeting are, Obama did an excellent job in calling out the Repubs talking points and stunts (Cantor with his big pile of paper..oh, no..a big pile of paper…it must be baaaad).
    This was the the pendulum swinging back a little.
    Posted by: Mike2Cents | Thursday, February 25, 2010 at 05:09 PM
    Bwhahahahah, Poor “mike” the Obot. America got to see a man child act out and have hissy fits today. When your world crumbles under the delusion of “hope and change” we will laugh and laugh all the day long!

  15. Obots are dumber than a box of rocks says:

    You know the term Sudden Jihad Syndrome? Meet Sudden Obama Syndrome.
    Definition: Obama supporters face reality and realize there is no hope and change.
    #1 Amy Bishop
    #2 Joe Stack
    #3 TBD

  16. Mike2Cents says:

    I just gotta say – and I know it might be some sort of accepted blogging speech..
    But that ‘Bwhahahahah’ thing always sounds so….so desperate.
    What’s next…’I know you are but what am I?’.

  17. mark l. says:

    the reconciliation move is a rubicon that will completely destroy the democrat party.
    once the wh crosses, the libs in their party will consider it a permanently, useful tool.
    I’m trying to imagine the outcome of a scotus justice dying early in the summer, and the wh reflexively trying to appoint a lib with a really bad track record. If the wh is unwilling to use reconcilation again…
    the sad part is that they will use it repeatedly, until they are voted out.

  18. Obots dumber than a box of rocks says:

    Actually my little Obot friend, what sounds desperate is you defending Obama today. His performance was petulant, arrogant and insulting. Try harder to keep up, mmmkkay? Watch the polls in the coming days. Can you say nose dive.
    By the way, If Obama is so smart and so well spoken, why did he today act like there was not even a camera on? Hmmm? Hint: It’s called narcissism.

  19. “How would folks answer ‘Are you happy with skyrocketing premiums for less care in the face of breathtaking profits for the insurance companies?’”
    I think the correct answer is, “What exactly constitutes ‘breathtaking’”?
    Quick quiz: What do these enterprises have in common? Farm and construction machinery, Tupperware, the railroads, Hershey sweets, Yum food brands and Yahoo? Answer: They’re all more profitable than the health insurance industry. In the health care debate, Democrats and their allies have gone after insurance companies as rapacious profiteers making “immoral” and “obscene” returns while “the bodies pile up.”
    Ledgers tell a different reality. Health insurance profit margins typically run about 6 percent, give or take a point or two. That’s anemic compared with other forms of insurance and a broad array of industries, even some beleaguered ones.
    Profits barely exceeded 2 percent of revenues in the latest annual measure. This partly explains why the credit ratings of some of the largest insurers were downgraded to negative from stable heading into this year, as investors were warned of a stagnant if not shrinking market for private plans.”
    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/10/25/ap-finally-reports-on-insurance-industrys-thin-margins/
    A better question, Mike2Cents; since the Obama Party believes a 6% profit margin is rapacious, evil, and should be destroyed by government action, when will you be taking action against trial lawyers, whose profit margins are nearly twice that?

  20. Old Trooper says:

    Mike2Cents, If reconciliation is the path the Dems choose, all of the Amendments that THEY refused to consider will be on the table. I can’t wait for that.

  21. Also, the rest of America got to see the Obama Party and Barack Obama’s habits of completely contradicting themselves.
    “3:05 p.m.: Obama clarifies that cuts would apply to Medicare Advantage, an enhanced Medicare benefits program.
    4:58 p.m.: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi…..
    She also denies Rep. Dave Camp’s claim that Medicare cuts would cut benefits for seniors.”
    Obama says that Medicare benefits are being cut; two hours later, Nancy Pelosi says that no Medicare benefits are being cut.
    And how many million uninsured are there, given that Obama bounced between 27 million, 30 million, and 40 million? Is he just making numbers up?
    And why is Obama afraid of actually seeing all 2700 pages of the Senate bill? Can’t he defend them? Is he afraid of showing just how thick this is? Does he not want to admit he hasn’t read it?

  22. KingShamus says:

    I like Mike2Cents thinking Obama won this circus sideshow nonsense.
    It’s adorable.

  23. Obots are dumber than rocks says:

    How bad was Obama today. Don’t listen to Fox News,snicker, listen to the “cheer Leaders” of Obama.
    snip:
    CNN’s David Gergen:
    The folks in the White House just must be kicking themselves right now. They thought that coming out of Baltimore when the President went in and was mesmerizing and commanding in front of the House Republicans that he could do that again here today. That would revive health care and would change the public opinion about their health care bill and they can go on to victory. Just the opposite has happened
    CNN’s Gloria Borger:
    The Republicans have been very effective today. They really did come to play. They were very smart.
    They took on the substance of a very complex issue. … But they really stuck to the substance of this issue and tried to get to the heart of it and I think did a very good job.
    They came in with a plan. They mapped it out.
    CNN’s Wolf Blitzer:
    It looks like the Republicans certainly showed up ready to play.
    The Hill’s A.B. Stoddard:
    I think we need to start out by acknowledging Republicans brought their ‘A Team.’ They had doctors knowledgeable about the system, they brought substance to the table, and they, I thought, expressed interest in the reform. I thought in the lecture from Senator John McCain and on the issue of transparency, I thought today the Democrats were pretty much on their knees.
    link: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/02/025683.php
    Oh my. oh my, what will the Obots do. Snicker, snort

  24. Obots are dumber than rocks says:

    Calling “Mike no sense er 2 cents” paging Mike. Come in. Your ship is sinking.

  25. mark l. says:

    sorry mike, but imagine playing the same game with Iraq:
    we all agree saddam is bad and needs to go…but since the democrats don’t have an alternative, we go with the plan we have.
    the repeated statement of a problem, is not a justifcation for ANY solution.
    this bill has deep problems, and unlike iraq, we can’t walk away once it is in motion.
    paying 10 years of taxes to fund 6 years of a program doesn’t strike me as a positive plan. is this how we are going to fund it?
    the easier you make it to get govt health insurance, the less money will go to private insurers, who will also be funding the govt program via taxes, except for unions.
    where do i rate healthcare as a crisis?
    behind debt…as in, you can’t solve healthcare until you can resolve govt’s ability to pay for itself.
    Let me, for the moment, ‘concede’ that bush is responsible for 10 trillion of debt(actually 5.5 trillion, but numbers aside…)
    obama ends his presidency in two terms and we are 20 trillion in debt. should i be happy to have a healthcare system, which is just one more progrma that is bankrupting us?

  26. mark l. says:

    let make a simple economic/psychological observation:
    this system is designed to give free healthcare to those who can’t afford it. the problem is that affordability will be based on income. quit you job, and you have free healthcare.
    the rolls of this system will explode beyond a dems comprehension.
    there are so many tweeners-people who have enough to retire on, but not enough to cover their healthcare til they are 65. these people are the ones paying the most taxes to the govt.
    they leave their jobs, flood the system, and stop paying taxes as they have no declared income. this bill is national suicide.

  27. mark l. says:

    i could offer the hypothetical ‘fix’ of ‘means testing’, but it is a polite way of saying that while the irs can review your revenue, the govt is going to suddenly start evalauting you personal wealth. means testing for healthcare turns into means testing for social security…
    you would need an agency 10 times the size of the irs to actually monitor/enforce it.

  28. Wil says:

    And that will cost real money which the government does not have and the unions covet both in terms of membership as well as union dues. And we all know who will pay the bill, taxpayers .

  29. 5th Level Fighter says:

    “There was an imbalance in the opening statements, because I’m the President,” Obama declared. “And I didn’t count my time in terms of dividing it evenly.”
    Why should he? He is The Won™ after all.
    What will truly be pathetic is when he fails to understand the results of the 2010 midterms, and continues to act as if he is a god.

  30. mark l. says:

    “obama ends his presidency in two terms and we are 20 trillion in debt. should i be happy to have a healthcare system, which is just one more progrma that is bankrupting us?”
    to one other point…
    remember bush standing under that “mission accomplished” banner?
    IF, and I mean big “IF”, the healthcare plan passes, would I be too presumptuous to suggest that it will be a very similarly hollow victory that is celebrated?
    http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/budgetprojections.pdf
    fix this, and obama is a great president.
    add to the problem and let history give him some ‘credit’ commensurate with his spending. he will be our “biggest loser”.

  31. section9 says:

    Did you guys chase away Axelrod’s concern troll?

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  33. floria says:

    yuh,wish everyting is well.the president can solve the problem

  34. WBestPreidentEver says:

    Obama is nothing but a lowlife scumbag idiot. He was rude, hateful and refuses to listen and pretends like at times the republicans had good points.
    What a loser. He has no damn clue about the economy, heathcare or anything else he sticks his nose into. The people he apointed to help him are worse than he is and he is too dumb to realize it. He even gave himself a B+ a while back. What a f***ing joke. The man couldn’t do well as a circus as a clown.
    2012 cannot come soon enough to get this baffoon out of Office.
    I am still having a hard tiem believing people actually voted for this jerk. Boy, have we got a society of idiots.
    I hope the sane folks go to the polls this next time around and correct the problem. I know many folks that normally vote and stayed home in 2008. They were nto that fond of McCain and they sure as hell were not gonna vote for Obama. I have no clue what kind of President McCain would have been but it sure as hell couldn’t have been as bad as this jerk we have now.
    O-B-A-M-A (ONE BIG ASS MISTAKE AMERICA)!!
    And….another thing….NO SOB has the right to EVER tell someone that they cannot have a treatment because they are too old or are not worthy enough to have a life saving procedure.
    NO ONE !!!!!!!!! Has that right. The death panel clauses must go. If you folks have not “READ THE BILL” then I suggest that you do !
    Kathleen Sibilous will be ahead of a panel of folks that will review procedures suggesteed for folks by their Dr.s based on their age and state of health, etc. and will decide whether you get that heart transplant, or that liver transplant, or that knee replacement or hip replacement or that cancer treatment. YEAH..THAT;S RIGHT. IS THAT WHAT PEOPLE WANT ??? Is that right ? I don’t think so. SCREW OBAMA AND ALL HIS CRONIES.
    There will be blood in the streets if this bill is shoved down our throats. That would be sad for AMERICA.

  35. Mike2Cents says:

    You tell ‘em, WBPE!
    Such clarity…such pointed & hysterical rage. I’d like to see more of this from your side.
    We just don’t get enough.
    As for others..
    Dan here, once again is saying well ‘now’ the health care debate is over.
    Hasn’t said that before…right?
    There will be health care reform.
    There will also be some tort reform.
    There will not be nothing…and you should hope a little less for that.

  36. mark l. says:

    i’ve been poo-poohing the idea that people are angry, but it is going to be problem, soon.
    if the wh proceeds with reconciliation, on an issue this large, with this low an approval, it is unlike ANY other event in modern us history.
    sorry mike, but the angst can’t neccessarily just be laid off on tea partiers. there is GROWING economic pessimism, and it is at point where the country is nearly paralyzed.
    I appreciate the idea that there is very little obama can do to address unemployment directly-the jobs bill is a bipartisan joke-but the bottom line is that obama is scaring the crap out of business and consumers-he can’t really help growth, but he can really hurt it.
    i’ve never seen a tax hike spur economic growth-quite the opposite occurs-business contracts. everybody knows that we face massive tax hikes and anticipates economic contraction. the stimulus is gone by the end of this year, and unemployment is still projected to remain unphased.
    capital gains return to their old rates in 2011…kinda wonder when the great stock wash will be occurring. everybody will get out, and pay their cap gains, which will be a bubble of boon for the 4q govt revenues. The problem is that it will mean most future cap gains will be completely dependent upon future growth.
    if, as the dems believe, the stimulus is working against our contraction, what happens when the stimulus isn’t pushing back? we aren’t going collapse, but we are going to be bouncing around 1% growth, and 2% contraction, quarter to quarter, for the rest of his first term.

  37. Anon says:

    Mike,
    The problem with the Democrats plan is that it won’t reduce premiums, how can it? It will increase premiums because it increases benefits. It does nothing to bend the cost curve and adding a few million healthy people to the rolls isn’t going to have any kind of major effect.
    What I would have liked to have seen is BC/BS in CA publicly justify their request to increase premiums based on expenditures. This way the public and possibly policy makers would be forced to look at the truth of what is driving health care costs.
    I believe a rich society should be able to provide base line health care for its members, but the safety net we alredy have here in the U.S. is already incredibly generous and base line health care means just that, it doesn’t mean that every American, regardless of ability to pay, is going to get as much state of the art medical care as he or she desires…as nice as that would be, we can’t afford it.

  38. Neo says:

    “It’s Bush’s fault …
    The election is over.”

  39. Mike2Cents says:

    Anon -
    Sorry, what is this ‘base line’ health care?

  40. Anon says:

    Baseline health care that the government should provide/or subsidize:
    -prenatal care/pregnancy delivery care
    -injuries occuring from accidents [excluding most chronic pain of undiagnosible origin]
    -catastrophic illness–stroke, cancer, heart attack, care would be the basics, no experimental surgeries or drugs
    -psychological care for serious mental illness [psychosis, schizophrenia, major depression]
    -drugs needed to manage ongoing condition, again, generics, not novel expensive on patent drugs, e.g. the cheapest way to maintain a minimum level of care.

  41. Mike2Cents says:

    Anon -
    Not sure you’ll find many in these quarters that even support that.
    This is interesting -
    Seems to suggest that US is spending more while not offering universal care than the costs to nations that do. I suppose someone has another way to look at this detail, but pretty striking regardless.
    http://blogs.ngm.com/.a/6a00e0098226918833012876a6070f970c-800wi

  42. anon says:

    Oh Mike, everyone already knows that the U.S. spends more on helath care for less results than any other country, this is not news, we also spend more on education with lesser results than any other developed nation.
    The issue is what to do about it. To me, common sense would dictate that adding millions of people to a system where every sector–Medicare, Medicaid, private insurance–is total out of control from the cost side is INSANE. The idea is even more insane and preposterous when you add in that supporters of this idea claim that adding millions of people and additional mandates is going to cut costs and be budget neutral.
    I don’t know what the answer is, but I do know that the answer is NOT more federal controls that further limit choice and raise costs. That’s why I am in favor of smaller, incremental steps to see how different things work, because the truth is that there is no hurry on this becuase everyone can go to the ER and no on is being denied basic care.
    The other problem I have is that many of the benefits alleged by supporters of Obama’s plan simply don’t hold up when you look at the data. The data shows AT BEST a marginal improvement in health outcomes for people w/insurance vs. those who don’t have insurance, it does not show decreased costs for ER visits, it does not show major improvements in outcomes.
    Comparing the U.S. to France and Germany in terms of a delivery system is apples to oranges, this country is huge, the only countries that are really comparable are Russia, India and China. The infrastructure here is different than in Europe, the demographics are different, the urban vs. rural splits are different, the poverty and crime levels are different, immigration levels are different, ALL of this has to be taken into account.

  43. mark l. says:

    “psychological care for serious mental illness [psychosis, schizophrenia, major depression]”
    i’ve seen the frontlines of this…
    at minimum, 15% of people found in the average loony bin are there to acquire a mental health dx, for the purpose of recieving benefits, NOT becuause they are crazy, but because they don’t have a legit physical ailment. another 15% are drug seeking…klonopin, xanax, and valium.
    these people are on the govt dole, but report overdosing(ie. exceeding reccommended usage, or just selling the meds for money) and wind up in a hospital for 3 days of evalaution, which turns into months because group homes turn them down.
    the meds are largely a joke. some work, well…risperdal for the psychotic, lithium for the bi-polars. (lithium is a miracle drug, but works almost exclusively on the psychotic bipolars…2 days, they clear.)
    I watched a guy act like a fool-’madness of king george’ type stuff-for 2 months on zyprexa. a weekend doctor bailed him out by switching him back to lithium. his regular attending came in monday morning, had a 2 minute lucid conversation with the pt, and thought the zyprexa worked…
    we are largely paying for the equivalent of sugar pills, modestly better than placebos, by self-reports of improvement from mental pts.
    then they use the numbers to mainstream the drug into the population at large.
    (the one thing that really gives away the zyprexa kids, and adults…
    the appearance of a pot belly, but the postioning is directly below the ribcage, indicating a significantly swollen liver.)
    biggest scam ever.

  44. Live Free Or Die says:

    “I don’t count my time because I’m the President.”
    Possible responses: 1) “I’m Rick James Bitch!”
    2) “I am Dr. Amy Bishop!.”
    3) “I won’t count your time as President. Resident-in-Chief, maybe, but not as President.”
    4) “We’re counting your time; November 2012 can’t come soon enough.”

  45. Lightwave says:

    We’re forgetting the larger issue here:
    The Dems do not have 51 Senate votes for reconciliation.
    They don’t even have the 218 in the House to confirm the Senate bill.
    The Dems are bluffing. Republicans should be demanding every day that the Dems use the nuclear reconciliation option against the will of the American people, or they should scrap the bill completely. They should be calling them out for the spineless wimps they are. Dare them. Dare them to pass this. Dare them to face US in November.
    If Dems do this, the GOP controls the Senate in 2010. That is a 100% guarantee. The Dems know this.
    Therefore, they are bluffing. Call out this bluff daily. Embarrass them daily. Shame them daily.
    What’s the holdup, Mr. “I am the President”?
    You will not be President much longer. This and millions of other like me swear.

  46. Mike2Cents says:

    As has been pointed out exhaustively and clearly, reconciliation is not the ‘nuclear option’ – it is simply an often used legislative process (great vid of repub seantor Sununu making this point a few years ago…when repubs were using the tactic).
    It has been used by the repubs more than the dems, and has in fact been used to move through major legislation.
    I have to tip my hat to how successful this talking point has been for the repubs though…they got it out there and enough folks have taken it at face value.
    Maybe they can test these remarkable powers by seeing if they can suggest to their fellow Americans the false premise that premiums for the same level of coverage will go up with the current plan…
    Oh, right….nevermind.

  47. Anon says:

    Mike, I think the difference is that reconcilliation has never been used for this kind of msasively wide sweeping legislation, no major universal entitlement program has ever been passed like this, or has ever been passed on a strict party line vote. Never.
    Me, personally, I don’t think its false that premiums will go up, I think that they will go up or they will be taxed at a higher level which amounts to the same thing.

  48. Lightwave says:

    Hey Mike2Cents:
    Health care is a service, not a “right”. So is health insurance.
    Forcing me to bankrupt myself and my family in order to pay for those services for others is TYRANNY. It must be OPPOSED.
    There are indeed those who will oppose this. Bankrupting everyone to bring them down to the level of constant government dependency is how liberals enslave the population.
    But you’re apparently okay with that. Not me.

  49. wpe says:

    “reconcilliation has never been used for this kind of msasively wide sweeping legislation”
    The bill’s already passed the House and Senate. Reconciliation is simply to make some fairly minor modifications.
    And the Bush Tax Cuts, which added something like $2 trillion to our debt from 2001 to 2010 and helped trigger our economic meltdown, were passed via reconciliation.
    And the Health Care bill will CUT the deficit, rather than add trillions to the deficit, as the Bush Tax Cut reconciliation did.
    From the CBO
    The Congressional Budget Office has revised its estimate of the net budgetary impact—
    transmitted on November 6, 2009—of H.R. 3962, the Affordable Health Care for
    America Act. In that November 6 letter, CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on
    Taxation (JCT) estimated that changes in direct spending and revenues from enacting
    H.R. 3962 would yield a net reduction in federal budget deficits of $109 billion over the
    2010-2019 period. CBO and JCT now estimate that the legislation would yield a net
    reduction in deficits of $138 billion over the 10-year period, correcting a mistake that
    CBO made in its earlier assessment of the impact of section 2581 of the legislation,
    which would establish the Community Living Assistance Services and Supports
    (CLASS) program.

  50. mark l. says:

    “And the Bush Tax Cuts, which added something like $2 trillion to our debt from 2001 to 2010…”
    the projected amounts were for 660 billion, the amount was significantly smaller.
    considering the govt revenue that was produced, you are talking out of yor ass.
    I’ll find the cbo letter whcich credits 650 billion in revenue, a 35% increase, from 2006, for the tax of 2003.
    you could tell me that the cbo doesn’t know what it is talking about, but then the ‘independent group’ which supports the finanicing of the healthcare plan is diminshed.

  51. mark l. says:

    http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/81xx/doc8116/05-18-TaxRevenues.pdf
    “Growth in Federal Tax Revenues From 2003 to 2006
    Total federal revenues grew by about $625 billion, or 35 percent, between fiscal
    year 2003 and fiscal year 2006. CBO’s analysis of that increase in revenues since
    2003 is necessarily preliminary because relevant data are not yet fully available.
    CBO examined the available data using the commonly employed method of
    analyzing the sources of revenue growth as a percentage of GDP. Had revenues
    grown at the same rate as the overall economy between 2003 and 2006, federal
    receipts would have increased by only $373 billion. The other $252 billion of the
    actual increase in revenues represents growth in excess of GDP growth. As a
    result, receipts as a share of GDP rose from 16.5 percent in 2003 to 18.4 percent
    in 2006, an increase of 1.9 percentage points (see Table 1, attached).”
    .

  52. FatBaldnSassy says:

    While I will certainly agree that Obama’s arrogance worked against him, the dopey story that he told about his car getting rear-ended floored me. Dude just doesn’t get liability, collision, and third-party liability with respect to auto insurance. And he wants to take over medical insurance for the whole country? Rtwt:
    http://hotair.com/archives/2010/02/26/obamateurism-of-the-day-218/

  53. wpe says:

    “the projected amounts were for 660 billion, the amount was significantly smaller.
    considering the govt revenue that was produced, you are talking out of yor ass.”
    Depends on who’s counting. My guess is that’s $660 billion in wingnut dollars cause pretty much every other source puts it north of $1.5 trillion some over $2 trillion.
    “Newly revised estimates from Citizens for Tax Justice show that the Bush tax cuts cost almost $2.5 trillion over the decade after they were first enacted (2001-2010).”
    REAL Fiscal conservatives pay for what they buy.

  54. Shawn says:

    California Health Insurance Quote.

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  56. Geo says:

    If you had been paying attention, you might realize that at least one half of your argument is BS, although that would also require you to have the ability to reason. When Obama said that he hadn’t counted his time because he’s the President, it was in response to Mitch McConnell pointing out that “the Democrats” had had more time to speak than the Republicans. Of course, if Obama is giving the Republican senators/representatives 30 minutes, he’s going to give the same amount of time to the Democratic senators/representatives. And he would have his own allotment of time. So McConnell was (stupidly or lyingly) lumping Obama’s time with the time taken by the Democratic senators/representatives. Obviously, since Obama is not a senator or representative, his time should not come out of theirs. Thus he wasn’t counting his time as part of theirs, “because I’m the President” and NOT a senator/represenative. It was a perfectly justified, NON-ARROGANT statement. However, you are quite willing to sweep that inconvenient truth under the rug with all the other ones Republicans don’t like, like global warming, evolution, gravity, math, science, and reality.